I’m freaking out… covid

[mlktwins]

2 hours ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I've been sanitising groceries since the start,  and I still keep all deliveries in the garage for three days.

Who knows if it's helpful at all, but it's my routine now, and it makes me feel better. 

 

56 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I’m so glad I’m not the only one who is still doing these things!

I don’t know if it helps, either, but at least it makes me feel like there is something I can control.

We still do that here too!  
 

[Soror]

Thinking of your family.

[Innisfree]

Thinking of you here, too.

[Katy]

Fever was down by 2am. No one else has one. 

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I've been sanitising groceries since the start,  and I still keep all deliveries in the garage for three days.

Who knows if it's helpful at all, but it's my routine now, and it makes me feel better. 

6 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I’m so glad I’m not the only one who is still doing these things!

I don’t know if it helps, either, but at least it makes me feel like there is something I can control.

Knowing this makes me feel better about starting back up! I had stopped when we were down to 2% positivity, adults in the house (only ones reallly handling groceries much) were boosted, older kids vaccinated. But now with positivity over 36% (which is ridiculous!) and a lot of people I consider cautious getting it, and vaxxed people spreading it, I'll be back to spraying everything off! Thankfully I just found more peroxide in the garage and have some new spray bottles. 

For those on the fence, I will say that the only cases linked to this kind of thing that I know of involved refrigerated food - Covid lives a LONG tme at cold temperatures. And freezing does not kill it. So a compromise would be to not bother with any room temperature cardboard/paper stuff, spray/wipe all refrigerated smooth surfaces, and figure how long. until someone is going to touch say, a botle of olive oil that is smooth but room temperature. (smooth/nonporous surfaces it i more likley to transfer from)

(I don't isolate packages that took more than 48 hours to get here, I just wash my hands after touching the outside. The inside I figure is clean by then given time/temperature. BUT I live in Florida - so an un airconditioned mail truck/delivery truck is going to get pretty warm, and most days so is my porch/mailbox. )

[Katy]

And now youngest is at 99.2. I know you’re supposed to let the fever develop first but I gave her Motrin anyway. 

I almost wish I’d stuck with anecdotal “It’s not as bad as we thought it would be” in cardiac kids and not looked up actual studies last week. 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

And now youngest is at 99.2. I know you’re supposed to let the fever develop first but I gave her Motrin anyway. 

I almost wish I’d stuck with anecdotal “It’s not as bad as we thought it would be” in cardiac kids and not looked up actual studies last week. 

I think that's smart to stay on top of the fever.  Did the rapids come back negative?

Can you call the cardiologist and get advice on what to do if various things happen?  They might have solutions you haven't thought of, that might give you peace of mind.  For example, our pediatrician is doing curbside testing for her own patients.  I bet if DS's cardiologist called in a favor she'd test a kid not in her own practice, and it might set your mind at ease to know that you have a plan for that.  Cardiologist might also be able to tell you -- yes get a PCR because if she has it I have access to monoclonal antibodies, or the PCR isn't worth the risk because I wouldn't do anything different.  

[Acadie]

13 hours ago, whitestavern said:

Rapid tests aren’t picking up a lot of Omicron. I’d definitely get a PCR test. 

Posted this morning in the Omicron thread--our pediatrician recommends saliva + nasal swab with at-home rapid tests. PCR could be great if you can access it, but you can make your home rapid tests much more accurate with Omicron:

Our pediatrician sends research updates to support their Covid recommendations, and they're now recommending swabbing both saliva and nose for Omicron. In a South African study with Delta, the correlation between PCR and rapid saliva samples was 71%. But with Omicron, the correlation between PCR and rapid saliva samples was 100%.

Given the 3-day lag for a nasal rapid test to turn positive after PCR turns positive, they're recommending families rapid testing at home swab both saliva and nostrils to increase accuracy.  

Saliva and Nasal Swabs May Be the Preferred Testing Format for Identifying Omicron, While Nasal Swabs Continue to Be Best Approach for Detecting Delta:

1. As part of an ongoing study looking at the diagnostic performance of different sampling types, 382 symptomatic South African patients were tested with both PCR and rapid antigen tests (RAT) from August to December 2021 using saliva swabs and not nasal swabs. Click Here.
2. For saliva samples that were positive for the Delta variant, the correlation between PCR and RAT was 71%, similar to the percentage seen with the Beta variant. With samples that were positive for the Omicron variant, the correlation using the saliva test was 100%.
3. This fits with the recent FDA report that suggests that RATs are more sensitive in picking up Delta than Omicron. Click Here. 
4. This is valuable information particularly in light of a small study conducted on 30 individuals in 5 different workplaces who were tested daily with RAT during the Omicron surge. The study showed that it took an average of 3 days for a nasal RAT to turn positive after the PCR turned positive. In 4/30 cases, the virus was transmitted to others before the RAT turned positive. Click Here. If larger studies corroborate these results, it is clear that we have to find a better way to improve the sensitivity of RATs. 
5. Dr. Michael Mina, formerly Assistant Professor of Epidemiology, Immunology and Infectious Diseases at the Harvard School of Public Health and now the Chief Medical Officer at eMed, a RAT platform, has long been an advocate for the use of rapid antigen tests. He advocates testing both nose and throat for a rapid antigen test regardless of test instructions. Click Here. While this is not the official FDA position, there are enough mainstream immunologists recommending this approach that it is reasonable for our patients to test both nose and saliva with the same swab when testing with a RAT. PCRs and other molecular tests such as the Abbott ID NOW test performed in our office can be done with nasal swabs alone.

14 hours ago, KSera said:

You might consider swabbing throats as well. It’s not aligned with official instructions, but there are so many people getting their initial positives from the throat swab rather than the nasal that if I had enough tests, I would do so. There are directions online.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Acadie

[Katy]

Okay, even with throat swabs, the rapid tests are negative. All the kids have had at least a low grade fever, but back to normal with Motrin. Appetites seem normal. There’s a little coughing but in non-covid times I’d call this the sniffles and move on. I’ll keep watching just in case but my sense of panic is gone. 

I’m thinking we got a cold or mild flu virus from groceries or a delivery or mail or Amazon. I’m going back to sanitizing everything. Except idk how to sanitize strawberries without ruining them. @ktgrok what’s your process with peroxide?

Thank you everyone for the prayers. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate them. 

[ktgrok]

11 minutes ago, Katy said:

Okay, even with throat swabs, the rapid tests are negative. All the kids have had at least a low grade fever, but back to normal with Motrin. Appetites seem normal. There’s a little coughing but in non-covid times I’d call this the sniffles and move on. I’ll keep watching just in case but my sense of panic is gone. 

I’m thinking we got a cold or mild flu virus from groceries or a delivery or mail or Amazon. I’m going back to sanitizing everything. Except idk how to sanitize strawberries without ruining them. @ktgrok what’s your process with peroxide?

Thank you everyone for the prayers. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate them. 

I spray down anything non porous with peroxide in a dark spray bottle. I just add a spray top to the peroxide bottle. I then let it sit about 3-5 minutes and put everything away (wipe down if drippy wet). I do not sterilize produce, as my research showed that normal stomach acid concentrations should kill Covid, plus it doesn't live long on porous surfaces that are at room temp. So I just don't let the kids go around sticking produce up their nose for a day or so, lol. But seriously, I wash my produce as normal, buy in bags if possible so I can spray down the bag, and hope that it doesn't live long on the rest. 

I think say, containers of ice cream or juice are a higher risk - cold and smooth. Those all get sprayed with peroxide. 

[Catwoman]

47 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I spray down anything non porous with peroxide in a dark spray bottle. I just add a spray top to the peroxide bottle. I then let it sit about 3-5 minutes and put everything away (wipe down if drippy wet). I do not sterilize produce, as my research showed that normal stomach acid concentrations should kill Covid, plus it doesn't live long on porous surfaces that are at room temp. So I just don't let the kids go around sticking produce up their nose for a day or so, lol. But seriously, I wash my produce as normal, buy in bags if possible so I can spray down the bag, and hope that it doesn't live long on the rest. 

I think say, containers of ice cream or juice are a higher risk - cold and smooth. Those all get sprayed with peroxide. 

Things like milk bottles and juice cartons can be washed with soap and water in the kitchen sink. I used to spray everything or use Clorox Wipes, but I have found that with a lot of things, it's easier to just wash them in the sink and dry them off. I even do it with bagged frozen vegetables -- I use cold water so they don't thaw, but I use a lot of soap and rub the packages very well, and then I let them sit for a minute or so before I rinse them. 

I won't lie, though. Sometimes there's a little hole in a bag and things go horribly wrong... 😉

[dsmith]

Our state is offering free Vault testing. It's a saliva test and requires a zoom call. Maybe your state is offering them too? Otherwise I think they are $80 including shipping both ways. It does detect Omicron but it's taking a bit longer for results with the current situation.

[KungFuPanda]

I just watched a youtuber last night describe his omicron adventure with his girlfriend.  Girlfriend felt sick, they did rapid tests which came back negative a couple times.  Several tests later, the girlfriend is still sick and befevered and she eventually gets a test that pops positive.  He never gets a positive test and never gets sick.  He did wait about three weeks to post the video just to make sure he didn't catch it much later.  Soooo . . . you can be sick with Covid and still get a negative test result.  At this point I'd assume covid and be vigilant.

[Katy]

8 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I just watched a youtuber last night describe his omicron adventure with his girlfriend.  Girlfriend felt sick, they did rapid tests which came back negative a couple times.  Several tests later, the girlfriend is still sick and befevered and she eventually gets a test that pops positive.  He never gets a positive test and never gets sick.  He did wait about three weeks to post the video just to make sure he didn't catch it much later.  Soooo . . . you can be sick with Covid and still get a negative test result.  At this point I'd assume covid and be vigilant.

Yeah, that’s exactly what we’re doing. 

[Drama Llama]

3 hours ago, Katy said:

. Except idk how to sanitize strawberries without ruining them.

We took a lot of food precautions when my son was so immunocompromised. I'm really not sure that they are needed for covid, but I'm sure that they would take care of covid, but we started them long before covid due to concerns about food bourne illness. 

For fruits and vegetables, I think of them as in two categories:

Scrubbable:  This is mostly things that I'm going to remove a peel or rind.  I scrub all these things under running water with a clean scrubby sponge (run through the dishwasher or microwave), including the outside of things like bananas, melons, etc . . . that we aren't going to eat.

Delicate:  Things like berries or grapes, or things like broccoli or asparagus that have textures with nooks and crannies.  I soak them for 15 minutes in a solution of 4 cups water to 1 cup white vinegar, then rinse well under running water.  

For things that are frozen or canned, I assume that the processing took care of it. Even with precautions DS didn't eat any raw leafy greens, so I don't know whether soaking them would work.  

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

We took a lot of food precautions when my son was so immunocompromised. I'm really not sure that they are needed for covid, but I'm sure that they would take care of covid, but we started them long before covid due to concerns about food bourne illness. 

For fruits and vegetables, I think of them as in two categories:

Scrubbable:  This is mostly things that I'm going to remove a peel or rind.  I scrub all these things under running water with a clean scrubby sponge (run through the dishwasher or microwave), including the outside of things like bananas, melons, etc . . . that we aren't going to eat.

Delicate:  Things like berries or grapes, or things like broccoli or asparagus that have textures with nooks and crannies.  I soak them for 15 minutes in a solution of 4 cups water to 1 cup white vinegar, then rinse well under running water.  

For things that are frozen or canned, I assume that the processing took care of it. Even with precautions DS didn't eat any raw leafy greens, so I don't know whether soaking them would work.  

This is what we have done for the past decade or so.  For lettuces, we chop the ends of the head, separate the leaves, do the vinegar soak, rinse in cold water, then wrap in paper towels and place in the fridge to re-crisp.  If you put the papertowels into a gallon sized ziplock they will stay nice for 2-3 days.  Don't handle the berries and lettuce until day of consumption, though. We have a "clean fridge" and a "dirty fridge" since we go through lots of produce with our family size and only order in groceries once a week.  The dirty fridge holds produce we haven't yet washed.  Once you strip the wax off of the apples and clementines, they just don't last as long. 

[Katy]

10 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

This is what we have done for the past decade or so.  For lettuces, we chop the ends of the head, separate the leaves, do the vinegar soak, rinse in cold water, then wrap in paper towels and place in the fridge to re-crisp.  If you put the papertowels into a gallon sized ziplock they will stay nice for 2-3 days.  Don't handle the berries and lettuce until day of consumption, though. We have a "clean fridge" and a "dirty fridge" since we go through lots of produce with our family size and only order in groceries once a week.  The dirty fridge holds produce we haven't yet washed.  Once you strip the wax off of the apples and clementines, they just don't last as long. 

Really? I’ve found soaking produce in a solution of a tablespoon of bleach per gallon of water for ten minutes then in plain water for ten minutes makes everything last longer but strawberries are ruined by bleach. They taste like pool water afterwards, no matter how much they are rinsed. Lately all our clementines come home from the store rotten though.

[Drama Llama]

38 minutes ago, Katy said:

Really? I’ve found soaking produce in a solution of a tablespoon of bleach per gallon of water for ten minutes then in plain water for ten minutes makes everything last longer but strawberries are ruined by bleach. They taste like pool water afterwards, no matter how much they are rinsed. Lately all our clementines come home from the store rotten though.

Try the vinegar, I rinse really well with lots of running water and it seems ok.

I also think that if you are just trying to avoid covid (and not so much other things that immunocompromised people worry about), then it clearly doesn’t survive very long on the surface of something like a strawberry.  I would be comfortable transferring to my own container and then just not eating in the first 24 hours.  

 

[Catwoman]

16 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Try the vinegar, I rinse really well with lots of running water and it seems ok.

I also think that if you are just trying to avoid covid (and not so much other things that immunocompromised people worry about), then it clearly doesn’t survive very long on the surface of something like a strawberry.  I would be comfortable transferring to my own container and then just not eating in the first 24 hours.  

 

My concern is that the virus is said to live longer in colder temperatures -- like the refrigerator or freezer -- so unless you were leaving the strawberries out on the counter, I wouldn't count on the virus being dead within 24 hours.

[Katy]

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

My concern is that the virus is said to live longer in colder temperatures -- like the refrigerator or freezer -- so unless you were leaving the strawberries out on the counter, I wouldn't count on the virus being dead within 24 hours.

Yeah, but Covid specifically is really easy to kill with any acid. If vinegar works I’ll do it. Vinegar wouldn’t kill something like norovirus, but idk that strawberries are commonly contaminated with them anyway. 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

Yeah, but Covid specifically is really easy to kill with any acid. If vinegar works I’ll do it. Vinegar wouldn’t kill something like norovirus, but idk that strawberries are commonly contaminated with them anyway. 

My understanding is that vinegar does not kill Covid. (At least that was what they were saying early in the pandemic — that information may have changed by now.)

Edited January 13, 2022 by Catwoman

[Katy]

30 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

My understanding is that vinegar does not kill Covid. (At least that was what they were saying early in the pandemic — that information may have changed by now.)

I can't seem to find the study, but I did see one maybe a year ago that said Covid-19 dies so easily household vinegar IS effective against it. As is doing nothing for a few hours assuming you're not in a cold temperature. But a quick google finds that some morons were recommending gargling vinegar as a cure once you already have the virus... giving yourself a chemical burn in your throat to kill a virus is a really bad idea.  Plus vinegar isn't regulated the way many disinfectants are, so using something homemade or crunchy spray from a health food store is probably a really bad idea.  But vinegar SHOULD work if used properly and it is fairly safe as long as you aren't stupid.

As an aside, it's common in many nursing applications to use vinegar to cleanse things, especially tubes and drains of body fluids.  If someone with a catheter keeps getting UTI's there's a whole process you're taught to clean the bag with vinegar. Or at least I was back in the day.  I always wondered why they weren't disposable in long term situations... so that may have changed.

In nursing school I worked as a hospital tech/CNA and part of my job was to sterilize surgical equipment. Mostly for ENT surgeries. Even there, there were a series of different chemicals that we soaked certain hoses in for a certain number of minutes, and vinegar was one of the three things used.  Of course the vinegar used in a hospital setting probably IS more regulated than say, the stuff you find next to the salad dressing. But the idea that it's not used in hospital and medical settings as ONE part of a process is false.

[Dianthus]

@Katy I can't read the whole thread. Was your child positive?

[Katy]

Just now, Spirea said:

@Katy I can't read the whole thread. Was your child positive?

Whole family is sick, no one is positive, even with a throat swab. Haven't needed to give fever medicines since 8am though, even to the two that are too young to be vaccinated.  So we're acting like it's covid and thinking it's possible it's just a cold or mild flu of some sort. Mostly because apparently the rapid tests have a high degree of false negatives.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

I can't seem to find the study, but I did see one maybe a year ago that said Covid-19 dies so easily household vinegar IS effective against it. As is doing nothing for a few hours assuming you're not in a cold temperature. But a quick google finds that some morons were recommending gargling vinegar as a cure once you already have the virus... giving yourself a chemical burn in your throat to kill a virus is a really bad idea.  Plus vinegar isn't regulated the way many disinfectants are, so using something homemade or crunchy spray from a health food store is probably a really bad idea.  But vinegar SHOULD work if used properly and it is fairly safe as long as you aren't stupid.

As an aside, it's common in many nursing applications to use vinegar to cleanse things, especially tubes and drains of body fluids.  If someone with a catheter keeps getting UTI's there's a whole process you're taught to clean the bag with vinegar. Or at least I was back in the day.  I always wondered why they weren't disposable in long term situations... so that may have changed.

In nursing school I worked as a hospital tech/CNA and part of my job was to sterilize surgical equipment. Mostly for ENT surgeries. Even there, there were a series of different chemicals that we soaked certain hoses in for a certain number of minutes, and vinegar was one of the three things used.  Of course the vinegar used in a hospital setting probably IS more regulated than say, the stuff you find next to the salad dressing. But the idea that it's not used in hospital and medical settings as ONE part of a process is false.

I don’t think anyone has said that vinegar isn’t used in hospitals — I know it is, and if I’m not mistaken, it’s a little stronger than regular vinegar (but is still available in stores, so anyone can buy it.) I know vinegar is good for cleaning many things, but I just looked it up to see if I could find any new information, and everything I read still says that vinegar is not an effective way to kill Covid. 

I use vinegar all the time around the house, but I’m not willing to assume it will work against Covid when there are so many other effective and proven options available. It would be great if someone could find a study that proves that it will kill the virus, but until I see proof, I’m not taking any chances. I don’t want to find out the hard way that it doesn’t work! 🙂 

 

[Mom_to3]

Hopefully. whatever it is, you are all over the worst. It is kind of scary that you picked up some illness in spite of your precautions, though!! Maybe fomites indeed ... Here's a little study for hamsters and covid. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-hamster-study-evaluates-airborne-fomite-transmission-sars-cov-2

[Drama Llama]

4 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I don’t think anyone has said that vinegar isn’t used in hospitals — I know it is, and if I’m not mistaken, it’s a little stronger than regular vinegar (but is still available in stores, so anyone can buy it.) I know vinegar is good for cleaning many things, but I just looked it up to see if I could find any new information, and everything I read still says that vinegar is not an effective way to kill Covid. 

I use vinegar all the time around the house, but I’m not willing to assume it will work against Covid when there are so many other effective and proven options available. It would be great if someone could find a study that proves that it will kill the virus, but until I see proof, I’m not taking any chances. I don’t want to find out the hard way that it doesn’t work! 🙂 

 

What are effective food safe options? 

I agree 100% that there are safer options for surfaces.  But the question was specifically about strawberries.  

[Catwoman]

3 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

What are effective food safe options? 

I agree 100% that there are safer options for surfaces.  But the question was specifically about strawberries.  

Yes, I know it was about the strawberries, but Katy had branched out into talking about surfaces, so that’s why I wanted to be sure to mention that I hadn’t been able to find any studies that show that vinegar kills Covid.

I have looked for food safe options, but I’m not having any luck finding anything. Most of what I read says that cooking food to 165 degrees will kill Covid, but that’s not very helpful for the strawberries! 😉 I hope someone else has some info, though, because I would like to know, too!  

[Catwoman]

7 hours ago, Mom_to3 said:

Hopefully. whatever it is, you are all over the worst. It is kind of scary that you picked up some illness in spite of your precautions, though!! Maybe fomites indeed ... Here's a little study for hamsters and covid. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-hamster-study-evaluates-airborne-fomite-transmission-sars-cov-2

That was very interesting — thank you for posting it!  🙂 

[prairiewindmomma]

15 hours ago, Katy said:

Really? I’ve found soaking produce in a solution of a tablespoon of bleach per gallon of water for ten minutes then in plain water for ten minutes makes everything last longer but strawberries are ruined by bleach. They taste like pool water afterwards, no matter how much they are rinsed. Lately all our clementines come home from the store rotten though.

There’s no way I would put bleach on my produce (aside from hard rinsable produce in a country where produce requires this). 
 

With soft produce, some residue is going to remain, even after thorough rinsing. Vinegar is food grade, no problem. 

YMMV…these are just the recommendations we got from the neuro-onc back when they used to not let kids with cancer have berries at all—and were just starting to. 

[Katy]

23 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

There’s no way I would put bleach on my produce (aside from hard rinsable produce in a country where produce requires this). 
 

With soft produce, some residue is going to remain, even after thorough rinsing. Vinegar is food grade, no problem. 

YMMV…these are just the recommendations we got from the neuro-onc back when they used to not let kids with cancer have berries at all—and were just starting to. 

If you’ve ever bought “washed, ready to eat” produce it was likely already rinsed in very dilute bleach then water. Here’s a fact sheet on details: 

https://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk7366/files/inline-files/26437.pdf

 

[mathnerd]

34 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

There’s no way I would put bleach on my produce (aside from hard rinsable produce in a country where produce requires this). 
 

With soft produce, some residue is going to remain, even after thorough rinsing. Vinegar is food grade, no problem. 

YMMV…these are just the recommendations we got from the neuro-onc back when they used to not let kids with cancer have berries at all—and were just starting to. 

I avoid prepackaged prewashed produce because of the bleach (I even don’t eat baby carrots because of that). As for Covid precautions, I am still wiping down packages with Lysol wipes and quarantining shelf stable stuff indoors.

for soft produce - I soak in a solution of water + vinegar + salt  for 20 minutes and rinse under cold water. I read during the first waves that this can kill all kinds of coronavirus and it has become my habit.

[prairiewindmomma]

19 minutes ago, Katy said:

If you’ve ever bought “washed, ready to eat” produce it was likely already rinsed in very dilute bleach then water. Here’s a fact sheet on details: 

https://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk7366/files/inline-files/26437.pdf

 

I don’t, actually, nor do I ever buy precut produce at the grocery.  My husband and sons like prebagged salads, which are washed/ready to eat but I am the one on immunosuppressants and there are way too many recalls on fresh greens every year to risk it (listeria or E. coli usually).
 

[Acadie]

11 hours ago, Katy said:

Whole family is sick, no one is positive, even with a throat swab. Haven't needed to give fever medicines since 8am though, even to the two that are too young to be vaccinated.  So we're acting like it's covid and thinking it's possible it's just a cold or mild flu of some sort. Mostly because apparently the rapid tests have a high degree of false negatives.

Hoping you all feel better soon and it stays mild for everyone.

FWIW dd15's rapid testing looked like this:

Day 1: Mild sore throat, throat+nasal swab negative

Day 2: Sore throat and headache, throat+nasal swab faint positive

Day 6: Feeling better, nasal swab dark positive (note to CDC--definite dark positive on day 6!)

Day 9: Symptoms resolved, nasal swab negative

(After I did the first two throat swabs to diagnose she just did her own nasal swabs in her room on days 6 & 9)

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

There’s no way I would put bleach on my produce (aside from hard rinsable produce in a country where produce requires this). 
 

With soft produce, some residue is going to remain, even after thorough rinsing. Vinegar is food grade, no problem. 

YMMV…these are just the recommendations we got from the neuro-onc back when they used to not let kids with cancer have berries at all—and were just starting to. 

Bleach is safe to use to sanitize drinking water. That said, some bleach now seems to have scents and who knows what in it. But small amounts would not be toxic. 

[Katy]

24 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Bleach is safe to use to sanitize drinking water. That said, some bleach now seems to have scents and who knows what in it. But small amounts would not be toxic. 

I think they might be toxic, but IME any bleach you can buy has the "ingredients" listed.  You definitely want to avoid scents and thickeners.

[Katy]

2 hours ago, Acadie said:

Hoping you all feel better soon and it stays mild for everyone.

FWIW dd15's rapid testing looked like this:

Day 1: Mild sore throat, throat+nasal swab negative

Day 2: Sore throat and headache, throat+nasal swab faint positive

Day 6: Feeling better, nasal swab dark positive (note to CDC--definite dark positive on day 6!)

Day 9: Symptoms resolved, nasal swab negative

(After I did the first two throat swabs to diagnose she just did her own nasal swabs in her room on days 6 & 9)

Thanks.  So far no more fevers.  DH is coughing a bit, and the kids intermittently.  I'll definitely re-test some of us Sunday or Monday.

[prairiewindmomma]

34 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Bleach is safe to use to sanitize drinking water. That said, some bleach now seems to have scents and who knows what in it. But small amounts would not be toxic. 

My specific objection is to berries and other soft fruits because they *ABSORB* the bleach water. It's not rinsed away like when you scrub hard peeled vegetables.

Look, even commercially, when those berries are going through berry washing machines before processing (and yes, that's a thing) they are typically using reverse osmosis water and ozone for cleaning before they go through the dryer process. They aren't putting diluted bleach water on berries because they can't rinse cleanly because of shape and because they will absorb whatever they are soaked in. 

 

[ktgrok]

21 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

My specific objection is to berries and other soft fruits because they *ABSORB* the bleach water. It's not rinsed away like when you scrub hard peeled vegetables.

Look, even commercially, when those berries are going through berry washing machines before processing (and yes, that's a thing) they are typically using reverse osmosis water and ozone for cleaning before they go through the dryer process. They aren't putting diluted bleach water on berries because they can't rinse cleanly because of shape and because they will absorb whatever they are soaked in. 

 

Oh yeah, I mean, it wouldn't taste good depending on the concentration. But you can drink bleach water at the right dilution, so if some bleach water got absorbed by the berries, it still won't hurt you. Won't taste good though. 

Household bleach just isn't toxic like that - it's caustic, but not toxic. the issues are skin or lung or eye irritation not toxicity. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by ktgrok

[Drama Llama]

6 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, I know it was about the strawberries, but Katy had branched out into talking about surfaces, so that’s why I wanted to be sure to mention that I hadn’t been able to find any studies that show that vinegar kills Covid.

I have looked for food safe options, but I’m not having any luck finding anything. Most of what I read says that cooking food to 165 degrees will kill Covid, but that’s not very helpful for the strawberries! 😉 I hope someone else has some info, though, because I would like to know, too!  

Everything I read says that they haven't tested vinegar, so they don't know if works.  For surfaces there are other options that have been tested, and I'd use one of those.  When vinegar is used for medical reasons, usually on things that are in contact with mucus membranes like nebulizer parts, they suggest a long soak, not spraying and wiping things down, and even for that, they've moved away from the vinegar recommendation for people who are immunocompromised, due to the number of resistant bacteria.   We used a combination of heat/pressure "sterilization" (in quotes because no process at home is really sterile), alcohol, and a substance called "control III" for respiratory stuff like ventilator tubing, and nebulizer parts. 

But for strawberries, those options don't work.  I feel like the risk of covid getting into a clamshell, either during the picking and packaging process, or at the store because someone opened the package and touched them, and then surviving during transit to your house and storage in your house, and then ending up in your respiratory tract, as opposed to your digestive tract where it will be destroyed by stomach acid, is very low.  Since I wouldn't eat berries that tasted of bleach (even though I agree they aren't toxic), I was comfortable with a 15 minute soak in vinegar water, and a thorough rinsing.  

[lauraw4321]

Any update? 

[Katy]

The important part is DD3 has no cardiac symptoms. So that’s good. 

We’re all the sort of just-barely sick that leaves us tired & crabby but in pre-covid times I’d call “a bug” snd forget about it. Everyone has had low grade fevers, coughs, sneezes, & runny noses again. Motrin seems to keep fevers away and energy better maybe 8-12 hours.

DH & I were just discussing taking rapid tests again, but I hesitate because we only have two boxes left.

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

The important part is DD3 has no cardiac symptoms. So that’s good. 
 

I am so glad.  

[Grace Hopper]

On 1/13/2022 at 10:04 AM, mathnerd said:

I avoid prepackaged prewashed produce because of the bleach (I even don’t eat baby carrots because of that). As for Covid precautions, I am still wiping down packages with Lysol wipes and quarantining shelf stable stuff indoors.

for soft produce - I soak in a solution of water + vinegar + salt  for 20 minutes and rinse under cold water. I read during the first waves that this can kill all kinds of coronavirus and it has become my habit.

I remember my mom used to always soak lettuce in cold salted water for about 20 minutes before rinsing and tearing the leaves. I’d forgotten the salt. I soak greens in apple cider vinegar. Hard rinds get scrubbed. 

[Katy]

I took another rapid test, it’s negative. This must be flu or something like it. Thank you everyone for your prayers.