Omicron anecdata?

[popmom]

I just found out that my 70 year old brother in law has had COVID for over a week. He was really miserable. He says he’s doing better, but gets tired out very easily. He did a load of laundry today. He said he felt like he had run 10 miles afterward. 😞 

He has been to the doctor twice. He has tested positive twice. He’s supposed to go back Wednesday for another follow up and another PCR test. 
 

He has not been able to lie flat because he coughs non stop. He couldn’t even sleep in the recliner. Last night was the first full night of sleep he’s had since it started. He lost his sense of smell, too.

I’m really glad he’ll be following up with the doctor on Wednesday. His son has been checking on him, but I’m worried about him. He’s pretty healthy, but this has really hit him hard. He’s vaccinated and has had two boosters. I didn’t ask how long it had been since his last booster. 

@Corraleno that sounds miserable, but I agree with your approach regarding the fever. I hope this passes quickly for you. I’m pretty sure I would have broken down and taken Tylenol by now.

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by popmom

[mommyoffive]

‘We still don’t know it’s over’: will Covid surge after US ends emergency? (msn.com)

[kokotg]

When it rains it pours. DH had covid two weeks ago for the first time, despite teaching in person throughout the pandemic. We're nearly certain he caught it from my 10 year old, even though the 10 year old never tested positive. Very similar symptoms a few days apart. 10 year old was sick for a day with a sore throat and (mostly) very tired. Low fever. DH had the same fatigue, fever right at 100, sore throat, but his lasted around 3 days with some lingering fatigue after. It's weird because 1. 10 year old has less exposure than anyone in the family (tied with me, I guess). He does a couple small classes at the masks required homeschool co-op....a couple of other small group inside things always masked, and that's it. He's our most cautious family member--we went to Nashville a few days before he got sick, but didn't even eat inside anywhere because he insisted we huddle outside in the cold instead. So no idea how he picked it up. and 2. 17 year old DS and I didn't get it, even though DH initially tested negative and we all spent the first day and a half that he was symptomatic hanging out with him, including DS spending a couple of hours in the car with him. 

So DS17 and I are now the last ones standing in the family, as DS19 just sent me a picture of HIS positive test. He's in college in another state, so not our fault! This is his second semester of college, and he's a clarinet performance major (i.e. lots of stuff he can't do masked), so it's sort of amazing he made it this far. So far just a sore throat for him. 

Timing seems a little weird for people to be getting it for the first time so close together but not from each other...but I did read a few weeks ago that THIS is the wave that's going to get most people who've made it this far. 

[Ausmumof3]

21 minutes ago, kokotg said:

When it rains it pours. DH had covid two weeks ago for the first time, despite teaching in person throughout the pandemic. We're nearly certain he caught it from my 10 year old, even though the 10 year old never tested positive. Very similar symptoms a few days apart. 10 year old was sick for a day with a sore throat and (mostly) very tired. Low fever. DH had the same fatigue, fever right at 100, sore throat, but his lasted around 3 days with some lingering fatigue after. It's weird because 1. 10 year old has less exposure than anyone in the family (tied with me, I guess). He does a couple small classes at the masks required homeschool co-op....a couple of other small group inside things always masked, and that's it. He's our most cautious family member--we went to Nashville a few days before he got sick, but didn't even eat inside anywhere because he insisted we huddle outside in the cold instead. So no idea how he picked it up. and 2. 17 year old DS and I didn't get it, even though DH initially tested negative and we all spent the first day and a half that he was symptomatic hanging out with him, including DS spending a couple of hours in the car with him. 

So DS17 and I are now the last ones standing in the family, as DS19 just sent me a picture of HIS positive test. He's in college in another state, so not our fault! This is his second semester of college, and he's a clarinet performance major (i.e. lots of stuff he can't do masked), so it's sort of amazing he made it this far. So far just a sore throat for him. 

Timing seems a little weird for people to be getting it for the first time so close together but not from each other...but I did read a few weeks ago that THIS is the wave that's going to get most people who've made it this far. 

I think it’s kind of more logical than it sounds. I know for us although we’re still cautious we’re becoming less cautious because it feels less sustainable with no end in sight. I’m more likely to use a mask for longer without rotating properly, more likely to duck in to pay for fuel or something without masking. It’s just impossible to keep such a high level of vigilance for ever.  
 

on top of that, we have way less reliable information about who has covid because many people don’t bother testing after they’ve had it once. Case load is probably much higher than data would suggest.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Ausmumof3

[kokotg]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think it’s kind of more logical than it sounds. I know for us although we’re still cautious we’re becoming less cautious because it feels less sustainable with no end in sight. I’m more likely to use a mask for longer without rotating properly, more likely to duck in to pay for fuel or something without masking. It’s just impossible to keep such a high level of vigilance for ever. 

I agree, but I'm still surprised that in this case we really couldn't trace it to any particular lapses in caution--if the original case had been anyone else in the family it would have made more sense, but my youngest is really just unfailingly careful. I feel like it must be that the current strains are, indeed, more transmissible. I mean, that's what I've read to be true as well. But then that doesn't mesh with how half of the people in our household didn't get it. So...covid is weird, I guess, is what it comes back to. 

[KSera]

25 minutes ago, kokotg said:

my youngest is really just unfailingly careful. I feel like it must be that the current strains are, indeed, more transmissible.

How old is your youngest again? I can’t recall if he’s young enough that there aren’t N95s that fit. I definitely feel like my kids who rely on KF94s are the most vulnerable link for us because the ear loop masks just don’t seal as tightly as N95s with head straps the rest of us wear. They fit my kids really nicely, but with as transmissible as they’re saying this variant is, I’m definitely feeling the increased risk. I had to go to an appointment today and sit in a room full of people with someone on the other side of the room coughing for an hour. I was wearing an N95, but I was wishing it was a different one. The nose wire felt a little overused. 
 

I’m sorry it’s gotten to your family and hope you and DS17 stay healthy. It’s unnerving how many people are getting it for the first time now 😢. 

[Ausmumof3]

27 minutes ago, KSera said:

How old is your youngest again? I can’t recall if he’s young enough that there aren’t N95s that fit. I definitely feel like my kids who rely on KF94s are the most vulnerable link for us because the ear loop masks just don’t seal as tightly as N95s with head straps the rest of us wear. They fit my kids really nicely, but with as transmissible as they’re saying this variant is, I’m definitely feeling the increased risk. I had to go to an appointment today and sit in a room full of people with someone on the other side of the room coughing for an hour. I was wearing an N95, but I was wishing it was a different one. The nose wire felt a little overused. 
 

I’m sorry it’s gotten to your family and hope you and DS17 stay healthy. It’s unnerving how many people are getting it for the first time now 😢. 

We use ear saver clips and they work great 

[mommyoffive]

I think also it is that hardly anyone around us is taking precautions anymore.  At dance it is masks optional.  Only have to wear one if you are sick or if you come back from having Covid.  For my 4 older kids, nobody else in their class wears a mask unless they are sick ever.  My youngest had half the kids in her class masking until a monthish ago.  Now maybe one other kid does.

Nature school has a few other kids masking, but again not the majority.  People on the whole are not masking anymore.  In our area you don't see masks.  Haven't in a long time. 

I am actually having internal dialog with myself about what I am going to do with masking for my kids. How much longer can I make them be the only person in a class masking?  It is hard.

Edited February 7, 2023 by mommyoffive

[kokotg]

33 minutes ago, KSera said:

How old is your youngest again? I can’t recall if he’s young enough that there aren’t N95s that fit. I definitely feel like my kids who rely on KF94s are the most vulnerable link for us because the ear loop masks just don’t seal as tightly as N95s with head straps the rest of us wear. They fit my kids really nicely, but with as transmissible as they’re saying this variant is, I’m definitely feeling the increased risk. I had to go to an appointment today and sit in a room full of people with someone on the other side of the room coughing for an hour. I was wearing an N95, but I was wishing it was a different one. The nose wire felt a little overused. 
 

I’m sorry it’s gotten to your family and hope you and DS17 stay healthy. It’s unnerving how many people are getting it for the first time now 😢. 

He's 10, and he wears the powecom kid-sized kn95s from bonafide. But he's also just not in high risk settings very often, relatively speaking. The homeschool co-op requires high quality masks and vaccines for everyone, and he's only in 2 classes right now, with a total of maybe 6 other kids. Then he has piano lessons with just his piano teacher, and he wears a mask. Then a Spanish class with 3 other kids, which is outside when it's warm enough, and he wears a mask when they're inside. Park days outside. We have done very occasional inside restaurants, but none in the window when he could have been exposed. I mean, it's not unbelievable that he got it or anything...it just seems like anything he did in the right window is stuff where he wouldn't have gotten it in earlier waves. We're definitely not the most cautious people in the world, but we're fairly cautious, and he's the most cautious of us. The stuff that worked for 3 years didn't work this time...which could be luck running out or could be something about current variants. Anyway--I always assumed it would catch up with us sooner or later (and that later (and less frequently) is better than sooner). Thankful that it seems to be have been pretty mild (and that luck is holding out for 2 of us anyway. for now. knock wood and all that). 

[KSera]

18 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

We use ear saver clips and they work great 

Which ones do you use? Before I switched to N95, I had a couple ear savers that worked well for me, but I have yet to find one that works well for my 5yo. They slip down. 

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, KSera said:

Which ones do you use? Before I switched to N95, I had a couple ear savers that worked well for me, but I have yet to find one that works well for my 5yo. They slip down. 

https://www.detmoldmedical.com/detmed/resources/videos/
 

they are like the ones in this video. We use them with a child size n95 equivalent from vida. My youngest is 10 though but very small for 10 (the masks actually fit our friends 7yo better than they did him!)

[mommyoffive]

What ending the emergency actually means (substack.com)

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

What ending the emergency actually means (substack.com)

That's a really excellent summary of the current state of affairs.

Katelyn Jetelina has been one of the true heroes of the pandemic, IMO — in a sea of disinformation, her updates have been unfailingly accurate, helpful, and informative. 

[Ausmumof3]

I know this is not covid related and can be in its own thread but I’m wondering what peoples thoughts are in bird flu? Seeing that the lion in Perus zoo died of it and the spillover into seals etc is increasing my worry. We have a lot of outdoor chooks as well as birds indoors. No cases that i know of in Aus to this point. I’m wondering if at some point we might have to consider giving up the chooks. I’d fight tooth and nail to avoid losing our indoor birds 😞 

[kbutton]

On 2/6/2023 at 9:28 PM, popmom said:

 

He has not been able to lie flat because he coughs non stop. He couldn’t even sleep in the recliner. 

 

It’s good that this is improving.

Coughing/breathing issues when lying down (when not due to congestion) can be a symptom of pulmonary emboli, depending on where the clots have lodged. That was one of my son’s major symptoms (not due to Covid in his case).

Just FYI.

[popmom]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I know this is not covid related and can be in its own thread but I’m wondering what peoples thoughts are in bird flu? Seeing that the lion in Perus zoo died of it and the spillover into seals etc is increasing my worry. We have a lot of outdoor chooks as well as birds indoors. No cases that i know of in Aus to this point. I’m wondering if at some point we might have to consider giving up the chooks. I’d fight tooth and nail to avoid losing our indoor birds 😞 

I'm trying to stay on top of it. It's worrisome. I recently read of mammal to mammal transmission on a mink farm in Spain where they eventually had to cull over 50,000 animals. 😞

[popmom]

3 hours ago, kbutton said:

It’s good that this is improving.

Coughing/breathing issues when lying down (when not due to congestion) can be a symptom of pulmonary emboli, depending on where the clots have lodged. That was one of my son’s major symptoms (not due to Covid in his case).

Just FYI.

I am thankful that you shared that. That definitely wouldn't have been on my radar. 

This is actually what happens to me when I have an really bad exacerbation of my asthma, so that is all I could think of--that maybe he needed a corticosteroid. Filing your experience away for future reference.

Edited February 8, 2023 by popmom

[Mom_to3]

5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I know this is not covid related and can be in its own thread but I’m wondering what peoples thoughts are in bird flu? Seeing that the lion in Perus zoo died of it and the spillover into seals etc is increasing my worry. We have a lot of outdoor chooks as well as birds indoors. No cases that i know of in Aus to this point. I’m wondering if at some point we might have to consider giving up the chooks. I’d fight tooth and nail to avoid losing our indoor birds 😞 

I would worry more about that if/when it spreads to humans in more than isolated incidents, it will spread h to h across the world quite quickly. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Mom_to3 said:

I would worry more about that if/when it spreads to humans in more than isolated incidents, it will spread h to h across the world quite quickly. 

Yeah definitely. But in that case it would be an out of my hands/public health issue anyway. It’s more of a - is it going to be a safety issue for us? The number of mammal spillovers seems bad 

[kbutton]

11 hours ago, popmom said:

I am thankful that you shared that. That definitely wouldn't have been on my radar. 

This is actually what happens to me when I have a really bad exacerbation of my asthma, so that is all I could think of--that maybe he needed a corticosteroid. Filing your experience away for future reference.

Yeah, my son had multiple asthma-like symptoms with his too. It’s hard because lots of different coughing and shortness of breath stuff are similar on the face of things.

Blood clots of every kind require a “high degree of suspicion” as they say in order to get the right work up. 

[Mom_to3]

11 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yeah definitely. But in that case it would be an out of my hands/public health issue anyway. It’s more of a - is it going to be a safety issue for us? The number of mammal spillovers seems bad 

My thinking is that as of right now there are few spillovers into humans (and I think no bird flu yet in Australia!) - so the risk at the moment for your family is tiny. By the time there are more than isolated spillovers to humans and your flock would be a real risk to your family, we are at a high of risk of a h-h pandemic anyway. I am actually quite concerned about the situation, especially as our governments don't seem to be doing much more than watching the situation).

See https://www.statnews.com/2023/02/08/tracking-the-bird-flu-experts-see-a-familiar-threat-and-a-virus-whose-course-is-hard-to-predict/

The quotes at the end are especially concerning (that the experts believe that there is an unwillingness to do anything regarding another pandemic threat after covid). 

[mommyoffive]

CDC adds Covid-19 shots to list of routine vaccines for kids and adults (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

Ending the federal COVID emergency was inevitable — but it will cause additional deaths (msn.com)

[KSera]

Discovery of a protein in the lungs that blocks SARS-Cov2 from attaching. This one has some exciting potential for therapies:

Scientists discover receptor that blocks COVID-19 infection

 

 

[mommyoffive]

People’s CDC COVID-19 Weather Report - People's CDC (substack.com)

The Weather: Transmission levels stay stubbornly high, with 94.4% living in areas with substantial or higher transmission. Rates are higher generally in the South, parts of the Midwest and the East Coast, with lower levels seen in the West.

 

 

On Variants: The increase in Kraken (XBB1.5) cases continues to rise – 74.7% of cases this week, in comparison to 66.4% last week. The instances of BQ variant cases continue to decrease.

Wastewater Monitoring: There are slight increases in wastewater levels in the Midwestern and Southern regions, but nationally levels continue to be leveling off. However, the numbers are all still high, showing that the risks of COVID are far from over.

[mommyoffive]

Equatorial Guinea declares outbreak of Ebola-like Marburg virus - BNO News

[mommyoffive]

Long Covid Weekly #32: Microbiome, Autoantibodies & more (substack.com)

[Lawyer&Mom]

Help me help a family member:  What’s the current over the counter recommendations for acute COVID?  I’ve been reinfected several times, but I always just stay on my usual LongCovid supplements, so I don’t know what to recommend to a first time COVID patient. 

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

Help me help a family member:  What’s the current over the counter recommendations for acute COVID?  I’ve been reinfected several times, but I always just stay on my usual LongCovid supplements, so I don’t know what to recommend to a first time COVID patient. 

NAC, zinc lozenges, quercitin, Xlear nasal spray if you can get it, and mouthwash with cetylpyridinium chloride (link is to a scientific study). NAC (n-acetyl-cysteine) has some solid science behind it, it was originally approved as a drug for it's mucolytic properties and it's still used in hospitals in aerosolized form.

Lots of people will also say to take D and C, and those certainly won't hurt, but from what I've read they don't make much difference once you're already sick (e.g. having high levels of D before getting sick predicts a better outcome, but taking D once you're already sick doesn't improve outcome).

[Harriet Vane]

Can someone link a study for efficacy of iodine nasal spray? I'm having trouble finding it here and a friend wants to consider it for her daughter who has a chronic infection. 

[wathe]

@Harriet VaneChronic covid infection?  Or general chronic rhinosinusitis?

I did a quick search for efficacy studies for covid.  I found lots of studies looking at reduction of viral load in the nose.  No studies that I could find on reduction of clinical covid illness. Important distinction.  

I did not find anything for efficacy for chronic covid infections, but did find one on safety of chronic use.  

A negative RTC

Another negative study

A very small single-arm, uncontrolled, un-randomized, open-label positive study on 14 people, showing decreased in nasal viral load.  Actual covid outcomes (hospitalization, death)not studied.

Postitive metanalysis 

All of the studies I could find are looking for either in vivo or in vivo reduction of viral load in the nasal mucosa.  I can't find a single study that looks at the efficacy of nasal sprays that looked as clinical outcomes, such as preventing clinical COVID-19 illness  or hospitalization or death.  Which are what is actually needed, I think, if preventing clinical illness is the goal  (analogy: douching post-coitus decreases the sperm load in the vagina, but does not prevent pregnancy)

If anyone can find a study on nasal sprays and covid outcomes, I would love to see it, please link.

And for fun:  A garbage efficacy paper: One individual person thinks it must work because he personally used it,  is a HCW who sees patients with covid, and hadn't got covid yet.  (I don't, so am  I, and I haven't either!).  I can't believe this got published anywhere.

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by wathe

[ktgrok]

Do we know if nitric oxide nasal sprays are going to become approved/available more in the USA? I ordered some Sanotize a while back, but it ships from Israel I think, and it NOT cheap. Two bottles is over 100 dollars. The stuff has good data from what I can tell, but I'm hesitant to keep paying that much for it!

[KSera]

19 minutes ago, wathe said:

And for fun:  A garbage efficacy paper: One individual person thinks it must work because he personally used it,  is a HCW who sees patients with covid, and hadn't got covid yet.  (I don't, so am  I, and I haven't either!).  I can't believe this got published anywhere.

 

🧐 Wow. That's.....something.

[wathe]

42 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Do we know if nitric oxide nasal sprays are going to become approved/available more in the USA? I ordered some Sanotize a while back, but it ships from Israel I think, and it NOT cheap. Two bottles is over 100 dollars. The stuff has good data from what I can tell, but I'm hesitant to keep paying that much for it!

All the studies that I can find measure reduction of viral load in the nose, rather than actual covid outcomes.  Same limitations as the iodine nasal spray studies that I could find.  I doubt that any drug will be approved for covid treatment in the absence of outcome data.

Does anyone know of studies that look at covid outcomes (hospitalization , death, symptoms, transmission etc) for nasal sprays?

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, wathe said:

All the studies that I can find measure reduction of viral load in the nose, rather than actual covid outcomes.  Same limitations as the iodine nasal spray studies that I could find.  I doubt that any drug will be approved for covid treatment in the absence of outcome data.

Does anyone know of studies that look at covid outcomes (hospitalization , death, symptoms, transmission etc) for nasal sprays?

I'm mostly interested in prevention, but reducing viral load seems important in that it would likely reduce spread? I did find that on the one company's page they said that since they can't prove impact on hospitalization without a more expensive trial with a massive number of people (because fewer are being hospitalized anyway), they are switching to trying to prove prevention. They were supposed to start a new trial with that goal in October, not sure where that is at. 

[wathe]

41 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'm mostly interested in prevention, but reducing viral load seems important in that it would likely reduce spread? I did find that on the one company's page they said that since they can't prove impact on hospitalization without a more expensive trial with a massive number of people (because fewer are being hospitalized anyway), they are switching to trying to prove prevention. They were supposed to start a new trial with that goal in October, not sure where that is at. 

You would think.  But the history of medicine is chock full of examples of applying interventions that seemed like they should work, and finding out afterwards that they didn't work and instead caused harm.  Drugs need trials.  Plausible mechanism isn't enough.

Prevention is definitely a worthwhile outcome to study.  I'd like to see that study when it comes out.

[mommyoffive]

Removing masks in healthcare is dangerous and unethical. (substack.com)

[wathe]

Paxlovid real-world interim analysis in British Columbia

Bottom line: Some benefit in high-risk patients.  Benefit in low risk patients has not been established.

Echos results of EPIC-HR(good efficacy in unvaxed with risk factors) and EPIC-SR(halted for futility) 

Edited February 14, 2023 by wathe

[mommyoffive]

Preserve and Expand the Public Health Resources Under the COVID State of Emergency (substack.com)

[kbutton]

18 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Long Covid Weekly #32: Microbiome, Autoantibodies & more (substack.com)

The BMJ article is fantastic. People don't realize that some sectors of healthcare workers have next to no benefits; it's not just a choice to have zero work/life balance. My DH has never had sick days or paid vacation since working in an emergency department, except for Covid sick days. As soon as it's not under emergency authorization, I am certain he'll be expected to work sick since he was berated to come back before he was ready with an N-95 in place even though it's official policy to stay home until you feel well enough. 

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Removing masks in healthcare is dangerous and unethical. (substack.com)

Signed the petition! It's far past time for masks to be considered a universal precaution similar to gloving up when you are drawing blood.

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, kbutton said:

The BMJ article is fantastic. People don't realize that some sectors of healthcare workers have next to no benefits; it's not just a choice to have zero work/life balance. My DH has never had sick days or paid vacation since working in an emergency department, except for Covid sick days. As soon as it's not under emergency authorization, I am certain he'll be expected to work sick since he was berated to come back before he was ready with an N-95 in place even though it's official policy to stay home until you feel well enough. 

Signed the petition! It's far past time for masks to be considered a universal precaution similar to gloving up when you are drawing blood.

 

Your part about your dh just disgusts me.  That is horrible.

Totally agree for masks to be a universal precaution.  I can't believe we are even debating it right now after the last 3-4 years.  

[kbutton]

17 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Your part about your dh just disgusts me.  That is horrible.

It's hard because so much is about not losing money, productivity, etc. so they have to run lean on staff. There is an on-call schedule, but it's not to be used more than a day or two. This is where the crunch comes in--you're supposed to find someone to cover for you if you'll be off more than a day or two. While you're sick. But people make plans for their days off, and when everyone works shifts, it's not like the people can just suddenly show up at any ole time of day.

[kbutton]

21 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

 

Your part about your dh just disgusts me.  That is horrible.

Totally agree for masks to be a universal precaution.  I can't believe we are even debating it right now after the last 3-4 years.  

P.S. Most of that time, he's had egregiously expensive healthcare as well, and that predates emergency medicine. 

[wathe]

36 minutes ago, kbutton said:

The BMJ article is fantastic. People don't realize that some sectors of healthcare workers have next to no benefits; it's not just a choice to have zero work/life balance. My DH has never had sick days or paid vacation since working in an emergency department, except for Covid sick days. As soon as it's not under emergency authorization, I am certain he'll be expected to work sick since he was berated to come back before he was ready with an N-95 in place even though it's official policy to stay home until you feel well enough. 

Signed the petition! It's far past time for masks to be considered a universal precaution similar to gloving up when you are drawing blood.

MD's here are almost all independent/self-employed.  Which means no benefits, no sick days.  Don't work, don't eat.  

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, wathe said:

MD's here are almost all independent/self-employed.  Which means no benefits, no sick days.  Don't work, don't eat.  

Even people in private practice here have benefits (sometimes crazy expensive because they are small employers). They are still self-employed, but not like a contractor. If they are not partners, they usually get a salary (vs. hourly wage like in the ER), vacation, etc. I think if they are partners, they work out vacations among themselves, and they usually make enough money that it's not a big deal. There is a huge difference in pay between midlevels and physicians--more so than would be expected by their levels of responsibility alone (PAs and NPs can do 80% of what MD/DOs can do, and they get broader scope of practice every few years). 

If someone gets unexpectedly sick in private practice, they shift the schedule the best that they can, but as you know in emergency med, people don't make ER appointments like they do in an office. It can be ugly to shift in an office, but it can usually be made to work all right.

Surgeons seem to have both more flexibility and be worked off their feet at the same time due to long hours with complicated patients after doing their surgical work. I suspect their entire benefit structure is very different. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Totally agree for masks to be a universal precaution.  I can't believe we are even debating it right now after the last 3-4 years.  

Strong agree. I don't think masks should go away for health care facilities ever at this point. It just makes sense where you're mixing sick people, potentially sick people and very vulnerable people all in one place.

[BeachGal]

Here is a site to check out if you are interested in ongoing and completed Covid-related studies. The results below are for various nasal spray studies, not necessarily for prevention though.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/who_table

 

 

[mommyoffive]

14 hours ago, KSera said:

Strong agree. I don't think masks should go away for health care facilities ever at this point. It just makes sense where you're mixing sick people, potentially sick people and very vulnerable people all in one place.

Yes!  I wonder if doctor and nurses want masks to still be required?  Man I sure would.  I would sure rather have a person cough on me in a mask vs without while I was treating them.

[TCB]

54 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Yes!  I wonder if doctor and nurses want masks to still be required?  Man I sure would.  I would sure rather have a person cough on me in a mask vs without while I was treating them.

I work in an ICU and I would like us to wear masks for the foreseeable future as it is at least something we can do to protect the patients. I’ve seen figures showing a 30% increase in mortality for someone with a hip fracture who catches Covid while in hospital, and also worse outcomes for trauma patients who coincidentally are infected with Covid. 
Most of the people I work with are quite careful to wear masks in the patient rooms, which is the rule at the moment, but some are not. I’ve discussed the above mentioned increased risks with some of them but it does not seem to change what they do. I find it really hard to understand and it’s hard to see. Puts me off working more hours as I find it upsetting. I try to safeguard my allocated patients as much as possible by asking anyone coming in their rooms to mask up properly. I’m sure I’m not very popular with some people because of that.

Coincidentally I don’t think I’ve had Covid yet myself. I wear a mask everywhere at work and don’t eat in the break room. I’ve also had 2 booster vaccinations, including the bivalent. Some of the people I work with have had 3 infections, and just about everyone else has had at least one, so I am probably on borrowed time as far as that goes.

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33 minutes ago, TCB said:

Most of the people I work with are quite careful to wear masks in the patient rooms, which is the rule at the moment, but some are not. I’ve discussed the above mentioned increased risks with some of them but it does not seem to change what they do.

People who aren't interested in this information should not be in healthcare. End of story. If nursing schools and all the other programs are so competitive to enter, surely we have the means to screen these people out. 

It burns me up. DH would like masks to be a universal precaution going forward even though he's not thrilled about wearing an N-95 and his goggles. He does wear a KN94 in less risky situations because it's a lot easier, but we're so careful in real life that I don't think he's putting people at risk. Most providers wear a surgical style mask unless seeing a likely Covid patient, and almost none are taking any care outside of work (well, some might test to see granny, but I doubt it).

We have a child with multiple pulmonary conditions. It angers me that he can't count on healthcare workers to protect him.

35 minutes ago, TCB said:

I’ve seen figures showing a 30% increase in mortality for someone with a hip fracture who catches Covid while in hospital, and also worse outcomes for trauma patients who coincidentally are infected with Covid. 

If it were MRSA instead of Covid, heads would roll. 

And the ICU for crying out loud--people don't go there because they are robust and healthy.

Infecting patients through negligence is just selfish, selfish, selfish behavior. It would make me really upset to see that at work also.