Concerns about DS not making friends

[Teaching3bears]

DS is in his second year of high school.  Last year he did not make friends but much of the year was spent at home because of Covid. 
This year he still has not made friends.  He eats lunch alone and only talks to others in class when required.  There is only one extracurricular offered and he cannot go because it conflicts with an activity he already does.  I have contacted the guidance counsellor but he said there is nothing he can do because of Covid.  I am concerned but I don’t know what to do.

He has two classes that are very interactive but still has not made friends.  He does not seem to care but it seems extreme and I am worried he will feel left out later.  He had friends in elementary school and was well-liked.  

[Fritz]

Does he have friends outside of school? Maybe try other outside groups like scouting, 4-H, church youth group, or some other youth oriented groups. Or maybe a part time job working with other teenagers? Sorry, I'm old and don't know what other current offering in your area might be. It is so hard to see your children struggle. 

[Teaching3bears]

I think it’s not just lack of exposure to others. I think he is not interacting with them enough to make friends.  He does an after school activity with teens and spends time with them but is only polite with them.  I think they are put off by him.  

[Innisfree]

Does he have an autism diagnosis? Your description sounds very much like my teen who does. For us, at this point, the best thing I can find seems to be an interest-based group which is open to both kids and adults. Dd isn't making typical teenage friends, but she is engaging appropriately with a supportive and encouraging group of adults (she's the only teen I see there).

The period when friendships are primarily determined by age tends to end after college, in any case, so I hope that with time, she'll find friends within her interest. The group she's working with now is a good start toward that. It's a stable group, and her efforts are respected by the people around her there. 

Does your ds have interests that could be pursued in a community group? A class, a club of some sort?

[Innisfree]

If he's open to it, a social skills class targeted to his age could be helpful. Availability and willingness to take part both vary, though, ime.

[athena1277]

Sometimes it takes a while to find the friends that really fit with a person.  Dd18 enjoyed activities with our church youth group and AHG in high school, but she didn’t really have friends she was super close to.  Her closest friends were from a homeschool event we attend every year.  They would chat a couple evenings a week on Zoom.  
Does your ds have friends from other places that he can spend time with online (gaming, chatting, etc.)?  

[mom2scouts]

12 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Does he have an autism diagnosis? Your description sounds very much like my teen who does. For us, at this point, the best thing I can find seems to be an interest-based group which is open to both kids and adults. Dd isn't making typical teenage friends, but she is engaging appropriately with a supportive and encouraging group of adults (she's the only teen I see there).

The period when friendships are primarily determined by age tends to end after college, in any case, so I hope that with time, she'll find friends within her interest. The group she's working with now is a good start toward that. It's a stable group, and her efforts are respected by the people around her there. 

Does your ds have interests that could be pursued in a community group? A class, a club of some sort?

Freshman DD is having trouble finding friends too, but she's homeschooled in an area with few teen homeschool activities. I don't think exposure always works because sometimes it's harder for kids to find friends that fit their personality or interests.

DS does not have an autism diagnosis, but in high school he had trouble finding teen friends. He joined several groups that he was really interested in despite the fact that all other members were adults and he made friends there. Now as a college student he has friends from ages 18 to 80 and flows easily between them. I think this is a good idea for OP to try.

 

[Teaching3bears]

I think he mostly has the skills to make friends.  Even when he is doing activities that he likes he is not making friends.  I am not sure why.  He does play outside with kids in the neighborhood sometimes.  Half the time I have to force him.  They seem to like him and he seems fine once he is with them but often does not want to go.
I am not sure why this is a problem. Here are some hypotheses:

1.  He does not know enough about the popular media they like and this is what they talk about all the time.

2. The kids are not acting goofy enough and he doesn’t feel comfortable around others until he can act goofy.

3. He is feeling badly about himself in some way.  He is smaller than most of the other boys.

4. He feels he should just act “cool” and not look needy in any way.  
 

 

 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

1 minute ago, Teaching3bears said:

I think he mostly has the skills to make friends.  Even when he is doing activities that he likes he is not making friends.  I am not sure why.  He does play outside with kids in the neighborhood sometimes.  Half the time I have to force him.  They seem to like him and he seems fine once he is with them but often does not want to go.
I am not sure why this is a problem. Here are some hypotheses:

1.  He does not know enough about the popular media they like and this is what they talk about all the time.

2. The kids are not acting goofy enough and he doesn’t feel comfortable around others until he can act goofy.

3. He is feeling badly about himself in some way.  He is smaller than most of the other boys.

4. He feels he should just act “cool” and not look needy in any way.  
 

 

 

 

If you think these are the causes, how would you solve this? If these are the causes, it doesn't sound like just putting him into new social situation is going to solve 1, 3, or 4, and there's no guarantee with 2.  

[bibiche]

Does he have any strong interests? My nephew had the same issues, down to eating alone, and then decided to start a Magic the Gathering club at school. Lots of nerdy kids he didn’t know existed joined, and he found his tribe.

[kirstenhill]

My DD17 was slow to get started making friends at school in high school.  Ninth grade was her second year in public school, but her 8th grade year was in a different district.  Despite it being a large school, many kids already knew each other from middle school classes and outside of school activities. She too sat alone most her first year at school because despite being outgoing, she found it a difficult dynamic. She wasn't super interested in extracurriculars, but she got a job a place that mostly had other teenagers working, and she really enjoys the friends she made there.  Honestly, she still rarely "hangs out" with school friends or work friends outside of school/work though.  And she seems fine with that -- she is happy to go to school/work, see people there, and then come home for homework, time with family, and chatting on Facetime with a couple close friends from the city where we use to live (we move over 3 years ago, but she has stayed close with friends there).  I don't think the social dynamic has to look the same for everyone.   My DS14 also seems to not care that he is close with his brothers, and one best friend from our former city, and doesn't have any close friends locally.  He loves interacting with people at a class or activity, but has little interest in making social plans outside of that. 

[Teaching3bears]

He is not making friends at his after school activities even though he likes the activities and the kids are nice.  

[Teaching3bears]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

If you think these are the causes, how would you solve this? If these are the causes, it doesn't sound like just putting him into new social situation is going to solve 1, 3, or 4, and there's no guarantee with 2.  

Yeah, I don’t think he needs a new situation and he doesn’t have the time.  I was wondering if I should talk to him about this.  Or, if I should figure out what media his peers are into so he can have something to talk about with them and feel more coNfident talking with them.

 

[PeterPan]

Not to be too obvious, but if he *wants* friends and is having trouble, the way to find one is to look for someone who *needs* a friend. 

5 hours ago, Teaching3bears said:

I think they are put off by him.

I think sometimes moms are so close to situations that we don't see our kids the same way others do. Our kids are used to talking with us, so they're different with us. 

 

[PeterPan]

Just now, Teaching3bears said:

 I was wondering if I should talk to him about this.

Yes.

 

[Teaching3bears]

4 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Yes.

 

What is the best way to do this/ what to say?

[Teaching3bears]

6 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Not to be too obvious, but if he *wants* friends and is having trouble, the way to find one is to look for someone who *needs* a friend. 

I think sometimes moms are so close to situations that we don't see our kids the same way others do. Our kids are used to talking with us, so they're different with us. 

 

That’s the problem.  He says he doesn’t want friends but this may be a front.  I think I will tell him to sit beside someone who is also alone at lunch.

I noticed a couple of times his peers were friendly with him and he did not reciprocate much and they looked at me with either a “what’s with him?” or a “what did I do wrong?’ expression.

 

 

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, Teaching3bears said:

What is the best way to do this/ what to say?

"I've been wondering how the social thing is going at school..."

"I've been wondering whether it's a challenging connecting with kids at the school..."

"I've been wondering how it is transitioning from the social world of homeschooling to the social world in a public school..."

With my ds a statement goes better than a question. But just bring it up, kwim? What is there to be ashamed of? He made a huge change and if you are noticing, it's possible he is noticing. Worse would be if he WEREN'T noticing. That would be really eyebrow raising. 

And then I'd be wondering/asking if he had anything he wanted to do or if he was noticing skill gaps or things he needed to make it go better... 

There are also books on this. You can go to SocialThinking.com and pull up their teen section. You can just place an appropriate book on his bedside table. I'd just be wondering what's going on in his mind about this and what he perceives as the issue. Had you worked on narrative language with him or was that someone else? I so get people mixed up. Narrative and conversation are intricately intertwined. If there were *subtle* issues going on, they might going unnoticed at home and hit the fan at school. He might have been fine socially younger and then had trouble as the social demands and social complexities increased. 

It's really not something to be ashamed about. Just talk about it. See what he says.

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, Teaching3bears said:

he did not reciprocate much

What do you think was the reason? That would be a classic response from a person on the spectrum. Also could be clinical depression, hearing loss, any number of things.

[prairiewindmomma]

If you are telling us above that he has the skills to make friends and then you are telling us later in the thread that he isn't reciprocating to others trying to be friendly, there's a disconnect there. 

"Hey, I saw Aiden (made up name) coming over and saying hi to you, and you just ignored him by not saying hi back and then you looked away. What's up with that?"

 

[kristin0713]

Maybe it’s just early still? It’s only October. If he’s involved in activities that he enjoys, I’d give it more time. 

[alisoncooks]

29 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

I noticed a couple of times his peers were friendly with him and he did not reciprocate much and they looked at me with either a “what’s with him?” or a “what did I do wrong?’ expression.

Not to be rude, but maybe (at times like the above) make yourself scarce. Sometimes a parental presence can make teens self-conscious when they’re interacting with new friends (at least until the friendship is comfortable). Better to step away and let them navigate it.  Unless there are specific reasons, I say let him do this on his own. 

[Teaching3bears]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

What do you think was the reason? That would be a classic response from a person on the spectrum. Also could be clinical depression, hearing loss, any number of things.

I am not sure but I have a couple of clues: I am wondering if he is unsure of how to use his voice since it changed.  He used to use his voice very confidently and now he doesn’t.  He mumbles a lot with me lately.  Also, when we go out in public he often asks me not to speak at all (I am very soft-spoken) because then “everybody could hear” (I am talking about everyday things and there is literally nobody around to hear).  I was a very self-conscious, shy and embarrassed teenager, so in a way I can relate but I did have a few close friends and did talks with my peers. 

[Teaching3bears]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

If you are telling us above that he has the skills to make friends and then you are telling us later in the thread that he isn't reciprocating to others trying to be friendly, there's a disconnect there. 

"Hey, I saw Aiden (made up name) coming over and saying hi to you, and you just ignored him by not saying hi back and then you looked away. What's up with that?"

 

I’ve tried to have that conversation but he brushes me off or says’ leave me alone’ or “I don’t care”.  

[Teaching3bears]

42 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

Not to be rude, but maybe (at times like the above) make yourself scarce. Sometimes a parental presence can make teens self-conscious when they’re interacting with new friends (at least until the friendship is comfortable). Better to step away and let them navigate it.  Unless there are specific reasons, I say let him do this on his own. 

Yes, I don’t usually see what happens with his peers but these incidents happened when I was driving or dropping him off so I had to be there.

[mom2scouts]

6 hours ago, bibiche said:

Does he have any strong interests? My nephew had the same issues, down to eating alone, and then decided to start a Magic the Gathering club at school. Lots of nerdy kids he didn’t know existed joined, and he found his tribe.

Yes, I think lots of nerdy kids are introverts or have interests that are more solitary so they don't always find each other as easily. 

[PeterPan]

47 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

I’ve tried to have that conversation but he brushes me off or says’ leave me alone’ or “I don’t care”.  

And your take on that? 

51 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

 He mumbles a lot with me lately.

Have you thought about whether there's some depression? I'm just asking. It's always the thing at this age to be very careful about.

51 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

Also, when we go out in public he often asks me not to speak at all (I am very soft-spoken) because then “everybody could hear”

I don't know much about child development, but someone was telling me there's a stage kids go through where they're embarrassed about their parents and then the changes that happen as they come to the other side. So the interesting question is whether he's hitting this stage later than typical. I wouldn't take it personally, as in he's being BAD, but rather look at the developmental appropriateness of it. When does this normally occur in kids? 

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

If you are telling us above that he has the skills to make friends and then you are telling us later in the thread that he isn't reciprocating to others trying to be friendly, there's a disconnect there. 

Yup. Was he this nonresponsive and glum and trying to be left alone *before* he went to this school? What is the timing here? I guess that would be pretty dramatic if he was happy go lucky, enrolled in school, and now he's like leave me alone prickle bear.

This might be a time to start asking for help. You have a very short window (16-18) where everything hits the fan and feels BIG for kids, all while they're making important decisions and moving toward independence. It's good to get stuff sorted out sooner rather than later and be asking for help.

[Teaching3bears]

18 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

And your take on that? 
When he brushes  me off etc., I think he is tired and embarrassed and not wanting to talk and sick of me asking.

Have you thought about whether there's some depression? I'm just asking. It's always the thing at this age to be very careful about.

I have thought about this, but he seems happy lately and is often smiling to himself.

I don't know much about child development, but someone was telling me there's a stage kids go through where they're embarrassed about their parents and then the changes that happen as they come to the other side. So the interesting question is whether he's hitting this stage later than typical. I wouldn't take it personally, as in he's being BAD, but rather look at the developmental appropriateness of it. When does this normally occur in kids? 
I don’t think he is embarrassed of me but embarrassed of talking and having others hear us.  I have tried to use logic with him to show him that nothing horrible will happen if others hear us talking about the weather but that does not work.

 

Yup. Was he this nonresponsive and glum and trying to be left alone *before* he went to this school? What is the timing here? I guess that would be pretty dramatic if he was happy go lucky, enrolled in school, and now he's like leave me alone prickle bear.

it started a bit before school.  

This might be a time to start asking for help. You have a very short window (16-18) where everything hits the fan and feels BIG for kids, all while they're making important decisions and moving toward independence. It's good to get stuff sorted out sooner rather than later and be asking for help.

 

I emailed the guidance counsel twice and he said there was nothing he could do and I have spoken to a counsellor myself about this.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Based on all of the threads over the past year on this point, including the ones where you mentioned your son was withdrawing into his room more at home—I would have depression and anxiety on my radar for him.

[Teaching3bears]

8 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Based on all of the threads over the past year on this point, including the ones where you mentioned your son was withdrawing into his room more at home—I would have depression and anxiety on my radar for him.

He doesn’t seem depressed.  Maybe anxiety though he does not look anxious.  I don’t know what to do about it.  I want to help him.  He will not participate in counselling. 

[Ailaena]

You have two, older SN boys, right?   Do you think he’s at the awkward age where he doesn’t want to have to explain about them?  Maybe he just doesn’t know other kids well enough yet to deal with their reaction?

Though maybe I’m confusing you with somebody else and I apologize.  

[East Coast Sue]

18 hours ago, Teaching3bears said:

DS is in his second year of high school.  Last year he did not make friends but much of the year was spent at home because of Covid. 
This year he still has not made friends.  He eats lunch alone and only talks to others in class when required.  There is only one extracurricular offered and he cannot go because it conflicts with an activity he already does.  I have contacted the guidance counsellor but he said there is nothing he can do because of Covid.  I am concerned but I don’t know what to do.

He has two classes that are very interactive but still has not made friends.  He does not seem to care but it seems extreme and I am worried he will feel left out later.  He had friends in elementary school and was well-liked.  

I have this same situation with my son, also 2nd year in high school. I’m also concerned and the school is aware but isn’t helping. Just wanted you to know that you/your son aren’t alone in this struggle. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by East Coast Sue
Spelling error

[Teaching3bears]

3 hours ago, Ailaena said:

You have two, older SN boys, right?   Do you think he’s at the awkward age where he doesn’t want to have to explain about them?  Maybe he just doesn’t know other kids well enough yet to deal with their reaction?

Though maybe I’m confusing you with somebody else and I apologize.  

Yes, this is part of it, at least a bit, and it makes him feel different.  Last year, when his teacher asked him if he had siblings, he told her he had two ‘younger’ brothers.

[Teaching3bears]

3 hours ago, East Coast Sue said:

I have this same situation with my son, also 2nd year in high school. I’m also concerned and the school is aware but isn’t helping. Just wanted you to know that you/your son aren’t alone in this struggle. 

Thanks! Has anything helped?

[PeterPan]

So has he had evals or not? That's hard to be in the shadows of people who *do* get evals and labels and supports/interventions and have your mix look enough different that people just say you're fine in comparison.

https://www.socialthinking.com/Articles?name=social-thinking-social-communication-profile  

You know this, but go through the article and see if he's there..

Sometimes the first step in getting help is to take a step, any step. Doesn't have to be the right or perfect one. You could talk with the school or ask your family doctor. 

 

[Teaching3bears]

9 hours ago, PeterPan said:

So has he had evals or not? That's hard to be in the shadows of people who *do* get evals and labels and supports/interventions and have your mix look enough different that people just say you're fine in comparison.

https://www.socialthinking.com/Articles?name=social-thinking-social-communication-profile  

You know this, but go through the article and see if he's there..

Sometimes the first step in getting help is to take a step, any step. Doesn't have to be the right or perfect one. You could talk with the school or ask your family doctor. 

 

No.  He’s very aware and sensitive to others.  It’s more likely that he is afraid of being judged or he doesn’t bother trying.  

[PeterPan]

50 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

He’s very aware and sensitive to others.

Did you look at the social communication profiles anyway? You can be *hyper* responsive for sensory and thus *usually* aware of people, their responses, etc. It's this total inverse presentation of the more common under-responsive. 

[Teaching3bears]

Maybe the SASC.

[easypeasy]

Just popping in because I saw you say that "he seems happy lately, is smiling to himself..." up above.

When I was around grade 7-10, I withdrew into myself quite a bit. Everything overwhelmed me and everyone seemed to be moving in a million directions and everyone was just so darn loud.

I was more interested in my own hobbies, reading books, and being somewhere sort of quiet and still, tbh. I tolerated other kids my age and they were all nice enough to me - I was nice enough back, but not enough to make them want to seek me out, yk?

*I* was fine with this arrangement. I could talk to people if/when I needed to, but was at my happiest when I would do "my" things or read. I also preferred to talk to adults because they were less chaotic than my peers.

My parents were SUPER worried. I probably had a touch of depression, looking back, but I think it was situational - because, again, when I was at school or in peer groups, everything was so overwhelming & I didn't fit in (I also wasn't up to date on all the current teen events to talk about because I would prefer to have my nose in a book).

My parents stressed me out to no end over it. Asking me questions constantly about whether or not I was "happy," pressuring me to "go talk to so-and-so," or "go sit with such-and-such."

*I* felt normal. Happy. Content. Until my parents just kept on my case about why no one called our house, or why I didn't go to a friend's house after school, or why, why, why. It was *then* that I felt awful and awkward and weird and unlikable.

I'm *NOT* saying this is the case with your son at all - maybe there is depression or something else going on. But, around this same age, I sounded pretty similar to what you're describing, but I really WAS HAPPY.

My parents were both extroverted and were handed a very introverted daughter and they didn't know what was "wrong" with me because there wasn't anything "wrong" with me at all! 🙂 As a parent now, I totally understand their worries and get why they were trying to get me to interact with other kids my age. But, I wish they'd taken a step back and a) realized their tactics weren't working and were, in fact, what were making me cry and be miserable and b) TALKED to me about what I was doing/reading/interested in instead of asking me about other people. Talking about a birthday party I wasn't invited to just didn't make me feel good inside, yk? I think it would have saved our relationship through those years.

(Lunches at school were the worst, though. At our school, the teachers would force kids who sat alone to get up and move to tables full of people. I'm sure their hearts were in the right place, but omg - the utter humiliation. My cheeks still burn red just thinking about those awful days...)

** Mid-high school, I just decided I was ready to talk to people. And - I did. 🤷‍♂️ I made a lot of friends. But it was on my own time table and once I had sort of outgrown my years of needing to curl away from all the noise and chaos of other people.

[Teaching3bears]

6 hours ago, easypeasy said:

Just popping in because I saw you say that "he seems happy lately, is smiling to himself..." up above.

When I was around grade 7-10, I withdrew into myself quite a bit. Everything overwhelmed me and everyone seemed to be moving in a million directions and everyone was just so darn loud.

I was more interested in my own hobbies, reading books, and being somewhere sort of quiet and still, tbh. I tolerated other kids my age and they were all nice enough to me - I was nice enough back, but not enough to make them want to seek me out, yk?

*I* was fine with this arrangement. I could talk to people if/when I needed to, but was at my happiest when I would do "my" things or read. I also preferred to talk to adults because they were less chaotic than my peers.

My parents were SUPER worried. I probably had a touch of depression, looking back, but I think it was situational - because, again, when I was at school or in peer groups, everything was so overwhelming & I didn't fit in (I also wasn't up to date on all the current teen events to talk about because I would prefer to have my nose in a book).

My parents stressed me out to no end over it. Asking me questions constantly about whether or not I was "happy," pressuring me to "go talk to so-and-so," or "go sit with such-and-such."

*I* felt normal. Happy. Content. Until my parents just kept on my case about why no one called our house, or why I didn't go to a friend's house after school, or why, why, why. It was *then* that I felt awful and awkward and weird and unlikable.

I'm *NOT* saying this is the case with your son at all - maybe there is depression or something else going on. But, around this same age, I sounded pretty similar to what you're describing, but I really WAS HAPPY.

My parents were both extroverted and were handed a very introverted daughter and they didn't know what was "wrong" with me because there wasn't anything "wrong" with me at all! 🙂 As a parent now, I totally understand their worries and get why they were trying to get me to interact with other kids my age. But, I wish they'd taken a step back and a) realized their tactics weren't working and were, in fact, what were making me cry and be miserable and b) TALKED to me about what I was doing/reading/interested in instead of asking me about other people. Talking about a birthday party I wasn't invited to just didn't make me feel good inside, yk? I think it would have saved our relationship through those years.

(Lunches at school were the worst, though. At our school, the teachers would force kids who sat alone to get up and move to tables full of people. I'm sure their hearts were in the right place, but omg - the utter humiliation. My cheeks still burn red just thinking about those awful days...)

** Mid-high school, I just decided I was ready to talk to people. And - I did. 🤷‍♂️ I made a lot of friends. But it was on my own time table and once I had sort of outgrown my years of needing to curl away from all the noise and chaos of other people.

Thank you for posting this!  This is what I am concerned about if I bug him too much.  Maybe he is somewhat content.  He says he is.  I don’t want to make a problem out of something that isn’t and I don’t want him to feel bad about himself. 

[PeterPan]

Introverted and SASC social anxiety aren't really the same. This was about the age I started doing Myers Brigg type stuff with my dd. There's a book Do What You Are that uses personality tests to suggests directions for careers. It's another way to put words to what he's feeling. I agree about not pushing things onto him. 

22 minutes ago, Teaching3bears said:

He says he is.

Well there you go. 

Fwiw, you can also be that loner who's alone at lunch, content, later finding your tribe and conversing, who turns out to be on the spectrum. 😉 But even if that were the case (which I'm not saying it is, just if), would somehow worrying about it or trying to force it change things?

The Social Thinking site has a whole section of books for teens and if you think he actually has some social anxiety or perceived social skills deficits, even just tiny holes, he could get those books most likely through the library. I would especially be providing those *if* he's saying he's having trouble making friends or saying he wants help. 

Was he like this prior to enrolling in the school? Or is it hard to know because of covid? 

[East Coast Sue]

21 hours ago, Teaching3bears said:

Thanks! Has anything helped?

My son recently was diagnosed w/ASD. I’m hoping the school will do more to help with social skills but evidently if the student declines or doesn’t buy into it then the school doesn’t provide help. He declined help with social stuff last year but he might be more open now so I’ll revisit the idea with the school. Although my son declined social skills help, he does get other counseling at school that’s not based on his “buy in” so I’m hoping that will be an avenue to approach how he’s doing socially. I hope that makes sense.