Ds is losing weight, help!

[kbutton]

10 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Yeah but right now ds' fingers are REALLY thin. If he got sick and lost more weight (which I agree happens), that would be too thin. We used to see his ribs in the old days. I haven't seen him without his shirt in a while, but we don't want that. 

I don't know how the quote you shared about sickness became attributed to me, but some people are...ribby. It doesn't always mean someone is too thin, or that if they are on the thin side, that anything will work. Someone in my DH's family was rib-showing thin in spite of eating 7000-8000 calories every day. 

50% for weight is not underweight. It's just not. 

Is there any chance that some genetics are at play that don't pop up frequently in your family? Mine has a very big range or genetic, and my DH's is less variable, but there are some outliers. In our larger family, you never know who is going to get what traits--it's a very mixed bag. Many kids in my family show up with traits that are obvious 2-3 generations back but not present in parents (or sometimes even grandparents). 

[kbutton]

5 minutes ago, Katy said:

He’s at his set point.  If he got sick he’d weigh less for a week or two, but when he felt better he’d get hungry until he regained the weight.  You really should not try and force feed him.  You might teach him to ignore his natural hunger cues & have weight problems for life.  Leave it alone. 

Yes, yes, yes. I know people who were naturally thin and always ate like they could get away with it. Some do, but some end up morbidly obese. You just don't know what will happen. 

[BeachGal]

Where are you cruising and when? Inquiring minds... 😀

How did the rest of hbot go?

Couldn't you just buy him some big boots and slip in lead weights? just kidding. maybe. 😊

[Eos]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

he's literally taking a drink of water for every bite he puts in his mouth.

Weight loss, excessive thirst, up to drink water or urinate at night or wetting the bed?  Type 1 diabetes has all of these.  My type 1 dd never had any breath smell - it's a late sign.  If he's up at night, please please take him to the doc to rule it out.  I'm sorry to sound naggy.  

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

That's how it goes here, lol! If it's at all from my side, it skipped generations, which I totally believe can happen (one of my kids is twinning one of my grandparents--the pics don't lie). 

I  had one doctor bug me about my dd1s weight.  Told me I had to put cream in cereal, change what juice she drank etc.   She was at 10% weight and at 75% height.  Well she was born weighing little (as were all three of mine) and she remained skinny for years as did all three.  So was I until after my second child when I started going on steroids more regularly.  I decided not to worry about it and other doctors didn't care either because she did grow and didn't go down much in weight percentage.

[PeterPan]

52 minutes ago, Harpymom said:

Weight loss, excessive thirst, up to drink water or urinate at night or wetting the bed?  Type 1 diabetes has all of these.  My type 1 dd never had any breath smell - it's a late sign.  If he's up at night, please please take him to the doc to rule it out.  I'm sorry to sound naggy.  

He has a diagnosed problem with his eating which is why he's drinking. He literally chews then sips to wash it down. He's getting myofunctional (chewing, mouth/tongue movements) therapy for it twice a week right now. I hear what you're saying, but I'm saying there's a diagnosed explanation. I will still mention it and let the doc do with it what he wants. Ds didn't potty train at all till 4 ½ and still wet regularly (daytime) till 7 and 8, even occasionally later (10). He has ASD2 and it just goes with the territory. And the nightwetting is not new but the same as always. 

I may even have some of those urine strips in our chemistry for all I know, but I think we have already diagnosed explanations. Sometimes when you bring something up with the doc, the insurance then pressures him to run more and more tests (that cost us money) even though there was nothing going on. Like I asked for my D to be run and then the insurance kept telling the doc he had to run it again and again, which was costing ME money. It was crazy. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, BeachGal said:

Where are you cruising and when? Inquiring minds... 😀

How did the rest of hbot go?

Couldn't you just buy him some big boots and slip in lead weights? just kidding. maybe. 😊

Where? I never ask that. I ask if the food will be good on the trip.   No seriously, I picked this new ship they've got (Carnival Mardi Gras) and it looks like it will have good food. I'm a terrible food snob and despise the main dining room, sigh. This new ship has enough specialty restaurants I can eat out almost every day. I'm excited. 

Oh so where are we going? Um, something caribbean. I think San Juan (Puerto Rico), Amber Cove (Dominican Republic), Grand Turk  (I've never been to any of these), Cozumel (btdt), Costa Maya (new to us), and Roatan (Mahogany Bay, Honduras, also btdt). I bought in early enough that the prices were good, so I don't really care. I have tried to avoid Aruba because well you remember that girl died there and it didn't seem kid friendly. 

I don't know. I just go to get some sun, relax. The boat shows up and I get off, lol. We've done a chocolate factory in Cozumel twice now (once alone and then with ds). I guess we just have boring tastes, lol. Some people go to these sort of all inclusive beach days, very swank. Ds said he'd take a food tour with me in Cozumel next time we're there. I offered him ATVs and instead we're looking at empanadas and fried fish. As long as it's not ceviche. I'm really not that adventurous. I like my food dead and COOKED. 

HBOT? I did 58 and then stopped abruptly. We had just gone from the 1.5 (standard for fresh concussions) to 2.0 and then 2.5. I had to move my dad from the hospital to rehab and then a new AL facility, and I was driving long hours every week for that. (Like super long days, 14 hour days.) So I'm kinda giving it some time to see where my head is at. I really don't know I was so tired I just sat in a stupor for a couple weeks. Now I think I'm feeling the effects of the smoke (wildfires) and trying to get my exercise endurance. I've been slowly working up on that. If you sit in an HBOT tank every day for 3 months, you really lose it! I couldn't even walk 18 minutes at the park without being tired. Now I can walk for an hour and I'm lifting (not heavy) and running a mile (with walking, haha). I have another crazy trip I need to do, and after I recover from that I'll see where I'm at. Like today I was dizzy (really dizzy) and I got all freaked out that maybe my brain inflammation was coming back. But then I ate a bowl of cereal and it went away. My sugar was obviously down with the exercising. (I want to lose 30 before I cruise, run Mama run!) 

I think I could stand to do another 20 HBOT, but I'm scared I'd get in and need 30 (more $$$). I gained a size this year and lost all my tone from inactivity during the HBOT, so I need to take care of my body, deal with these life things, and let it sort out. I know I want to do more but it just isn't happening right now, sigh. It's a huge commitment. 

My oxygen levels had held really well at 98 every morning. Then the last week they started going down. But I really think it's the fires farther west. We're having haze. My lungs were getting tight and I was waking up at 94-96% oxygen, which is really not good. I've ramped up an antihistamine, more turmeric, etc. But I think that's the smoke/haze, not some kind of undoing of my HBOT progress, kwim? 

I don't know if I've said this on the boards, but HBOT radically improved my driving. I had sworn for a very long time (like 20 years) that driving was accursed for me. Like I pretty much maxed out at 2 hours and didn't do much more than that. Now I've been driving 4 hours each way weekly to see my dad, to the point of adrenal exhaustion, lol. But that sort of nebulous, brain doesn't work, whatever it was that made driving so unpleasant is totally better. Go figure. And until the fires, my oxygen was staying really consistently at 98%. 

It's just we had JUST gone to 2.5 when I stopped and those two sessions deeper like that both got me big gains in clarity and opened up some areas that we really need to finish (old stuff, deep stuff). So I need to go back to feel my best. 

I actually have a theory (shhh) that I will end up taking the covid vaccine to cruise and that I will do my 20-30 HBOT a month after the vax. That's my theory. So the vax will cause inflammation and then we'll put it to rest with some nice HBOT. That's sorta my tentative plan. But since I have zero intentions of getting Pfizer (spit spit), that requires some divine providence and mercy and all that to end up with a vaccine being available that makes sense. But that's my theory, such as it is.

Lead weights? Haha, love it. I doubt they'd weigh him. It's more just the principal of the thing. They're taking the Mardi Gras and the Celebration on the same routes over and over (alternating weeks), so it's not like it's not easy to get back to these places. They're gonna be sorta Walmart cruise stops, mass transit. I just go for the adventure. As long as we're having fun, I don't care where they go. Someday when I'm old and crotchety and opinionated I'll probably care. For now, give me the breeze in my hair, a decent waterslide, tolerable food, free gelato, a virgin mango smoothie, and room service, and I'm good. 

[Kanin]

Super "milkshake" :

One banana, peanut/almond butter, coconut milk or other milk. I usually put in cocoa powder but I bet it's great without it. Vanilla or cinnamon would be good in there too! 

 

[Kanin]

You can buy chai concentrate at the grocery store, and add milk or almond milk or coconut milk. Delicious hot or iced.

[BeachGal]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Where? I never ask that. I ask if the food will be good on the trip.   No seriously, I picked this new ship they've got (Carnival Mardi Gras) and it looks like it will have good food. I'm a terrible food snob and despise the main dining room, sigh. This new ship has enough specialty restaurants I can eat out almost every day. I'm excited. 

Oh so where are we going? Um, something caribbean. I think San Juan (Puerto Rico), Amber Cove (Dominican Republic), Grand Turk  (I've never been to any of these), Cozumel (btdt), Costa Maya (new to us), and Roatan (Mahogany Bay, Honduras, also btdt). I bought in early enough that the prices were good, so I don't really care. I have tried to avoid Aruba because well you remember that girl died there and it didn't seem kid friendly. 

I don't know. I just go to get some sun, relax. The boat shows up and I get off, lol. We've done a chocolate factory in Cozumel twice now (once alone and then with ds). I guess we just have boring tastes, lol. Some people go to these sort of all inclusive beach days, very swank. Ds said he'd take a food tour with me in Cozumel next time we're there. I offered him ATVs and instead we're looking at empanadas and fried fish. As long as it's not ceviche. I'm really not that adventurous. I like my food dead and COOKED. 

HBOT? I did 58 and then stopped abruptly. We had just gone from the 1.5 (standard for fresh concussions) to 2.0 and then 2.5. I had to move my dad from the hospital to rehab and then a new AL facility, and I was driving long hours every week for that. (Like super long days, 14 hour days.) So I'm kinda giving it some time to see where my head is at. I really don't know I was so tired I just sat in a stupor for a couple weeks. Now I think I'm feeling the effects of the smoke (wildfires) and trying to get my exercise endurance. I've been slowly working up on that. If you sit in an HBOT tank every day for 3 months, you really lose it! I couldn't even walk 18 minutes at the park without being tired. Now I can walk for an hour and I'm lifting (not heavy) and running a mile (with walking, haha). I have another crazy trip I need to do, and after I recover from that I'll see where I'm at. Like today I was dizzy (really dizzy) and I got all freaked out that maybe my brain inflammation was coming back. But then I ate a bowl of cereal and it went away. My sugar was obviously down with the exercising. (I want to lose 30 before I cruise, run Mama run!) 

I think I could stand to do another 20 HBOT, but I'm scared I'd get in and need 30 (more $$$). I gained a size this year and lost all my tone from inactivity during the HBOT, so I need to take care of my body, deal with these life things, and let it sort out. I know I want to do more but it just isn't happening right now, sigh. It's a huge commitment. 

My oxygen levels had held really well at 98 every morning. Then the last week they started going down. But I really think it's the fires farther west. We're having haze. My lungs were getting tight and I was waking up at 94-96% oxygen, which is really not good. I've ramped up an antihistamine, more turmeric, etc. But I think that's the smoke/haze, not some kind of undoing of my HBOT progress, kwim? 

I don't know if I've said this on the boards, but HBOT radically improved my driving. I had sworn for a very long time (like 20 years) that driving was accursed for me. Like I pretty much maxed out at 2 hours and didn't do much more than that. Now I've been driving 4 hours each way weekly to see my dad, to the point of adrenal exhaustion, lol. But that sort of nebulous, brain doesn't work, whatever it was that made driving so unpleasant is totally better. Go figure. And until the fires, my oxygen was staying really consistently at 98%. 

It's just we had JUST gone to 2.5 when I stopped and those two sessions deeper like that both got me big gains in clarity and opened up some areas that we really need to finish (old stuff, deep stuff). So I need to go back to feel my best. 

I actually have a theory (shhh) that I will end up taking the covid vaccine to cruise and that I will do my 20-30 HBOT a month after the vax. That's my theory. So the vax will cause inflammation and then we'll put it to rest with some nice HBOT. That's sorta my tentative plan. But since I have zero intentions of getting Pfizer (spit spit), that requires some divine providence and mercy and all that to end up with a vaccine being available that makes sense. But that's my theory, such as it is.

Lead weights? Haha, love it. I doubt they'd weigh him. It's more just the principal of the thing. They're taking the Mardi Gras and the Celebration on the same routes over and over (alternating weeks), so it's not like it's not easy to get back to these places. They're gonna be sorta Walmart cruise stops, mass transit. I just go for the adventure. As long as we're having fun, I don't care where they go. Someday when I'm old and crotchety and opinionated I'll probably care. For now, give me the breeze in my hair, a decent waterslide, tolerable food, free gelato, a virgin mango smoothie, and room service, and I'm good. 

Good to hear you’re getting back to cruising. Should be a blast. The sun and sea air are therapeutic in themselves. I had to check out the different dining options and, if it was the right cruise, the options look quiiite tasty. I’d be eating on the hour. Might have to cross cruising off the list!

My bil got vaxed just to go cruising. He’s all set and already has at least one lined up. He’s old and crotchety and no longer likes the regular cruises. He’s more into the repositioning cruises and other oddball ones — like travelling down the Red Sea where they had to turn off the lights some nights while being escorted by the British Navy, I think it was. Doesn't that sound like a “fun” time?! 😆

Hbot experiences are so interesting. Shai Efrati, the Israeli researcher at Tel Aviv University, did a study involving participants sitting in an hbot chamber breathing pure oxygen at times for 2 hours per day, five days per week for two months. They had positive results, some really amazing. Maybe that’s why you tolerate driving better? 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-doctor-claims-to-reverse-aging-with-pure-oxygen-treatment-study/

Ever heard of ewot, exercise with oxygen therapy? I would like to try that. I have read that it helps some people improve their sat ox levels. I wonder if it could help long Covid, too? Could possibly help concussions, I would think. I think Promo Life sells the whole shabang. They’re a reliable company. I like them a lot.

Yeah, the haze is bad. We are driving to Montana soon, into fire areas along the way and some are close to the roads. Yikes. Not looking forward to the smoke. Or the potential fires for that matter! LOL I might bring my IQ Air filter to give to my sister who is there and majorly affected by the smoke. Hoping it rains. Seems to do that whenever dh enters the state.

[maize]

5 hours ago, Katy said:

He’s at his set point.  If he got sick he’d weigh less for a week or two, but when he felt better he’d get hungry until he regained the weight.  You really should not try and force feed him.  You might teach him to ignore his natural hunger cues & have weight problems for life.  Leave it alone. 

OR the kid may actually not be eating enough for a growing adolescent. 

Too few calories cause serious health problems much more quickly than do too many, and this is a kid with diagnosed eating difficulties.

We live in a society obsessed with thin-ness; that makes it easy to minimize the potential for problems caused by under-eating.

It sounds to me like mom has good reason to be concerned and paying attention.

[Arcadia]

6 hours ago, PeterPan said:

So I think a first line thing I can do is change what he is drinking at dinner to make it something with calories. That would be instantly better than drinking water. The water thing will only improve as his ability to move his tongue improves. It is, but there's obviously more to go. Maybe almond milk? Might be fine. It's what he normally drinks and it has calories. I'm going to broach it with him tonight. It would be a simple change.

Yeah but right now ds' fingers are REALLY thin. If he got sick and lost more weight (which I agree happens), that would be too thin.

Make your own version of In-N-Out Burger milkshakes 😉

https://www.in-n-out.com/menu/nutrition-info

“CHOCOLATE SHAKE

Serving Size (g) 15 oz.

Total Calories 580

Calories from Fat (g) 250

Total Fat (g) 28

Saturated Fat 18

Trans Fat (g) 1

Cholesterol (mg) 110

Sodium (mg) 400

Total Carbohydrates (g) 84

Dietary Fiber (g) <1

Sugars (g) 65

Protein (g) 10”

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, BeachGal said:

My bil got vaxed just to go cruising. He’s all set and already has at least one lined up. He’s old and crotchety and no longer likes the regular cruises. He’s more into the repositioning cruises and other oddball ones — like travelling down the Red Sea where they had to turn off the lights some nights while being escorted by the British Navy, I think it was. Doesn't that sound like a “fun” time?! 😆

Oh totally. 

 

1 hour ago, maize said:

OR the kid may actually not be eating enough for a growing adolescent. 

Too few calories cause serious health problems much more quickly than do too many, and this is a kid with diagnosed eating difficulties.

We live in a society obsessed with thin-ness; that makes it easy to minimize the potential for problems caused by under-eating.

It sounds to me like mom has good reason to be concerned and paying attention.

Yeah, I was working on a grocery list tonight. Our grocery store does have the protein powder, but I think I'll start with the turkey sausages. The protein is the same (3 links vs. 2 scoops) but it has fat (always good) and will probably have better compliance. If I alternate turkey bacon and turkey sausage offerings, he'll be a happy boy. 

I found a nesquick strawberry *powder* that at least doesn't have corn syrup. It's sugar, but that wouldn't kill him. I'm going to offer it as a way to make drinking milk at meals more fun. I don't know why I always serve water at meals. Like you say, we're obsessed with thinness, sigh. I grew up with milk at meals but here I don't do it for him. I think it's just a logical way to get in some extra calories, which I think could be kind of protective. The SLP who diagnosed his eating issues said straight he was drinking water to get his food down. I just, well I don't know why I didn't pursue this or figure it out. I think it didn't seem as pressing as right now. He's 45% discrepant and I don't want him more discrepant than that. Reality is losing more weight is losing muscle at this point because he's really thin. 

And yes, he is hungry. He goes into the pantry and just looks for stuff. (crackers, anything) We got kinda whammed with the appliance and it threw off some of our other tricks. We used to do a lot with nut butters on celery, nutella, etc. They were dependable ways to get a chunk of calories and fat into him and now he can't do that. So yeah, if you do the math he has LOST FOODS and he's trying to grow.  

I'm excited to offer him the sausage links. He likes the organic waffles, and they'd be super yum with links, hehe. He also likes frozen hashbrowns and hasn't had those in a while. Sometimes he just gets bored with foods and rotates. 

The coconut flakes are a winner too. They're something I keep on hand and he was eating them straight out of the bag like potato chips. Definite winner there. And I'm going to look for some nut butters to add to cookies. He's really not huge on peanut butter, but I can spring for cashew or something and see what happens. And I can add some nuts to cookies. The problem with the cookies is I EAT them. Like crazy eat them. And it's not funny because I need to lose weight! 

Maybe what I need to do is buy him some kind of cookie that I won't be tempted to eat, something I can portion out. He won't eat fig newtons or anything like that. (probably a sensory thing) I could scratch my head. But yeah, if I bake cookies it's like 12 later for me and good bye weight loss for the week, lol. 

36 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Make your own version of In-N-Out Burger milkshakes 😉

https://www.in-n-out.com/menu/nutrition-info

“CHOCOLATE SHAKE

LOL that's got a lot of saturated fat, wow! I'll bet they're delish. 

[PeterPan]

I'm thinking if I could make him a kind of orthodontics friendly trail mix. Coconut, white chocolate, I don't know. He's not really into tropical. If the nuts were already in pieces he could eat them. 

[PeterPan]

I found a granola that has coconut, dates, cashews, and of course oats. So I'm thinking I could do a trail mix with date pieces (small shouldn't mess with his orthodontic wires) and cashew pieces and the flaked coconut. Then just pick a cereal/grain maybe to round it out like chex mix. Throw in some white chips. That would be lots of dense calories, good munching, all relatively healthy stuff. 

[Arcadia]

28 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

LOL that's got a lot of saturated fat, wow! I'll bet they're delish. 

That and lots of ice-cream helped me gain about 10lbs when my starting weight was 95lbs. At that time, my oncologist just want me to gain some weight even if it is eating junk food. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Arcadia

[Laura Corin]

For what it's worth, I tried all kinds of things to put weight on 'Calvin', who was always off the bottom of the charts for weight and near the top for height.  Nothing worked: the more of one kind of food I pushed the less of another kind of food got eaten.  If the appetite isn't there, then there's not really a lot you can do.

A checkup with the doctor seems wise, but otherwise I'd not worry.  Calvin put on a bit of weight at university but is now losing it again.

[Katy]

6 hours ago, maize said:

OR the kid may actually not be eating enough for a growing adolescent. 

Too few calories cause serious health problems much more quickly than do too many, and this is a kid with diagnosed eating difficulties.

We live in a society obsessed with thin-ness; that makes it easy to minimize the potential for problems caused by under-eating.

It sounds to me like mom has good reason to be concerned and paying attention.

He’s at 50th percentile for weight and lost 4 pounds after dental work and eating more potassium.  That’s borderline obsessive, and a pediatrician would tell her to calm because he’s roughly at the same place on a chart he’s always been.

[MEmama]

11 hours ago, Harpymom said:

Weight loss, excessive thirst, up to drink water or urinate at night or wetting the bed?  Type 1 diabetes has all of these.  My type 1 dd never had any breath smell - it's a late sign.  If he's up at night, please please take him to the doc to rule it out.  I'm sorry to sound naggy.  

A couple of years ago DH was diagnosed with diabetes—we literally spent our 25th anniversary in the emergency room as nurses tried to get his sugars up. We had NO idea, but later we realized he had been displaying all the symptoms listed above. They had been easy to explain—he was running a ton to train up for a multi day race, thus the weight loss. It was hot, and he was exercising extra, hence the water. He was up a few times a night but so am I—for the first time since I had DS, DH finally got to experience the reality of needing the bathroom so frequently. To me, it was nice to finally be believed, and since it’s been my reality for so long I didn’t think anything of it. 

His diabetes isn’t diet related nor genetic, though it does run in his family. His was a result of a severe case of pancreatitis courtesy of a medication he had been on, so it was a long and twisty road for him to get to this new reality. And explains why it wasn’t on our radar at all— he’s not a typical candidate, and it’s not a typical case (it’s neither 1 nor 2). 
 

All that to say…while your sons weight doesn’t sound abnormal in of itself (my DS was nowhere near 100 at 5’5 and 12yo), combined with some of the other things he explaining would definitely have me making an appointment with his ped to ensure nothing else is going on. I’d make sure to insist on getting him tested for diabetes—it might not be on the doctors radar and you definitely don’t want the possibility to be overlooked.

Edited July 23, 2021 by MEmama

[maize]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

He’s at 50th percentile for weight and lost 4 pounds after dental work and eating more potassium.  That’s borderline obsessive, and a pediatrician would tell her to calm because he’s roughly at the same place on a chart he’s always been.

He's not at the 50th percentile for his height. Closer to 18th percentile according to this BMI percentile by age calculator (I wasn't sure of age so used 13):

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/bmi/calculator.html

In any case starvation symptoms actually can occur in people at any weight and all parents should pay attention when a growing child is losing weight. 

Again, this is a kid with known eating difficulties. Mom is responding appropriately by looking for calorie-dense foods.

[Katy]

42 minutes ago, maize said:

He's not at the 50th percentile for his height. Closer to 18th percentile according to this BMI percentile by age calculator (I wasn't sure of age so used 13):

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/bmi/calculator.html

In any case starvation symptoms actually can occur in people at any weight and all parents should pay attention when a growing child is losing weight. 

Again, this is a kid with known eating difficulties. Mom is responding appropriately by looking for calorie-dense foods.

If he's always been at that spot on the height and weight charts that's what's normal for him. He's at the same spot on the charts as he's always been. Doctors don't care if a kid at 50th percentile who has always been at the same spot on the chart loses 4 pounds of water weight after having some dental work and eating extra potassium. That's a normal fluctuation.  This obsession is the sort of thing that doctors complain about in a nurses lounge. It doesn't start to matter until you've lost more than 10% unless you already have an eating disorder and are being treated as an inpatient.

This has nothing to do with his ASD or his diagnosed problems.  The only reason she's even tracking is to see if he will be heavy enough for ziplining in six months.  Instead of adding fat and salt she added beans, and in any case many studies have shown force feeding does not make people at their set points gain weight.  They just get less hungry the next day. There is no question that force feeding a healthy kid can cause problems though.

[PeterPan]

50 minutes ago, maize said:

He's not at the 50th percentile for his height. Closer to 18th percentile according to this BMI percentile by age calculator (I wasn't sure of age so used 13):

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/bmi/calculator.html

 

Ok, I put his data in and with the weight loss the last two wees his current BMI is 16.6, which puts him at the 21st percentile. That explains why he seems so thin to me as a mother, because his mix on his frame actually is objectively really thin, not in the middle. His weight has usually been 25th to 50th percentile and his height usually 50th to 75th. ie. there's usually been some proportionality.

52 minutes ago, maize said:

In any case starvation symptoms actually can occur in people at any weight and all parents should pay attention when a growing child is losing weight. 

Yes, this is why I'm concerned. I'm having trouble getting food choices that fit the parameters for the normal stuff (no/limited dairy) AND the orthodontics. It's not acceptable for him to be hungry. I have a pretty good list and am getting ready to hit the store. I think it was VERY good advice to offer but not push. As long as the food is available, he's fine. But if he can't find foods he feels like he can eat and he's going to bed hungry, that's not cool. And we're getting to that point each night where he's having trouble, which is not good enough. 

[PeterPan]

8 minutes ago, Katy said:

This has nothing to do with his ASD or his diagnosed problems.  The only reason she's even tracking is to see if he will be heavy enough for ziplining in six months.  Instead of adding fat and salt she added beans, and in any case many studies have shown force feeding does not make people at their set points gain weight.  They just get less hungry the next day. There is no question that force feeding a healthy kid can cause problems though.

It's both. I'm concerned because he actually is objectively hungry at night. He's spending time in the pantry aggravated. But I also had what I hadn't realized could be a problem started mentioning the hey if you gained weight thing, and I agree that's not good. As a female, I think I was weight aware about being chilled with women and not with guys. The more I thought about it, the more I realized I knew other stories of teen guys who had fretted their weight/frames and just needed time.

So it's BOTH. I'm getting him more food access AND I'm dropping the discussion of gaining weight. Food access without pressure and just letting it all balance out.

Edited July 23, 2021 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

Oh THIS  is interesting. I have weight data on his growth chart from 5 months ago, so I entered that into the BMI calculator. His BMI at that point (which again is just a snapshot) was 16.8 and the 28%ile. (compared to his current BMI that is almost the same and 21%ile) And I have some data from 5 years ago (just for a really different extrapolation, where his apraxia and chewing fatigue were even more in play) and his BMI was 14.6 which was, drum roll, the 21%ile.

I will make sure he has more food that works for him so he's not hungry, but it looks like a very low BMI percentile is pretty normal for him after a growth spurt. I could put in more data, but it's probably going to be pretty similar. I had no clue he was so low on the BMI percentiles. I mean, I knew he was trim (basically a size smaller in the waist than length for pants), but I didn't realize it was so low. 

I think increasing his food availability without pressure will be good enough. He knows how to sense hunger and he senses fulness. I do think I'm going to offer the almond milk with meals as an option, because I think he may like that. He's filling for volume, not calories, because then he comes back in 15 minutes and eats again. And it's the volume from the water he's drinking. Almond milk would accomplish the same thing but give him calories. And considering he gets to 11pm and says he's hungry (even when at repeatedly throughout the evening, like with a MILKSHAKE YESTERDAY), more calories could help.

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

. But if he can't find foods he feels like he can eat and he's going to bed hungry, that's not cool. And we're getting to that point each night where he's having trouble, which is not good enough. 

DS16 has always been that way. He rather be hungry. Thankfully the grocer is a short walk away. Our fridge at one point was dominated by cheese and milk. His weight yo-yo on growth spurts and he eats more.
If you want to up the protein as well, my teens will drink silk brand chocolate almond & cashew milk 10g protein.

https://silk.com/plant-based-products/plant-based-protein-beverages/chocolate-protein/

 

[PeterPan]

7 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

If you want to up the protein as well, my teens will drink silk brand chocolate almond & cashew milk 10g protein.

Ooo I will put that on the list! I've been researching how to make tapioca pudding with coconut milk. I don't think our store carries the normal pearls, so I have to order them. But yeah, almond cashew milk might be really good. That protein sounds crazy good. I have to be *careful* on the chocolate because it messes with his mood. 

[PeterPan]

He really liked the idea of a coconut/date/white chocolate/whatever kind of trail mix, so that's likely to be a winner too.

[PeterPan]

11 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

almond & cashew milk 10g protein.

Ok you have BLOWN MY MIND. This is a way better product!!! The almond milk has only 30 calories natively because it has almost no nutrition. This is way more potent, wow. Have you tried cashew milk straight? I'll bridge with this, but wow definitely something we need to try.

Oh I see, they're adding the pea protein to get the protein up. That's fine. He needs more oomph and it's in there. Perfect, great suggestion!

Edited July 23, 2021 by PeterPan

[Arcadia]

4 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

. That protein sounds crazy good. I have to be *careful* on the chocolate because it messes with his mood. 

Non-chocolate version. I have tried it and has used it for coffee latte as well.  https://silk.com/plant-based-products/plant-based-protein-beverages/original-protein/

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

Ok you have BLOWN MY MIND. This is a way better product!!! The almond milk has only 30 calories natively because it has almost no nutrition. This is way more potent, wow. Have you tried cashew milk straight? I'll bridge with this, but wow definitely something we need to try.

I have tried this one as well

https://silk.com/plant-based-products/plant-based-protein-beverages/silk-ultra/ultra-original/

“Silk® Ultra Original Plant-Based Protein Drink is here for you, with 20 grams of complete plant-based protein per serving”

I have tried their  cashew milk (https://silk.com/plant-based-products/cashewmilk/unsweetened-cashewmilk/) but my doctor’s concern is protein and iron, as well as my weight so I went for their protein drinks.

[Condessa]

Those numbers don’t look concerning at all, but If you need it, here’s what the dietitian suggested for our son who will just eat less at the next meal if encouraged to eat more calories:  Try substitutions that will get a few more calories into a meal without feeling like he is eating more or having to take any more bites.  If you would cook something in a little olive oil regularly, use bacon fat.  If he’s having a sandwich, spread a little butter on the bread first, before putting in whatever you normally would.  Add a little cream to his whole milk.  Etc.  It has worked out.  No big or quick changes, but his weight has crept back up where it was pre-surgery last October.

[PeterPan]

51 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Non-chocolate version. I have tried it and has used it for coffee latte as well.  https://silk.com/plant-based-products/plant-based-protein-beverages/original-protein/

I have tried this one as well

https://silk.com/plant-based-products/plant-based-protein-beverages/silk-ultra/ultra-original/

“Silk® Ultra Original Plant-Based Protein Drink is here for you, with 20 grams of complete plant-based protein per serving”

I have tried their  cashew milk (https://silk.com/plant-based-products/cashewmilk/unsweetened-cashewmilk/) but my doctor’s concern is protein and iron, as well as my weight so I went for their protein drinks.

You have expanded my world!   I was probably seeing this stuff and walking right on by, not realizing what I was seeing. This may take a trip to the big city.

4 minutes ago, Condessa said:

 here’s what the dietitian suggested for our son who will just eat less at the next meal if encouraged to eat more calories:  Try substitutions that will get a few more calories into a meal without feeling like he is eating more or having to take any more bites.  If you would cook something in a little olive oil regularly, use bacon fat.  If he’s having a sandwich, spread a little butter on the bread first, before putting in whatever you normally would.  Add a little cream to his whole milk.  Etc.  It has worked out.  No big or quick changes, but his weight has crept back up where it was pre-surgery last October.

Interesting! And yeah, that's kinda why I was thinking a small change like the water at meals to some kind of milk would add up. Cream, butter, etc. are all cow's milk. He ate half a carton (so 2 cups) cottage cheese yesterday when he got hungry and he was really grumpy yesterday evening and then today. I can't deal with the behaviors that come from him on dairy, sigh. No/minimal dairy and he's fine. 

Well I need to hit the store. I ended up staying to supervise tele sessions. I'm trying to convince him to go with me, but he's not biting, lol. I thought you know hit the store together, find things that interest you. Nope.