Feeling inadequate. SAT practice test cold?

[cintinative]

I had read that it was best to have student take both an ACT and SAT practice test to determine which they might score better on, and then prep for the preferred test. I had hoped to have my son (finishing his freshman year) take one tomorrow. Based on reading about the tests himself, and doing one of those surveys, he is currently leaning toward SAT.

Is it a mistake for me to test him cold (no prep) tomorrow?  I know there aren't as many SAT practice tests available--it looks like there are 10 on the CB site.  

I guess if he does "well" on it, that we can just pursue studying for the SAT? Or should we still do the practice ACT? 

I am just feeling so unsure whereas before I felt like I knew what to do next. It's also nearly the end of the school year so I think I am feeling tired. 

Help? Thanks everyone.

[Dmmetler]

I'd try it. Since it's a practice test, there is literally no cost to doing so. And FWIW, every single test practice book will also have practice tests, so you won't run out. 

[Alicia64]

I think you're seriously on the ball!

My two -- 18 now -- both really loved The Kahn Academy for their official practice tests and just studying for the SAT in general.

They also both raved about this prep book.

I'd bought another book too that they didn't think much of.

We haven't gotten their scores back yet, but they seemed very confident that the SAT was totally doable.

I hope that helps!

[lewelma]

What is great about taking it cold, is that there is more room to improve and watch your numbers go up. This can be very motivating.

[Arcadia]

4 hours ago, cintinative said:

I guess if he does "well" on it, that we can just pursue studying for the SAT? Or should we still do the practice ACT? 

I am just feeling so unsure whereas before I felt like I knew what to do next.

I would still do both. My oldest had a higher English score for ACT than SAT, both taken cold. His composite ACT score was also higher than his composite SAT score. His English is his weakest subject (other than history). 

My husband is more anxious than our kids.

[Miss Tick]

4 hours ago, Alicia64 said:

They also both raved about this prep book.

Can you tell me more about what they liked about the book? My twins are using Khan Academy, but I've thought that perhaps they should consider diversifying their efforts. It would be helpful if I could add a reason why they might like the paper prep book in addition to what they are currently (and a bit reluctantly) doing.

[Farrar]

4 hours ago, SusanC said:

Can you tell me more about what they liked about the book? My twins are using Khan Academy, but I've thought that perhaps they should consider diversifying their efforts. It would be helpful if I could add a reason why they might like the paper prep book in addition to what they are currently (and a bit reluctantly) doing.

I've heard good things about that one, but haven't used it. But prep books in general are useful because they explicitly teach strategies. So, if a kid is taking the online practice and improving and learning from reading the why they got the answer wrong things, then that's often enough. But sometimes it's useful for them to hear an analysis and breakdown of specific ways to approach questions. In this vein, the Erica Meltzer books are really good for the English sections.

Cintinative, I agree to take both and see. You really never know until you've done it. That's the other reason to do it cold. It shows you which one you have more raw potential with.

[freesia]

I agree with everything said above and with that prep book.  I have given each of my three oldest the SAT cold.  I only tried the ACT cold with my oldest. If they do well enough on the cold run, you can stick with what you do first.

[Roadrunner]

I am always puzzled how many people prefer ACT. It seems to me to be a more punishing exam - fast, has a bizarre science section, math is more advanced. SAT seems so much simpler- no time pressure, low level math, better written English questions. 
We are just getting started on looking at this test seriously, but I am amused. 

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

I am always puzzled how many people prefer ACT. It seems to me to be a more punishing exam - fast, has a bizarre science section, math is more advanced. SAT seems so much simpler- no time pressure, low level math, better written English questions. 
We are just getting started on looking at this test seriously, but I am amused. 

The science section is basically a reading section. So if a student has some rudimentary science knowledge and reading sections are their "thing" then it can be a big bonus for them. It's like the SAT is math+reading+writing. But the ACT is math+reading+writing+more reading that just happens to be about science and have more graphs. 

[Roadrunner]

52 minutes ago, Farrar said:

The science section is basically a reading section. So if a student has some rudimentary science knowledge and reading sections are their "thing" then it can be a big bonus for them. It's like the SAT is math+reading+writing. But the ACT is math+reading+writing+more reading that just happens to be about science and have more graphs. 

So you are saying people are going for ACT to just avoid math? Because the speed on English and Science sections seems unrelenting. SAT at least gives you time to think. 
I don’t know. I printed ACT and asked my boy to look at it. He worked through 1/3 of the reading and said forget it. Weird questions. He says SAT questions at least make sense. 
Yet a family after family after family prefers ACT. 
Maybe my kid is weird. 

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I am always puzzled how many people prefer ACT. It seems to me to be a more punishing exam - fast, has a bizarre science section, math is more advanced. SAT seems so much simpler- no time pressure, low level math, better written English questions. 
We are just getting started on looking at this test seriously, but I am amused. 

I thought from reading about both tests that the SAT would clearly be better for my dc. She took it her junior year and did okay. Then I read something different about the ACT that made me second-guess our decision and I had her take a practice one cold, and she scored much better. She did no other prep except that practice test (only doing a section at a time, spread over two weeks), and scored well on the ACT. So, it’s definitely a thing for some kids. (Don’t quote: 1310 SAT vs 33 ACT)

Edited May 18, 2021 by KSera

[Roadrunner]

Wow. 
@KSera may I ask which section made a difference? 
 

Makes me wonder if it’s worth looking into ACT.

 

[KSera]

9 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Wow. 
@KSera may I ask which section made a difference? 
 

Makes me wonder if it’s worth looking into ACT.

 

She’s an extremely fast reader with high comprehension skills and strong science, but very slow on the math section. The math section made all the difference. I just realized I made a mistake on the SAT score. It must have been 1310, because she had a 790 on the English, and 500-something on the math, I think 520. 1240 might have been her PSAT.  In any case, still a big difference between the two tests. For someone who has math as their strongest subject, I would think SAT would likely be better. 

[Roadrunner]

@KSera would you say SAT English section is easier than the ACT one for a kid weaker in verbal?

[KSera]

Just now, Roadrunner said:

@KSera would you say SAT English section is easier than the ACT one for a kid weaker in verbal?

It seems like the time pressure is higher on the ACT. I think the questions are comparable, but the ACT requires faster reading ability. 

[Samantheia]

3 hours ago, KSera said:

She’s an extremely fast reader with high comprehension skills and strong science, but very slow on the math section.

This is exactly my kid too, and he scored highly on the ACT taking it cold as a 7th grader. I was wondering if he should try the SAT now that he's in high school for the "easier math", but maybe it's easier for speed readers to have a higher composite score on the ACT.

[MamaSprout]

My dd had a much higher score on her 8th grade ACT Reading section than her early 10th grade SAT Reading section. But she's kind of an inconsistent tester sometimes. She's retaking the SAT in June, but if she's not happy with her score, we'll look at the ACT again. The science section is what brought down her overall score for the ACT back then. She can put together a pretty good super score between the two, though, lol.

Edited May 18, 2021 by MamaSprout

[Farrar]

6 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

So you are saying people are going for ACT to just avoid math? Because the speed on English and Science sections seems unrelenting. SAT at least gives you time to think. 
I don’t know. I printed ACT and asked my boy to look at it. He worked through 1/3 of the reading and said forget it. Weird questions. He says SAT questions at least make sense. 
Yet a family after family after family prefers ACT. 
Maybe my kid is weird. 

Kids can’t avoid the math, but if someone scores equally well on SAT and ACT math but score better on reading sections in general then they may get a boost on the ACT from that.

Of course, the style of the questions is very slightly different, so sometimes one or the other jibes with the kid better. 
 

I think most students do better on the SAT. But sometimes a family gets it in their head that one test is preferable and refuses to waiver.

[mlktwins]

This is probably a silly question -- so sorry.  I am considering this (taking it cold) for mine in August, which will also help prep them for the 11th grade PSAT/NMSQT???

Will it matter to colleges if they see a less than stellar score on an SAT exam, even if it is to get their feet wet and see their weak points?  Mine are rising 11th graders and they plan to take it more than once. 

[Dmmetler]

9 hours ago, Farrar said:

The science section is basically a reading section. So if a student has some rudimentary science knowledge and reading sections are their "thing" then it can be a big bonus for them. It's like the SAT is math+reading+writing. But the ACT is math+reading+writing+more reading that just happens to be about science and have more graphs. 

It honestly is sometimes better to have less science knowledge. My teen has had trouble at times on the science questions when none of the answers actually match the data given, when someone who was less aware would have likely picked the intended answer and missed the nuance. 

 

And then there was the passage from a paper that we had in a journal at home, except that the conclusions were exactly opposite what the question was intending to ask. Fortunately, that one was on a practice test (I had L take an ACT boot camp at one point so S had an excuse to take it. Her step dad felt it was a waste of time since she was going to fail anyway, so I signed both kids up, and told step dad it was because I needed S to be there to supervise L)-the instructor said it was the first time she had ever had a kid who actually knew the original research. I may be the only person who prayed for no questions about their teen's greatest interest, because I knew if there were, the science questions was going to stop at that point. 

[Dmmetler]

2 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

This is probably a silly question -- so sorry.  I am considering this (taking it cold) for mine in August, which will also help prep them for the 11th grade PSAT/NMSQT???

Will it matter to colleges if they see a less than stellar score on an SAT exam, even if it is to get their feet wet and see their weak points?  Mine are rising 11th graders and they plan to take it more than once. 

After the last year I am definitely in favor of doing an early SAT/ACT. My teen ended up applying for colleges with 8th grade scores, and then we finally were able to get an SAT to update them in early November. Had we not had those early scores, we would have been between a rock and a hard place with quite a few schools, since test optional usually doesn't include homeschoolers. 

 

[skimomma]

Access is another issue.  We have little access to the SAT in our area so we really had no choice.  The SAT is issued during the school day at our local schools and homeschoolers are not allowed.  We had the option on traveling 2+ hours for the SAT or taking the ACT locally.  I figured the stress of traveling would outweigh any benefit the SAT had over the ACT for my dd.  Therefore we did not even bother with considering the SAT.  Dd took the ACT cold and thankfully got the score she needed, one and done, so I am probably a bad person to ask about prep!  I only mention that in case the OP does not know what access they might have to both tests in their area.

[cintinative]

36 minutes ago, skimomma said:

Access is another issue.  We have little access to the SAT in our area so we really had no choice.  The SAT is issued during the school day at our local schools and homeschoolers are not allowed.  We had the option on traveling 2+ hours for the SAT or taking the ACT locally.  I figured the stress of traveling would outweigh any benefit the SAT had over the ACT for my dd.  Therefore we did not even bother with considering the SAT.  Dd took the ACT cold and thankfully got the score she needed, one and done, so I am probably a bad person to ask about prep!  I only mention that in case the OP does not know what access they might have to both tests in their area.

I think this is a driving factor here. You can take the ACT free here (offered once per year) through the public schools. I think (?) you have to jump through a few more hoops to get the SAT. At the very least, it is not free. Of course, everything has been upside down during the pandemic. I am speaking in terms of pre-pandemic "normals."

I guess I will have to try the ACT cold with him also--I will wait a bit first to let him recover from this practice SAT. 😃 

Where we are, if you want to do dual enrollment you either have to take that college's placement or submit an SAT or ACT score. The score to qualify is not outrageous.  So @mlktwins if that is true where you are, there may be another reason to take the SAT other than just prep for the PSAT.  

[cintinative]

So, tangential question--I noticed today that my oldest tends to talk to himself when he is testing. How do I get him to stop? I assume the SAT proctors will frown upon a kid whispering "fudge" to himself or sighing during the test.  

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, mlktwins said:

This is probably a silly question -- so sorry.  I am considering this (taking it cold) for mine in August, which will also help prep them for the 11th grade PSAT/NMSQT???

Will it matter to colleges if they see a less than stellar score on an SAT exam, even if it is to get their feet wet and see their weak points?  Mine are rising 11th graders and they plan to take it more than once. 

Well, no schools look at the PSAT at all. So except for this year at the colleges that were so desperate for scores from anything that they'd probably take your kid's results on a Cosmo quiz, schools never ever see the PSAT. As for the SAT, you generally control your scores. But... some colleges do ask for official score reports of the whole thing, but that's getting less and less common. Most schools allow students to self-report, and the majority now superscore, I think. Not to mention that the majority of schools are now test optional and a bunch of them are test blind. 

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

It honestly is sometimes better to have less science knowledge. My teen has had trouble at times on the science questions when none of the answers actually match the data given, when someone who was less aware would have likely picked the intended answer and missed the nuance. 

 

And then there was the passage from a paper that we had in a journal at home, except that the conclusions were exactly opposite what the question was intending to ask. Fortunately, that one was on a practice test (I had L take an ACT boot camp at one point so S had an excuse to take it. Her step dad felt it was a waste of time since she was going to fail anyway, so I signed both kids up, and told step dad it was because I needed S to be there to supervise L)-the instructor said it was the first time she had ever had a kid who actually knew the original research. I may be the only person who prayed for no questions about their teen's greatest interest, because I knew if there were, the science questions was going to stop at that point. 

We had a somewhat relatable experience. Mine was trying to prove how  illogical ACT answers were in a passage. Same with questions. 
With SAT so far, there is no such reaction. 

I guess I have an SAT kid. We shall see in August 😂

[Arcadia]

23 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, tangential question--I noticed today that my oldest tends to talk to himself when he is testing. How do I get him to stop? I assume the SAT proctors will frown upon a kid whispering "fudge" to himself or sighing during the test.  

DS15 used to talk to himself while doing homework in elementary school which disturbs DS16. We had to remind him to not talk. However in an exam room with 25 kids or the auditorium with more than 50 kids, he got into exam mode and was totally silent.

[cintinative]

So, real-time update: he didn't finish either math section, but he did better than I thought he would considering we have only covered through geometry. I told him we hadn't covered some things yet, and that he would later learn some tips to shave down the time per problem so he could finish. 

I want to be encouraged by his practice test score.  

[Alicia64]

21 hours ago, SusanC said:

Can you tell me more about what they liked about the book? My twins are using Khan Academy, but I've thought that perhaps they should consider diversifying their efforts. It would be helpful if I could add a reason why they might like the paper prep book in addition to what they are currently (and a bit reluctantly) doing.

This is the most I could get out of one: the black SAT prep book "is very comprehensive. It's divided into sections that are easy to use. It just has everything." And a friend who's taken the SAT agrees that it has everything.)

I hope this helps!

Edited to add: I spoke w/ my other son and he gave a much better summary of the book. 🙂

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Alicia64
Talked to a kid who really knows.

[Miss Tick]

5 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, real-time update: he didn't finish either math section, but he did better than I thought he would considering we have only covered through geometry. I told him we hadn't covered some things yet, and that he would later learn some tips to shave down the time per problem so he could finish. 

I want to be encouraged by his practice test score.  

That visceral recognition of the need for pacing, particularly on the math section, was the most valuable thing my two got out of the cold practice test. It was worth it here.

[Arcadia]

11 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So, real-time update: he didn't finish either math section, but he did better than I thought he would considering we have only covered through geometry. I told him we hadn't covered some things yet, and that he would later learn some tips to shave down the time per problem so he could finish. 

I want to be encouraged by his practice test score.  

How about the English sections? DS15 did the SAT twice, a few months apart, and did get much faster for the second time. He actually finished all sections on the 2nd time while he couldn’t finish any the 1st time. His score went up 250 to be above 1500. 
 

DS16 reads fast and he was able to complete the SAT with time to spare, while he has less time to spare with ACT and he was more exhausted by ACT.  I would say SAT feels like a marathon while ACT feels like the 400m dash. 

[cintinative]

13 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

How about the English sections? DS15 did the SAT twice, a few months apart, and did get much faster for the second time. He actually finished all sections on the 2nd time while he couldn’t finish any the 1st time. His score went up 250 to be above 1500. 
 

DS16 reads fast and he was able to complete the SAT with time to spare, while he has less time to spare with ACT and he was more exhausted by ACT.  I would say SAT feels like a marathon while ACT feels like the 400m dash. 

He finished both English sections early.  He performed better on the English than the math.  English 680 Math 600

I had him do one of those quiz things that tells you if ACT or SAT is a better fit, and it picked SAT. He is a fast worker, but based on my observation of him, I would have picked the SAT for him also based on their criteria. We'll see when he takes the ACT practice I guess?

[Roadrunner]

25 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

How about the English sections? DS15 did the SAT twice, a few months apart, and did get much faster for the second time. He actually finished all sections on the 2nd time while he couldn’t finish any the 1st time. His score went up 250 to be above 1500. 
 

DS16 reads fast and he was able to complete the SAT with time to spare, while he has less time to spare with ACT and he was more exhausted by ACT.  I would say SAT feels like a marathon while ACT feels like the 400m dash. 

If you already have the scores, why are you having them take it again? I was under the impression from the other thread that you were going to sign them up again. 
Is there a reason to do this exam again that I don’t know about? Like psat?

Edited May 18, 2021 by Roadrunner

[Arcadia]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

If you already have the scores, why are you having them take it again? 

6th grade scores. DS16 won’t take again unless suddenly there are many test centers open for 2021/22. DS15 is not in the test optional batch since he is in 10th grade. DS15 took twice in 6th grade. 

[Roadrunner]

5 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

6th grade scores. DS16 won’t take again unless suddenly there are many test centers open for 2021/22. DS15 is not in the test optional batch since he is in 10th grade. DS15 took twice in 6th grade. 

He scored over 1500 in 6th grade? Why on earth try again? 

[cintinative]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

He scored over 1500 in 6th grade? Why on earth try again? 

I was just coming on here to post @Arcadia that is an amazing score for 6th grade! I know we have some smart kids on here, but wow!

 

[Arcadia]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

He scored over 1500 in 6th grade? Why on earth try again? 

Colleges may not accept a 6th grade score by the time he applies for college next Fall. It was test optional for the current 12 graders and then it got extended to the 11th graders.

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

Colleges may not accept a 6th grade score by the time he applies for college next Fall. It was test optional for the current 12 graders and then it got extended to the 11th graders.

Really? 
I only  thought that was a thing for APs. Well, clearly we don’t have that problem here 😀

You just made a whole bunch of paranoid parents feel even more inadequate. Only partly joking here. 😋😆

[Arcadia]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

Really? 
I only  thought that was a thing for APs.

For SAT subject tests (thought now discontinued), SAT and ACT too. All up to the college admissions discretions.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2021/03/01/act-admits-test-optional-admissions-isnt-going-away

”In the full report, which ACT released to Inside Higher Ed, ACT estimated that half of four-year colleges were test optional before the pandemic, and that another 30 percent transitioned to test optional during the pandemic.

"Test-optional institutions are unlikely to return to test-required, although COVID-driven institutions note uncertainty in determining future policies," the report says. The key will be the first class being admitted now without required tests, it says.

"We, along with our faculty, are watching our results for this year closely," an unnamed public college admissions official says in the report. "We feel good, but we may balk at the results and go right back to requiring tests."

And the report notes that "many institutions have implemented test-optional policies without encountering significant pain points, particularly those that became test-optional prior to COVID-19."

An unnamed private college admissions official quoted in the report supported that view.

"We did years of research and went around to every group of stakeholders to build up consensus on campus," the official says. "Over time, we have found that you can still make selective admissions decisions and protect admission and yield profiles while being test-optional."

…

Robert Schaeffer, interim executive director of FairTest: National Center for Fair & Open Testing, said, "ACT's latest report accurately forecasts that a large majority of U.S. colleges and universities will remain ACT/SAT-optional for the foreseeable future."

He noted that FairTest research has determined that at least 1,360 four-year institutions "have already announced that they will not require fall 2022 applicants to submit standardized exam results before admissions decisions are made. As has always been the case, schools that experiment with test-optional admissions almost always keep the policy in place -- it is a win-win for schools and students."

There were 1,070 colleges that were test optional before the pandemic. Schaeffer said, "We can estimate that about half of the 660 institutions suspending the test over the past year have extended ACT/SAT-optional admissions for at least another year. Based on conversations with higher education leaders, we expect that number to grow significantly before the fall 2022 admissions season opens."“

[MamaSprout]

3 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

 I may be the only person who prayed for no questions about their teen's greatest interest, because I knew if there were, the science questions was going to stop at that point. 

Honestly? I think the area of interest is where my dd fell short on the last SAT she took. There was "previous obsession" topic on the Reading section of the last one she took.

[Arcadia]

19 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I was just coming on here to post @Arcadia that is an amazing score for 6th grade! 

 

13 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

You just made a whole bunch of paranoid parents feel even more inadequate. Only partly joking here. 

Test prep does work. Which was what the whole equity argument about standardized tests results is about. Though Khan Academy did try to even out on the test prep access portion. 

[EKS]

Whatever you do, make sure that your student takes the practice test under standard conditions.  There is a huge difference between doing the entire thing at once and divvying up the test over a period of days.

[Alicia64]

Okay, I bugged my other son.

Long story, short: one of my sons (they're 18) studied the SAT black book, took the SAT in mid-May, and we haven't received his score back yet.

He's planning on taking it again w/ his brother in early June.

This son said:

• "The book is written in a casual voice so it was not boring at all. Very easy to understand."
• The author did a really good job of summarizing the information.
• In the book there are three to four pages that say, "Every single one of these math concepts will be on the test."

Another SAT book I bought was -- according to this son -- "too dry."

I hope that helps!

[cintinative]

41 minutes ago, EKS said:

Whatever you do, make sure that your student takes the practice test under standard conditions.  There is a huge difference between doing the entire thing at once and divvying up the test over a period of days.

Yes, this is what we did. I tried to simulate the normal test conditions except we do have a cute, distracting dog.  😃 

 

[Not_a_Number]

16 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I am always puzzled how many people prefer ACT. It seems to me to be a more punishing exam - fast, has a bizarre science section, math is more advanced. SAT seems so much simpler- no time pressure, low level math, better written English questions. 
We are just getting started on looking at this test seriously, but I am amused. 

I thought ACT math looked much easier, from a brief perusal...

[Roadrunner]

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I thought ACT math looked much easier, from a brief perusal...

Math is a non issue here. He can take it sleeping and still not miss a question. English is where we need to focus on prepping. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Math is a non issue here. He can take it sleeping and still not miss a question. English is where we need to focus on prepping. 

Yeah, just answering the math part. I was surprised it’s supposed to be more advanced.

[Roadrunner]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, just answering the math part. I was surprised it’s supposed to be more advanced.

I was told ACT has precalculus and SAT doesn’t. But then somebody said SAT questions are harder even if concepts are easier? 
 

[Not_a_Number]

10 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I was told ACT has precalculus and SAT doesn’t. But then somebody said SAT questions are harder even if concepts are easier? 
 

I’d agree with the latter statement.