Honors/AP/whatever else-Which track

[alisha]

As I'm preparing for my oldest to enter 9th grade next year, I'm seeing all sorts of AP and Honors class questions on this board.

So, now I'm confused. What is the benefit of turning a class into one of those? I always thought my kid was basically average, do I need to urge him to try extra? How do I know which track to send him down? We don't plan on doing much online schooling, so won't be choosing classes with or without that in the titles. 

From my personal schooling background, I thought only a small percentage of students took those types of classes, however from what I'm seeing here, it seems like 75% of homeschoolers or more take these more rigorous classes. Am I missing something? We aren't planning on heading toward any Ivy League colleges or anything. 

Thoughts? Thanks!

[Lilaclady]

I think you have to educate the child you have in front of you. Some students are able and want to take AP's or DE vut others don't. There is no reason your child have to take AP if they dont want to. Soemtimes like in my state, the state colleges want to see some AP or DE to show rigor and sometimes require homeschoolers to have outside verification of grades to qualify for the state lottery funded scholarship. Dependng on your student's goals and what they are capable of, you can target ther education to them and not what everyone else is saying. 

[Kassia]

39 minutes ago, Lilaclady said:

I think you have to educate the child you have in front of you. Some students are able and want to take AP's or DE vut others don't. There is no reason your child have to take AP if they dont want to. Soemtimes like in my state, the state colleges want to see some AP or DE to show rigor and sometimes require homeschoolers to have outside verification of grades to qualify for the state lottery funded scholarship. Dependng on your student's goals and what they are capable of, you can target ther education to them and not what everyone else is saying. 

Perfectly stated.  🙂 

[cintinative]

hi! Average kids here! I actually think there are more of us than you might think.  There are a lot of high achieving kids represented here, but also plenty of the average and some with learning challenges.  

I do think there is more of a push to APs in the brick and mortar schools (there are some recent discussions on this in a thread about the discontinuation of the SAT subject tests).  It definitely has changed since I was in high school.  I am surprised by how many kids I know that take five or six APs. When I was in school that was only for the very high achieving kids.  I'm not the right person to speak to all the reasons for that.

[fourisenough]

I do think, in general, high school students are taking more honors/APs than in ‘my day’ but, this forum can be a bit misleading— we’re a self-selecting, academically-minded group. Three of mine were/are high-achievers and one is perfectly average. Teach the kid you have, not the one you wish you had...

[stripe]

And also, something doesn’t have to be extra-hard to be thoughtful, interesting, and relevant to your child. In other words, you can personalize your child’s education in other ways than making it hard. I don’t happen to call any of my classes “honors,” even those I have a high opinion of. 😉  I reserve this for other providers who do offer an honors class designation.

[Kassia]

48 minutes ago, stripe said:

And also, something doesn’t have to be extra-hard to be thoughtful, interesting, and relevant to your child. In other words, you can personalize your child’s education in other ways than making it hard. I don’t happen to call any of my classes “honors,” even those I have a high opinion of. 😉  I reserve this for other providers who do offer an honors class designation.

And certainly there are classes that are in ps or other schools or outsourced that are labeled as honors where there is little to no learning going on while other classes that are "regular" are excellent.  

 

[fourisenough]

13 minutes ago, Kassia said:

And certainly there are classes that are in ps or other schools or outsourced that are labeled as honors where there is little to no learning going on while other classes that are "regular" are excellent.  

 

This is an excellent point. I spent some time last weekend with my 9th grade twin niece/nephew who attend school in an affluent, ‘excellent’ PS district in the Midwest. These are very bright kids, one who is severely impacted by ADHD. It was so interesting hearing them talk about scheduling for next year, discussing which are the easiest APs, how her friend got an A in AP World history but learned nothing watching documentaries all year and isn’t going to take the exam because you only need to get an A in the class to get credit toward the highest diploma the school offers.
 

Basically the goal is: taking the most Honors & APs classes you can while still doing the least amount of work, with no concern for actually learning anything or scoring well on AP exams. This ethos seems to be promoted by their guidance counselor, parents, etc. It was kind of defeating hearing them talk. Hopefully they find their spark and develop some internal motivation. My 11th grade DD shared her ACT score (when directly asked) and they were gobsmacked. 

[mlktwins]

I think, for me, that I want to make sure there are some Honors, AP, DE designations on their transcripts so they aren't overshadowed by all the college applicants coming from my area.  My county, and neighboring counties, have AP Scholar (that is our base school), IB, Governor's School, The Cambridge Programme, Biotech & Engineering specialty programs, etc.  I'm in Northern Virginia and it is pretty competitive in my area.

And...like a PP said, a lot of colleges are looking for outside verification of grades.  So...that meant the one SAT Subject Test we got in last year as 9th graders so far.  But since those are now eliminated, I will need to focus more on AP and DE to get that outside validation.

I want to add that many here do not use Honors/AP/DE for their homeschool and their children get into great schools and go on to have great careers. I wish I didn't feel the need to do this, but I don't want to get through our high school years and have them miss opportunities because we didn't get some of these designations under their belts. 

I want to add that our Honors/AP designations have been/are/will be from outsourced providers.  Our at home classes so far are just regular classes.

 

[stripe]

I try to keep whatever the designated name is from the course provider, but I have advised my children to take the better course, try new things, and not be hung up on the grade. I have told them it’s better to learn more than just pad yourself with easy A’s. And I believe that. There is no realistic way to compete with the students with twenty APs and fifteen extra curriculars. And they are fighting over something my kids wouldn’t really be interested in. It is hard sometimes not to get swept up in the hyper competitive madness, though.

[Sherry in OH]

Something to consider: Students attending B&M schools are at the mercy of the school's course offerings.  Colleges and Universities are aware of this.  They compare the number of AP courses a student took with the number available at that student's school.  They also ask school counselors how the numbers of AP classes this student took compare to the number taken by other students at the school.    Thus a student who attends a school that offers no AP courses who self-studies for 1 or 2 AP tests will be viewed more favorably than a student who takes 3 or 4 AP courses at a school that offers 30 AP courses.   Earning high AP scores on a few AP tests is better than taking many AP classes but scoring poorly.  An AP class on the transcript with no test score to back up the claim is meaningless.     

Read Who Gets In and Why for some insights.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Sherry in OH
typo

[theelfqueen]

I use the honors designation when a) we use college texts in place of high school texts and cover them extensively or  b) I know the sequence exceeds what is offered in a comparable high school class (ie last year we did Ancient History, in addition to completing SWBs Ancient History text, writing, assignments, regular mapwork etc... we completed 3 Great Courses lecture series and a variety of larger projects)  or sometimes c) if we complete a high school level text that I know would have been used selectively in a high school classroom (ie we completed the whole.bio text with a higher than usual number of labs, when I know the standard sequence would cover 3/4 of text). 

We don't outsource regular classes (he has a Master Blacksmith, a certified flight instructor and a japanese tutor but I'm his English, Math, History and Science teacher) 

 I'm a high school history teacher by background - I'm a pretty good judge of what's honors level for HS history. I'm willing to use the honors designation - when my child with a non-standard transcript has to compete for scholarships and things against kids with for example weighted GPAs, I want to balance that. 

We have no interest in AP... but there will also be CLEP exams and DE on his transcripts later. 

Worked okay for Middle son, too. Though his transcript was more traditional. 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by theelfqueen

[klmama]

2 hours ago, fourisenough said:

Basically the goal is: taking the most Honors & APs classes you can while still doing the least amount of work, with no concern for actually learning anything or scoring well on AP exams. This ethos seems to be promoted by their guidance counselor, parents, etc. It was kind of defeating hearing them talk. Hopefully they find their spark and develop some internal motivation. My 11th grade DD shared her ACT score (when directly asked) and they were gobsmacked. 

This is what we've seen, too.  We have known a number of students from local high schools, where "everyone" takes AP and honors courses.  It seems to be extremely stress-producing for many of them, all about "achieving," but with little enjoyment for learning.  My current college senior had the exact same ACT composite score as several friends from different schools who all took many AP and honors courses; based on dc's ACT score and high GPA for "regular" coursework on the homeschool transcript, dc was accepted into the desired college and into the honors program there.  YMMV, of course.  FWIW, dc chose not to participate in the honors program in college; dc wasn't interested in jumping through the extra hoops, given the extra stress involved and the superior attitude of the honors students dc met.  It didn't limit dc's ability to participate in undergraduate research or to delve deeply into topics of interest.  

[alisha]

Wow, Thank you!! You all bring up such excellent points! All this information is SO helpful. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

[NittanyJen]

Just keep an open mind about what your kid wants, though it sounds like you are pretty in tune with that anyway. When I took AP courses, they were fun for me, even four at a time, and never stressful. I still have fond memories of some of them as some of the best classes I took. It’s worth avoiding generalizations 😉

However, I would agree they are not the only route to being college/life/career ready by any means, or even to standing out on a college application. One thing I see admissions officers writing about homeschooling is, “Homeschooling can be a great chance to customize your education. Tell me what you did to make your education uniquely yours.” That can take so many forms— and while it can certainly include AP and DE classes if they suit your kid’s interests, they are not the only way to customize things, either.

 

[BusyMom5]

I didn't designate any of my classes as Honors, but my oldest did a bunch of DE.  DE was a mixed bag, and I felt that my courses were often more in-depth and interesting.   If you aren't trying to get into really competitive schools,  I don't think it will matter.

[Momto6inIN]

My oldest did several APs, but that's because that's who he is as a person ... competitive and driven and academically minded. He also really wanted to get credit for certain courses so he didn't have to take them in college and would have time to take others that interested him more.

My 2nd didn't do any APs and still got a full tuition scholarship because he poured his heart and soul and time into other things that stood out in his college apps. Contentwise, he could have handled an AP course. But he would have wilted and crashed and burned under the pressure of the exams.

My 3rd *might* have 1 AP next year ... she's still debating whether or not she wants to do intensive test prep or just learn the material and forget about the exam.

The thing with APs is ... it is possible to learn all the info and be well educated about the subject matter/topic and still bomb the test because you don't do the test prep. Very often, the graders are looking for a very specific type of answer. So IME it does require some time and investment in test prep to learn how to "play the game" to get a good score. Some kids, like my oldest, consider that time prepping well spent. Others consider that time to be wasted because they could use that time on other things that advance their goals better. Both perspectives are valid, you just have to figure out which one your particular kid most identifies with.

[Aloha2U]

nm

Edited September 24, 2021 by Mom21