Facebook nonsense

[Shoeless]

2 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

@MissLemonis there a church or something that offers GED prep?  Right now ours is shut down, but normally there's a group that meets twice a week at our church.  I know at one point there was a homeschooled kid trying to finish, and I know it was weird for some of the church members who saw him and were naturally disinclined towards homeschoolers to reconcile what they saw there with my family.  My kids are sociable, do activities, and would work on advanced school work when I'd occasionally need to do some volunteer work at church during normal school hours.  Situations like what you describe, and also the kids who graduate from public schools with transcripts and diplomas but no skills and knowledge are so hard to deal with!   

There are community colleges nearby that offer classes, yes. After the initial phone call from the spouse, I wrote out detailed info on various programs, tests, etc in their area.  Judging by the silence I've gotten since emailing them, I don't think they liked my answers. 😕 

 

[lulalu]

Yes FB groups are always saying how easy and free everything can be. 

But I have found I can't engage with people there. It just doesn't lend itself to long conversation or getting to know who is commenting. 

I usually give short comments on fb too. 

I struggle with being the only person I know in real life that treats homeschooling as a job. And expects a lot from ds. We have family that homeschool and the oldest is doing math 2 years behind what her grade is, no language arts, and the family never reads. They have picture books, but not a lot. No chapter books for the 12 year old. My ds got books for Christmas, and this family's kids could not understand why he wanted books. It is so hard to be strict on technology use, and prioritize education, and have no one else around me who does. We work hard on learning languages, music, we love reading. But ds often feels so different from other people. 

[Shoeless]

11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Also... I assume the issue isn't just the credits, right?? I assume they might need to have some actual skills to go to college/get careers? 

Yes. Spouse and trusted adult seemed surprised to find out that the GED isn't easy. It's multiple tests and costs money. Likewise, the ASVAB isn't a cake walk. A GED and enlisting in the military is not a gimmie for people who can't get their act together for whatever reason.  It came as a surprise that the military can decline your application based on test scores. 

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, lulalu said:

But ds often feels so different from other people. 

Honestly, I worry about DD8 realizing that none of her friends have to work as hard as she does soon. She’s only 8, so it’s not like her life is drudgery. But we do a few hours of academic work a day, and those are NOT optional. A lot of her friends are very loosely schooled. 

I think she’s more likely to feel smugly superior than jealous, but that’s definitely not how I want her to feel about her friends!!

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Yes. Spouse and trusted adult seemed surprised to find out that the GED isn't easy. It's multiple tests and costs money. Likewise, the ASVAB isn't a cake walk. A GED and enlisting in the military is not a gimmie for people who can't get their act together for whatever reason.  It came as a surprise that the military can decline your application based on test scores. 

Wow. Because the military isn’t supposed to care about having competent personnel?? “Let’s hand weapons to everyone, it’ll be fiiine!”

[Shoeless]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Wow. Because the military isn’t supposed to care about having competent personnel?? “Let’s hand weapons to everyone, it’ll be fiiine!”

Yes, let's let these people that can't read or write be responsible for multi-million dollar nuclear submarines. What could possibly go wrong?

[mathnerd]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think she’s more likely to feel smugly superior than jealous, but that’s definitely not how I want her to feel about her friends!!

"Blending in" to fit in intellectually with friends because they don't want to be lonely or ostracized, abandoning their work ethic because they are superior in knowledge and accomplishments compared to peers and thereby not able to find motivation to push forward etc are common traits in gifted, advanced and accomplished kids. Those are some things that the parents need to watch out for and remediate by constantly raising the bar even when there is no outside validation for the milestones that a child achieves in a rigorous learning environment. I have a child for whom these could become huge problems and I have to be on high alert.

In my social circle, mostly, there are adults who have STEM backgrounds who got to where they did careerwise/economically because of their high levels of education and think that rigor is the most important aspect of education. So, there is competition rather than lax attitudes and there are many secretive moms who do not want to share their secrets to success!

[Not_a_Number]

31 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

"Blending in" to fit in intellectually with friends because they don't want to be lonely or ostracized, abandoning their work ethic because they are superior in knowledge and accomplishments compared to peers and thereby not able to find motivation to push forward etc are common traits in gifted, advanced and accomplished kids. Those are some things that the parents need to watch out for and remediate by constantly raising the bar even when there is no outside validation for the milestones that a child achieves in a rigorous learning environment. I have a child for whom these could become huge problems and I have to be on high alert.

Knowing DD8, that won't happen with her -- she's pretty immune to peer pressure, for better and worse. Now DD4, on the other hand, is both extremely bright and very sociable/interested in fitting in. I'd worry about her a lot more in this respect. 

[EKS]

10 hours ago, athena1277 said:

The thing that bugs me most is when people say you can do high school before lunch each day.

I used to think this.  And then I sent my kids to a b&m school (two, actually) and discovered that the efficiency of homeschooling really does make things take far less time.

That said, I wasn't interested in giving my kids the caliber of education they could get at the b&m schools around here (which are well regarded, btw), so our homeschool work was always far more dense.

Here is a comparison between the books my son read/used in all classes in his private 8th grade class and the books we used the next year (technically 7th grade but doing all high school level stuff).  Going to the private school full time took a total of about 10 hours per day and more on a bad homework night.  In our homeschool the next year we spent 5 hours tops and did maybe 5+ times more work.

ETA: I should mention that this is just the supplemental reading.  If I were to include all books used, the right hand pile would have also had textbooks for geometry and French.  The left hand pile would have textbooks for Algebra 2, German, history, and biology.

Edited January 2, 2021 by EKS

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, EKS said:

I used to think this.  And then I sent my kids to a b&m school (two, actually) and discovered that the efficiency of homeschooling really does make things take far less time.

I think that's more true if you're an expert in the things you're teaching, though. Like, I can teach math very efficiently because I can cut through the crap. If I was just following a curriculum and doing a set amount every day because I wasn't as good at gauging where we were, we'd get a lot less bang for our buck, I think. (And I do get less bang for my buck for things I'm NOT good at.) 

 

9 minutes ago, EKS said:

Here is a comparison between the books my son read/used in all classes in his private 8th grade class and the books we used the next year (technically 7th grade but doing all high school level stuff). 

Oh, man, the way kids are told to read books in school is just ridiculous. People are told to take MONTHS to read a book that takes a week to finish reading in a normal way. 

 

What length day do you think is reasonable when homeschooling high school, @EKS? 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[EKS]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

What length day do you think is reasonable when homeschooling high school, @EKS? 

It depends on your goals.  For people who want to mimic what is done in regular high school classes and who are willing to facilitate efficiency, you could do four hour days easily--probably less.  For those who want something more, it will take more time.  If I had homeschooled the younger one full time in high school, I would have targeted six hours as being the absolute maximum for any given day.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, EKS said:

It depends on your goals.  For people who want to mimic what is done in regular high school classes and who are willing to facilitate efficiency, you could do four hour days easily--probably less.  For those who want something more, it will take more time.  If I had homeschooled the younger one full time in high school, I would have targeted six hours as being the absolute maximum for any given day.

What is included in that time, out of curiosity? How intensive is it? 

I've sort of lost track of how many hours a day we do with DD8, because I don't even know what to count. We do about an hour and 15 minutes of math, then 15 minutes of cursive, then she watches cartoons for 45 minutes, then we do Russian conversation. I don't even know if to count the cartoons or not. And do I count us reading out loud? How about cooking together? 😛 

I'd say the "intense" stuff we do is math, Russian conversation, and then piano later in the day. (And some days she has things like Hebrew.) Everything else is more for fun. So if I add those up we get... I don't know, about 3 hours? But if I include every single thing on the schedule, it's much more. 

[theelfqueen]

My 15 year old does about 7 hours a day on Monday and Tuesday. He does  about 4 hours of academics on Wednesday and 4 hours at the forge. He does 4 hours at the airfield and  about 4 hours of academics on Thursday. He does 4 hours at the museum and 2-3 hours of academics on Friday. Aviation and Blacksmithing are his current electives.... during academics he does math (precalc), science (just finished a semester of meteorology, doing astronautics this semester with dad - an astronautical engineer), English, medieval history and Japanese 2. The Acadmics definitely involve Mom on hand, sometimes actually teaching... sometimes just monitoring to make sure stuff is happening. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by theelfqueen

[TravelingChris]

9 hours ago, Calm37 said:

Agreeing. Always been a problem. I have watched several young people make the effort to get into college. It is not easy when there are no high school records. I was very proud of one young friend studying and receiving her GED. Another studied what she needed to study in her late teens to be able to make up an acceptable transcript. Then she ambushed her mom in a group setting to get her to sign it. Very proud of those kids!

But others, very intelligent young people that I taught in co-op, are left drifting in retail jobs.

I am not sure what you mean by no high school records.  I kept much more minimal records than many moms in WTM and all three of my kids got into good colleges w good scholarships.  They had done college entrance testing and the younger two had at least one college level class before college too but I didn't keep records that dome moms on here do-  I did most of my records for s year or w the last one, for s semester, in one day st the end.

I hated recordkeeping but instead spent time actually teaching.

[EKS]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

What is included in that time, out of curiosity? How intensive is it? 

Very intense and mom-directed.  No breaks except for lunch.  When I wasn't actually teaching, I was always in the room making sure things were getting done.  That sort of thing.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

That, too. I don't know where to find good conversations anymore 😞 . I was hoping Facebook would be decent, but while there ARE academic people on Facebook, it's completely drowned out by people who are convinced that the solution is always "less school." Like, those are the top suggestions and they get the most likes. It's completely overwhelming. Struggling with math? Do less school, learn everything via games! Struggling with attitude issues? Do less school, kids learn through play anyway! 

At the risk of being totally tangential, I felt that way in an online forum (not here) when I had babies and toddlers because it seemed like the “answer” to everything was, “Maybe he’s teething?” or “He’s probably going through a growth spurt.” It was such useless advice for me because I was (and am) much more solution-oriented than that and I got sick to death of teething and growth spurts being the ready excuse for any frustrating issue I had. Baby won’t sleep? Must be his teeth. Toddler won’t go to anyone but mom? Must be a growth spurt. Preschooler refuses to get out of the bath without a melt-down? Oh, teeth again, for sure! 

It drove me so nuts I quit the forum I was on. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

At the risk of being totally tangential, I felt that way in an online forum (not here) when I had babies and toddlers because it seemed like the “answer” to everything was, “Maybe he’s teething?” or “He’s probably going through a growth spurt.” It was such useless advice for me because I was (and am) much more solution-oriented than that and I got sick to death of teething and growth spurts being the ready excuse for any frustrating issue I had. Baby won’t sleep? Must be his teeth. Toddler won’t go to anyone but mom? Must be a growth spurt. Preschooler refuses to get out of the bath without a melt-down? Oh, teeth again, for sure! 

It drove me so nuts I quit the forum I was on. 

OOOOOH I know just what you mean!! It's like people wanted a pass and a reason it wasn't their fault instead of actual troubleshooting. 

This stuff drove me absolutely nuts. Like, neither of my kids were at all bothered by their teething, but they sure were cranky if we weren't militant about their sleep schedule. I didn't need reassurance -- I needed someone to tell me how to deal with kids who were sensitive sleepers and slept under the amount recommended whatever I did, and whose sleeping hours needed to be guarded zealously as a result. 

Anyway, yes, I hate that approach in baby groups. It's ridiculous. 

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, EKS said:

Very intense and mom-directed.  No breaks except for lunch.  When I wasn't actually teaching, I was always in the room making sure things were getting done.  That sort of thing.

Ah OK. By that kind of definition, we have about 3 hours of academics per day, I think... 

... except that I'm currently staying out of the room when she does math, because she seems to be working better without me there 😞 . (Have I complained about that enough yet? 😛 I'm not done...) 

[Calm37]

5 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I am not sure what you mean by no high school records.  I kept much more minimal records than many moms in WTM and all three of my kids got into good colleges w good scholarships.  They had done college entrance testing and the younger two had at least one college level class before college too but I didn't keep records that dome moms on here do-  I did most of my records for s year or w the last one, for s semester, in one day st the end.

I hated recordkeeping but instead spent time actually teaching.

Hi Christina,

I meant that there was nothing written down at all. Also, because the students were not accountable for completing any work, they mostly didn't. I assume you must have had a transcript for each of your kids. That was all the records I kept for my own children. Class name, date completed, grade, credits awarded, etc. My homeschool planner software actually built the transcript for me.

[Clemsondana]

While high school is in some ways more regimented because you have to keep up with credits, even within a 'standard' set of classes there is variation.  Most places seem to require 24ish credits, so 6 a year.  That may be the number available at some schools - some have 6 periods a day, while others have 7 or 8.  My student has chosen to do 8 credits this year, so that's going to take more time.  But, kiddo did 2 different 1/2 credit classes over the summer.  We're also doing a class at co-op that will count towards fine arts hours for next fall - we'll have 1/2 of the 1/2 credit done at the end of the school year and will finish it up over the summer.  For classes that are just 'count the hours' students may accumulate hours over 2 years or more.  I know somebody who counted ski trip hours over a couple of years as their PE credit.  

There is also a lot of variation in how difficult you choose to make each class.  Teaching Textbooks and AoPS Geometry will both give you a geometry credit, but they'll have different time commitments.  We don't choose to make every single credit a rigorous as it could be.  This year we're finishing AoPS Adv. Algebra and doing AP Chemistry.  We chose to do a relaxed, discussion-with-a-few-papers version of the Government requirement.  I think we covered the material well and it was interesting, but it was not challenging.  And, part of the reason that I chose not to register an official AP syllabus is that, as best I can tell based on kids taking AP in public schools, there is a lot of busywork in AP.  We're focused on learning the material and will work on passing the test.  In middle school my kid did a fun year of physical science with a semester each doing Life of Fred chemistry and physics.  But, I'm sure there are people who use LOF chemistry as their non-rigorous high school chem class.  

Anyway, so far this year my 9th grader often does an hour or 2 most Sat and Sun to get ahead for the week.  Kid then tends to do a long day any day that doesn't have a sports practice.  A short day is maybe 4-5 hrs and a long one could be 10.  But, a long 10 hr day usually means that kid has decided to do 2 or 3 days worth of Latin and then read the week's literature assignment.  Co-op is on Thursday, and kid prefers to have the work for the 2 classes for credit mostly done on Tuesday so that if there's a problem it can be dealt with on Wednesday.  Most Wednesdays are short days.  So, maybe 6-7 hrs a day on average?  

Edited January 2, 2021 by Clemsondana

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

At the risk of being totally tangential, I felt that way in an online forum (not here) when I had babies and toddlers because it seemed like the “answer” to everything was, “Maybe he’s teething?” or “He’s probably going through a growth spurt.” It was such useless advice for me because I was (and am) much more solution-oriented than that and I got sick to death of teething and growth spurts being the ready excuse for any frustrating issue I had. Baby won’t sleep? Must be his teeth. Toddler won’t go to anyone but mom? Must be a growth spurt. Preschooler refuses to get out of the bath without a melt-down? Oh, teeth again, for sure! 

It drove me so nuts I quit the forum I was on. 

Growing pains are not real, was the consensus of the American Rheumatologists.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, TravelingChris said:

Growing pains are not real, was the consensus of the American Rheumatologists.

Last I checked, when they measured, teething also only bothers kids for just a few days as the tooth is erupting, and not for the months of crankiness that parents seem to blame teething for 😂.

[TravelingChris]

52 minutes ago, Calm37 said:

Hi Christina,

I meant that there was nothing written down at all. Also, because the students were not accountable for completing any work, they mostly didn't. I assume you must have had a transcript for each of your kids. That was all the records I kept for my own children. Class name, date completed, grade, credits awarded, etc. My homeschool planner software actually built the transcript for me.

Yes, U did have that. I just wasn't sure you were talking about detailed class plans for every day kind of thing.  I sure didn't do that.   But yes, transcripts and credits snd what classes they were doing wasn't an issue. 

[Shoeless]

54 minutes ago, Calm37 said:

Hi Christina,

I meant that there was nothing written down at all. Also, because the students were not accountable for completing any work, they mostly didn't. I assume you must have had a transcript for each of your kids. That was all the records I kept for my own children. Class name, date completed, grade, credits awarded, etc. My homeschool planner software actually built the transcript for me.

Did you use an online planner or a paper one? My son is in 6th grade, so I'm starting to look toward the future and wonder what worked well for you. 

[Shoeless]

So what can we actually do about the terrible advice we see commonly offered up on facebook? Is there anything we can realistically do to encourage a more academic focus from our fellow homeschoolers?  Is facebook a lost cause? I hesitate to recommend the WTM forums because I selfishly worry this place will be overrun with teachers from the "Just bake with them!" School of Mathematics. 

[Not_a_Number]

13 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

So what can we actually do about the terrible advice we see commonly offered up on facebook? Is there anything we can realistically do to encourage a more academic focus from our fellow homeschoolers?  Is facebook a lost cause? I hesitate to recommend the WTM forums because I selfishly worry this place will be overrun with teachers from the "Just bake with them!" School of Mathematics. 

That's an excellent question, and I wish I knew the answer. Unfortunately, I think it's very hard to counteract, because usually there's a whole  chorus of voices suggesting that all you need is to deschool, or to bake with them, or to let kids learn through video games, and these voices all amplify each other. And let's face it, their message is much more seductive than ours. Who doesn't want to do less work and get more learning out of it?! I mean, wouldn't it be great if the answer was "let your kids do whatever they want" and not "you're going to need consistency, hard work, and a lot of patience to teach your kids"? If I didn't have strong priors on this one, I know which message I'd prefer to hear 😉 . 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[BusyMom5]

Depending on my mood and the question,  I will sometimes type out a long reply- being sure to give my 'credentials' as it pertains to the topic.  If I've got a kid with similar issues,  used a particular curriculum, kids ages and successful completion of courses,  even ACT scores- i let the poster know I'm not a random person with no experience. 

Many times I see a very vague question-  What math program should I get for my 3rd grader- no additional info.  Answers will vary from cooking, MUS, Beast and everything in-between!  Or a particular program is repeatedly suggested for every kid, regardless of needs of teacher or kiddo.  If I ask for advice, I try to give as much back info as possible.   I don't want a blanket answer, I'm looking to specific experiences with a kid like mine!  I don't think many homeschoolers even realize how different kids learn.  

[lulalu]

57 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

So what can we actually do about the terrible advice we see commonly offered up on facebook? Is there anything we can realistically do to encourage a more academic focus from our fellow homeschoolers?  Is facebook a lost cause? I hesitate to recommend the WTM forums because I selfishly worry this place will be overrun with teachers from the "Just bake with them!" School of Mathematics. 

I did recommended books to read such as wtm, cm, and a wide variety. Now I don't as much. But I really think a lot of people just haven't thought out anything, and want an easy answer. Or someone to follow who has thought it all out. Many people go on fb and just want reassurance that this will be easy and kids will turn out great. Not reality that this is a job and hard work for everyone. 

[lewelma]

2 hours ago, EKS said:

Very intense and mom-directed.  No breaks except for lunch.  When I wasn't actually teaching, I was always in the room making sure things were getting done.  That sort of thing.

My younger boy does 4.5 hours 5 days per week of very intense work spread over 6.5 hours. This includes 1 hour math, 1 hour science, 2 hours writing, 30min violin.  Like EKS, this is mom directed work that was closely monitored to make sure it was efficient. However,  I do count his activities as part of his school work, which others might not.  He is keen on leadership, so a lot of what he does is about leading other people. This needs to be experiential, not academic. 

My older boy was only willing to do mom directed work for 2 hours per day - so 1 hour writing and 1 hour science.  He is self taught in math and spent 4 hours a day on math and violin -- so 6 hours in total 5 days per week.  Difference with him is that we had a no screens policy after 9 and all there was to do was read books, the economist, national geographic, and scientific american. Given he did not go to sleep until 1am, he did a LOT of reading. The difference is that it was completely self directed, so did not feel like 'school' to him. However, I did create quite a few classes out of his reading when he applied for university.

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

So what can we actually do about the terrible advice we see commonly offered up on facebook? Is there anything we can realistically do to encourage a more academic focus from our fellow homeschoolers?  Is facebook a lost cause? I hesitate to recommend the WTM forums because I selfishly worry this place will be overrun with teachers from the "Just bake with them!" School of Mathematics. 

The problem is that to do high school well is just a TON of work for the teaching parent.  I have worked my way up to being able to teach AP level in calculus, statistics, physics, chemistry, biology, geography, and english. That took a ton of study time.  I also learned mandarin to a basic level with my older boy, and am now starting Maori with my younger. I've also had to research and make difficult decisions about how to deal with my younger boy's dysgraphia, and then spend the time in seat to actually implement the plan.  I WORK, and I work hard. I study all the time. I don't think that you can sell this or even explain it to someone who doesn't want to hear it.  If they think that online programs = homeschooling, they are not alone, but I don't agree. 

[EKS]

5 hours ago, lewelma said:

I do count his activities as part of his school work, which others might not.

I counted certain activities as school as well.  I just made sure not to count them as school and also list them as extracurriculars.

[Clemsondana]

29 minutes ago, EKS said:

I counted certain activities as school as well.  I just made sure not to count them as school and also list them as extracurriculars.

We do this too.  One kid's many hours at the dojo will be an extracurricular, although if they, like many of the teens, choose to take an adult fitness class offered at the dojo then I will count that as PE.  The other kid is taking a self-defense jiu jitsu class at co-op, and that will be listed as PE.  Younger takes violin lessons and sings in a co-op choir.  I will likely count one as extracurricular and the other as a fine arts credit in high school.  I'm not sure which one I'll count as credit - if kid decides to do 'more' with one like audition for a choir or orchestra or perform in church a bunch, that will probably be the extracurricular.  But, if kid can sing in a church choir and a co-op choir, then I'll probably count co-op as credit and church as extracurricular.  I'm counting conditioning workouts as PE, but ball practice is part of the extracurricular of being on a sports team. I know of a mom who made her kids practice their instrument twice a day, once for school credit and once for extracurricular.  I don't think the kids just loved their instruments that much, so I wonder why they didn't do music appreciation or theory to broaden their knowledge base more since they were clearly putting in the time.  

[Guest]

8 hours ago, MissLemon said:

So what can we actually do about the terrible advice we see commonly offered up on facebook? Is there anything we can realistically do to encourage a more academic focus from our fellow homeschoolers?  Is facebook a lost cause? I hesitate to recommend the WTM forums because I selfishly worry this place will be overrun with teachers from the "Just bake with them!" School of Mathematics. 

I have wondered that before but I personally left them for the wolves. I am so over trying to save people from their own ignorance on Facebook, on a multitude of issues. It is a colossal waste of time. 

[Porridge]

Slightly tangential, but in the same vein -- What does the hive think about Outschool? I see so many homeschoolers cobble together a bunch of interest-led Outschool classes as the core of the DC's education. I've been skeptical as to the depth of Outschool classes (I'm sure there are some good ones, but most that I see seem pretty focused on making learning "fun" yet have very little in the way of requirements for pre-reading or any kind of output.)

[Calm37]

10 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Did you use an online planner or a paper one? My son is in 6th grade, so I'm starting to look toward the future and wonder what worked well for you. 

I used Homeschool Tracker. Don't even know if it's still available as I last used it six years ago. At the beginning of the year I set up the classes/resources. I would print out a weekly schedule on Sunday evenings, and enter any grades from the previous week. I then needed to enter in an end date when the class was completed. Report cards and transcripts were produced automatically from that information. All four of my kids did fine with that format (working from a checklist). It took me 15-30 minutes each Sunday evening during the school year. They had some prompts in the software that let you easily copy assignments and just change the chapter number, pages, etc.

Most of the time required was in setting up the classes correctly at the beginning of the year/semester and getting familiar with the class flow for quick scheduling. I actually found this really easy, and it kept us all accountable!

[Calm37]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

I have wondered that before but I personally left them for the wolves. I am so over trying to save people from their own ignorance on Facebook, on a multitude of issues. It is a colossal waste of time. 

It also causes a lot of offense in my heart, which is also a colossal waste of time. I saw a relative post something that compared Germans complying with their govt in the 1930s to mask wearing this last week and wasted quite a bit of time wanting to smash them. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, JHLWTM said:

Slightly tangential, but in the same vein -- What does the hive think about Outschool? I see so many homeschoolers cobble together a bunch of interest-led Outschool classes as the core of the DC's education. I've been skeptical as to the depth of Outschool classes (I'm sure there are some good ones, but most that I see seem pretty focused on making learning "fun" yet have very little in the way of requirements for pre-reading or any kind of output.)

Interesting question! I'd also love to hear the answer. 

I wouldn't be surprised if it varies a LOT by the class, personally.

[Not_a_Number]

9 hours ago, lewelma said:

The problem is that to do high school well is just a TON of work for the teaching parent.  I have worked my way up to being able to teach AP level in calculus, statistics, physics, chemistry, biology, geography, and english. That took a ton of study time.

And you started out with a serious science background! Now imagine starting at an average parent's level of math and science: they are probably shaky on fractions... imagine trying to learn all that. 

I can probably teach high school calculus, statistics and to some extent English without any prep, but I would need a LOT of work for physics, chemistry, biology, and geography. And don't get me started on history... 

 

9 hours ago, lewelma said:

I also learned mandarin to a basic level with my older boy, and am now starting Maori with my younger. I've also had to research and make difficult decisions about how to deal with my younger boy's dysgraphia, and then spend the time in seat to actually implement the plan.  I WORK, and I work hard. I study all the time. I don't think that you can sell this or even explain it to someone who doesn't want to hear it.  If they think that online programs = homeschooling, they are not alone, but I don't agree. 

Right. It is NOT a welcome message. Good luck communicating this to someone who isn't confident in their academics in the first place... 

[Wheres Toto]

I"m in a Facebook group that has "Academic" in the name and shortly after I joined I was wondering if they knew what the word meant.   It was not a place I expected to have so much advice about unschooling, relaxing, etc.   I'm a pretty relaxed homeschooler and I've been at it over 10 years.   Relaxed can work for some kids, especially when you're looking at the long game.  But to me, relaxed doesn't mean do nothing but play games, or let the kids do whatever they want, or just give up and assume they'll be fine.   

I live in unschooler land, with a lot of people homeschooling due to special needs, some anti-vaxxers, some philosophical homeschoolers.  Vast majority I know are probably the special needs group, at least before covid. 

[Not_a_Number]

17 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

I"m in a Facebook group that has "Academic" in the name and shortly after I joined I was wondering if they knew what the word meant.   It was not a place I expected to have so much advice about unschooling, relaxing, etc.   I'm a pretty relaxed homeschooler and I've been at it over 10 years.   Relaxed can work for some kids, especially when you're looking at the long game.  But to me, relaxed doesn't mean do nothing but play games, or let the kids do whatever they want, or just give up and assume they'll be fine.   

I live in unschooler land, with a lot of people homeschooling due to special needs, some anti-vaxxers, some philosophical homeschoolers.  Vast majority I know are probably the special needs group, at least before covid. 

Is the "Academic" the third word in the group? 😛 That was the group I had joined and have now quit; curious if we mean the same one. 

I'm also a relatively relaxed homeschooler! I've assigned my DD8 precisely 0 books over her homeschooling career so far 😉 . (Of course, she's probably read 200. I tend to try not to fix what isn't broken!) But yeah... I'm not like relaxed like THAT. 

[katilac]

16 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I meant, like... crochet. I can’t be the only one who crochets hats and scarves?!

Ah, okay!  In my defense, I wouldn't have been puzzled if you had said 'crochet a hat,' but 'make a hat' put me in mind of top hats and fedoras, lol. 

13 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

  I've sort of lost track of how many hours a day we do with DD8, because I don't even know what to count.  

Yep. Some people track foreign language films and documentaries and trips to the nature center, and some don't. And then you have students who naturally work rather slowly, and students who naturally work quite fast. There are parents/teachers who keep to a schedule and count hours, and there are parents/teachers who make sure the student stays roughly on schedule to meet goals. 

I don't find hours spent working to be a super helpful metric, even in the high school years. 

1 hour ago, JHLWTM said:

Slightly tangential, but in the same vein -- What does the hive think about Outschool? I see so many homeschoolers cobble together a bunch of interest-led Outschool classes as the core of the DC's education. I've been skeptical as to the depth of Outschool classes (I'm sure there are some good ones, but most that I see seem pretty focused on making learning "fun" yet have very little in the way of requirements for pre-reading or any kind of output.)

Outschool is just a platform for independent teachers, so you really do have to evaluate each class. There are definitely a substantial number that substantive, probably more so at the high school level. You have to remember that tons of kids are stuck at home right now, and fun interaction with peers has moved way up on the priority list for a lot of people. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

Outschool is just a platform for independent teachers, so you really do have to evaluate each class. There are definitely a substantial number that substantive, probably more so at the high school level. You have to remember that tons of kids are stuck at home right now, and fun interaction with peers has moved way up on the priority list for a lot of people. 

I think all independent classes are like this, lol. It's a real conundrum. 

Like, at our homeschooling center, the math class with the same name went from being taught by a woman who shamed kids for counting on their fingers and did pretty much nothing with them except let them run around and scream, to being taught by me, who actually ran carefully curated math games, made different worksheets for all the kids in the class to match their ability level and provided manipulatives, and read them a math story every day. 

Same class name, different semesters. It was kind of hilarious from the outside. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, katilac said:

Ah, okay!  In my defense, I wouldn't have been puzzled if you had said 'crochet a hat,' but 'make a hat' put me in mind of top hats and fedoras, lol. 

Hah, after I answered, I realized what you must have been thinking! 

Perhaps I should learn to make top hats... 

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, JHLWTM said:

Slightly tangential, but in the same vein -- What does the hive think about Outschool? I see so many homeschoolers cobble together a bunch of interest-led Outschool classes as the core of the DC's education. I've been skeptical as to the depth of Outschool classes (I'm sure there are some good ones, but most that I see seem pretty focused on making learning "fun" yet have very little in the way of requirements for pre-reading or any kind of output.)

We have used Out school for fun, enrichment-type activities only. It has been fine for meeting a very specific need here (Dungeons and dragons game for kids under 14). We attempted one shirt, academic class and it wasn't great, so I stick with the fun stuff now.

[Not_a_Number]

14 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

We have used Out school for fun, enrichment-type activities only. It has been fine for meeting a very specific need here (Dungeons and dragons game for kids under 14). We attempted one shirt, academic class and it wasn't great, so I stick with the fun stuff now.

What academic class did you try, out of curiosity? 

[kbutton]

 

14 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Last I checked, when they measured, teething also only bothers kids for just a few days as the tooth is erupting, and not for the months of crankiness that parents seem to blame teething for 😂.

While I totally agree with Quill about mindless baby advice, one of mine was only bothered by teeth for a few days—he went from palpable lump to tooth eruption in days. The other was miserable for weeks. He went from palpable lump to tooth eruption in weeks, and I think it was something like 6-8 weeks each time. He got his teeth four at a time with overlaps between sets of four. We overlapped ibuprofen and Tylenol doses and as soon as one of them wore off, he would wake from a dead sleep screaming (and he slept HARD). He is 16 now, and his last 12 y.o. molar is finally all the way in as of this summer or fall. I think it started coming in relatively on time. The dentist thought it might be stuck under the edge of another tooth, but nope. He also had lots of space in his mouth for his teeth, unlike his brother whose teeth came in fast—my younger son has a tiny jaw due to his connective tissue disorder.

I couldn’t talk about what was normal for my kids with anyone, though it was better when we found a bit of gifted community.

I hear you on the sleep. Mine didn’t need much as babies or toddlers, but my older one consistently needed it in a particular timeframe. We joked that he could tell time when he was a toddler. At exactly 8 PM every night, he would get his blanket and milk even if we were out in the yard talking to a neighbor. Same with wake up times. There was no external cue like TV programs or a rigid routine. Even now, he almost always wakes up just before his alarm goes off. 

14 hours ago, MissLemon said:

So what can we actually do about the terrible advice we see commonly offered up on facebook? Is there anything we can realistically do to encourage a more academic focus from our fellow homeschoolers?  Is facebook a lost cause? I hesitate to recommend the WTM forums because I selfishly worry this place will be overrun with teachers from the "Just bake with them!" School of Mathematics. 

I choose carefully what to respond to, and, if possible, I amplify another voice of reason that has replied. I try to respond more to specific questions vs. broad ones, and I am less likely to reply if there are already dozens of responses. I have noticed that if the situation is trickier, fewer people respond, and the recipients are more receptive. Sometimes it resonates with another responder rather than the original poster, and I consider that a win as well. I specifically look for posts where our experiences with therapies for LDs and such is helpful, which probably somewhat narrows the field to people who are already disenchanted with standard advice. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, kbutton said:

While I totally agree with Quill about mindless baby advice, one of mine was only bothered by teeth for a few days—he went from palpable lump to tooth eruption in days. The other was miserable for weeks. He went from palpable lump to tooth eruption in weeks, and I think it was something like 6-8 weeks each time. He got his teeth four at a time with overlaps between sets of four. We overlapped ibuprofen and Tylenol doses and as soon as one of them wore off, he would wake from a dead sleep screaming (and he slept HARD). He is 16 now, and his last 12 y.o. molar is finally all the way in as of this summer or fall. I think it started coming in relatively on time. The dentist thought it might be stuck under the edge of another tooth, but nope. He also had lots of space in his mouth for his teeth, unlike his brother whose teeth came in fast—my younger son has a tiny jaw due to his connective tissue disorder.

Oh yeah, I absolutely believe people who have actual evidence that it's teething! (Like, say, a kid waking up from pain -- poor kiddo!) It's just it was such a catch-all for people. Like, you don't need to look any further, it's teething! 

 

4 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I hear you on the sleep. Mine didn’t need much as babies or toddlers, but my older one consistently needed it in a particular timeframe. We joked that he could tell time when he was a toddler. At exactly 8 PM every night, he would get his blanket and milk even if we were out in the yard talking to a neighbor. Same with wake up times. There was no external cue like TV programs or a rigid routine. Even now, he almost always wakes up just before his alarm goes off. 

Sleep is the bane of my existence as a parent, lol. I was always really strict about it and people would get grumpy about me being rigid. But I knew that we were all going to pay for skipping a nap or staying up late... 

 

[Shoeless]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

What academic class did you try, out of curiosity? 

It was a math class, lol. The content was fine, but there was a personality mismatch between the instructor and my son. Since we don't really need the academic supplementation, I opted not to try again, and instead stick with what works for us. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, MissLemon said:

It was a math class, lol. The content was fine, but there was a personality mismatch between the instructor and my son. Since we don't really need the academic supplementation, I opted not to try again, and instead stick with what works for us. 

Hmm, sorry to hear that 😞 . I'd be curious what went wrong, but that's purely because I like gossip 😉 . 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Wheres Toto]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Is the "Academic" the third word in the group? 😛 That was the group I had joined and have now quit; curious if we mean the same one. 

I'm also a relatively relaxed homeschooler! I've assigned my DD8 precisely 0 books over her homeschooling career so far 😉 . (Of course, she's probably read 200. I tend to try not to fix what isn't broken!) But yeah... I'm not like relaxed like THAT. 

Yeah, I'm sure it's the same one.  I actually joined because I was excited to find a place that everyone didn't just jump to unschooling or only online classes (again before covid).   I was pretty surprised when I actually saw what was being posted.  I'm still on there but not very active at all.  I'll try and be a voice of reason every so often but mostly I glance at what hits my newsfeed and ignore it otherwise.   I'm not really sure why I'm a member anymore.