Why is the chat board so much more active than the other forums?

[Lady Florida.]

11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

How come? 

 

10 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

What do you think has changed since 2009 that would make your advice no longer relevant? 

The homeschoolers I've come in contact with don't want to put a curriculum together. Or maybe it's because they don't need to like we once did. I can't tell anyone about which boxed curriculum is best or whether not they should choose their local/state's virtual options because we didn't do that. I found books on history at the library on whatever level was at. We did unit studies (not WTM approved, I know), ds learned to read through reading and also picked up grammar that way. The only planned program we used was for math (Singapore). We were not considered odd in the homeschool world at that time. Unit studies seem to have gone completely out of favor and creating your own curriculum is a lot of work if you don't need to do it - though I loved doing that. None of that IME is what current homeschooler want now. They want to know if ABC full curriculum is better than XYZ full curriculum and why they should choose one over the other. They want to know if they should sign up with the school system's virtual school plan or use an independent virtual school plan. All of that bears no resemblance to the homeschooling I did. Our local groups don't even have field trips and park days anymore (pre-Covid). They have co-ops and classes, and actually have more classes than true co-ops. 

Like a PP, I'm not criticizing or saying what we did was better. It's just so different that I don't feel I can be of any help. 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Lady Florida.

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

 

The homeschoolers I've come in contact with don't want to put a curriculum together. Or maybe it's because they don't need to like we once did. I can't tell anyone about which boxed curriculum is best or whether not they should choose their local/state's virtual options because we didn't do that. I found books on history at the library on whatever level was at. We did unit studies (not WTM approved, I know), ds learned to read through reading and also picked up grammar that way. The only planned program we used was for math (Singapore). We were not considered odd in the homeschool world at that time. Unit studies seem to have gone completely out of favor and creating your own curriculum is a lot of work if you don't need to do it - though I loved doing that. None of that IME is what current homeschooler want now. They want to know if ABC full curriculum is better than XYZ full curriculum and why they should choose one over the other. They want to know if they should sign up with the school system's virtual school plan or use an independent virtual school plan. All of that bears no resemblance to the homeschooling I did. Our local groups don't even have field trips and park days anymore (pre-Covid). They have co-ops and classes, and actually have more classes than true co-ops. 

Like a PP, I'm not criticizing or saying what we did was better. It's just so different that I don't feel I can be of any help. 

 

 

Me too

[Frances]

6 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm not very collaborative day to day (I expect compliance on daily specifics), but I give my kids a LOT of input about what they do globally. So I also wind up not fitting in anywhere. Am I a rigid homeschooler or an unschooler? Who can say. I don't use curriculum, but I taught my kids to read early. My kids get tons of play time (and used to get tons of social time, pre-COVID), but I emphatically push them, and my 8 year old is doing math something like 4-5 grades ahead because she can. But she's currently building a blanket fort on my bed and I never assign her any reading -- she's not overworked 😉 . 

If you don’t mind sharing, I’m curious about your reasons for teaching reading early. Although maybe it should be a separate thread?

[Shoeless]

12 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

 

The homeschoolers I've come in contact with don't want to put a curriculum together. Or maybe it's because they don't need to like we once did. I can't tell anyone about which boxed curriculum is best or whether not they should choose their local/state's virtual options because we didn't do that. I found books on history at the library on whatever level was at. We did unit studies (not WTM approved, I know), ds learned to read through reading and also picked up grammar that way. The only planned program we used was for math (Singapore). We were not considered odd in the homeschool world at that time. Unit studies seem to have gone completely out of favor and creating your own curriculum is a lot of work if you don't need to do it - though I loved doing that. None of that IME is what current homeschooler want now. They want to know if ABC full curriculum is better than XYZ full curriculum and why they should choose one over the other. They want to know if they should sign up with the school system's virtual school plan or use an independent virtual school plan. All of that bears no resemblance to the homeschooling I did. Our local groups don't even have field trips and park days anymore (pre-Covid). They have co-ops and classes, and actually have more classes than true co-ops. 

Like a PP, I'm not criticizing or saying what we did was better. It's just so different that I don't feel I can be of any help. 

 

 

This is very interesting to me, and I agree with you.  Up until very recently, I really didn't understand what people meant by "creating a curriculum".  I was imagining parents writing their own books and tapping into wells of deep knowledge on all topics under the sun, and crafting elaborate scope and sequence statements.  I mean, I don't have that sort of deep knowledge on every topic that I think my son should learn.  I'm re-learning a lot of things along with him. 

This intimidated the heck out of me until I finally asked the stupid question "So what does "build a curriculum mean exactly?  Can you describe this to me?", and someone described it like you just did. 

Hurrah! That's what we've done all along! But that vocabulary doesn't exist in the current homeschool world, (or at least, it doesn't exist in the forums that are popular on facebook).  I struggled to describe how we homeschooled because it didn't fit into anything that I saw out there.  

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by MissLemon

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Frances said:

If you don’t mind sharing, I’m curious about your reasons for teaching reading early. Although maybe it should be a separate thread?

I don't mind answering, although they aren't anything very profound 🙂 . For DD8, I was going to send her to school, and I wanted to get to her before the sight word teachers in kindergarten did, lol. Plus, she had known her letters forever, listened to very long stories, and was unnaturally focused. She wasn't particularly interested until we got started (a bit after turning 3), but she quickly perked up and blasted through 100 Easy Lessons.

And she then taught herself to write in pre-K, and overall, it was a very positive experience -- she has a lovely relationship with books, despite the dire predictions. (When we were looking for schools, one of the private schools we had toured told us they'd make sure to give her LOTS of nonfiction, since early readers so often burn out. Yeah, I'm sorry, my kid doesn't like non-fiction and is as voracious a reader as ever at age 8.) 

I wasn't going to teach DD4 as early, because DD8 had known her letters by age 2, and DD4 didn't know them by 3.5, when we started lessons. But she asked and asked and asked to learn (she saw her big sister reading and she liked being read to.) And she had an excellent relationship with spoken language -- she spoke extremely early, rhyming and syllables came extremely easy to her, her spoken vocabulary was huge -- so I thought, as she's asking, why not give it a try? And this was a much bumpier road than for DD8, but she's now 4.5 and reading fluently and happily in her head, so definitely a success. 

I'm fundamentally kind of lazy, so I always like getting the low-hanging fruit when I can 😉 . Early reading was a low-hanging fruit with my kids. 

[Not_a_Number]

15 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

 

The homeschoolers I've come in contact with don't want to put a curriculum together. Or maybe it's because they don't need to like we once did. I can't tell anyone about which boxed curriculum is best or whether not they should choose their local/state's virtual options because we didn't do that. I found books on history at the library on whatever level was at. We did unit studies (not WTM approved, I know), ds learned to read through reading and also picked up grammar that way. The only planned program we used was for math (Singapore). We were not considered odd in the homeschool world at that time. Unit studies seem to have gone completely out of favor and creating your own curriculum is a lot of work if you don't need to do it - though I loved doing that. None of that IME is what current homeschooler want now. They want to know if ABC full curriculum is better than XYZ full curriculum and why they should choose one over the other. They want to know if they should sign up with the school system's virtual school plan or use an independent virtual school plan. All of that bears no resemblance to the homeschooling I did. Our local groups don't even have field trips and park days anymore (pre-Covid). They have co-ops and classes, and actually have more classes than true co-ops. 

Like a PP, I'm not criticizing or saying what we did was better. It's just so different that I don't feel I can be of any help.

Oh, but some of us are just like you, lol. That's what I do, except I don't even use a math program. We read books together, create projects to work on together, and buy books as the fancy takes us. I don't have a history program. I don't have a writing program. I don't have a science program. (Well, I bought BFSU, but we're definitely not using it as designed, lol. I like the reference, though.) 

[Lady Florida.]

6 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

This is very interesting to me, and I agree with you.  Up until very recently, I really didn't understand what people meant by "creating a curriculum".  I was imagining parents writing their own books and tapping into wells of deep knowledge on all topics under the sun, and crafting elaborate scope and sequence statements.  I mean, I don't have that sort of deep knowledge on every topic that I think my son should learn.  I'm re-learning a lot of things along with him. 

 

 

Oh goodness! That would have been way beyond the ability of most of us old timers lol. But that shows how much has changed. Back then we all knew what it meant to create your own curriculum. 

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, but some of us are just like you, lol. That's what I do, except I don't even use a math program. We read books together, create projects to work on together, and buy books as the fancy takes us. I don't have a history program. I don't have a writing program. I don't have a science program. (Well, I bought BFSU, but we're definitely not using it as designed, lol. I like the reference, though.) 

From what I've seen you two and homeschoolers like you are the exception to the rule these days.

I will say I had fun homeschooling in that way. I loved finding books that I knew ds would like. I loved coming up with ideas specifically tailored to his learning style. Ds even learned how to use the library's computer system. We would go to the children's section and I'd look for books for him while he also browsed. One day I found him at the computer, trying to type (he was around 5). I asked him what he was doing and he said he was looking for a Blue's Clues tape to check out. 😄 To me that was what homeschooling was all about - creating a learning environment that was a perfect fit for the child. I know I had it easy because I was only homeschooling one. Dss went to school and was already out of high school when ds was born (dh was the custodial parent so they were a package deal 😄 ) 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

I will say I had fun homeschooling in that way. I loved finding books that I knew ds would like. I loved coming up with ideas specifically tailored to his learning style.

I mean, I'm pretty much homeschooling so I can match my kids' learning style. Will I always succeed? Who knows. But that was one of the big reasons it appealed to me. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Ordinary Shoes said:

I would guess that most of the current HSers on this forum do want to put a curriculum together. I'm a current HSer and that's what I do. 

I think a lot of people are on THIS forum and not in a FB group because they were attracted by all the deep conversations. So that's quite a lot of people who do their own thing. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

But on the other hand, I've learned there is some benefit to following a plan written by someone else. I've realized that a well thought out curriculum will sometimes fit together better than what I do myself. 

That's why we got BFSU. On the other hand, I think I do best if someone gives me a map and I figure out how to navigate it myself. I don't think "open and go" would work over here. I'd want to mull over what we're doing. I'd want to be able to adjust every day. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

That being said, we did use 100 Easy Lessons very happily. But then I think reading has fewer moving parts than other basic skills, and as is, we've had to supplement a lot with DD4. But we didn't mind having a spine, and it definitely gave us good ideas. 

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

Oh goodness! That would have been way beyond the ability of most of us old timers lol. But that shows how much has changed. Back then we all knew what it meant to create your own curriculum. 

From what I've seen you two and homeschoolers like you are the exception to the rule these days.

I will say I had fun homeschooling in that way. I loved finding books that I knew ds would like. I loved coming up with ideas specifically tailored to his learning style. Ds even learned how to use the library's computer system. We would go to the children's section and I'd look for books for him while he also browsed. One day I found him at the computer, trying to type (he was around 5). I asked him what he was doing and he said he was looking for a Blue's Clues tape to check out. 😄 To me that was what homeschooling was all about - creating a learning environment that was a perfect fit for the child. I know I had it easy because I was only homeschooling one. Dss went to school and was already out of high school when ds was born (dh was the custodial parent so they were a package deal 😄 ) 

I think those homeschoolers are still out there, but they are lost in groups like "Relaxed Homeschooling" groups, and even a smidge in less-radical unschooling groups. The people that seemed to be doing something similar to me were often in these groups, although those groups were never a perfect fit either, because IMO, there was often an anti-intellectual vein running through them.   

[frogger]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

 

The homeschoolers I've come in contact with don't want to put a curriculum together. Or maybe it's because they don't need to like we once did. I can't tell anyone about which boxed curriculum is best or whether not they should choose their local/state's virtual options because we didn't do that. I found books on history at the library on whatever level was at. We did unit studies (not WTM approved, I know), ds learned to read through reading and also picked up grammar that way. The only planned program we used was for math (Singapore). We were not considered odd in the homeschool world at that time. Unit studies seem to have gone completely out of favor and creating your own curriculum is a lot of work if you don't need to do it - though I loved doing that. None of that IME is what current homeschooler want now. They want to know if ABC full curriculum is better than XYZ full curriculum and why they should choose one over the other. They want to know if they should sign up with the school system's virtual school plan or use an independent virtual school plan. All of that bears no resemblance to the homeschooling I did. Our local groups don't even have field trips and park days anymore (pre-Covid). They have co-ops and classes, and actually have more classes than true co-ops. 

Like a PP, I'm not criticizing or saying what we did was better. It's just so different that I don't feel I can be of any help. 

 

 

Well, I for one still put together my own courses. I don't do it for every single class because I am a mom of many and the house needs help and extended family needs help but I do love cobbling things together and following rabbit trails. 

I think there are simply more homeschoolers now because instead of .5% of the student population about 3.5% of the student population is considered or called homeschooling but probably only .5% do it just to learn and because we don't want our children to be "schooled." But since 3% dwarfs .5% the .5%'s voices will be drowned out.

I think people hear that homeschooling works and kids were doing great (except the subset being overly controlled and even abused but that is a different topic) so they wanted in but they had no idea the investment or why it became known as great.

[Lady Florida.]

I don't know why I care but I'm glad to hear there are still homeschoolers putting their own curricula together.

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, kand said:

It’s just that with our kids, the amount of difficulty they’ve had in their teens and young adult years has seemed directly proportional to how easily academics have come to them.

Interesting. Any idea why that is?

[theelfqueen]

I'm a homebrewed homeschooler. 

[Soror]

As others have said chat has always been more popular, even before it existed on its own.

When I started homeschooling I was so immersed in the ins and outs and figuring it all out I hardly ventured into chat threads. Now we've been in a groove for awhile I rarely go on the hs boards. We are doing what works for us, I don't need to hash it out. I don't need to hear that this is not rigorous enough or that is the best (whether it is method, style, or programs). I don't care to read right now how I need to design all my own curriculum to give them a proper education- saw that the last time I checked over in the edu section (although I have designed enough over the years- finding things that work well enough with tweaks is good). In the end, I've learned to trust myself more and not be swayed by the pull of the boards, I'm the one teaching these kids. Continually working away is more important than using the "best", however that is defined at that time. I'm not perfect, it's ok though. 

So, we plug along and do things our own way. When I get into planning sometimes I check out the boards or if things stop working and I need fresh ideas (which I often glean from old threads) but no need to fix what is working.

[Not_a_Number]

6 hours ago, kand said:

I just think gifted kids tend to have more quirks that lead to difficulty during those years. 🤷‍♀️

Interesting. That wouldn’t surprise me, I guess. Any tips for dealing with it?

[frogger]

To be honest, I didn't feel like I fit in here for the longest time. Really I guess I still don't but if people had to be just like me to talk to them, I'd be perfectly lonely. A group doesn't have to be just like me for me to participate. 

[TravelingChris]

12 hours ago, MissLemon said:

I think those homeschoolers are still out there, but they are lost in groups like "Relaxed Homeschooling" groups, and even a smidge in less-radical unschooling groups. The people that seemed to be doing something similar to me were often in these groups, although those groups were never a perfect fit either, because IMO, there was often an anti-intellectual vein running through them.   

Relaxed homeschooling was what we did- kind of.  But yeah, by the time I was homeschooling my last one in high school (and she graduated in 2015), I was getting some deer in the headlights looks from younger homeschool parents about being relaxed and doing our own thing. Cause I certainly wasn't anti-intellectual but I just became much more confident and relaxed about homeschooling.  And I liked making our own unit studies- like I remember doing one on fires when my kids were little and we were living in Northern CA (where fires were a problem and we were required to teach fire and earthquake safety - the earthquake was sort of pointless in the area we lived in but the fire was very real)  So I got books out, videos out and went on  a field trip to Safety Town.  I know one of the books was about the Yellowstone Fire and another was a story about the Oakland Fire and Sukkot.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Since the board format changed (a week? two?) ago I haven't been able to log directly into the General Ed board.  I have found a weird workaround but I am not going to see new interesting threads there unless I really work at it.  I can log onto every single other board on this forum except for the General Ed one.  #weirdproblem

[marbel]

4 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Relaxed homeschooling was what we did- kind of.  But yeah, by the time I was homeschooling my last one in high school (and she graduated in 2015), I was getting some deer in the headlights looks from younger homeschool parents about being relaxed and doing our own thing. Cause I certainly wasn't anti-intellectual but I just became much more confident and relaxed about homeschooling.  And I liked making our own unit studies- like I remember doing one on fires when my kids were little and we were living in Northern CA (where fires were a problem and we were required to teach fire and earthquake safety - the earthquake was sort of pointless in the area we lived in but the fire was very real)  So I got books out, videos out and went on  a field trip to Safety Town.  I know one of the books was about the Yellowstone Fire and another was a story about the Oakland Fire and Sukkot.  

For this and other reasons I didn't like the word "relaxed" to describe my homeschooling. 

First, the anti-intellectual vibe it seems to give off. I was stunned when I heard someone say "oh, relaxed homeschooling is OK but I want my kids to go to college."  Could a person get more condescending? But really it was a matter of misunderstanding the concept. I like "identity-directed" as was mentioned upthread, but that is not a very well-known term.

Another reason I dislike the term "relaxed" is that opposites are... uptight, anxious, worried, "type A" and similar. And that's not necessarily the right description for homeschoolers who are not "relaxed."  Or at least, not all of them. 😎

Maybe at one time it had a more specific and well-known/understood meaning, but it is lost to me. 

I just tried to teach my kids in the ways that worked best for them and played to their strengths and interests (while not ignoring their weaknesses or thing they had to be exposed to whether they were interested or not). There was never a well-understood term for that. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, marbel said:

For this and other reasons I didn't like the word "relaxed" to describe my homeschooling. 

First, the anti-intellectual vibe it seems to give off. I was stunned when I heard someone say "oh, relaxed homeschooling is OK but I want my kids to go to college."  Could a person get more condescending? But really it was a matter of misunderstanding the concept. I like "identity-directed" as was mentioned upthread, but that is not a very well-known term.

Another reason I dislike the term "relaxed" is that opposites are... uptight, anxious, worried, "type A" and similar. And that's not necessarily the right description for homeschoolers who are not "relaxed."  Or at least, not all of them. 😎

Maybe at one time it had a more specific and well-known/understood meaning, but it is lost to me. 

I just tried to teach my kids in the ways that worked best for them and played to their strengths and interests (while not ignoring their weaknesses or thing they had to be exposed to whether they were interested or not). There was never a well-understood term for that. 

The problem is that some "relaxed" homeschoolers are the "my kid doesn't understand fractions but who cares?" sort, or the "my kid isn't reading by age 10, but it's fiiiine, I'm sure they'll learn when they are ready!" sort. Sometimes, "relaxed" or "unschooling" can be a code word for not really teaching your kid or solving their problems. 

I'm a relaxed homeschooler in the sense that I let my kids pick a lot of what they do. I'm not a very relaxed homeschooler in the sense that I push my kids to work hard and care about how much they learn. So I don't know how to describe that, either. 

[marbel]

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

The problem is that some "relaxed" homeschoolers are the "my kid doesn't understand fractions but who cares?" sort, or the "my kid isn't reading by age 10, but it's fiiiine, I'm sure they'll learn when they are ready!" sort. Sometimes, "relaxed" or "unschooling" can be a code word for not really teaching your kid or solving their problems. 

I'm a relaxed homeschooler in the sense that I let my kids pick a lot of what they do. I'm not a very relaxed homeschooler in the sense that I push my kids to work hard and care about how much they learn. So I don't know how to describe that, either. 

Right, this is part of the problem.  "Relaxed" is not a good definition because of the images in conjures up.

For example, I know quite a few homeschoolers who consider themselves relaxed, and they do indeed want their kids to care about how much they learn, what they are learning, etc. Part of the point is to have an atmosphere where learning is natural and desirable, a part of life, not a separate compartment called "school" or "education."  "Relaxed" does not necessarily mean "not putting in any effort."

FWIW, I think the number of "relaxed" homeschoolers who truly don't care about fractions or kids not reading by age 10 is vanishingly small. I mean, I'm sure some exist somewhere. But in 13 years of homeschooling in 2 states and various IRL and online groups, I've never come across one, unless they kept those opinions to themselves. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by marbel

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, marbel said:

FWIW, I think the number of "relaxed" homeschoolers who truly don't care about fractions or kids not reading by age 10 is vanishingly small. I mean, I'm sure some exist somewhere. But in 13 years of homeschooling in 2 states and various IRL and online groups, I've never come across one, unless they kept those opinions to themselves. 

Hmmmm. It depends what you mean by "care." I've definitely seen lots of people who won't redirect if something is not working. That's just a human issue, though -- people are awful at redirecting. But, like, if you get indication that your kid is having trouble with some math concept, the idea should be to problem solve. Or to read ahead. Or to get a tutor. Or to throw lots of things at the problem. But people often just plow ahead. 

[Not_a_Number]

Given that most people don't understand fractions (I'd estimate something like 80% of US adults do not), I would be extremely unsurprised if their kids don't, either 😉 

[Moonhawk]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Given that most people don't understand fractions (I'd estimate something like 80% of US adults do not), I would be extremely unsurprised if their kids don't, either 😉 

You mean to tell me that 3/5 of adults today don't understand fractions??? 😱

 

(😛)

[TravelingChris]

1 minute ago, marbel said:

Right, this is part of the problem.  "Relaxed" is not a good definition because of the images in conjures up.

For example, I know quite a few homeschoolers who consider themselves relaxed, and they do indeed want their kids to care about how much they learn, what they are learning, etc. Part of the point is to have an atmosphere where learning is natural and desirable, a part of life, not a separate compartment called "school" or "education."  "Relaxed" does not necessarily mean "not putting in any effort."

FWIW, I think the number of "relaxed" homeschoolers who truly don't care about fractions or kids not reading by age 10 is vanishingly small. I mean, I'm sure some exist somewhere. But in 13 years of homeschooling in 2 states and various IRL and online groups, I've never come across one, unless they kept those opinions to themselves. 

Part of my deal with why we were relaxed was that we weren't rigged nor keeping to public school standards.  What that meant was that I did not force early writing the way the public schools were doing and I used some non traditional sources and we were not set time homeschoolers.  In no way that it meant that math wasn't important (it was more important in my household than in many other homeschoolers) nor that we spent little time homeschooling.  But we tended to turn lots of things into educational experiences.  But other things too like sometimes reordering when certain subjects were taught.  Not carrying that hey it is fourth grade and that means state history---we always did some state history except during our three years in Europe.  And then we were mostly studying European history anyway.  

But as to reading- I had one fluent good reader by 5, one by 7 (she had vision issues that needed correcting), and one by 10 (my dyslexic child).  That didn't mean that child two and three couldn't read earlier- they could but not as well as child one.  But this had nothing to do with relaxed except you better get relaxed when you deal with gifted children who have disabilities.  

The one thing that not forcing early writing did for my kids is that each of them writes well now.  None had any issues with college writing and one has even become a tech writer.

[catz]

7 minutes ago, marbel said:

 

FWIW, I think the number of "relaxed" homeschoolers who truly don't care about fractions or kids not reading by age 10 is vanishingly small. I mean, I'm sure some exist somewhere. But in 13 years of homeschooling in 2 states and various IRL and online groups, I've never come across one, unless they kept those opinions to themselves. 

I totally agree.  Heck, I know a very unschooly kid that got into an ivy this year that I KNOW would have have gotten reprimands through the elementary/middle school years on this board.  

I said above just because I'm in a metro and have been deeply involved for 12-13 years at this point, I have seen a few hundred kids over the years grow up in the homeschooling community and just haven't seen it either.  

And I have called us relaxed at times.  But I actually think my kids got more rigor by allowing time and space for personal interests and deep dives.  My kid is a dean's list student at a top 50 school on a large academic scholarship.  I think it turned out ok.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Moonhawk said:

You mean to tell me that 3/5 of adults today don't understand fractions??? 😱

(😛)

Oh, man, I have so many jokes along those lines, lol. 

There are 3 kinds of people in the world: those who can count, and those who can't. 

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who know binary, and those who don't 😛 . 

[TravelingChris]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Hmmmm. It depends what you mean by "care." I've definitely seen lots of people who won't redirect if something is not working. That's just a human issue, though -- people are awful at redirecting. But, like, if you get indication that your kid is having trouble with some math concept, the idea should be to problem solve. Or to read ahead. Or to get a tutor. Or to throw lots of things at the problem. But people often just plow ahead. 

Haven't met those people.  On this forum and IRL, having homeschooled in 7 places, I have met a number of people who didn't place such emphasis on making sure their kids learned higher maths but lower- just about everybody did.

[Jean in Newcastle]

4 hours ago, frogger said:

To be honest, I didn't feel like I fit in here for the longest time. Really I guess I still don't but if people had to be just like me to talk to them, I'd be perfectly lonely. A group doesn't have to be just like me for me to participate. 

I think that we all feel that way to some degree. At least I have felt that way - and not just here but at homeschool support groups (and even nonhomeschool groups).  
 

I think that homeschooling is especially personal-at least when done in the home with parent chosen materials. That’s the beauty of an individual education but it also means that we don’t run into other people with our particular mix of strengths, weaknesses, interests, children etc. 

[Moonhawk]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, man, I have so many jokes along those lines, lol. 

There are 3 kinds of people in the world: those who can count, and those who can't. 

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who know binary, and those who don't 😛 . 

I told this one time to someone and they, not jokingly, asked, "So what's the third type?"

No, they weren't pulling my leg. 

I lamely replied that I had already forgotten the third type.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

The one thing that not forcing early writing did for my kids is that each of them writes well now.  None had any issues with college writing and one has even become a tech writer.

I feel like it's not really early writing that's the problem -- it's pushing early anything that's distasteful to the kid. Like, I know lots of people suggest copywork for the early grades, but I kept suggesting it to DD8, and she kept not liking the idea. I feel like pushing copywork wouldn't have been better than doing what she wanted to do. 

Right now, we're only doing writing in the context of math, which has been working fine. But I doubt I'll do the same thing for DD4 -- she might like writing stories. But either way, I'd like to honor what works for them, while also working on the skills we need. 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

But I actually think my kids got more rigor by allowing time and space for personal interests and deep dives.

Yeah, I absolutely see that. But I've also found it necessary to push on some of the basics that are not going to become a deep dive. DD8 is simply not going to deep dive into mathematics on her own time. And she's not going to teach herself piano or Russian, either, at least not as well as she would if we taught her. 

[Not_a_Number]

I haven't seen a ton of homeschoolers graduate. DH said that the homeschoolers he saw in his classes were pretty unimpressive. A few that I know around here seem fine but sort of aimless. I'm sure it's not the rule or anything, and I'm sure it varies... around here, we have a lot of intersection with theater crowds, and maybe that's just different, I don't know. 

[marbel]

14 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Hmmmm. It depends what you mean by "care." I've definitely seen lots of people who won't redirect if something is not working. That's just a human issue, though -- people are awful at redirecting. But, like, if you get indication that your kid is having trouble with some math concept, the idea should be to problem solve. Or to read ahead. Or to get a tutor. Or to throw lots of things at the problem. But people often just plow ahead. 

For the purposes of this discussion, I'd say "cares" means seeing a problem and working to find a way to solve it - whether that be by using a different method/book/whatever, outsourcing the subject to someone better equipped to teach it at the level needed, or seeking medical/professional help (as in the case of LDs), or whatever other choices there may be. 

So by that definition I've never come across anyone who didn't care, relaxed or otherwise. 🙂

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, marbel said:

For the purposes of this discussion, I'd say "cares" means seeing a problem and working to find a way to solve it - whether that be by using a different method/book/whatever, outsourcing the subject to someone better equipped to teach it at the level needed, or seeking medical/professional help (as in the case of LDs), or whatever other choices there may be. 

So by that definition I've never come across anyone who didn't care, relaxed or otherwise. 🙂

Huh. Interesting. That hasn't at all been my experience. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, I absolutely see that. But I've also found it necessary to push on some of the basics that are not going to become a deep dive. DD8 is simply not going to deep dive into mathematics on her own time. And she's not going to teach herself piano or Russian, either, at least not as well as she would if we taught her. 

My own experience was that it’s a dance. I was pulled along for some things as my kids rushed headlong into interests. I had to gently encourage other things and some times flat out require some things. But that’s my own experience with life as well. I think that my relationship with my kids made a big difference in that dance. I listened to them, collaborated with them and tried to have the big picture that they didn’t have the maturity to have on their own. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

My own experience was that it’s a dance. I was pulled along for some things as my kids rushed headlong into interests. I had to gently encourage other things and some times flat out require some things. But that’s my own experience with life as well. I think that my relationship with my kids made a big difference in that dance. I listened to them, collaborated with them and tried to have the big picture that they didn’t have the maturity to have on their own. 

That's a good way to put it, I think 🙂 . It's all rather tricky. I think the biggest thing for me has been to listen to them, keep an open mind, but also keep the big picture in mind. It all feels like juggling. 

[catz]

17 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, I absolutely see that. But I've also found it necessary to push on some of the basics that are not going to become a deep dive. DD8 is simply not going to deep dive into mathematics on her own time. And she's not going to teach herself piano or Russian, either, at least not as well as she would if we taught her. 

Oh jeez, I am not as wishy washy as I perhaps sound.  One of my kids started music lessons at 4 and the other at 5.  My older is double majoring in music and went through competitive auditioning processes to get there.  But I didn't attach expectations to progress on music.  LIke I wanted to give them some sort of outlet at that age because they were both just super high mental energy and it was good to have something to structure our days and weeks around.  Anyway my initial goal was to get to the instrument 5-6 days a week for 15-20 minutes and build a habit. 

I had one kid who was immediately the prodigy child despite driving the teacher nuts.  I had another kid who had a love/hate with it, threatened to quit many times (which I would have allowed at age 12) and is basically in a similar spot as her sibling so many years later.  I have now paid a fortune in music lessons.  LOL.  

I did require daily reading, writing, math at wherever they were at but we could crank through that in 60-90 minutes but they were still always way ahead there.  History and social studies were audio books, field trips, documentaries, outside classes, etc.  My kids often chose to read or research or build kits or fiddle in the kitchen, etc.  I did have school hours.  Like there wasn't rec gaming or TV between certain hours - I think like wake up to 3 pm, or until we saw the neighborhood kids shuffling about.  

I actually think just having an educated, well read, engaged parent that discusses is a big deal.  Years ago, I listened to a mom locally go on and on about how a certain family was doing a disservice to their kids.  One parent literally has a PhD from a top 20 college and  is a prof.  I can assure you their discussions around the breakfast table were a bit different than your child's circle .time despite the fact you see them in feral mode half the day outdoors.  And surprise surprise, those kids are approaching later teen years and are just fine.  And to be clear, I don't think you need advanced degrees either to be that parent.  I just found it particularly amusing that family was tagged as concerning.  LOL.  

Edited October 14, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[frogger]

32 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

My own experience was that it’s a dance. I was pulled along for some things as my kids rushed headlong into interests. I had to gently encourage other things and some times flat out require some things. But that’s my own experience with life as well. I think that my relationship with my kids made a big difference in that dance. I listened to them, collaborated with them and tried to have the big picture that they didn’t have the maturity to have on their own. 

Ahhh, yes.

And teaching them that learning is enjoyable but not always.  Life is not always enjoyable but how to push through with things, how to struggle, how to weigh your options, how to prioritize, and what rewards come with struggle.  Learning how to deal with life is the number one thing I want to mentor well.  

[Guest]

I’ve known some aimless, unimpressive homeschool grads but I have also known some really impressive, focused homeschool grads. Pretty much just like kids in other schooling options.*

*I say that even though it does bother me when parents seem too laissez-faire, especially in high school. 

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Moonhawk said:

I told this one time to someone and they, not jokingly, asked, "So what's the third type?"

There are two kinds of people: those who can extrapolate from data...

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Corraleno said:

There are two kinds of people: those who can extrapolate from data...

And those who like corn? 😉.  

[Not_a_Number]

49 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Oh jeez, I am not as wishy washy as I perhaps sound.  One of my kids started music lessons at 4 and the other at 5.  My older is double majoring in music and went through competitive auditioning processes to get there.  But I didn't attach expectations to progress on music.  LIke I wanted to give them some sort of outlet at that age because they were both just super high mental energy and it was good to have something to structure our days and weeks around.  Anyway my initial goal was to get to the instrument 5-6 days a week for 15-20 minutes and build a habit. 

I had one kid who was immediately the prodigy child despite driving the teacher nuts.  I had another kid who had a love/hate with it, threatened to quit many times (which I would have allowed at age 12) and is basically in a similar spot as her sibling so many years later.  I have now paid a fortune in music lessons.  LOL.  

I did require daily reading, writing, math at wherever they were at but we could crank through that in 60-90 minutes but they were still always way ahead there.  History and social studies were audio books, field trips, documentaries, outside classes, etc.  My kids often chose to read or research or build kits or fiddle in the kitchen, etc.  I did have school hours.  Like there wasn't rec gaming or TV between certain hours - I think like wake up to 3 pm, or until we saw the neighborhood kids shuffling about.  

I think we sound like we disagree when we actually are identical, lol. We do an hour of math every day, and recently an hour of Russian (some of which is cartoons), and 45 minutes of piano. (We used to do an hour of math and an hour of writing, but her writing is very good now, and I wanted time for Russian.) We do reading aloud and no output whatsoever for science and history, and we've been reading the lightest history possible, so they would enjoy it. We've also been trying to schedule in science experiments, which is why my kids were recently covered in cornstarch, lol. 

The kids read for fun to themselves and I don't assign any reading. We have lots of books and talk a lot. 

 

49 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I actually think just having an educated, well read, engaged parent that discusses is a big deal.  Years ago, I listened to a mom locally go on and on about how a certain family was doing a disservice to their kids.  One parent literally has a PhD from a top 20 college and  is a prof.  I can assure you their discussions around the breakfast table were a bit different than your child's circle .time despite the fact you see them in feral mode half the day outdoors.  And surprise surprise, those kids are approaching later teen years and are just fine.  And to be clear, I don't think you need advanced degrees either to be that parent.  I just found it particularly amusing that family was tagged as concerning.  LOL.  

Yeah, we've started BFSU and discovered that while it's a lovely guide, when I started talking to my kids about living organisms, we got into genes and discussion of what makes a bush grow shorter than a tree, and other things that weren't really included in Volume 1 😉. Recently, I was talking to DD4 about water, and I said something like "and it goes into the air," trying to keep things simple, and she said "You mean it evaporates into a gas?" 😛 

So yeah, I'm a big fan of simply talking about how the world works with kids who are excited and willing. We aren't very structured except with the things I think of as foundational. And for science, I would wager that letting DD8 building contraptions out of cardboard (she does that constantly) is probably doing more of a service to her than most other things I could do. 

[marbel]

16 minutes ago, Quill said:

I’ve known some aimless, unimpressive homeschool grads but I have also known some really impressive, focused homeschool grads. Pretty much just like kids in other schooling options.*

*I say that even though it does bother me when parents seem too laissez-faire, especially in high school. 

It's always amusing to me (though not in a good way) when people point out aimless, unfocused homeschool grads but ignore aimless, unfocused graduates of public and private schools, as if it's strictly a homeschool problem. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by marbel

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, marbel said:

It's always amusing to me (though not in a good way) when people point out aimless, unfocused homeschool grads but ignore the scores of aimless, unfocused graduates of public and private schools, as if it's strictly a homeschool problem. 

So I know that I personally sometimes point that out because I expect better, given the one-to-one student to teacher ratio. And also because my specialty is math, and I think people do worse homeschooling math than other things, because on average it's not their area of speciality and they can't teach it as well as something they are good at and enjoy. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

Haven't met those people.  On this forum and IRL, having homeschooled in 7 places, I have met a number of people who didn't place such emphasis on making sure their kids learned higher maths but lower- just about everybody did.

I mean, I believe they at some point did some workbooks with fractions, but that doesn't mean they learned it well. I have a friend who teaches homeschoolers math locally, so I'm going by her report with respect to fractions. Now, her report on public school kids isn't any better, to be fair 😉 . 

[Shoeless]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I mean, I believe they at some point did some workbooks with fractions, but that doesn't mean they learned it well. I have a friend who teaches homeschoolers math locally, so I'm going by her report with respect to fractions. Now, her report on public school kids isn't any better, to be fair 😉 . 

Going off what I've seen locally and in fb groups, there is a lot of math aversion among the parents.  I can find lots and lots of posts from mom saying the only fractions kids will need to learn are for cooking, and all other math can be handled with a calculator, so why spend all this time on math?