Why is the chat board so much more active than the other forums?

[Roadrunner]

Just now, Roadrunner said:

@Ordinary ShoesSWB has been an incredible hosts. While many of us came here because of her books and curriculum, and many of us use her books and her online school, there has never, ever been a push towards her books exclusively. Moreover, we, the ungrateful guests (😉), often criticize her curriculum and she tolerates is just the same. 

I wanted to edit and add that yes, Circe type of threads are what I miss as well, but managed to quote myself instead.  

Edited October 13, 2020 by Roadrunner

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I wanted to edit and add that yes, Circe type of threads are what I miss as well, but managed to quote myself instead.  

It’s the fact that edit button has moved 😉 . You never realize how many motions you’ve automated until something like this happens.

[theelfqueen]

14 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

@Ordinary ShoesSWB has been an incredible hosts. While many of us came here because of her books and curriculum, and many of us use her books and her online school, there has never, ever been a push towards her books exclusively. Moreover, we, the ungrateful guests (😉), often criticize her curriculum and she tolerates is just the same. 

We love you @Susan Wise Bauer thanks for being an awesome host! 

[Jean in Newcastle]

15 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm a relatively new HSer although I'm a weird one. I'm GenX (thinking a post a few pages back about boards are a GenX thing). My first introduction to HSing was this board. I'm not sure how I found it. I didn't know any IRL HSers at the time so had no personal influences. 

I came shortly after that huge thread with Andrew Kern. I think of that time as the Circe era of the forum. 

I am interested in those types of conversations but admittedly I'm weird. However, I think many (or some?) new HSers would be interested in conversations about philosophy if they knew there were educational philosophies. Someone who is introduced to HSing on a local FB group won't know what they don't know, KWIM? 

It seems to me that the only DIY HSers with any online presence besides here are the Charlotte Mason people. There are many CM FB groups as well as the AO forum. It's interesting that they seem to becoming less DIY as time goes by. I think many of them are joining the Alveary and CMEC where they get more handholding than with AO. 

I see the same thing on the FB groups. Has there any been any attempt to control this forum to steer discussion towards SWB's books? I can't imagine her doing something like that. 

I hate to sound naive but those discussions could happen again if people were willing to do it. Everyone laments the fact that they don't happen here anymore but none of us do anything about it. I see people try to start threads that could lead to discussion but they die out. 

Yes, those discussions could happen. But my opinion is that they would need to be driven by younger homeschoolers who are still in the trenches. It’s not that I don’t have opinions but I don’t have the passion so much anymore because it isn’t as relevant to my daily life. I would put in my two cents but unless someone had specific questions on those two cents I wouldn’t be in there hashing things out because I already know what I think. (This doesn’t mean that I think that I know it all. It’s just easier for me to be content with what has mostly worked for me and I don’t have educational guinea pigs at home anymore. 😉 )

[Roadrunner]

2 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I keep doing the same thing! 

I'm a huge SWB stan even though I'm not using any of her curricula now. I also love Julie Bogart but dislike every BW product I've ever purchased. 

I wanted to clarify that despite writing upthread that there isn't anything stopping us from engaging in good conversations about educational philosophies again, I don't feel like I do it myself. I want other people to do the heavy lifting while I follow along and get ideas. I'm lazy like that. 🙂 

It takes a lot of effort to think and write about these things. I rarely have the mental bandwidth to do it these days. I have spurts of time and energy but that's it and a good discussion requires more than that. 

Plus I don't mean to gripe but what do you get out of those discussions in return for all of the thought you put into it? I expect to either get the crap beat out of me or be ignored. Neither option is very rewarding. I'm sure other people expect the same kind of reactions. I know I've treated people that way too. 

 

I guess most of us homeschool  because we are at heart educators. Those threads were closest my kind could get to “shop talk.” They were inspiration and absolutely affected the direction I took our homeschool. I miss the intellectual workouts. 

[Kareni]

11 minutes ago, theelfqueen said:

We love you @Susan Wise Bauer thanks for being an awesome host! 

A huge second to this!

Regards,

Kareni

[Kareni]

11 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

What is EFL?

Generally it refers to English as a foreign language; however, there may be another meaning in the post you quoted.

Regards,

Kareni

[Emba]

As of this year my DD returned to public school, so I am just here for the chat about other things. But even the last year of homeschooling, I spent a lot less Time on actual homeschooling threads and more in chat because in pretty much had figured out (finally) what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it and all the opinions were just not necessary at that point. I was also kind of burning out, And really needed NOT to think and talk about it all the time.

[cintinative]

I do always check the education boards. They just aren't super active. I do post questions every now and then.  

I do try to use Google and search old forum posts. So much ground has been covered in the many years this forum has existed.  I know people are busy so I try (but sometimes fail!) to not ask the same question others have asked. The pinned threads are excellent resources in high school.

Sometimes I wish there was a "drowning with land in sight homeschoolers" thread where we can go when we get overwhelmed with the day-to-day. 😃  

 

[Matryoshka]

9 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Also, PHONES! Arguing about philosophy is a whole lot more comfortable on a laptop than a phone.

I think this is actually huge.  When I joined the forum, I didn't even have a smartphone.  I'm not sure they were even a big thing generally yet.

When I started browsing more on my phone, I know my posting #s went way down, just because it's virtually impossible to have any kind of real, in-depth exchange over the phone.  So, when I'm on my phone it's either read-only or short answers.  I try to remember posts/threads I want to go back to and interact with more in depth when I get to the computer, but that ends up being way less than if I answered in the moment.

[brehon]

29 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Plus I don't mean to gripe but what do you get out of those discussions in return for all of the thought you put into it? I expect to either get the crap beat out of me or be ignored. Neither option is very rewarding. I'm sure other people expect the same kind of reactions. I know I've treated people that way too. 

Waving hi to a fellow GenX-er!

Personally I got a lot out of those threads, especially the more philosophical ones. Although there was certainly vehement disagreement and sometimes violent agreement (😎), those threads really made me think in ways I really hadn’t since my uni days. EsterMaria and others made my brain hurt in that “oh, it hurts, but it feels so good” way. And, yes, there were some changes I made because of those threads.

 I just remembered (as my new best friend — I mean, Amazon delivery guy — drove up) that I had made a, for me, “significant” curriculum change this year. I ordered a different Latin program for my 8 yo than my other kids used. However, old school that I am, I ordered Minimus. 🤓

 

[brehon]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Aww, but I am!! Math wars all the way!!

We can just save everyone some time and I’ll cede to your greater knowledge and experience. 😂

[marbel]

Well, I'm no longer homeschooling but even when I was, I figured out pretty quickly that I didn't really fit in on the education boards (despite the fact that I have used many of SWB's and other's classical materials, though maybe not in the most rigorous way). I remember a fair bit of eye-rolling toward other methods or philosophies, so I just stopped visiting. <shrug> It just wasn't for me. 

So I had other places to talk about education/homeschooling, but stayed here for the varied topics on the chat board.  There really is no other place that I've found that has the variety of topics that are presented here. 

 

[theelfqueen]

48 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I keep doing the same thing! 

I'm a huge SWB stan even though I'm not using any of her curricula now. I also love Julie Bogart but dislike every BW product I've ever purchased. 

 

 

Same, same... I've used WWS1 and HotAW and thought they were great, but am not currently using any SWB products. And I LOVE Julie Bogart's philosophy and her podcast and her IG feed ... but Bravewriter was not a fit for our family ... But The Brave Learner and Rethinking Schools are both amazing and in my re-read for inspiration list! And my recommend to everyone list. 

[catz]

I have been around  like 12 years on and off.  I have taken long breaks at times.  My youngest is 16 and I have a college student so I go to the high school/college boards at times, often to search.   My youngest is technically homeschooling, though I hope to transition her to primarily dual enrolling for her last 2 high school years.  Knock on wood for next fall.   I am also Gen-X, that doesn't seem like it should be rare here right?

Anyway - I used to really enjoy the GT and general education boards when my kids were younger.  And I love SWB's book and resources, we've used some and left some.  I'd consider us more eclectic than anything else.   My kids are out of the box learners, no one philosophy was going to work well for us.   I am a math person too (BS Math/Comp sci out of an engineering program, taken many grad level math classes.  My husband has a masters in a tech area as well) so I used to enjoy digging into math threads  and have many thoughts about math education.  I spend hours and hours researching topics of interest.  My kid applied to like 12 colleges as a homeschooler, many competitive with various requirements and I spent SO many hours on that process as a counselor, I've considered blogging and offering consultations on the process.  Oh - I have lots of thoughts about the ridiculousness of the competitive college application process.  Follow the money.  

A couple thoughts as another old timer.  I am much less passionate and more pragmatic about other people's choices.  Education is not one size fits all.  I really do think most parents have their kids long term best interests at heart.  Childhood isn't a race to the finish line and there is a lot more to raising a child to a physically and emotionally healthy, educated, prepared for the world adult than what math curriculum/philosophy you choose for your child in elementary school.   I've also seen some very great long term outcomes in some kids that would have been poo-poohed for their lack of rigor prior to age 12.   We have a vibrant secular community here and I have been very involved as a volunteer and have done teaching and tutoring over the years, worked with a couple different co-ops, and several non-profits/orgs so I have seen a few hundred secular homeschoolers over the years grow up. 

I've also seen families do 180's with kids especially during teen years.  From undoing grade skips, to going from being never-schoolers to being on the PTA at the neighborhood high school, to being very dogmatic about a particular educational path to being very free form and project based, etc.  

Anyway - I find people in the trenches rarely ever actually want to actually hear from someone with a forest through the trees perspective.   I rarely have the time to spend as long as I'd need to truly defend a thought and I often come through those threads feeling beat up and like my time is more valuable than that.  It seems like whoever has the most time to post often ends up with the loudest voice.  Time better spent on talking about cupcakes or coffee machines at this point in my life.  😂 I actually unfollowed a bunch of FB homeschool boards.  SO ungratifying.  But my FB homeschool friends are some of my favorites to follow including some I hooked up with initially here many years ago, many with teens to young adults now.  I do enjoy the mix of voices on the chat board though I do try to be mindful about giving too much time here.  

I do think the phone thing is an interesting point.  I had to my laptop to respond to this.  I mostly read, scroll, skim, search on my phone or iPad if I'm on.  Discussions on those smaller devices are just bound to be more shallow.  

Edited October 13, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[Matryoshka]

41 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I do always check the education boards. They just aren't super active. I do post questions every now and then.  

Am I the only one, that since the board switch-over, browses using the "Unread Content" feed rather than clicking individually into various boards?  I see everything from all the boards and my Clubs that way - I don't really pay any attention to or have any idea what board the thread I'm responding to was posted in.  Seems I mostly end up in Chat or sometimes College just because of where my life stage is.  But I just posted in a middle school science curriculum thread!

Edited October 13, 2020 by Matryoshka

[frogger]

2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Am I the only one, that since the board switch-over, browses using the "Unread Content" feed rather than clicking individually into various boards?  I see everything from all the boards and my Clubs that way - I don't really pay any attention to or have any idea what board the thread I'm responding to was posted in.  Seems I mostly end up in Chat or sometimes College just because of where my life stage is.  But I just posted in a middle school science curriculum thread!

There was always too many threads for me to do that but maybe next time I'm on my desktop I should see if there is a way to do that just for the education boards. They are slow enough to keep up with now. 

[Not_a_Number]

24 minutes ago, brehon said:

We can just save everyone some time and I’ll cede to your greater knowledge and experience. 😂

Boring!!! 😛 

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Am I the only one, that since the board switch-over, browses using the "Unread Content" feed rather than clicking individually into various boards?  I see everything from all the boards and my Clubs that way - I don't really pay any attention to or have any idea what board the thread I'm responding to was posted in.  Seems I mostly end up in Chat or sometimes College just because of where my life stage is.  But I just posted in a middle school science curriculum thread!

I just saw that, lol!!

[Not_a_Number]

21 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Anyway - I find people in the trenches rarely ever actually want to actually hear from someone with a forest through the trees perspective.

Any thoughts for me? 🙂 I’m in a funny position — I’ve had college teaching experience, I’ve worked with my now college-aged sister a lot in high school, but my oldest is just 8. So I think I have some perspective, but I’m sure I’ll have more as DD8 grows up. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Plus I don't mean to gripe but what do you get out of those discussions in return for all of the thought you put into it? I expect to either get the crap beat out of me or be ignored. Neither option is very rewarding. I'm sure other people expect the same kind of reactions. I know I've treated people that way too. 

Yeah, I’ve definitely occasionally refrained for posting more controversial stuff for that reason. On the other hand, I’ve loved reading other people’s controversial posts and have learned a lot from their perspectives... so perhaps I need to take a deep breath and dive in.

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I think the chat board thrives here because it is a place where we can be ourselves. Not so much for the other boards. 

Although to be fair, the COVID wars have tested that 😉 . 

[catz]

3 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I cannot imagine using any curriculum with 100% positive feelings towards it. This means that I can't stand the FB groups for specific curriculum. They only want 100% positive feedback. 

 

Oh yes this!  Totally agree.  I don't have a lot of patience for the cult like followings of some boards/curriculum postings and the pressure to just post things right in line with that.  Everything has pros and cons.  And some choices you make at point A really aren't going to matter that much at point B anyway.  

I don't know.  I pulled my kid out of public school for 2nd grade when we started.  I've always felt like I'm trying to make least bad choices for the kid in front of me right now.  Shoving my round kid into any one square box felt like sending him back to public school.  This is a kid who hit algebra before he could reliably tie his shoes.  🤣

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Oh yes this!  Totally agree.  I don't have a lot of patience for the cult like followings of some boards/curriculum postings and the pressure to just post things right in line with that.  Everything has pros and cons.  And some choices you make at point A really aren't going to matter that much at point B anyway.  

I don't know.  I pulled my kid out of public school for 2nd grade when we started.  I've always felt like I'm trying to make least bad choices for the kid in front of me right now.  Shoving my round kid into any one square box felt like sending him back to public school.  This is a kid who hit algebra before he could reliably tie his shoes.  🤣

Lol, I was definitely that kid. Both because I hit algebra early and tied my shoes late...

[Moonhawk]

12 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I would appreciate having a place to discuss educational philosophies. I don't have that IRL. I kind of began to have that with one IRL acquaintance but then we left our church and this person cut me out of her life. 

I'm a back and forth, zigzagging all of the place kind of a person with regards to my thinking and planning process. I like discussing things because that helps me to think things through. However, I think some (many?) people don't like that kind of approach. I've learned to keep my mouth shut most of the time. 

I cannot imagine using any curriculum with 100% positive feelings towards it. This means that I can't stand the FB groups for specific curriculum. They only want 100% positive feedback. 

But then I'm the person who objects to the pressure to rate my meal at Chilis as 5/outstanding. It's Chilis...it's fine for what it is but outstanding? No. But then I end up checking 5 because I don't want them to penalize the server. Sorry rambling here. 

It's hard to have a place to discuss things with women where disagreements and negativity is allowed. Women are socialized to police that kind of behavior in each other. So the discussions peter out when we realize this isn't a place where we can be ourselves. 

I think the chat board thrives here because it is a place where we can be ourselves. Not so much for the other boards. 

 

This is why in the comments box you write "One of the best meals I've had at a Chilis." The ol' backhanded compliment for the win!

I find, in response to the idea of discussing the philosophies, that I love the education boards and READING the educational philosophies, but since I don't keep up with the home school industry or culture or influential people, a lot of it is lost on me. I don't have a grounding in the history of the "great leaders and protagonists of the homeschool movement" so quoting to me that Dingleheimer Schmidt says the most important part of a curriculum is blah blah blah doesn't hold authority. Which maybe it should. But, basically, I can't really converse on the same level even if I have an opinion. DH and I based most of our own conclusions on more general books/authors about thinking, skills, and performance. Which has served us well but leaves me in the dark about a lot of terms/ideas bandied about.

So I usually keep my posts there very practical and "here is what I did/do" or "here was our approach." And I really do use the educational boards, but I search and pull up threads from 4 or 5 years ago and read through them, usually, since starting a new post hasn't always served me as well.

[catz]

39 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Any thoughts for me? 🙂 I’m in a funny position — I’ve had college teaching experience, I’ve worked with my now college-aged sister a lot in high school, but my oldest is just 8. So I think I have some perspective, but I’m sure I’ll have more as DD8 grows up. 

Oh not really!  🙂 I am not following anyone's particular paths super closely.  And I can tell you are engaged and loving parent for sure.  So that is just a winning combo!  ❤️  

In general over time, I just see that confident, socially mature, self motivated kids with engaged parents invested in their success will do well and that growing a life long learner goes further than grinding through things that maybe your kids aren't excited and engaged about at this moment in time.  Whoever said earlier in this thread that your curriculum issue is actually a relationship issue was totally right to me.  Homeschooling is a mutual respect kind of relationship that really can look different for every family.

 

[Amy Gen]

I’ve been homeschooling for over 20 years now and I still have a 5th and 9th grader at home. Not only do I not have questions about curriculum, but I kept everything, so I don’t even need to buy books for kids numbered 4 and 5. 
 

But I stopped posting on the educational boards a long time ago. One issue I had is that while I use classical curriculum, I have a very collaborative parenting style, so I didn’t fit with the rigid homeschoolers and I also didn’t fit in with the relaxed homeschoolers. I’m one of those dreaded people who don’t think even high schoolers need to “do school” 5 plus hours a day 5 days a week. I realized that one factor that is really not okay to talk about is natural academic ability and work ethic. Some kids really are bright enough not to need years and years on drills and spiraling curriculum, but that isn’t polite to say to a mom whose kid really does need it  

Another poster might insist that a math program is absolutely not rigorous enough for college prep, and yet, I have 3 adults who have done amazingly well in college and graduate school with my slacker teaching. How do you have a reasoned discussion with someone who believes that is impossible. 

One reason I need to be flexible may be that all 5 of my kids have anxiety which really shuts down learning. They actually learn more when I can take the pressure off and say, “Let’s just do 2 more problems and save the rest for another day.“

One thing that surprised me when my kids were applying for scholarships and jobs is what really made them stand out wasn’t academics but their hobbies and volunteer work and everything that they were doing when they weren’t “doing School”.

I structured my homeschool around the first edition of TWTM. I was gratified when I read Rethinking School, because SWB discussed ways that she ended up changing and adapting her plans and they were in the exact same areas that I did. 

I don’t know anyone in real life who homeschools without an umbrella school or charter school. Those parents (that I know) are really not interested in teaching and parenting philosophies. My friends who I used to have lively discussions with have all graduated all of their kids or put the rest in school. Life seems to change. Families change. Needs change, and I’m still doing what I love. 
 

I might just be pessimistic and old, but I really don’t see very many people interested in doing the hard work, the constant, sometimes exhausting hard work that is required to design and implement an excellent homeschool. 

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Oh not really!  🙂 I am not following anyone's particular paths super closely.  And I can tell you are engaged and loving parent for sure.  So that is just a winning combo!  ❤️  

I have temper issues. I'm otherwise an attuned parent, I think, or at least I try to be. But I have temper issues. It's a constant battle. 

9 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

In general over time, I just see that confident, socially mature, self motivated kids with engaged parents invested in their success will do well and that growing a life long learner goes further than grinding through things that maybe your kids aren't excited and engaged about at this moment in time.  Whoever said earlier in this thread that your curriculum issue is actually a relationship issue was totally right to me.  Homeschooling is a mutual respect kind of relationship that really can look different for every family.

Ah, yeah, we don't really do "grinding through things my kids aren't excited about," at least not yet -- DD8 is a motivated learner, and I'm an enthusiastic problem solver, so we've figured out ways to keep her engaged. (And I'm willing to go pretty far out of the box. Right now, her writing projects are all math proofs. She learned to add two digit numbers via learning binary.) 

I guess that's the bad side of rigor, eh? Forcing your kids to go through stuff that doesn't really work for them. I both value rigor and I value being attuned to one's kids. So I make my hits work hard and I'm not patient with them when they don't (see: temper issues.) But I also adjust my expectations constantly to what they actually like and can do. I want them to be successful and to enjoy learning. 

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, Amy Gen said:

One issue I had is that while I use classical curriculum, I have a very collaborative parenting style, so I didn’t fit with the rigid homeschoolers and I also didn’t fit in with the relaxed homeschoolers.

I'm not very collaborative day to day (I expect compliance on daily specifics), but I give my kids a LOT of input about what they do globally. So I also wind up not fitting in anywhere. Am I a rigid homeschooler or an unschooler? Who can say. I don't use curriculum, but I taught my kids to read early. My kids get tons of play time (and used to get tons of social time, pre-COVID), but I emphatically push them, and my 8 year old is doing math something like 4-5 grades ahead because she can. But she's currently building a blanket fort on my bed and I never assign her any reading -- she's not overworked 😉 . 

[catz]

Oh I totally value rigor.  My discussions in this regard have really changed over the years.  And my oldest especially was a great hoop jumper until age 11 or so and then we had to have some growing pains, some air head years, some transitions of me letting go and of him taking ownership. I think his teen years have been easier than many but parenting teens and young adults is just different.  And they all reach maturity at different ages - I totally buy into brain development continuing into the 20's).  I was glad I didn't grade skip him.  We had good academic and social resources and time and space was good.  And our state allows 2 free years of DE for qualified students.

My youngest has always made it her business to keep me hopping and to not be her brother.  I've always had to flex more for that one.  LOL.  But you know what?  Now at 16, I see her settling into her skin and actually craving more rigor, having some passion toward things, etc.  She is more like her older sibling than she would allowed herself to be when she was younger.  And in some ways is more socially mature and competent.  

Edited October 13, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I was glad I didn't grade skip him. 

Yeah, I was grade skipped, and I wouldn't have wanted that for my kids, just for social reasons if nothing else. But I figure as a homeschooler I can have an 8 year old working on algebra and also hanging out with slightly younger kids because that works well for her 🙂 . That was the reason I homeschooled -- I could imagine finding a school that matched her academically, and a school that matched her socially, but not both. 

[marbel]

10 minutes ago, Amy Gen said:

<snip>

But I stopped posting on the educational boards a long time ago. One issue I had is that while I use classical curriculum, I have a very collaborative parenting style, so I didn’t fit with the rigid homeschoolers and I also didn’t fit in with the relaxed homeschoolers. I’m one of those dreaded people who don’t think even high schoolers need to “do school” 5 plus hours a day 5 days a week. I realized that one factor that is really not okay to talk about is natural academic ability and work ethic. Some kids really are bright enough not to need years and years on drills and spiraling curriculum, but that isn’t polite to say to a mom whose kid really does need it  

<snip>

See, I think those things absolutely should be able to be discussed on a homeschooling board. I mean, people should be able to understand the some kids are better at some things than other kids and that very often it has nothing to do with the efforts or talent of the parent/teacher.  

I have one "natural speller" and one who relies on spellchecker for everything, so I see both sides of that one. But there are plenty of other areas where there can be vast differences. Math, of course. 

But this is where people get their notions of what is right and proper and can't conceive of anything different. One of my kids was a late reader. You wouldn't know it now. But so many people were scandalized because late reading meant either I was doing something wrong, or my kid was not very bright, or both. Actually it was neither. But it becomes not worth it to try to convince people that late reading can be OK. So people with early readers can be proud of themselves/their kids, and those with late readers end up ashamed and minimize that fact even though, in the long run, it has made no difference.  I think this may be changing now, but I remember very clearly how depressing it was when my kids were coming up.

[Skippy]

I also think it's because there are so many old timers here. I was probably the biggest expert on homeschooling when my oldest was in the 5th grade, and I knew everything there was to know about homeschooling and had all the answers. Now my youngest is in the 5th grade, and I now know enough to know that I don't know everything. It's like how the biggest experts on parenting are parents of newborns.

Now that I have so much experience, I am less likely to have a strong opinion about educational topics and much less likely to give advice. Unlike before, I realize now that there is no one best way of doing something and often there is no definitive answer to every question asked. For instance, one person may need to hear: "Don't take this so seriously. You don't have to do every subject every day." But someone else asking the same question may need to hear: "You must take this seriously! You must do every subject every day!"

So, I think the more experience you have on a subject, the less likely you are to actually give advice concerning that subject or argue that your way is the best/only way.

[Matryoshka]

 

1 hour ago, frogger said:

There was always too many threads for me to do that but maybe next time I'm on my desktop I should see if there is a way to do that just for the education boards. They are slow enough to keep up with now. 

I am probably on this board waaay too much, that I can usually keep up with threads (and spot new interesting ones) just by doing this... 

[Not_a_Number]

12 minutes ago, marbel said:

One of my kids was a late reader. You wouldn't know it now. But so many people were scandalized because late reading meant either I was doing something wrong, or my kid was not very bright, or both. Actually it was neither. But it becomes not worth it to try to convince people that late reading can be OK. So people with early readers can be proud of themselves/their kids, and those with late readers end up ashamed and minimize that fact even though, in the long run, it has made no difference.  I think this may be changing now, but I remember very clearly how depressing it was when my kids were coming up.

Well, right now, whenever I wade into reading discussions, I get people telling me that it's wrong to teach kids early 😄. So these things just shift. 

Honestly, I think a lot of comes down to "teach your actual kid." My kids have both basically enjoyed learning to read early, like reading to themselves, and aren't traumatized by the experience 😉 . But I also knew a kid at our local homeschooling center who had been taught to read at 4 and refused to read ever since (she was 6 when I knew her.) Definitely not a success for early teaching. 

So, as people have said: there are no "one size fits all" answers. People have thrown "developmentally inappropriate" at me before, and I imagine people have thrown "not rigorous" at others. And the thing is, sometimes those words DO apply. But people aren't discriminating about when to use them. When I'm told it's not developmentally appropriate to let my kid read the books she wants to or do the math she likes, I tend to bristle 😉 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Skippy said:

Unlike before, I realize now that there is no one best way of doing something and often there is no definitive answer to every question asked. For instance, one person may need to hear: "Don't take this so seriously. You don't have to do every subject every day." But someone else asking the same question may need to hear: "You must take this seriously! You must do every subject every day!"

So, I think the more experience you have on a subject, the less likely you are to actually give advice concerning that subject or argue that your way is the best/only way.

Very much this. Which is why I often try to get lots of information before I give advice, lol. But people are often more interested in easier answers like "use this curriculum and all will be well!" 

[catz]

1 hour ago, Skippy said:

 

So, I think the more experience you have on a subject, the less likely you are to actually give advice concerning that subject or argue that your way is the best/only way.

Yes, absolutely!  And aligns with Dunning-Kruger affect.  I suspect people who post from a broader experience level and perspective, understand what they don't know, and have good self awareness find this tone in many threads grating.  And I'm not trying to say everyone posting out there does not have a clue by any stretch.  Even if you have one 5 year old you are homeschooling, you know and love that 5 year old better than anyone else in the universe.  So maybe the one thing I would tell a new homeschooler is trust yourself and trust your kid.  

Just WAY too many people out on the interwebs right now have no desire to have a discussion with give and take but really just wants an echo chamber and are happy to talk over anyone messing with that vibe.

Ordinary Shoes, I also totally agree with that.  I do think a lot of published homeschool stuff is pablum and I've never gotten the hype over much of this stuff.   

My posting level today proves that if you sit down at a keyboard you can be way more prolific, wordy, and overbearing with your posting.  LOL.  😂

Edited October 13, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[Lady Florida.]

17 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Most of us have been here long enough that we don't have questions to ask.

My kid wasn't even school age and I could predict what answers would be given on the high school board, I had been reading along so much.

Yes, and some of us are long finished with homeschooling (my homeschooler is now 23) but we've "known" the people here for so long that we just don't want to leave. Even the people we disagree with are virtual friends. 

[Roadrunner]

41 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, right now, whenever I wade into reading discussions, I get people telling me that it's wrong to teach kids early 😄. So these things just shift. 

Honestly, I think a lot of comes down to "teach your actual kid." My kids have both basically enjoyed learning to read early, like reading to themselves, and aren't traumatized by the experience 😉 . But I also knew a kid at our local homeschooling center who had been taught to read at 4 and refused to read ever since (she was 6 when I knew her.) Definitely not a success for early teaching. 

So, as people have said: there are no "one size fits all" answers. People have thrown "developmentally inappropriate" at me before, and I imagine people have thrown "not rigorous" at others. And the thing is, sometimes those words DO apply. But people aren't discriminating about when to use them. When I'm told it's not developmentally appropriate to let my kid read the books she wants to or do the math she likes, I tend to bristle 😉 

This is why we have Accelerated Board. I think it’s understood here and kids on that board are a different sort. 😉
I think overall (outside of those Davidson kids) the trend is either super enthusiastic parent who can’t wait to get started or Silicon Valley type overaggressive and over competitive parents. Now each of those groups also contain Davidson genius kids (what is it called, overlapping Ven diagrams 😂), but I think some of us have seen too many of those types and get a gut reaction to scream when we see phonics imposed on 3 year olds. 

[Not_a_Number]

12 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

This is why we have Accelerated Board. I think it’s understood here and kids on that board are a different sort. 😉
I think overall (outside of those Davidson kids) the trend is either super enthusiastic parent who can’t wait to get started or Silicon Valley type overaggressive and over competitive parents. Now each of those groups also contain Davidson genius kids (what is it called, overlapping Ven diagrams 😂), but I think some of us have seen too many of those types and get a gut reaction to scream when we see phonics imposed on 3 year olds. 

Hahahaha, it’s not that I have nothing in common with those groups... I’d just never continue if it didn’t work. I had serious misgivings with DD4 and had to slow way down, to make sure she was successful... but she had asked and asked. But she now reads happily to herself, so it’s hard not to call that a win. And we have time to go through phonics at her pace (which is like a third of DD8’s.) 

Soooo.... what does it normally look like when phonics are imposed on a 3 year old? 😄 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Roadrunner]

16 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

Yes, and some of us are long finished with homeschooling (my homeschooler is now 23) but we've "known" the people here for so long that we just don't want to leave. Even the people we disagree with are virtual friends. 

I think that’s another thing. I so often think of ChrisilisAcamdemy and how/what her two girls are doing. Hoping Shanon is recovering well and wondering what direction life is taking her. It’s crazy, but years of reading her posts and I genuinely care. Also thinking how swimme dude is doing or where is lickymomma’s brilliant little girl... see, it’s like losing old friends. 

[Roadrunner]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Hahahaha, it’s not that I have nothing in common with those groups... I’d just never continue if it didn’t work. I had serious misgivings with DD4 and had to slow way down, to make sure she was successful... but she had asked and asked. But she now reads happily to herself, so it’s hard not to call that a win. And we have time to go through phonics at her pace (which was like a third of DD8’s.) 

Soooo.... what does it normally look like when phonics are imposed on a 3 year old? 😄 

Not pretty. It doesn’t look pretty. 😉

For me some of this is cultural. Having grown up in a world without internet or educational programming, first time anybody explained to me the alphabet, I was in school, when I was five. So I approached my kids the same way. I was working full time. Mine learned the alphabet at 2 (we aren’t sure exactly how but suspect Barney) and would go around spelling things out all day. We found it amusing, but it hasn’t occurred to either me or DH to actually teach him to read until somebody bothered with it at preschool. He was reading fluently at 5 when he entered K. His brother read at 4 but mostly because he was taught by his older brother. 
We still did phonics afterwards to comply with SWB guidelines. 
So when I look back, I wonder, would it have been advantageous to pay attention to my older boy sooner? Naaaa, I don’t think so. He had fun on monkey bars. 🙂

 

I see lots of parent competition now. People are almost bragging whose kid can do what at what age. Poor kids are trying.... I won’t say more. I don’t hang out with those groups anymore at all. 

[Not_a_Number]

11 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

So when I look back, I wonder, would it have been advantageous to pay attention to my older boy sooner? Naaaa, I don’t think so. He had fun on monkey bars. 🙂

To be fair, so did DD8! It’s not like little kid reading instruction takes any time. I did take her out less when she was 3 than I ought to have, but that’s cause I was pregnant and super nauseous, not because our academics took much time.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

11 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Having grown up in a world without internet or educational programming, first time anybody explained to me the alphabet, I was in school, when I was five.

My grandma taught me at age 3 🙂 . So it’s not entirely cultural.

[marbel]

16 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

<snip>

I see lots of parent competition now. People are almost bragging whose kid can do what at what age. Poor kids are trying.... I won’t say more. I don’t hang out with those groups anymore at all. 

Parental bragging is nothing new.  I think homeschooling can take it to a whole 'nother level than "regular" bragging though.  😁

[catz]

That's how my kids were too,  roadrunner.  My oldest went from "reading is dumb" to reading chapter books within months and was carrying around Harry Potter books everywhere by 6.  My youngest insisted on having writing workbooks at 3, learned to write a little and was zero to 100 on reading a little later.  I never thought about bringing out a curriculum.  We were doing read alouds and playing, my kids knew their letters and alphabets and basic phonics very early just from minimal access to games.  And I think it is fine to teach a kid who wants to learn if you're having a good time together.   And I also think it's fine to wait and isn't likely to matter much at the end of the day regardless of timing.  Reading should be fun. I didn't learn particularly early either but was on/off with it and was always in the library once I was there.  It was not remotely on my parents radar to introduce their kids to reading early.  

I  gave up on most GT boards early though I made some great connections through GT communities online and locally.  The competitive vibe just doesn't work for me.  I've taught/tutored many groups of GT kids over the years and some parents are fairly blind about their own kids weaknesses and seem a bit over invested about the numbers on their kids curriculum.   My oldest hit PG levels on some testing he did before leaving public school though I am too cheap and not curious enough to pay what it costs locally to test kids, especially kids that weren't necessarily showing 2E concerns.  More garden variety sensory stuff, asynchronous issues, and quirkiness.  

[Roadrunner]

9 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

My grandma taught me at age 3 🙂 . So it’s not entirely cultural.

Was she a teacher? 
I am just curious.

 

Nobody around me did it. Or maybe I was neglected. 😆

[frogger]

16 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Not pretty. It doesn’t look pretty. 😉

 

 

I see lots of parent competition now. People are almost bragging whose kid can do what at what age. Poor kids are trying.... I won’t say more. I don’t hang out with those groups anymore at all. 

I think this is the key Number.  You are just excited to learn with your daughter and explore etc. But there are many who homeschool so their kids can be "smart". They are competitive.

 

Or they might just be in fear if they hear all the other children are reading.

When people said their children were already reading I always wondered what that meant. Bob books? Shakespeare? The Cat in the Hat?  The Theory of Moral Sentiments? Did they understand what they were reading?

I can say I play guitar but getting through one method book and knowing a few bluegrass strums doesn't make me Jimmy Hendrix and I think mixing the bragging with others fear turns into a mess. 

[Roadrunner]

13 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

To be fair, so did DD8! It’s not like little kid reading instruction takes any time. I did take her out less when she was 3 than I ought to have, but that’s cause I was pregnant and super nauseous, not because our academics took much time.

And I am completely not disagreeing with you here. I am musing. Now when I look back, I know where I have made a big mistake. My younger kid ended up with extraordinary musical talent. Had he started his instrument at 4 instead of at 10, that would have made potentially a tremendous difference. He is so talented that he caught up, but I can’t forgive myself and often think where we would have been if I had been on my game. 
Now comparatively speaking I don’t think I would have gotten much out of moving my DS’s reading age from 5 down to 3. And that’s not to say if I had another kid, me being an enthusiastic educator and a stay at home mom, I wouldn’t be tempted to get shiny books and start earlier. 😉 

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, frogger said:

I think this is the key Number.  You are just excited to learn with your daughter and explore etc. But there are many who homeschool so their kids can be "smart". They are competitive.

 

Or they might just be in fear if they hear all the other children are reading.

When people said their children were already reading I always wondered what that meant. Bob books? Shakespeare? The Cat in the Hat?  The Theory of Moral Sentiments? Did they understand what they were reading?

I can say I play guitar but getting through one method book and knowing a few bluegrass strums doesn't make me Jimmy Hendrix and I think mixing the bragging with others fear turns into a mess. 

Yes and yes and yes. Add to that “your child is reading at this and that grade level.” Never understood it. I call a child is reading when he can read what interests them. In K it was frog and toad and whatever mouse was in motorcycle. And oh Shel  Sylverstein poetry (over and over and over again). Can’t remember. In third grade it was entire Lord of the Rings. Isn’t reading level more of an interest level?