changes in homeschooling curriculum

[annegables]

In the "What would a minimalist homeschool education look like", @prairiewindmomma said "Back in the 80s everything was classroom based---then it swung to being all literature based/multi-level in the late 90s/early 2000s---and now we're swinging back to things designed for specific grades with lots of components.  I think part of this is because of the influx of charter school dollars, but that's a different thread. 🙂"

And I wanted to start a separate discussion on this. @prairiewindmomma, I would love it if you would elaborate on this statement. I have no experience in "back in the day" curriculum, so this is an idea I am unfamiliar with. However, I have seen the specific everything and it kind of drives me nuts. The further along I get I get in homeschooling, the more I lean toward wanting to educate myself so that I can competently design curriculum for my kids. 

How this looked practically is that I purchased WWE levels 2 and three for my kids...and ended up regretting it. I appreciate the curriculum and it helped me gain a solid understanding on scope, sequence, and writing goals. But I really wish I had just purchased the instructor text. That way I could still get the scope and sequence, but with the materials I am already working with. I have realized that I needed some hand-holding, especially at the beginning, but not as much as I thought I would need. 

[8filltheheart]

I'm not sure of the specific differences that @prairiewindmomma sees, but based on her post, I agree with the general sentiment. It is a huge topic with lots of nuances but a very brief and less than completely accurate reflection is something like the following:

When we first started homeschooling, buying curriculum could be difficult. Most textbook publishers refused to sell to homeschoolers. Abeka, Saxon, Rod and Staff, and Horizons are the main ones I can think of that included homeschoolers. (Singapore was not even a thing back then. Our oldest ds was in 6th grade the first time SM math books were available.) There were very specific providers that sold boxed curriculum (school-in-a-box.......reminiscent of the Calvert thread 😉 ) to homeschoolers. There were a couple of homeschooling catalogs (Greenleaf Press and Emmanuel Books are the 2 main ones that come to mind.)

Homeschooling conventions became big deals. They offered lots of workshops on how to go about teaching whatever. Homeschool published materials boomed.  These were things like unit studies (Konos, Weaver, Amanda Bennett, etc), multilevel family-oriented materials (names escape me but they were typically themed programs where all levels were working in the same subjects just at different depths......I guess Tapestry of Grace sort of falls into this category but is more of a complete program than many of the others that just gave general framework suggestions). Most of these programs were not "school in a box" bc they were more sources of ideas, etc that needed to be selected, fleshed out, and mom-directed/planned.

You also had books like Designing Your Own Classical Curriculum and the WTM that gave ideas on how to create individualized plans around the specific needs of each child.  It wasn't pre-planned. It didn't come in a box. It was mom-designed, family controlled, and nothing needed to grade leveled. It was about matching resources and child ability.

Literature-based programs like Sonlight were complete programs but not textbook based. CM also grew in popularity and her works were republished. Lots of lit-themed/nature-based programs became popular amg the CM crowds.

Then you had homeschool marketed curriculum that became more like school in a box (like MP). Many of these marketers ended up starting online schools that function, well, like schools (grade levels, institutionalized instruction). (Both MODG (from the publisher's of Designing Your Own Classical Curriculum) and WTMA are reflections of general book ideas that in turn also became providers. MODG is a complete "school" that requires testing to place into grade levels. Lots of oversight and lots of control.) 

Full circle.

 

 

 

 

 

[lewelma]

Very interesting 8. We only entered in 2003, and I just bought the first edition WTM and ran with it. She did not recommend curriculum in the first edition, so I designed my own and adapted to my kids. 

Edited December 8, 2019 by lewelma

[8filltheheart]

5 hours ago, lewelma said:

Very interesting 8. We only entered in 2003, and I just bought the first edition WTM and ran with it. She did not recommend curriculum in the first edition, so I designed my own and adapted to my kids. 

The first ed of WTM was not published until 1999.  I was well into my own groove by then. I remember the first time I saw DYOCC. It was just a thin bunch of papers stapled together that a friend had. (Now I mentally categorize MODG with Seton.)

[....]

I agree with whoever wrote about the charter school money affecting the curriculum market.  I think a lot of curricula has doubled in price and I'm thinking that's why.

My sisters homeschooled in the early 90s and my mom says that there just wasn't anywhere to buy curriculum.  She would go to Barnes and Nobles (lol) and buy my sisters' schoolbooks.  They didn't have any homeschool groups where they lived or anything like that.  The school superintendent told my mom not to let my sisters be seen outdoors during school hours or someone might call the police.  

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with previous posters; the kinds of curricula available, or the "waves" of style of materials, has evolved along with the homeschool movement itself. We started homeschooling in 2000, so we jumped in right at the moment there was an explosion of material being created BY homeschoolers FOR homeschoolers -- things like the Beautiful Feet Geography (or History) guides + living books, the Writing Strands and Wordsmith series for informal/non-textbook-based writing,  Mary Pecci's informal reading and LA program, etc.

Partly due to DSs' specific needs, and to my teaching style (which is to create/adapt rather than use scripted/formal materials), those programs that were more open-ended allowed me to adapt/add/drop worked best. I also created a lot of things from scratch, taking inspiration from some of those materials that were "by homeschoolers for homeschoolers".

Online classes have also made a big impact on the homeschooling community. That "wave" broke big time onto the scene about 10 years ago. It started off largely for high school and for core subjects (such as English (Lit. & Writing), Math, and Science), and has spread out into Social Studies, Foreign Language, and many types of  Electives and "specialty" classes -- plus there are online classes very commonly available now for middle school and even upper elementary grades now. Online classes have had the effect of swinging back towards more traditional classroom style of learning, and classroom style of materials and output (papers, quizzes/tests).

In addition to Classical Conversations, I've also seen the hybrid or university model schools make a big impact here on homeschooling. I see those options as appealing to families who don't like their local public/charter school options, can't afford private school, and either don't have the time, the confidence, or the ability to completely oversee their children's home education or create (or even just tweak) learning materials. Those option have also had the effect of swinging families back towards more traditional classroom materials and textbooks.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Lori D.

[Momto6inIN]

I've only been doing this since 2012, but to me the biggest difference I see is the motivation behind why people choose to hs in the first place. When I first started it was mostly people who either had deep religious convictions or people who had deep educational convictions or both. People who chose to hs were *invested* in the decision because it was still seen as a very "out there" thing to do. Now it a more mainstream choice and so I see lots more people choosing to hs because they are vaguely dissatisfied with the ps in some way, whereas before these people would have kept heir kids in ps and just complained about it 😉 They choose to hs because it is seen as a viable choice, but they aren't necessarily invested in the idea.

[lewelma]

5 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Online classes have had the effect of swinging back towards more traditional classroom style of learning, and classroom style of materials and output (papers, quizzes/tests).

This. My boys and I have loved homeschooling because we learned without assessment. No quizzes, tests, or grades of any kind until 11th and 12th grade. I have come to believe that heavy assessment often destroys engagement and internal motivation - and puts you into the 'rigorous busy work' that the other thread has been discussing. 

[lewelma]

NZ could act as a control for this experiment.  We have no Co-ops, no hybrid schools, no charter schools, and no online schools. We do not have homeschool curriculum that is created for NZ -- our market is just too small.  So I don't see what you guys are seeing. 

The biggest change over the 15 years I have been homeschooling is that there are more unschoolers and more kids with learning disabilities in the homeschool community. I don't actually know any kid who is not in 11th or 12th grade that uses a set curriculum, with the exception of a few friends who use ACE or ATI for religious reasons. Some people will use MUS or Sequential Spelling, but that is about it. Most people here just go to the library. Some people I know use the Bravewriter philosophy but it is not really a curriculum.

We get some money from the government - $1200 for the first kid per year, with a sliding scale down to $400 for the 4th and more kids. So there is not the same drive to join a group to get money as there is in the US, because we all get money. And university entrance is based on national exams in 11th and 12th grade from clear cut content in a variety of fields your kid can choose from.  So students here also don't do 9th or 10th grade online as they don't matter. 

Just interesting to compare. 

[annegables]

2 hours ago, lewelma said:

This. My boys and I have loved homeschooling because we learned without assessment. No quizzes, tests, or grades of any kind until 11th and 12th grade. I have come to believe that heavy assessment often destroys engagement and internal motivation - and puts you into the 'rigorous busy work' that the other thread has been discussing. 

This is so reassuring to hear. I live in a place where I can go to a park, throw a rock, and hit a homeschooler. And there is so much trying to do assessment the way it is done in schools. It is hard to buck this system. Which is an odd thing to say because homeschoolers already buck the system. If a person learns without being assessed (via test, or something "official"), is it legitimate? (To play off the "If a tree falls in the forest" question). While the tree/forest question seems absurd, when it comes to learning and assessment, the shoe is on the other foot. 

[annegables]

6 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

I've only been doing this since 2012, but to me the biggest difference I see is the motivation behind why people choose to hs in the first place. When I first started it was mostly people who either had deep religious convictions or people who had deep educational convictions or both. People who chose to hs were *invested* in the decision because it was still seen as a very "out there" thing to do. Now it a more mainstream choice and so I see lots more people choosing to hs because they are vaguely dissatisfied with the ps in some way, whereas before these people would have kept heir kids in ps and just complained about it 😉 They choose to hs because it is seen as a viable choice, but they aren't necessarily invested in the idea.

At parks, I strike up conversations with other moms, and when they find out I homeschool, many express deep dissatisfaction with our current education system and say they are thinking about homeschooling. And it isnt like I am being forceful in my opinions or anything; I am a "do what works for your family" type of person. There are a whole lot of people where I live who are trying to figure out how to change the educational landscape for their kids.

[Momto6inIN]

12 minutes ago, annegables said:

At parks, I strike up conversations with other moms, and when they find out I homeschool, many express deep dissatisfaction with our current education system and say they are thinking about homeschooling. And it isnt like I am being forceful in my opinions or anything; I am a "do what works for your family" type of person. There are a whole lot of people where I live who are trying to figure out how to change the educational landscape for their kids.

I feel like people are often choosing to hs now primarily as an attempt to escape something negative (though they may be aware of and appreciate some of the positive benefits of hs'ing), whereas in the past they were more often choosing to hs primarily for the positive benefits of it (though they may have been aware of and wanted to avoid some of the negative effects of ps). It seems like a subtle difference, but it's there.

And to the point of the OP, that subtle shift in thinking has definite drastic consequences in what kind of education they are looking for and what kind of materials they want. And so the market has supplied those wants.

[Momto6inIN]

8 hours ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

But a lot of them don't even know they have options. I think that has been the most bewildering part of all of this. People don't even LOOK. They just do what friend/pastor's wife/neighbor are doing. 

This mystifies me too. But I guess most people (me included until I started to look into hs'ing) don't really look into or question why they put their kids into ps either. They're 5, so they go to school. End of story. So maybe it's not really surprising that if those same people turn to hs'ing for some reason that they do kind of the same thing and just choose what people they know are using.

It took a MAJOR shift in thinking for me to get into the mentality that I can make my kids' education whatever I want it to be. I am still working on that shift (as anybody who has ready my recent science threads can attest lol)

[annegables]

3 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

This mystifies me too. But I guess most people (me included until I started to look into hs'ing) don't really look into or question why they put their kids into ps either. They're 5, so they go to school. End of story. So maybe it's not really surprising that if those same people turn to hs'ing for some reason that they do kind of the same thing and just choose what people they know are using.

It took a MAJOR shift in thinking for me to get into the mentality that I can make my kids' education whatever I want it to be. I am still working on that shift (as anybody who has ready my recent science threads can attest lol)

I put my kids in public school because I had a great public education and because I believed in the goals of public school. I wanted my kids to be a positive influence there. I wanted us to be involved members of a community that needs involved parents. I know many parents like this.

I remember feeling a sense of bewilderment and disillusionment as I realized the local school was failing my kid. I tried working with the system because I philosophically believed in it. I did not agree with removing good kids from a system that so desperately needs them. And I was forced to acknowledge that this system failed my kids. This realization brought me to my knees and upended an entire way of thinking for me. I felt betrayed. I also realized that this whole time I thought that they wanted me and my kids, and our stable family and high test scores (in a not-good school). But they didnt. We were a burden for them. And I was not a demanding parent! 

Now I am like, "fool me once..."

I have done a 180deg change and now I homeschool for philosophical reasons, as opposed to just fleeing conventional schools. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by annegables
added more info

[Momto6inIN]

1 hour ago, annegables said:

I put my kids in public school because I had a great public education and because I believed in the goals of public school. I wanted my kids to be a positive influence there. I wanted us to be involved members of a community that needs involved parents. I know many parents like this.

I remember feeling a sense of bewilderment and disillusionment as I realized the local school was failing my kid. I tried working with the system because I philosophically believed in it. I did not agree with removing good kids from a system that so desperately needs them. And I was forced to acknowledge that this system failed my kids. This realization brought me to my knees and upended an entire way of thinking for me. I felt betrayed. I also realized that this whole time I thought that they wanted me and my kids, and our stable family and high test scores (in a not-good school). But they didnt. We were a burden for them. And I was not a demanding parent! 

Now I am like, "fool me once..."

I have done a 180deg change and now I homeschool for philosophical reasons, as opposed to just fleeing conventional schools. 

Good for you! 😊 That is not my experience with most people I know, so it's interesting to hear a different perspective. 

[annegables]

24 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

Good for you! 😊 That is not my experience with most people I know, so it's interesting to hear a different perspective. 

Oh, dear, I dont think I was very clear. I forgot to include in my post that you quoted that I was agreeing with you as to what I saw. Your observations are my observations. With homeschooling, people are just blindly trusting all the homeschooling classes springing up out here and all the fancy curriculum. I am much more cautious about what I trust now.

[annegables]

44 minutes ago, Plum said:

 

I have worked at breaking the educational mold. It is a little scary to think outside the box. Recently, I've been asking myself more and more questions. Why the 5 paragraph essay? Why force writing paragraphs so early? Why take tests? Why study subjects in a certain order? How do I know they are learning? Is reading with discussions enough? Can I go deep in one topic and work around that?  How do I envision their education as they get older? What's important to me? To them? How will this all fit in with the future workforce? How does skills vs content work with a dyslexic? 

 

These have been my recent questions, as well! Except the dyslexic part. I am so thankful for the people on this board who have walked this journey, launched children who I deem "successful", and have no major regrets. 

[prairiewindmomma]

8Fill's answer is spot on! I'll try to add a bit more info. I'm sorry I don't have time to edit this and be really thoughtful about what I say right now, but it's a crazy week and I didn't want to ignore your ping...

I'll add a bit about one aspect that I think you want covered from the other thread, and that is how the entrance of charter schools has changed homeschooling....   Some time ago (more than twenty years ago), a number of accreditation programs came into existence. Because homeschooling in many states leads to an unaccredited diploma, parents often sent their kids to get a GED at the end of their studies.  A number of universities at the time required it for admission.  A GED, however, had a somewhat negative stigma attached to it.  Parents could choose to dual-enroll in a cc (which often had rolling open admissions) or they could create huge admissions packets with work samples, long book lists, etc. to try to prove that their student had been adequately and rigorously prepared for university studies. I believe that the NCAA also had various rules about playing that figured into the drive to create a third option for accredited diplomas. 

Some private schools created an accreditation wing for homeschooled families. They either directly enrolled into the "umbrella school" or they paid a chunk of money to have their curricula approved for by the school and thus the school would issue an accredited diploma.  Some examples of umbrella schools that were well known were: Clonlara, Keystone, North Atlantic Regional High School, etc. Pennsylvania Homeschoolers could fall into this category, though they later evolved.

I think as homeschooling grew and as more families had the internet in their homes, the market exploded. We saw a split into wholly online schools (many of which were accredited) and into a pay-to-play market.  As far as online schools go, many of these early programs were things like K12.  They were private products from a company being sold to school districts. School districts could receive from their respective states the same per capita amount per students, but the overhead costs were much lower than in brick and mortar schools. In other words, shrinking school districts (like in rural parts of states) could bring in additional money to keep their districts afloat when they otherwise would have been consolidated with other districts. These districts were invented to grow their programs rapidly to bring in additional revenue without a lot of thought as to how rapid expansion would affect the quality of education being provided. Many, many states have online state-accredited schools based out of tiny school districts with the majority of their students spread not only throughout the state, but also centered out of large metro areas.  As the online market matured, we've seen huge gaps in quality between programs. While many programs are affiliated with Florida Virtual School or Odysseyware (ie it's the same people producing content and materials through a proliferation of schools), the actual results from schools varies wildly. Part of this, I believe, is that students entering into online schools tend to be those who weren't thriving in their brick and mortar environment---they have learning differences or poor foundations for learning. Part of this, though, is that schools are administered differently with differing amounts of support.  Because many of these charter schools aren't generating students who are performing on level, we've seen some tension between school and state and families as to how they should be monitored and funded.  We also see a lot of tension between brick and mortar schools and online only schools as families flee brick and mortar in some areas and move to online programs.  I think this is why we are starting to see new hybrid programs where some school districts are offering partial enrollment. My school district has a new program where I can bring my kids in for gym, art, and a couple of hours of tutoring support a week. 

Many of these same online schools (K12, etc.) also offer products directly to parents for purchase.  You can choose to purchase materials, or you can do a single (or multiple) class enrollment outside of having to formally enroll in a school. Pennsylvania Homeschoolers was one of the first programs to offer pay-to-play curricula and test prep for families. PA originally marketed itself as primarily AP test prep. (AP and CLEP tests being a way to earn college credit, further bolster unaccredited homeschool high school diplomas, etc.)As the homeschool market grew, more homeschool providers---many of whom were originally paper curricula based--have started to offer online classes for family as a way to provide services to families who are willing to pay to offload some of the work burden and to ensure rigorous studies for their students. WTMA and other online academies are filling this demand.

Some online schools allow families to pick and choose materials (particularly for elementary students) if they meet certain criteria. They provide a funding allowance, and families can pick from lists or ask to have something approved.  A number of homeschool companies now market materials for certain grades to try to meet this market niche. The online schools often provide a generous allowance--much more than many homeschool families can themselves budget--and a dynamic has evolved. Families that would once homeschool privately have joined these online/charter schools in order to purchase materials that they would normally buy themselves. Curricula providers provide a lot of components to their products because they can earn a higher margin of profit by selling kits.  Online schools continue to expand enrollment and be able to fund this generous budget, which draws in more previously private families. Thus, curricula providers continue to market themselves to this niche rather than to the homeschool families who previously had a scribbled list of things to check out from the library, a few math textbooks, etc. 

 

 

 

[annegables]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

8Fill's answer is spot on! I'll try to add a bit more info. I'm sorry I don't have time to edit this and be really thoughtful about what I say right now, but it's a crazy week and I didn't want to ignore your ping...

I'll add a bit about one aspect that I think you want covered from the other thread, and that is how the entrance of charter schools has changed homeschooling....   Some time ago (more than twenty years ago), a number of accreditation programs came into existence. Because homeschooling in many states leads to an unaccredited diploma, parents often sent their kids to get a GED at the end of their studies.  A number of universities at the time required it for admission.  A GED, however, had a somewhat negative stigma attached to it.  Parents could choose to dual-enroll in a cc (which often had rolling open admissions) or they could create huge admissions packets with work samples, long book lists, etc. to try to prove that their student had been adequately and rigorously prepared for university studies. I believe that the NCAA also had various rules about playing that figured into the drive to create a third option for accredited diplomas. 

Some private schools created an accreditation wing for homeschooled families. They either directly enrolled into the "umbrella school" or they paid a chunk of money to have their curricula approved for by the school and thus the school would issue an accredited diploma.  Some examples of umbrella schools that were well known were: Clonlara, Keystone, North Atlantic Regional High School, etc. Pennsylvania Homeschoolers could fall into this category, though they later evolved.

I think as homeschooling grew and as more families had the internet in their homes, the market exploded. We saw a split into wholly online schools (many of which were accredited) and into a pay-to-play market.  As far as online schools go, many of these early programs were things like K12.  They were private products from a company being sold to school districts. School districts could receive from their respective states the same per capita amount per students, but the overhead costs were much lower than in brick and mortar schools. In other words, shrinking school districts (like in rural parts of states) could bring in additional money to keep their districts afloat when they otherwise would have been consolidated with other districts. These districts were invented to grow their programs rapidly to bring in additional revenue without a lot of thought as to how rapid expansion would affect the quality of education being provided. Many, many states have online state-accredited schools based out of tiny school districts with the majority of their students spread not only throughout the state, but also centered out of large metro areas.  As the online market matured, we've seen huge gaps in quality between programs. While many programs are affiliated with Florida Virtual School or Odysseyware (ie it's the same people producing content and materials through a proliferation of schools), the actual results from schools varies wildly. Part of this, I believe, is that students entering into online schools tend to be those who weren't thriving in their brick and mortar environment---they have learning differences or poor foundations for learning. Part of this, though, is that schools are administered differently with differing amounts of support.  Because many of these charter schools aren't generating students who are performing on level, we've seen some tension between school and state and families as to how they should be monitored and funded.  We also see a lot of tension between brick and mortar schools and online only schools as families flee brick and mortar in some areas and move to online programs.  I think this is why we are starting to see new hybrid programs where some school districts are offering partial enrollment. My school district has a new program where I can bring my kids in for gym, art, and a couple of hours of tutoring support a week. 

Many of these same online schools (K12, etc.) also offer products directly to parents for purchase.  You can choose to purchase materials, or you can do a single (or multiple) class enrollment outside of having to formally enroll in a school. Pennsylvania Homeschoolers was one of the first programs to offer pay-to-play curricula and test prep for families. PA originally marketed itself as primarily AP test prep. (AP and CLEP tests being a way to earn college credit, further bolster unaccredited homeschool high school diplomas, etc.)As the homeschool market grew, more homeschool providers---many of whom were originally paper curricula based--have started to offer online classes for family as a way to provide services to families who are willing to pay to offload some of the work burden and to ensure rigorous studies for their students. WTMA and other online academies are filling this demand.

Some online schools allow families to pick and choose materials (particularly for elementary students) if they meet certain criteria. They provide a funding allowance, and families can pick from lists or ask to have something approved.  A number of homeschool companies now market materials for certain grades to try to meet this market niche. The online schools often provide a generous allowance--much more than many homeschool families can themselves budget--and a dynamic has evolved. Families that would once homeschool privately have joined these online/charter schools in order to purchase materials that they would normally buy themselves. Curricula providers provide a lot of components to their products because they can earn a higher margin of profit by selling kits.  Online schools continue to expand enrollment and be able to fund this generous budget, which draws in more previously private families. Thus, curricula providers continue to market themselves to this niche rather than to the homeschool families who previously had a scribbled list of things to check out from the library, a few math textbooks, etc. 

 

 

 

This was a wonderful explanation. 

I will add that a writing goal I have for my kids is that they can produce well-thought out written work, with organized sentences and paragraphs, about a topic they are knowledgeable in, like you have here.

The bolded explains so much.

[Ellie]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:44 AM, annegables said:

In the "What would a minimalist homeschool education look like", @prairiewindmomma said "Back in the 80s everything was classroom based---then it swung to being all literature based/multi-level in the late 90s/early 2000s---and now we're swinging back to things designed for specific grades with lots of components.  I think part of this is because of the influx of charter school dollars, but that's a different thread. 🙂"

And I wanted to start a separate discussion on this. @prairiewindmomma, I would love it if you would elaborate on this statement. I have no experience in "back in the day" curriculum, so this is an idea I am unfamiliar with. However, I have seen the specific everything and it kind of drives me nuts. The further along I get I get in homeschooling, the more I lean toward wanting to educate myself so that I can competently design curriculum for my kids. 

How this looked practically is that I purchased WWE levels 2 and three for my kids...and ended up regretting it. I appreciate the curriculum and it helped me gain a solid understanding on scope, sequence, and writing goals. But I really wish I had just purchased the instructor text. That way I could still get the scope and sequence, but with the materials I am already working with. I have realized that I needed some hand-holding, especially at the beginning, but not as much as I thought I would need. 

Well, only California has home-based charter schools  that give stipends to parents or just buy the materials that the parents want, so I'm not sure that statement would hold true overall.

I started hsing in 1982. The only Official School materials we could find were published for schools, but KONOS was written in 1984? The Weaver was written around the same time. Unit studies and other hands-on things became quite popular in the late 80s (anyone remember Math-It and Winston Grammar?); KONOS co-ops began (and there were some who said it wasn't possible to homeschool without a co-op, but I digress) In the late 90s, I'm not sure we can make a blanket statement about "everything" being literature based. Beautiful Feet Books started in the late 80s; I guess Sonlight started some time in the 90s. But I think Cadron Creek started in the late 90s, as well, and that's all unit studies.

I think the rise of classical and Latin and whatnot happened in the 90s in the San Francisco Bay area, which is where I lived and so the only place I can talk about. :-) The Latin Road to Reading and Whatnot started in the early 90s.

What I have seen is the increase in co-ops, which often supersede or replace support groups. That makes me sad. :-(

Homeschoolers have always referred to their children by grade level rather than age, more often than not, even thought they say grade level isn't important. Some of us have held fast to the practice of referring to children by--wait for it--their ages, but publishers are going to put out what their customers want, and the customers just can't give up grade levels.

[Quercus]

7 hours ago, Ellie said:

Well, only California has home-based charter schools  that give stipends to parents or just buy the materials that the parents want, so I'm not sure that statement would hold true overall.

While California has a huge market, which would lend credence to the previous statement even by itself, plenty of other states have options they call charter schools where parents can decide what to spend outside (of their income) funds on. There's obviously a market, since some curriculum companies, like Memoria Press, have opened charter school divisions. 

https://medium.com/alenas-journal/ways-to-get-funds-for-homeschooling-in-different-states-f2e50639a5d2

7 hours ago, Ellie said:

What I have seen is the increase in co-ops, which often supersede or replace support groups. That makes me sad. 😞

 

That has been our experience here too. Or not co-ops exactly, but chunks of time you have to pay for to participate in.

Also, no one talks about what they do or use in their own homeschool anymore, for fear of offending people that do things differently. I don't understand this, but I know that what is intended to be inclusive is actually very isolating. We don't talk about the one thing we have in common. So everyone just stares at their kids or their phones and complains about the weather or their kids. When I try to talk about our homeschool someone always makes a comment about making them look bad. I am really doing the bare minimum (with kids with LDs no less!) and I promise these things are said without any reference to anyone else or anything that could reasonably construed as negative. 

The people I've met recently that claim to homeschool aren't excited about homeschooling. I think it's because they aren't very involved in it. They just plug their kids into a pseudo-school or a program and call it good. But it's very bad, not good at all. 

My homeschool group bonnet seems to be full of bees. 🤐

[....]

33 minutes ago, Quercus said:

Also, no one talks about what they do or use in their own homeschool anymore, for fear of offending people that do things differently. I don't understand this, but I know that what is intended to be inclusive is actually very isolating. We don't talk about the one thing we have in common. So everyone just stares at their kids or their phones and complains about the weather or their kids. When I try to talk about our homeschool someone always makes a comment about making them look bad. I am really doing the bare minimum (with kids with LDs no less!) and I promise these things are said without any reference to anyone else or anything that could reasonably construed as negative. 

The people I've met recently that claim to homeschool aren't excited about homeschooling. I think it's because they aren't very involved in it. They just plug their kids into a pseudo-school or a program and call it good. But it's very bad, not good at all. 

 

I've been shut down by other homeschoolers while trying to make conversation about curriculum with the "do whatever works best for your family" sing-a-long.  You're right, it IS really sad.  If they had a job teaching, they would want to chat about it sometimes with other teachers, right??  Also, when I ask a question or start a conversation, I am NOT looking for everyone to completely agree with me.  I actually don't like that.    

I'm not seeing anyone excited about homeschooling, either - which is also sad.  I usually look like a weirdo when I'm telling another homeschooling mom about this great visual history book I found...or how this chemistry lab kit was awesome - all the labs worked...  Lol.  No one else is excited to share what they're doing and they've usually never heard of what resource I'm talking about. 

It is lonely and isolating (you're right).

[Quercus]

7 minutes ago, Evanthe said:

I've been shut down by other homeschoolers while trying to make conversation about curriculum with the "do whatever works best for your family" sing-a-long.

 

😄 perfectly named

The most recent thing was I was saying that if I don't accomplish something in the morning, or at least start it before lunch, I won't get it done. I meant anything, not just school work, though certainly school work that I am involved in. Afternoons and evenings have their own momentum here for Mom. A woman whose kids are all 7 and younger cut me off to point out that "the beauty in homeschool is getting to set our own timelines! I don't understand why everyone replicates what they experienced in school growing up. Just send your kids to [local school] if you want to be on the school's schedule!" Everyone agreed and my time to participate was over, I guess.

First of all, I start school with my younger kids way earlier than public school opens. And my older kids trickle in as they are ready. But that is not the point. I feel like it was something she heard on a podcast and just couldn't contain herself with in her excitement to say it. I have experience to share about setting and reaching goals with multiple kids, and I was interested in hearing different things people do in the evenings that free up some time there, My older kids are really changing so our family dynamics and schedules are changing with them. We're all learning until it's over. 

But people snap out these soundbites that sound good in the abstract, and no one actually shares anything. 

Perhaps this only tangentially relates to the first post. But I think that curriculum providers are responding to what people want. Maybe it goes both ways and people are responding to what is available. In any case I see people wanting curriculum or groups that don't require or lend themselves to collaboration, either between the parent and the child or within the community. 

[TracyP]

1 hour ago, Quercus said:

 

The people I've met recently that claim to homeschool aren't excited about homeschooling. I think it's because they aren't very involved in it. They just plug their kids into a pseudo-school or a program and call it good. But it's very bad, not good at all. 

 

Yes! This is very similar to my experience lately. When I started homeschooling 10+ years ago, the other homeschoolers I met were excited to talk about it. Now it seems like it is taboo to talk about what anybody else is doing in their homeschool. And excitement or enthusiasm about it? Yeah I definitely don't see that outside a couple close homeschooling friends I have.

I'm so glad to see some more energy around these deeper discussions right now on the boards. I think there are still a lot of enthusiastic homeschoolers out there, but it definitely feels like they are a lot harder to find.

[Ellie]

2 hours ago, Quercus said:

While California has a huge market, which would lend credence to the previous statement even by itself, plenty of other states have options they call charter schools where parents can decide what to spend outside (of their income) funds on. There's obviously a market, since some curriculum companies, like Memoria Press, have opened charter school divisions. 

https://medium.com/alenas-journal/ways-to-get-funds-for-homeschooling-in-different-states-f2e50639a5d2

 

I wouldn't say that there are "plenty of other states." There are a scant few. And certainly, publishers will be looking for ways to increase their profits, but since publishers of school-like materials have always labeled their materials with grade levels, I still don't think it has anything to do with charter school monies.

[ktgrok]

4 hours ago, Evanthe said:

 

I've been shut down by other homeschoolers while trying to make conversation about curriculum with the "do whatever works best for your family" sing-a-long.  You're right, it IS really sad.  If they had a job teaching, they would want to chat about it sometimes with other teachers, right??  Also, when I ask a question or start a conversation, I am NOT looking for everyone to completely agree with me.  I actually don't like that.    

I'm not seeing anyone excited about homeschooling, either - which is also sad.  I usually look like a weirdo when I'm telling another homeschooling mom about this great visual history book I found...or how this chemistry lab kit was awesome - all the labs worked...  Lol.  No one else is excited to share what they're doing and they've usually never heard of what resource I'm talking about. 

It is lonely and isolating (you're right).

First - what is this magical chemistry kit???? I hate buying kits and really don't anymore because I got burned so many times with various science kits that were duds. 

Second, I agree. I hadn't thought about it, but no one does talk about actual schooling anymore. They do on facebook, but not in person. I kind of just assumed everyone was unschooling since they never mention curriculum, but maybe not. 

[lewelma]

The learning disability crowd is my go-to when I want to talk about actual homeschooling. They have to work hard to find materials that work for their kids and as such often make their own.  They typically have pulled their kids out because of poor academic fit, which means they are definitely academic homeschoolers.  So even though my kids are gifted, they are way way more interesting and helpful people to talk to than gifted kids who work in on-line classes. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by lewelma

[smfmommy]

I agree that people don't actually research homeschooling much.  I run a homeschool library and most newbies come in wanting "7th grade".  Sometimes they have looked up curriculum, but often they have no idea what their options are.  Then we have to do the twenty questions game to see if there is something I can suggest on our shelves.  Although, mostly I just try to suggest focusing on the basics (reading and math) while they figure out the whole homeschooling thing in general.  I wish there was a current Elijah Co style catalog.  They defined the different styles of homeschooling and gave suggestions for quality materials in each style.  But mostly they suggested quality literature and discussing them with your children.  I started researching homeschooling in 1999 and the Elijah Co catalog was the first ray of hope as I muddled through what I though was an overwhelming amount of options back then.

In our area we also have the "pleasing the charter school" conundrum.  You can get reimbursed for some (mostly secular, state standard pleasing) curriculum.  If you want to buy and use your own history curriculum, for example, that is fine, but your assigned teacher may require that you also must check some state standard off.  So I often help moms find a simple workbook to fill that need.  But it means more (busy)work for the family.  It can often lead to overwhelm and stress too.   The whole thing encourages buying grade leveled materials.  Out of the box scope and sequences are not encouraged in any way, even for kids who are unique (in any direction).  Very evident in the 5 feet of Sonlight/Konos/Weaver curriculum binders we have that never get touched.

 

 

[lewelma]

51 minutes ago, smfmommy said:

In our area we also have the "pleasing the charter school" conundrum.  You can get reimbursed for some (mostly secular, state standard pleasing) curriculum.  If you want to buy and use your own history curriculum, for example, that is fine, but your assigned teacher may require that you also must check some state standard off.  So I often help moms find a simple workbook to fill that need.  But it means more (busy)work for the family.  It can often lead to overwhelm and stress too.   The whole thing encourages buying grade leveled materials.  Out of the box scope and sequences are not encouraged in any way, even for kids who are unique (in any direction).  Very evident in the 5 feet of Sonlight/Konos/Weaver curriculum binders we have that never get touched.

 

This is fascinating. My ds who is university in America has said that there is NO ONE who has been educated like him, even the other 'homeschoolers' there. They all used CC, no homegrown high school. He has become very appreciative of his education now that he has talked to others' about their high school experiences. 

[8filltheheart]

16 minutes ago, lewelma said:

This is fascinating. My ds who is university in America has said that there is NO ONE who has been educated like him, even the other 'homeschoolers' there. They all used CC, no homegrown high school. He has become very appreciative of his education now that he has talked to others' about their high school experiences. 

Not uniquie to MIT.  My kids have never met anyone who has been educated with the freedom they had.

[lewelma]

57 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

My kids have never met anyone who has been educated with the freedom they had.

I think it is an interesting comparison to look at what you do vs unschoolers. 

Unschoolers technically have more freedom than those of us who do interest-led classes, but I think very few unschoolers actually achieve the rigor that you have with your kids. 

[lewelma]

30 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

I'm honestly no longer sure "unschooler" is a useful category. With respect to the people I've met, that includes both people who aren't putting in nearly enough effort and people who let their kids guide their learning as much as they can. I think compared to lots of people on this board, I'm an unschooler: we have very few core subjects that are required, even within those core subjects, my daughter has LOTS of choice about what to learn (to my surprise, our math this fall has all been about learning the standard algorithms, which wasn't really what I was expecting), I don't assign her any specific literature, etc. But I don't think I belong in the same group as people who basically let their kids do whatever they want all day and don't provide learning opportunities/discussion/any kind of structure... 

Agreed.  However, it is a huge category of the current group of homeschoolers here in NZ, as in probably 50%. (We just don't have the co-op/hybrid school/online school thing going on here). So I have talked to a lot of the current crop, and they would definitely define unschooler as 'natural learners' rather than 'child-led learning'. But in the past, which I ran our local group, both categories of unschooler existed. 

[maize]

50 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I think it is an interesting comparison to look at what you do vs unschoolers. 

Unschoolers technically have more freedom than those of us who do interest-led classes, but I think very few unschoolers actually achieve the rigor that you have with your kids. 

 

I have some definite unschooler tendencies, but what I want to do is I think closer to what 8 does. I just haven't figured or how within the limitations I am working with, including my own executive function difficulties.

Her posts and yours always stand out to me as something to strive towards though.

People absolutely learn best when their own interest is engaged. And I think that people also learn best with the encouragement and structure that a mentoring teacher can provide. I'm good at encouragement but bad at structure; which in our case is one argument for more outside teachers who can provide some of that structure.

[Sallie Mae]

Well, I'm being brave here. I learned from this forum for years before I created an account for myself. You all have been my long-term homeschool community even if you didn't know it. I homeschooled my first child from K-12 starting in 2001. "Back in the day," says the old timer homeschool mom, "The internet wasn't what it is today. You couldn't learn about all kinds of curriculum from the comfort of your home." Sound like a story of how our grandparent's got to school in the old days, but it is true. If you wanted to know about homeschool curriculums, you had to order a catalog and then actually get your hands on the curriculum. There were only homeschool conventions in several states in my area at the time. All of them were several states away. There was a large homeschool warehouse about an hour away that carried as many curriculum choices that were available at that time. I did go to a convention before starting K, but I really learned from visiting that warehouse, asking questions of the wonderful staff, and sitting down on the floor, turning pages for hours. I loved learning what was out there even if it wasn't a good fit for me, maybe it might work for someone else.I live in a state that requires specific subjects be taught, so being an unschooled was never really an option, but there were choices within what was required to be taught. I began a love of learning about various education philosophies and curriculum was available.

I am now happily and gratefully homeschooling my long awaited second child. I know so much more about what is available today vs. when I started in 2001. The way my second child learns is very different than how my first child did. I am doing pretty much everything differently than how I did the first time, and it is great. I couldn't have done anything any differently the first time around, due to what was available, how I was them, etc. but I can now. I have a different approach and focus. It keeps my days wonderfully full and my brain busy thinking about the next thing to do. though it takes a lot more energy than how I did it years ago, it is a good tired. My brains is always full of 

I have been involved with a particular co-op every year since 2003 till now. I have seen many changes in homeschooling, how moms relate to each other, what new homeschoolers are looking for, etc. One of the things that makes me sad is how very few of the homeschool moms at the co-op ever talk about homeschooling or curriculum. You wouldn't even know what we all had in common if you heard everyone talking. I would love to open up conversations on that, but there doesn't seem to be any interest in talking about those things. Not wanting to seem like an old timer who talks about "the good ole days" or how things use to be done, I go with the flow. If I connect with a mom one-on-one, I will ask what curriculum they use. If they seem interested in talking about homeschooling things, it makes me happy.

Yes things have changed, but even with the changes, I love homeschooling.

Sorry to have gone on and on. 

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

17 hours ago, TracyP said:

 

Yes! This is very similar to my experience lately. When I started homeschooling 10+ years ago, the other homeschoolers I met were excited to talk about it. Now it seems like it is taboo to talk about what anybody else is doing in their homeschool. And excitement or enthusiasm about it? Yeah I definitely don't see that outside a couple close homeschooling friends I have.

I'm so glad to see some more energy around these deeper discussions right now on the boards. I think there are still a lot of enthusiastic homeschoolers out there, but it definitely feels like they are a lot harder to find.

I think the huge number of choices lead to a bit of overwhelm

[annegables]

On 12/10/2019 at 5:27 AM, Quercus said:

 

😄 perfectly named

The most recent thing was I was saying that if I don't accomplish something in the morning, or at least start it before lunch, I won't get it done. I meant anything, not just school work, though certainly school work that I am involved in. Afternoons and evenings have their own momentum here for Mom. A woman whose kids are all 7 and younger cut me off to point out that "the beauty in homeschool is getting to set our own timelines! I don't understand why everyone replicates what they experienced in school growing up. Just send your kids to [local school] if you want to be on the school's schedule!" Everyone agreed and my time to participate was over, I guess.

First of all, I start school with my younger kids way earlier than public school opens. And my older kids trickle in as they are ready. But that is not the point. I feel like it was something she heard on a podcast and just couldn't contain herself with in her excitement to say it. I have experience to share about setting and reaching goals with multiple kids, and I was interested in hearing different things people do in the evenings that free up some time there, My older kids are really changing so our family dynamics and schedules are changing with them. We're all learning until it's over. 

But people snap out these soundbites that sound good in the abstract, and no one actually shares anything. 

Perhaps this only tangentially relates to the first post. But I think that curriculum providers are responding to what people want. Maybe it goes both ways and people are responding to what is available. In any case I see people wanting curriculum or groups that don't require or lend themselves to collaboration, either between the parent and the child or within the community. 

This might be only tangentially related, but I am loving the discussion! And I completely agree with all of this. Emily Dickenson once said that if she didnt finish half of her work by 10am, she ran the risk of not finishing the other half. I have found this to be completely true in my life, and particularly my homeschooling.

[Quercus]

6 minutes ago, annegables said:

Emily Dickenson once said that if she didnt finish half of her work by 10am, she ran the risk of not finishing the other half.

 

If she wanted to follow the schedule of the local coal mine, she should just work in the local coal mine.

 

[annegables]

9 hours ago, Sallie Mae said:

Well, I'm being brave here. I learned from this forum for years before I created an account for myself. You all have been my long-term homeschool community even if you didn't know it. I homeschooled my first child from K-12 starting in 2001. "Back in the day," says the old timer homeschool mom, "The internet wasn't what it is today. You couldn't learn about all kinds of curriculum from the comfort of your home." Sound like a story of how our grandparent's got to school in the old days, but it is true. If you wanted to know about homeschool curriculums, you had to order a catalog and then actually get your hands on the curriculum. There were only homeschool conventions in several states in my area at the time. All of them were several states away. There was a large homeschool warehouse about an hour away that carried as many curriculum choices that were available at that time. I did go to a convention before starting K, but I really learned from visiting that warehouse, asking questions of the wonderful staff, and sitting down on the floor, turning pages for hours. I loved learning what was out there even if it wasn't a good fit for me, maybe it might work for someone else.I live in a state that requires specific subjects be taught, so being an unschooled was never really an option, but there were choices within what was required to be taught. I began a love of learning about various education philosophies and curriculum was available.

I am now happily and gratefully homeschooling my long awaited second child. I know so much more about what is available today vs. when I started in 2001. The way my second child learns is very different than how my first child did. I am doing pretty much everything differently than how I did the first time, and it is great. I couldn't have done anything any differently the first time around, due to what was available, how I was them, etc. but I can now. I have a different approach and focus. It keeps my days wonderfully full and my brain busy thinking about the next thing to do. though it takes a lot more energy than how I did it years ago, it is a good tired. My brains is always full of 

I have been involved with a particular co-op every year since 2003 till now. I have seen many changes in homeschooling, how moms relate to each other, what new homeschoolers are looking for, etc. One of the things that makes me sad is how very few of the homeschool moms at the co-op ever talk about homeschooling or curriculum. You wouldn't even know what we all had in common if you heard everyone talking. I would love to open up conversations on that, but there doesn't seem to be any interest in talking about those things. Not wanting to seem like an old timer who talks about "the good ole days" or how things use to be done, I go with the flow. If I connect with a mom one-on-one, I will ask what curriculum they use. If they seem interested in talking about homeschooling things, it makes me happy.

Yes things have changed, but even with the changes, I love homeschooling.

Sorry to have gone on and on. 

 

 

The bolded is me, as well. I love a good curriculum nerd-out. I love just hearing about what other people do, even if it isnt something I would ever do. I just want to learn of all the different options out there.