If you did DE....

[BusyMom5]

Can you tell me what your days looked like?  How many classes did you do?  The CC is an hour away, but there are online courses available,  too.   Right now DD thinks she wants to try to do classes on campus.  I'm not sure how many classes to plan, or how to do a mix of teaching classes myself, and DE courses.   

Not sure if it matters, but DD is a great student in terms of learning- I expect a 30 on her ACT and no issues with placement tests.  She does have some issues with writing and staying on task, but I think she will easily be able to handle 2 or 3 classes.

 

 

[AngieW in Texas]

I do NOT recommend online classes. These classes count on your college record and it is very hard to start off with online college classes.

My cc only allows DE students to take 2 classes (class with required lab counts as one class) per semester until you have completed at least 12 credit hours. After that, they can apply for permission to take up to 4 classes per semester if their GPA is high enough.

My two older kids each took 2 classes per semester for the fall and spring and 1 class each summer session (for the entire summer). My middle kid was able to complete a double major in 3 years because of dual credit.

My youngest has learning challenges and physical challenges, so they took just 1 class each semester until the last semester and then they took 2. 

[Lori D.]

Just as a general rule of thumb, I recommend starting with just 1 course in order for the student to have success while simultaneously learning how to study and learn at the much faster/more rigorous college pace, how to get around the campus and deal with the administrative aspects, and how to navigate the "my college page" aspect of accessing the online class syllabus and teacher updates, uploading papers, doing online homework, participating in required weekly online discussions, etc.

Also, in-person classes tend to help students just starting out with DE to stay on track with workload and learning, as the regular class contact helps keep new-to-DE students accountable (compared to how easy it is to forget about an out-of-sight-out-of-mind online class).

Taking even 1 class and commuting 1 hour/each way will take several hours of time out of your schedule for each day that class meets. If you are driving DD, or if she commutes by public transportation, she could use some of that time to read/study for the class or for other subjects. You'll also want to schedule time in your day on non-class days for Dd to study and complete homework. Because the grades for DE courses are part of the student's permanent transcript, you'll likely want to make DE courses the priority in your scheduling.

You might also like to read through some of the past threads on DE that are linked at the top of this board in post #5 of the pinned thread "High School Motherlode #2". Here are a few from that pinned thread to get you started:

Here is a bit of advice about Community College classes
Dual Enrollment study
Good first class to dual enroll in?
First dual enrollment class?

BEST of luck to you and DD as you dip a toe in the waters of DE! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Lori D.

[Bambam]

Time commitment will vary based on student, professor, class, reading speed, writing speed, etc. 

Our CCs usually only allow students to take on dual credit class the first semester. After successful completion, you can take more, but many CCs limit you to 3/semester.

Our 4 year universities will usually let you take more your first semester.

I've always had my kids do their regular classes at home too. They still take the same number of classes, but I will stretch out the more time-intensive ones at home (i.e. math and science may take a couple of months extra in the summer to complete). When they are first starting, I did reschedule their work at home around heavy weeks of mid-terms, papers, and finals. As they get older, I stop that because they won't have that luxury in college.

That said, I just discovered this year, that we finished at home in about 8 weeks when a local 4 year school does in one semester for science (we did cheat, I guess, and did the labs during the summer before we started the book, Forensic Chemistry, so she was already familiar with a lot of the concepts from Chemistry). I'm still having her do more because I think more should be covered. 

My oldest, currently a junior in college, complained mightily about my high standards when she first went to college. Now in her 3rd year and the courses are getting harder (Biology major), she now appreciates those high standards because she still internally abides by them and they are helping her be successful during a very tough semester. 

[teachermom2834]

The rigor of your de classes will vary widely. My kids have taken de at two different cc and one four year private university. Many were easier than anything they had at home or through an online provider. You really won't know until you jump in. My third ds will start with two classes his first semester with de but that is because we are familiar with the courses and professors from previous kids and I know they are not terribly difficult. 

I would not underestimate how disruptive the hour commute will be and how much that will limit the time at home available for studying. That said, many online college classes are the pits and that would not necessarily be my recommendation either.

If it was me, I would probably go ahead with the commute but only max of two days a week. If two classes could be taken on those days I would consider that. I would also ask around and read reviews at ratemyprofessor to try to get an idea of what we are getting into. 

We utilize de heavily but we are ten minutes from campus and my kids drive themselves and it is very inexpensive. I'm not sure I would find it worthwhile with the commute. 

Again, it will vary widely but I still feel like my kids can often get better quality classes at home. I like the de experience and find it worthwhile but it is not the "be all and end all". Only do it if it really works for your family.

[8filltheheart]

There is no single answer to this question.  I have had kids jump into 9 hrs of upper level courses straight off and do fine.  I have had a student who never stepped inside of a classroom during high school, take a DE course online sr yr, and go off to college freshman yr and maintain a 4.0.

You know your student.  We don't.  Talk to your student about what they think they are capable of managing and go with that.  Pay attention to drop dates in case they change their mind.  The grades will follow them forever, so they need to know that up front and take that part seriously.

[maize]

43 minutes ago, Margaret in CO said:

There is another wrinkle in the DE equation. There is a problem with signing up for a bunch of classes and then dropping a bunch. Mary Pride, of Practical Homeschooling, ran into this with one of her kids. It's not something I would have thought of (though we only ended dropping one class and that was because it put one kid over half-time and the high school athletic association wouldn't make a decision on eligibility).  https://www.home-school.com/Articles/dual-credit-TRAP.php

Huh, I thought courses dropped before the add/drop deadline near the beginning of the term didn't show up in the records at all.

Maybe these were dropped later and showed up as withdrawals on a transcript?

[TracyP]

If you think she can handle 2-3 classes, I would trust your instincts. DE (called PSEO in my state) is a popular option for homeschool and public school students in my state, so I know many, many students who have gone that route - including me! Most of the students I know started with 9-12 credits, and most did just fine with that. I will note that these would all be 11th or 12th grade students.

My oldest will be a PSEO student next year and she will take 3 classes. She won't do any classes at home. With 3 DE classes in fall and 3 in the spring, she will have 6 high school credits which is plenty for us. She works M/W/F in the fall, so she will take classes on T/Th. I expect her to be very busy. This is what she wants, however, and I believe she can handle it. 

My daughter will also have an hour commute. That is the big downside in my overall plan. It is a big enough deal that we are planning to move. We have considered moving for the past 4 years for other reasons, and this is finally pushing us to go for it. Online classes would be one way to get around the commute, but I agree with the others on this. Students have a much harder time with online classes from what I've heard. If we are unable to move, we still intend to move forward with our plan, but I am much less comfortable with it. 2 hours is a lot of time to spend on the road every day. Unless your dd will be using public transportation, you'll definitely want to factor that in.

Having said that, I still don't see 2-3 classes being at all unreasonable in your case. 

[RootAnn]

20 hours ago, maize said:

Maybe these were dropped later and showed up as withdrawals on a transcript?

They must have been Ws.

I recommend starting with 1, but I agree to go with your gut. My DD just took 1 each semester due to timing of classes and other (online) class requirements.

[AK_Mom4]

DD17 took 9 DE credits this last semester - a four credit biology class with a 1 credit lab lab and a 4 credit math course.  It pretty much maxed out her time she had available for schoolwork as she also takes a band class at the local high school.  She had 3-4 hours of homework from the two classes each day.  We ended up doing her at-home classes in a series of marathon weekend sprints -10 hour days of English and US Gov.  DD17 felt like she was too rushed, so for the spring semester, she is just signed up for one DE 4 credit math class.

Credits matter.  A 4 credit class with a lab (5 total) will take up a lot more out of class time than a 3 credit course.  DD expects to have 1-2 hours of homework daily this coming semester for the 4 credit math class as well as actual in-class time, but by not taking another 5 credits, she figures she will have time to get it done.  I should note she also has a lot going on outside school work - music lessons, ski coaching and scouting.

Our biggest sacrifice has been transportation.  I gave up my truck to DD17.  DH drops me off at work on his way in the morning and I either ride home with him or DD17 comes and picks me up.  We are lucky in that everything is close by (10-15 minutes) but juggling schedules every day has been a hassle.

[madteaparty]

GE classes and majors classes are very different. Pay close attention to add/drop deadline. 

[katilac]

On 1/3/2019 at 9:35 PM, BusyMom5 said:

Can you tell me what your days looked like?  How many classes did you do?  The CC is an hour away, but there are online courses available,  too.   Right now DD thinks she wants to try to do classes on campus.  I'm not sure how many classes to plan, or how to do a mix of teaching classes myself, and DE courses.   

Not sure if it matters, but DD is a great student in terms of learning- I expect a 30 on her ACT and no issues with placement tests.  She does have some issues with writing and staying on task, but I think she will easily be able to handle 2 or 3 classes.

 

If the CC is an hour away, I would also investigate any universities that might offer DE in that radius. You may have more options than you're aware of. 

Both of my kids started with two classes, College Composition and French. They had already had some high school French and they started over at the beginning, so I wasn't worried about two classes. It didn't seem worth the commute and aggravation for one class, and it was easy enough to change deadlines and workloads for their homeschooling classes as needed (not eliminating any work, but doing more during the long college break, no tests at home during college finals week, etc). 

I definitely agree with classes on campus, particularly for a student who has not done online before. You really have to have a good system for staying on top of online classes and deadlines, plus I think much of the value in a class is having peers and in-person discussion. 

We had to figure out a routine for each and every semester, because the schedule was never the same. And of course it depends on what other kids you are homeschooling. When oldest started her first semester, youngest was a sophomore and schlepped along with us (too far to go home and back again) because I didn't want her home alone so often and on such a regular schedule that anyone could notice. She did okay when we could get a private study room, not so much if we were just in the open library. Then dh started working from home and being able to stay home more often helped a lot. 

So a big question is, how old are your dd and her siblings? Some schools allow them to start DE very early. My kids could have done DE academically at 14, but would not have been ready for dealing with professors and much older classmates on their own at that age. At 16, they could do it . . . they were occasionally shocked at some of the things their classmates wrote about or just talked about, in a 'you won't believe what he said' kind of way, but it was fine and good practice for actual college, lol. 

Use that travel time as much as you can! We would listen to history and video lectures on the ride in (rarely on the ride home bc they were tired and also focused on telling me about the day). Even a half hour every day adds up over a semester. 

On 1/4/2019 at 11:28 AM, Margaret in CO said:

There is another wrinkle in the DE equation. There is a problem with signing up for a bunch of classes and then dropping a bunch. Mary Pride, of Practical Homeschooling, ran into this with one of her kids. It's not something I would have thought of (though we only ended dropping one class and that was because it put one kid over half-time and the high school athletic association wouldn't make a decision on eligibility).  https://www.home-school.com/Articles/dual-credit-TRAP.php

 

Wow, he dropped a third of the classes he signed up for! That's a bit crazy. And a bit rude, imo. You don't just randomly sign up for classes (taking someone else's spot) and show up to see if you might be interested. If he dropped them very early on in the semester as she says, then any information he learned in the class could have been learned beforehand by looking at the book and syllabus. Yes, sometimes you will show up for a class and discover it is nothing like advertised, this actually happened to my dd last semester, but not that often. Not often enough to wind up with 66 credit hours out of 92 signed up for. 

Satisfactory academic progress is not a trap and I would hardly call it little-known. I can see how some people might miss the significance of it, but it's all there in black and white when reading about financial aid. Argh, sorry for ranting, I just hate the use of fear-mongering in ALL CAPS. It's also just crazy to me that someone who has been involved in, and writing about, the homeschool community for well over 30 years would be unaware that graduation rates are important and that completing 66 hours and dropping 26 more without coming close to a 60 hour degree is not ideal. 

[katilac]

On 1/4/2019 at 12:13 PM, maize said:

Huh, I thought courses dropped before the add/drop deadline near the beginning of the term didn't show up in the records at all.

Maybe these were dropped later and showed up as withdrawals on a transcript?

 

Not showing up on your transcript is different from the school's internal records. Her problem was related to financial aid eligibility as opposed to college admissions. 

[katilac]

I do think it's a flaw in the system when colleges do not alert DE students to SAP. I think it's because they are not listed as degree-seeking students, DE is its own designation, but some advising would come in handy here. Even just a notation on the information sheet when they first sign up. Good advising can be hard to find, though, so I always tell people to ask but get it in writing and also research it for yourself. The reason you ask is to hopefully get pointed in the right direction and get the correct search words. 

[City Mouse]

My DS16 has not been a really strong or motivated public school student, but he was allowed to take 2DE courses at the state university branch that is in the same town as his high school. (Over 1 hr each was to his high school bet he usually only had to go 3 days per week). He took Psychology and Statistics (which counts as a math credit for high school). He only made a B in Stats, but freely admits that he could have made an A if he had put in a little more effort. (He doesn't have the psychological grade yet, but he probably made a B in it as well). I had wanted him to start with only 1 course, but the college advisors and the high school counselor convinced him to take two. The work load wasn't that much more than a full high school load except that he didn't get to,take any "fun" classes such as an art or foreign language. 

He held his ground with the advisors for 2nd semester and is onlying planning to take College Algebra as DE so he can take a "fun" elective.