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Not wanting to risk it


Scarlett
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I witnessed the weirdest thing today,,,in a grocery store....,an employee and customer who obviously knew each other,,,,

Employee said ‘ you getting married?’ Customer said , ‘no she is a keeper, a great gal, but I just can’t risk that again.’

I glanced up and employ said, ‘you heard that?’  I admitted yes I heard the version that sounded like, ‘she is great but I am not marrying her’. 

He attempted an explanation......is there a reason to never remarry!? 

Edited by Scarlett
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Ok my thinking is...I can see deciding to not try again.  No more romance....I live single th rest of my days,  what I don’t understand is thinking.,,,well,....I like this person a lot....I want to keep this relationship but I will never marry again.  

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I have a friend who has been married twice.  He is an amazing man and by all accounts a terrific husband and father but he's married two awful women.  After the second divorce he swore he's done with marriage.  He's been dating his current girlfriend for at least 4 years and still maintains he will never marry again, even though he loves her very much and is a great father figure to her 2 children. Many of his friend want him to change him mind.  Time will tell

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1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

I have a friend who has been married twice.  He is an amazing man and by all accounts a terrific husband and father but he's married two awful women.  After the second divorce he swore he's done with marriage.  He's been dating his current girlfriend for at least 4 years and still maintains he will never marry again, even though he loves her very much and is a great father figure to her 2 children. Many of his friend want him to change him mind.  Time will tell

This is exactly the situation that perplexes me.  It is as if he thinks the institution of marriage is the problem instead of the two awful first wives.  

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2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It's not that the institution of marriage is "the" problem.  It is that the institution is a fully separate thing from the people in it.  

Right....so one becomes opposed to the institution based upon bad experience with people.  

Edited by Scarlett
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My sil has been with the same man for 20 years. They have two kids together and she moved across an ocean to be with him. They are not married. His dad abandoned him and his mother when he was young, cut off contact, and went on to have a second family. I don't think he has had any contact with his dad for at least 30 years. This heartbreak led him to decide marriage is meaningless and he says he will never marry. I think my sil finds this painful but she loves him and they continue their life together. 

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4 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Sure, why not?

 

 

Lets say a person has a kid.  They raise that kid as an only for a number of years.  Lets say around the kid's 8th birthday, the kid is diagnosed with a terminal illness.  Eventually, the illness wins.  Person, who had been considering a second child, has now sworn off ever having any more kids, because they cannot endure that pain again.  They swear off the entire concept of parenthood because of the pain that their experience with ONE child has had on their life.  

 

I have known such a thing to happen, and honestly, I don't find it much different.  

Not the same.  This isn’t a person swearing off a relationship.  That I understand.  This is a person saying, well I love her, she is great, but I I won’t marry again.  

 

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15 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Would you have a relationship though?

I don't know.....lol.  The idea of getting to know someone new just exhausts me. 

I dated enough in my 20s.  I spent my 30s and now half of my 40s being a wife and a mom.  I seriously can not even imagine to starting "from scratch". 

But even if I did - finances would be a HUGE reason I would not want to get married again.

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Just now, NewIma said:

My sil has been with the same man for 20 years. They have two kids together and she moved across an ocean to be with him. They are not married. His dad abandoned him and his mother when he was young, cut off contact, and went on to have a second family. I don't think he has had any contact with his dad for at least 30 years. This heartbreak led him to decide marriage is meaningless and he says he will never marry. I think my sil finds this painful but she loves him and they continue their life together. 

Yes, this is the type of situation I am talking about.  What is being proved by refusing  to marry the mother of your children that you obviously love. 

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1 minute ago, SereneHome said:

I don't know.....lol.  The idea of getting to know someone new just exhausts me. 

I dated enough in my 20s.  I spent my 30s and now half of my 40s being a wife and a mom.  I seriously can not even imagine to starting "from scratch". 

But even if I did - finances would be a HUGE reason I would not want to get married again.

I know right?

Finances? I mean would you lose a big pension or some such?

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My dad got divorced 3 times in 16 years.  (1974, 1979ish, 1989) He's never marrying again.  He's had long term girlfriends and was willing to stay with them long term, but not to marry them.  I'm trying not to be snarky, but um, if you've been divorced more than once, I have a hard time imagining why you would want to legally marry again. I'm also not sure why someone would want to be a person's 3rd or 4th or...th spouse. I take marriage very seriously, so I'm not enthusiastic about someone with multiple failed marriages marrying again because statistics about marrying a 3rd time or more are grim.  I think it's actually respectful of marriage to bow out if you have concerns about another burning you. I have no problem with people choosing to be partners instead of spouses if they have a reason to think they might divorce again.

My mom's cousin was dumped by her good for nothing ex when their triplets were toddlers. He had no contact until the day after they turned 18 and didn't provide any financial support.  It was her strict policy to stay out of romantic relationships entirely until they were out of the house supporting themselves because of the low success rate of step-family situations. (Yes, I know people who are the exception, but I'm talking about generalities here.) I respect that.  I can't say I would do the same thing...I think..I dunno...maybe I would....but I get it. She has no plans to ever marry again and the girls are long since out of the house.

I know some branches of Christianity don't allow for remarriage, even for the victim of adultery.  I don't interpret that passage the same way they do, but I get where they're coming from on it.  It's another way to deeply respect marriage while refusing to participate in it.

I know a couple that went a very long time living together after the man was widowed twice, but that about retirement funds for the wife and they eventually married.

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2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

You are right, it isn't a person swearing off a *relationship*  it's a person swearing off MARRIAGE.  Marriage is different than a relationship, just like being a parent is different than having a relationship with kids. 

So what about a marriage is so much more terrifying than a relationship?

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1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Yes, this is the type of situation I am talking about.  What is being proved by refusing  to marry the mother of your children that you obviously love. 

I personally don't understand it. In this situation it seems like a sign of deep unhealed pain. 

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17 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

This is exactly the situation that perplexes me.  It is as if he thinks the institution of marriage is the problem instead of the two awful first wives.  

If someone marries two truly awful people, then that someone has a serious discernment problem. Their red flag system is defective.

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Just now, Scarlett said:

I know right?

Finances? I mean would you lose a big pension or some such?

No, I don't have any pension.  But we do have savings.  And I know way too many stories when even with pre-nups and wills $$$ got really messy for kids when their parents remarried in older years.

I have less than zero interest getting myself involved in that.  Another big one is elder care.  So, if I have assets and he doesn't and we are legally married, I could be screwed.

But all that aside, like I said, the idea of a new relationship.....just makes me so so soooo tired 🙂

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6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes, this is the type of situation I am talking about.  What is being proved by refusing  to marry the mother of your children that you obviously love. 

 

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

That part I bolded was never in your original post.

 

 

That refernce was to another persons post. 

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2 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

If someone marries two truly awful people, then that someone has a serious discernment problem. Their red flag system is defective.

Well sure.  I can agree with that.  But shouldn’t the stopping point be before becoming involved in a relationship?

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1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

I believe that marriage is one of the most serious and binding promises a person can ever make in their life and there are seriously VERY FEW things that would make me ever break that promise.  And for someone who feels the same way and has had their spouse break that most serious ever promise and be able to "walk away" in the way that our LEGAL society allows.........

 

It would scare the piss out of me to make that level of promise ever again.  I would have very serious trouble ever trusting someone to make that same sort of promise again.  

Yes, I get that, but this man was talking about this woman AS IF he loved her and all that...but he wont marry her.  

Maybe the question should be why would you allow yourself to be that woman. 

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1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Scarlett, again, why do you care about how other people handle their relationship?

 

If you have no problem marrying again....then fine?  Why do you care if it scares someone else who is in a relationship?

I don’t care.  It is a conversation.  A musing.  Just thinking about how people do things.  Trying to make sense of the world.  It isn’t some big deep problem for me.  

Good grief.  

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1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

And here's something else to think about....

 

What if the person really actually just doesn't want to marry THAT person?  What if that person is good enough to mess around with but NOT good enough to marry..........................................and that person is totally ok with that arrangement?

 

If consenting adults are happy with their own situation and no kids are being hurt.. why is it worth even wondering about?

 

I listened to the man talking....he didn’t sound like some player....but regardless, it is just me musing. If some crazy woman on the internet is wondering about ridiculous things why do you care?

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well sure.  I can agree with that.  But shouldn’t the stopping point be before becoming involved in a relationship?

It's not all or nothing.  I see no problem with someone struggling with discernment issues getting into a much more casual relationship so that when it all falls apart years in it's easier to walk away. The human desire for companionship is deeply ingrained and it's unrealistic to think even people with discernment issues will ignore it.  They just need to be able to move on.  I mean, if you want people to be able to move on when their awful spouse nukes the relationship, why shouldn't there be an out that doesn't involve taxpayer dollars for courts to dissolve the relationship they figured might go bad anyway? I prefer keeping marriage to people with an all in mindset.

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4 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

You care enough that you remembered the random conversation between two people you don't know and have never met.  It's kinda weird to me that something like that would stick out in your mind so much.  

It is kinda weird to me you are acting like my curiosity on this is so weird.  If it doesn’t interest you, move along.  

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1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

It's not the questioning, it's the intensity of it that I find a bit strange.  It's almost like there's no explanation that would make sense to you....like there's only one way to do relationships and marriage that makes sense to you.   I am not saying that's how you actually feel, but really, that's how it comes across....like there's no other way of thinking that would compute.  

Intense I may be in general.  This is not even  on the top ten list.....

It doesn’t compute which is why I am discussing it.  The man in generally did not come across as a man who run his life like that....

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I don't find this that confusing. There are lots of ways to define relationships. Marriage is just one. As long as you're honest that marriage isn't a definition you're interested in for any reason, it's all good. It doesn't have to be the fault of bad marriages either. Part of coming out of that can be realizing you're happier and a better person in a relationship with different boundaries than a marriage.

If you're coming from a religious background, maybe this is tougher to really grok?

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My father has stated he will never marry again.  He is recently divorced after a very brief marriage to a woman that has a personality disorder, (no one realized it until after they were married). 

Older people often have a lot of financial resources and it's messy sorting out what is "fair" once you remarry, especially if one spouse has considerably more assets than the other. 

My father wanted the bulk of his estate to go to his children and grandchildren, and to leave a smaller portion of money plus survivorship rights to the house to his (now former) wife.  She would have been taken care of; we were not ever going to toss her out on the street or let her suffer.  She wanted ALL of his estate to go to her and pass on to her children and grandchildren after she died.  That didn't sit right with anyone, because she did absolutely zero to contribute to that wealth, but her argument was that once she said "I do", she was entitled to everything as his wife.  For what it's worth, I don't really care what my dad does with his money.  I had already told him to take me out of his will for other reasons, so I had no dog in the race.  But my father worked VERY hard for that money, and it burned up everyone that someone who put in zero work or support while he earned that money would take it all and we'd have to fight her to fulfill his wishes.     

So that's why some people won't ever remarry.  People feel very entitled and greedy when money is involved, and sometimes the only way to protect those assets is to make sure no one has the opportunity to touch them.  I do hope that my dad finds a nice girlfriend one day, and preferably someone that has her own money, so she won't be hot to remarry because she thinks her grandkids will get a trust fund.    

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1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

It has me thinking......I would not say I am bothered.  I am trying to figure how people decide a relationship is ok bit marriage is not.  

This doesn’t seem strange to me at all. However, I do have a hard time understanding people who say they are not ready to marry someone, but they will go ahead and have a child with them.

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1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Yes, this is the type of situation I am talking about.  What is being proved by refusing  to marry the mother of your children that you obviously love. 

Some would say what would be proved by getting a piece of paper saying they are married?

14 minutes ago, Frances said:

This doesn’t seem strange to me at all. However, I do have a hard time understanding people who say they are not ready to marry someone, but they will go ahead and have a child with them.

I think it's because they just want a child.  They want the child way more than they want a co-parent. 

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1 minute ago, Paige said:

Some would say what would be proved by getting a piece of paper saying they are married?

I think it's because they just want a child.  They want the child way more than they want a co-parent. 

I suppose there are instances where that works out well for everyone involved, but it doesn’t seem like a very stable beginning for bringing an innocent child into this world.

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If something were to happen to DH, I really doubt I'd remarry. 

I would be concerned for my kids. I'd have a hard time even dating while there were young kids in the home and my youngest is a baby so it's going to be a while.

I don't particularly enjoy sleeping with a snorer. And who's to know you're getting a snorer until you are really spending time sleeping with someone? I like my own bed and my own space.

I wouldn't want to give up my power and control. Marriage is about giving up power as me becomes we. With kids, I don't want to do that with someone who's not their dad. 

I don't want to deal with any of the financial implications with inheritance and pensions. 

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2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

This is exactly the situation that perplexes me.  It is as if he thinks the institution of marriage is the problem instead of the two awful first wives.  

 

Well to be fair marriage is a huge problem if you are married to an awful person.

Bottom line is they want sex or companionship, the trappings of marriage or the life of an affectionate couple, without any of the legal entanglements of marriage commitment.

And if they don’t view that as a sin and they both agree that’s enough for them - then there is no reason for them to not do that.

I’m with you in that I view that as a sin and that wouldn’t be enough for me - so I think it’s very sad and misguided and usually doesn’t end happily, especially if they are claiming to be Christian.  Though I’ll give credit that when it ends unhappily, it’s usually at least less of a legal pita.

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1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Yes, I get that, but this man was talking about this woman AS IF he loved her and all that...but he wont marry her.  

Maybe the question should be why would you allow yourself to be that woman. 

 

Why not? Maybe the woman has no interest in marriage, either.

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Intense I may be in general.  This is not even  on the top ten list.....

It doesn’t compute which is why I am discussing it.  The man in generally did not come across as a man who run his life like that....

 

Do you think the man is immoral for being in a serious relationship with a woman he doesn’t plan to marry? 

I’m trying to figure out how you feel about this.

Personally, if anything were to happen to my dh, I would not marry again. If I dated anyone, I would be sure he knew I wasn’t interested in marriage or in living together. I want my own house and my own stuff, and I want to control my money and my assets and I want to ensure that when I die, my son will inherit everything I have. I don’t want him to have to split it with anyone, and if I had a new dh or a live-in companion, they might make things difficult for ds. I don’t plan to be a hermit, but the last thing I would want to do is remarry. Additionally, being older, I wouldn’t just be marrying the man; I would probably have to deal with his children and grandchildren, and that could be a major source of stress. If I’m not married to the guy, he can deal with his family and give them money and let them stay at his house and babysit his grandkids every weekend, and do whatever else he wants to do with and for them, and it’s neither my responsibility nor my concern.  Freedom is good.

My late MIL was a widow for years, and people used to ask her why she never remarried. She told them she had no interest in taking care of anyone but herself, and the single older men she knew would mostly be looking for someone to cook for them, clean for them, do their laundry, and take care of them when they were sick. She said she would have gladly done all of those things for dh’s father if he was still alive, but she wasn’t about to start over with someone new. She had lots of friends and she was able to travel and do whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted to do it, without having to answer to anyone. She had a very happy life. 

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There’s lots of relationships I don’t understand. This board is full of people asking relationship questions that they don’t get either. 

I don’t understand anything about hookups. I just don’t get it. That mindset makes no sense to me at all. 

I don’t understand people who think “bad boys/girls” are sexy. All I see is a jerk. 

Or daddy/mommy complexes. That just weirds me out. 

At least this example makes some sense. If they don’t value marriage anymore for whatever reason and or don’t think sex outside of marriage matters morally, then sure, why would they care to get married?

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6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Why not? Maybe the woman has no interest in marriage, either.

 

Do you think the man is immoral for being in a serious relationship with a woman he doesn’t plan to marry? 

I’m trying to figure out how you feel about this.

Personally, if anything were to happen to my dh, I would not marry again. If I dated anyone, I would be sure he knew I wasn’t interested in marriage or in living together. I want my own house and my own stuff, and I want to control my money and my assets and I want to ensure that when I die, my son will inherit everything I have. I don’t want him to have to split it with anyone, and if I had a new dh or a live-in companion, they might make things difficult for ds. I don’t plan to be a hermit, but the last thing I would want to do is remarry. Additionally, being older, I wouldn’t just be marrying the man; I would probably have to deal with his children and grandchildren, and that could be a major source of stress. If I’m not married to the guy, he can deal with his family and give them money and let them stay at his house and babysit his grandkids every weekend, and do whatever else he wants to do with and for them, and it’s neither my responsibility nor my concern.  Freedom is good.

My late MIL was a widow for years, and people used to ask her why she never remarried. She told them she had no interest in taking care of anyone but herself, and the single older men she knew would mostly be looking for someone to cook for them, clean for them, do their laundry, and take care of them when they were sick. She said she would have gladly done all of those things for dh’s father if he was still alive, but she wasn’t about to start over with someone new. She had lots of friends and she was able to travel and do whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted to do it, without having to answer to anyone. She had a very happy life. 

 

Not scarlett but as for myself:

I wouldn’t consider him in a serious relationship. But I would consider him in an immoral relationship. 

Also, I’d be like your mil. If anything happens that leaves me single - I have no desire nor reason to ever remarry and a multitude of reasons, not even counting the kids, not to remarry. 

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4 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

Not scarlett but as for myself:

I wouldn’t consider him in a serious relationship. But I would consider him in an immoral relationship. 

Also, I’d be like your mil. If anything happens that leaves me single - I have no desire nor reason to ever remarry and a multitude of reasons, not even counting the kids, not to remarry. 

 

But in fairness to the guy, we don’t really know that it’s an immoral relationship by anyone’s definition of the term. We just know that he cares about a woman, but he doesn’t want to marry her. We don’t know if they’re living together or if they’re sleeping together. It’s not fair to judge the guy based on a few sentences Scarlett overheard in the store.

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2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

But in fairness to the guy, we don’t really know that it’s an immoral relationship by anyone’s definition of the term. We just know that he cares about a woman, but he doesn’t want to marry her. We don’t know if they’re living together or if they’re sleeping together. It’s not fair to judge the guy based on a few sentences Scarlett overheard in the store.

 

Oh well. I’m judging based on criterion put forth in a this debatable scenario.  If that’s not the case, then good for him and her. 

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2 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

Oh well. I’m judging based on criterion put forth in a this debatable scenario.  If that’s not the case, then good for him and her. 

 

I’m not willing to judge the guy when this is the only information we have:

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Employee said ‘ you getting married?’ Customer said , ‘no she is a keeper, a great gal, but I just can’t risk that again.’

 

A few quick sentences in a casual conversation between a store employee and a customer doesn’t really tell us much at all.

Honestly, I doubt I would have paid any attention to it if I had been there, and if I did think anything about it, I probably would have simply assumed the guy had his reasons and let it go at that. Why would I care whether or not some guy at the store wants to get married?

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3 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

There’s lots of relationships I don’t understand. This board is full of people asking relationship questions that they don’t get either. 

I don’t understand anything about hookups. I just don’t get it. That mindset makes no sense to me at all. 

I don’t understand people who think “bad boys/girls” are sexy. All I see is a jerk. 

Or daddy/mommy complexes. That just weirds me out. 

At least this example makes some sense. If they don’t value marriage anymore for whatever reason and or don’t think sex outside of marriage matters morally, then sure, why would they care to get married?

 

Ok, I did NOT get much sleep last night (stressing over things) but I am not even sure I understand what you mean by bad girls/boys are sexy?   And how does that make him/her a jerk?

And what is the daddy or mommy complex?  I guess I have missed some posts!

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DH and I have talked about what we would do if one of us died.  He claims he would never marry again.  I told him I might marry again! 😘  I get lonely by myself.  I didn't marry until I was 29 and I remember the loneliness and wanting someone, BUT, not being willing to just settle either.  I was accused of being too picky, too judgmental about guys, etc......and several of those who "accused" me are now divorced.  I get where they were coming from back then, but some of them settled, and I knew it.  

I am seeing several of. you mention finances.....I get that.....but can't you do a pre-nup?  Or is that still legally problematic?  I really don't know much about it.  I would want to make sure my $$ went to my kids as well.  And I would want to make sure my Aspie was well cared for in particular.

 

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One reason women "settle" is because they are brought up to have low standards of men. They don't expect any better because they haven't seen any better or been treated as though they deserve any better.
Another is because they either don't yet know or don't believe that there are worse things than being alone.

Or they don't care about marriage either. Or they do but put it aside because their lover has hang ups, the same as everyone else does.

Etc.

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