Wwyd?

[Pen]

 

Please don’t quote.

Related to the death of my son’s bio-father, there is a woman who is possibly a semi-well meaning busybody, possibly a not so well meaning sociopath.  I don’t know whether to try to talk with her or whether to stay away from her .

If I talk with her, I don’t know what to say.  

 It is long distance and she has keys to the house and so forth so could potentially be helpful.  But within a couple hours of the death was calling real estate agent friend as if she thinks she is in charge. She originally got involved, apparently, because she thought she could take the property over by paying property taxes on it.  Now she apparently has a document, not a will, written by her and signed by the bio-father directing her to ...  Not clear what ...    I am considering sending her a text asking for a copy of the alleged document.  But I think I might be being sucked into a rabbit hole.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Pen

[unsinkable]

 

Is your son entitled to any of his bio-dad's estate?

If so, I'd play "the butter won't melt in my mouth" routine with her until you get the info you needed.

I'd also by a cheap tracfone and only give her that number. Say your number has changed.

[solascriptura]

Who is handling the estate?  I would ask them about it.  I didn't think that documents, like you mentioned, had any significance until notarized.  

[brehon]

I agree with the others:  find out who is the executer of the will/estate and work with that person. Be sweet as pie but completely uncommunicative with Ms. Busy-Body — meaning give away no information or anything she could possibly use to the detriment of your son. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

The executor of the estate needs to get the keys from her or have the locks changed. (I am assuming that she is not the executor). 

[Alicia64]

My .02: trust your gut.

Alley

[happi duck]

Another vote for trust your gut and contact the executor.

[Pen]

Please don’t quote

Trust gut = good  

At this moment no executor or at least not known.  

AFAIK bio father  probably didn’t get around to making a will.  The place he supposedly was going to get will and transfer on death deed done is closed for the holidays. I may know more late next week.  

Funeral home gave me the names of a couple of lawyers to contact— both closed for holidays.  

However, deed recording  office  answered phone and No TOD was recorded (alas), so probably no will was done either.   The assisted living place bio father was at said they usually scan a will into computer if there is one, and they don’t have that. (They did have the correct funeral instructions, which are basically for cremation and remains go to Ds for whatever ceremony ds wants to do and scattering. ). So I think probably there isn’t a Will.  

It looks like ds likely should inherit anything inheritable — after debts are paid — which could be zero left, or maximum maybe as much as 160k , could be a help toward something in life for ds.  .  

AFAIK I need to find some lawyer to handle it, since the death and property were in another state and too hard for me to do long distance, probably.  I am concerned about becoming personally on the line for legal, court, appraisal fees, etc, only to find there is nothing left of value.  I want to avoid stress too as much as I can, but am already finding this all very stressful.  

I hope to find someone who can do the legal and presumably court appointed executor work with reimbursement from the “estate” not me personally.   In theory if the full value is less than 150k it could be done with submission to court of an affidavit of small estate on Ds behalf, without a lawyer, rather than probate.   If biofather had done a TOD for real property that would certainly have worked to deal with anything else.

I would have liked to be a UTMA custodian till ds turns 21 so he would not fritter away any money left or buy a racy car at age 18 and kill himself, and so property could be sold if he were still a minor, but looks like the UTMA ship probably sailed.  

However, maybe??? part of what an executor could do would be liquidate the property rather than transfer the property.  

I don’t know what is possible or even what would be best.  The property is in California — poor area of, and  possible drug and problem area.  OTOH it might be something ds could work with as a real estate start himself (which he has expressed interest in), as he is a year and 2 months from adulthood.  

Yikes.  I need to de stress. I need some chocolate 🤪

[Pen]

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I am not quite sure what it is you have going on.

 

Did the deceased have a will, and if so, is there a named executor?  I ask because FIL did not have a will, and as such there was no named executor.  DH and SIL had to go through a lawyer and court paperwork just to be named co-administrators.  

No will apparently.  Said he would get one, but looks like he didn’t. 

Terms like co-administrator are good to know.  Thank you! 

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

How do you have contact with this person?  Did she contact you?  Or your son?  Or someone else?

 

She contacted me.  She has my phone numbers and address, And she has done things like send ds baby pictures and picture of his mother.  

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Does your son's bio-father have any other next of kin?  I hope I am not mixing your post with someone else's but If am recalling correctly, the bio father was elderly, in assisted living of some sort, and your son was his only bio family?  Is that correct?

 

That’s correct basically. There is a surviving sibling.  

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Regardless, having more information is good, so it might be a good time to research estate laws in the location that he lived/passed away.  Laws for these sorts of things vary by state so knowledge about what the laws are in that state can help give you direction, even if there's nothing you can act on.   But I wouldn't act on anything until you have more information.

 

Research: That is what I have been doing.

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

As an aside, someone who thinks they can take over a property just by paying the taxes and/or producing some random document......I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them (and couldn't throw them far lol)   

 

Thanks.  

[Pen]

7 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Ok....so you DS is the only bio family?

He is the only natural born “issue” (in the legal sense of child)   No bio family contests that he is closest person or that biofather wanted things to go to him (and possibly to me, but that’s not at issue once TOD wasn’t done).  I was concerned that having adopted ds would be a bar, but it looks like the state forms include natural born children even if adopted by 3rd party as issue for intestate succession.  

Quote

How old is your DS?,

 

16.  Heading toward 17. 

Edited December 30, 2018 by Pen

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Ok, I think we are posting at the same time.  😁

 

Yes 😃

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

DH and SIL handled FIL's estate.............................................which means that mostly I did.  I can give you information on how things happened here....I don't want to overwhelm you so if you want what I can share, I can post it, and share how I would have handled such a person when FIL passed.  We in fact DID have a neighbor of FIL'S, that had keys, but she was a help rather than a problem.  And of course, all laws vary by state.   

 

 

 

I’d love to know more!

How you would handle such a person, and how you dealt with the FIL legal situation.

 

[Pen]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

TOD-you mean "transfer on death"  Correct?  And that was supposed to be for the house the bio dad owned?

 

 

 

Right.  A Transfer on Death deed for the house he owned.  

 

[Pen]

@happysmileylady Thanks!!!

again please don’t quote 

 

 I need to deal with dinner and such and will check in later also.

One good thing for us was that funeral home and expenses were prearranged and prepaid,  including that extra was paid to get remains to wherever ds might be when bio-father died even if overseas (in case of study abroad, military) The overseas part turned out to be unnecessary.  But it was  a huge benefit not to be trying to figure out funeral type arrangements especially with it so close to Christmas.  Worth knowing maybe for people reading this. 

Around 8 hour one way driving time, with part of Cascades/Sierras between, and beyond what I can do with my own limitations.  

The water was already turned off so pipes won’t freeze.  But that would have been major to think of if not.  

People getting in was already a problem while he was in the assisted living place.  I thought of calling the police there, to let them know of death,  but haven’t done that.  

The woman with the key lives a few blocks away.  I could call someone who lives across street to keep an eye out, though not sure much has changed compared to when he was in assisted living.  

He had said he was putting me as a POD on a small account (couple hundred dollars maybe—he was, except for the house, basically with all assets “spent down” for assisted living) to help deal with things, but as with the TOD, he may have intended to, but not done it.  I do know bank name he mentioned and have calling that on my to do list. 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

State law is what governs this.

I know a good estate lawyer in Santa Cruz.  I know that that is some distance away, but at least he could give you a consultation to find out how the intestate laws would work.  He might be able to refer you to someone local as well.

[Pen]

@happysmileylady  thank you that gives me a lot to think about.  I take it you meant judge required a lawyer to make filings not the reverse?  

Vehicle: a mystery what happened to it, possibly already sold or repossessed or something.  

From the forms I saw it may be that a lawyer is required, not optional, if real property is involved.  

@Carol in Cal. lawyer contact info would be appreciated.  I think my pm box may be full. I’ll pm you with my email.   Can’t send pm either due to full pm  I’ll do some clearing tomorrow.  Is this lawyer named Broitman or similar? 

 

Edited December 30, 2018 by Pen

[Carol in Cal.]

56 minutes ago, Pen said:

@happysmileylady  thank you that gives me a lot to think about.  I take it you meant judge required a lawyer to make filings not the reverse?  

Vehicle: a mystery what happened to it, possibly already sold or repossessed or something.  

From the forms I saw it may be that a lawyer is required, not optional, if real property is involved.  

@Carol in Cal. lawyer contact info would be appreciated.  I think my pm box may be full. I’ll pm you with my email.   Can’t send pm either due to full pm  I’ll do some clearing tomorrow.  Is this lawyer named Broitman or similar? 

 

Yes, he’s a good guy.  I know him personally.

[StephanieZ]

A couple thoughts.

You need to hire an estate attorney in the location where bio dad held property and died. It may be just $1000-2000 or so. Probably not HUGELY expensive. Get a good one. Period. 

It is unlikely you can legally withhold the property/inheritance from your son once he is 18. Talk to the attorney, but I highly doubt you can do it legally since there was no trust in place when his bio dad died. 

If I were you, I'd find the best estate attorney possible, and let them handle the rest. This is just not the sort of thing I'd want to try to do on my own, as the risks are waaaaayyyy too high. The right attorney will make you or break you. I'd *much* rather work 10 hr/wk at a low wage job for a few months to a year to pay the attorney fees than much around trying to do it myself.

BOTTOM LINE: When you need an attorney . . . you need an attorney. Period.

 

 

[Pen]

6 minutes ago, StephanieZ said:

A couple thoughts.

You need to hire an estate attorney in the location where bio dad held property and died. It may be just $1000-2000 or so.

By statute it looked to me probably like $10,000 -20,000 for attorney, executor, appraiser, court costs is more realistic.  What makes you think  $1000-2000?

6 minutes ago, StephanieZ said:

Probably not HUGELY expensive. Get a good one. Period. 

 

That itself seems not so easy.  I will be contacting the one Carol in Cal knows (though not in same part of state, maybe that won’t matter),  and had left messages for a couple that funeral home told me about.  Holidays not an easy time for this.  I will also call the state bar referral service. 

Have you other suggestions?

 I would love to put it into a good lawyer’s hands.  

 

 

6 minutes ago, StephanieZ said:

If I were you, I'd find the best estate attorney possible, and let them handle the rest. This is just not the sort of thing I'd want to try to do on my own, as the risks are waaaaayyyy too high. The right attorney will make you or break you.

 

I agree.  How would you find the right attorney? 

 

I should add that some estate attorneys clearly don’t want to be involved with a piddling small size estate.    It could be a lot of work for what for them is not much money, even though to me the costs seem significant.  

 

6 minutes ago, StephanieZ said:

I'd *much* rather work 10 hr/wk at a low wage job for a few months to a year to pay the attorney fees than much around trying to do it myself.

 

I have a disability such that that’s not an option. 

 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

The lawyer fees we paid were under $3k.  I just went through our papers and looked it up.  FIL's house sold for $130k, and he had a mortgage on it.  Again, his only other assets were his truck (which was upside down), a boat, and the contents of the house.  So it wasn't a huge estate or anything.  

 

Again please don’t quote.  

What we are dealing with is probably in same value range.  House is in bad shape by modern standards (though at core is solid old growth redwood as an original cabin from gold rush era or close to that) and 500ish sq feet 1 bed 1 bath, so might sell for a lot less.  OTOH, it is on 2 lots each of which could probably legally have a duplex (according to biofather) so might perhaps be worth more.    However, by California standards 100k ish is  low.  (One possible attorney said he deals with Silicon Valley type “successful” clients.) 

In California probate fees seem to be set at 4% for attorney, 4% for executor, unknown amount for appraiser, some amount for court and other such fees, so possibly around 10% total.  

I hope that that means 10% ish of value of estate after reductions for amounts owed, liens, etc.     

 

[StephanieZ]

23 hours ago, Pen said:

By statute it looked to me probably like $10,000 -20,000 for attorney, executor, appraiser, court costs is more realistic.  What makes you think  $1000-2000?

 

That itself seems not so easy.  I will be contacting the one Carol in Cal knows (though not in same part of state, maybe that won’t matter),  and had left messages for a couple that funeral home told me about.  Holidays not an easy time for this.  I will also call the state bar referral service. 

Have you other suggestions?

 I would love to put it into a good lawyer’s hands.  

 

 

 

I agree.  How would you find the right attorney? 

 

I should add that some estate attorneys clearly don’t want to be involved with a piddling small size estate.    It could be a lot of work for what for them is not much money, even though to me the costs seem significant.  

 

 

I have a disability such that that’s not an option. 

 

 

Well, I handled my mother's estate, and the total cost was well under $2k, and her estate was much larger with many more aspects than what you're talking about. That said, Mom had very good legal documents (she was an attorney herself and updated the documents just a few years before her death, when she was diagnosed). We consulted extensively with the estate attorney we engaged (at least 6-10 conversations over the course of 6 months or so), as my brother and I were co-executors and there were some complications in settling the estate due to very high expenses in her last year of life and a lot of juggling of money to get those expenses paid for. The attorney handled every detail, including establishing several trust accounts necessitated by her will. Total bills were probably about $1000, but I don't recall exactly, and I didn't want to give you a low estimate since I'd not be surprised if our attorney charged us a *little* less than normal due to our prior relationship.

(Our estate attorney is ALSO our family attorney for real estate and business matters, so we've known him for about 14 years. He is also a client of our own business (vet hospital), so there are ties there that certainly might have led him to bill us on the low end . . . but we're not a charity case, and I do NOT believe he charged us dramatically less than he'd have charged anyone else.)

The vast majority of reputable attorneys will gladly offer a FREE initial consultation for about an hour before you are committed to a major investment. If you haven't done that yet, i'd find at least two, ideally three, reputable estate attorneys. Get all your paperwork organized. Write a 1-2 page clear summary of the events/needs/issues. Make the appointments. Hand off the summary document and any relevant legal documents. (Also organize and include and bring copies of an inventory of valuable possessions, address of real estate, death certificate, any/all deeds and other legal documents you can obtain.) The easier you can make it for the lawyer to do their job, the less money you'll spend. (It's all about billable hours.) Do this a couple times, and you'll have a much better idea of your situation and of the cost/benefits of hiring an attorney. 

Estates are common and routine. Get an attorney who knows their stuff, and your situation, although it sounds really complex to you and any other lay person (self included), and they should be able to take care of it with much less time and effort (and thus modest fees) than a lay person could. Besides, they won't screw it up, which a lay person nearly surely would.  

 

 

 

 

[StephanieZ]

ps. Re how to find a good attorney. This is always a PITA. My favorite way is to get referrals from other attorneys or accountants. So, if you have ONE attorney in the region you can really trust (your brother in law, your best friend's ex-husband who was a good guy, etc.), then ask THEM for a referral to a trustworthy estate attorney. If you have to "fly blind", then at least talk to several, ask similar questions of each, and get a feel for them. This is truly the hardest part, IMHO.

[gardenmom5]

I wouldn't trust her at all.  if you have any authority, I would get a locksmith in to change the locks then do what you have to do.

I'd vote she's the not-well-meaning sociopath.

[Janeway]

Doesn't sound well meaning to me. You may need to lawyer up. Watch what you say when you speak to her, IF you speak to her. Have the locks changed ASAP if possible. Many states, it is illegal, when you have minor children, to will away the assets to someone else. 

[gardenmom5]

I just want to share my experience.

My mother was pretty out of it, and my brother was trying really hard to get control.  (she did have a will/trust, and I had her medical POA, and DH her executor)

he wrote up some document to give him control, and had her sign it while she in the hospital.  he took her to the ER, and presented this doc.to the doctors there.  they saw how manipulative he was being, to the point they consulted the hospital's lawyers.   the hospital lawyers gave zero credence to the doc he conjured up - even with her signature.   they backed up the doc who was ready to throw him off the hospital property on my say-so. (I regret not having him thrown out.)

after her death - he had the chutzpuh to demand I get her hospital medical file (they wouldn't give it to him, he wasn't the executor.) so he could find this piece of paper with her signature giving him a bigger chunk of her estate and giving him power over her estate.  (tbh - I wish I'd known then about the nurse who helped him do that paperwork, as I would have reported her to her superiors. yes, she was a sucker and an idiot - but she was way out of line too.)   an equal share of the estate just wasn't enough for him.

trust your gut - this woman isn't to be trusted.

[gardenmom5]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I think the OP said that as far as she knows, there is no actual will.

 

I can say that what we were told, in the state of Indiana, if there is NO will and there are children of the deceased, they are the presumed heirs of the estate.  Which, boiled down, just means that once all the debts of the deceased are paid, everything else goes to the kids, before it might go to siblings or others.  

 

 

more likely not than that there is a legitimate will.  neighbor lady (or whatever she is) has brought forth a doc with his signature she is claiming gives her legal power to do things with the father's property.

if she has keys, I would be very leery of her walking stuff out of the house that she wants before the locks can be changed.

 

 

[gardenmom5]

19 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Op said this is not a will, perhaps is's a POA of some sort.  Either way though, I think a lawyer is for sure in order, quickly, so that the lawyer can contact this neighbor.

I agree - lawyer (and locksmith) asap because she's going to try to use it as a will/something.   and I'd change the locks before having a lawyer contact her because I'd be very afraid of her taking anything of value out of the property.

I doubt it is any kind of actual legal document. especially as it is "written by her" (re: not a preprinted legal form document) -  and no poa out there would give someone the right to take over property to sell/etc. - but she thinks this does.

Edited January 1, 2019 by gardenmom5

[TechWife]

It sounds like she may be making a claim on the property. Be very careful - you don't want her to become a squatter. I recommend doing what others have recommended - contact a lawyer and follow his/her advice. If this woman contacts you again, give her the attorney's phone number and tell her to talk to him/her. Since there is distance involved, if the attorney agrees your ds stands to inherit, ask him/her to arrange to have the locks on the house changed ASAP. If you wait to long and this woman has moved in, then your son/you as his representative, becomes her landlord and she is a squatter. It is entirely possible that the attorney could file to become executor of the estate, sell the property and then put the money in a trust fund for your ds to get when he turns 18. I don't think there is any legal need to hang on to the property. I'm not exactly clear on the custody arrangements, so I will add this as well: if the bio-dad gave up his parental rights and your ds was adopted, then he may not automatically be the heir, the property may go to another biological relative, no matter how distant, of the bio-dad. This is why it's important for you to talk to an attorney.

Let me know if you want me to delete any of this.

[Pen]

4 hours ago, StephanieZ said:

 

Well, I handled my mother's estate, and the total cost was well under $2k, and her estate was much larger with many more aspects than what you're talking about. That said, Mom had very good legal documents (she was an attorney herself and updated the documents just a few years before her death, when she was diagnosed). We consulted extensively with the estate attorney we engaged (at least 6-10 conversations over the course of 6 months or so), as my brother and I were co-executors and there were some complications in settling the estate due to very high expenses in her last year of life and a lot of juggling of money to get those expenses paid for. The attorney handled every detail, including establishing several trust accounts necessitated by her will. Total bills were probably about $1000, but I don't recall exactly, and I didn't want to give you a low estimate since I'd not be surprised if our attorney charged us a *little* less than normal due to our prior relationship.

(Our estate attorney is ALSO our family attorney for real estate and business matters, so we've known him for about 14 years. He is also a client of our own business (vet hospital), so there are ties there that certainly might have led him to bill us on the low end . . . but we're not a charity case, and I do NOT believe he charged us dramatically less than he'd have charged anyone else.)

The vast majority of reputable attorneys will gladly offer a FREE initial consultation for about an hour before you are committed to a major investment. If you haven't done that yet, i'd find at least two, ideally three, reputable estate attorneys. Get all your paperwork organized. Write a 1-2 page clear summary of the events/needs/issues. Make the appointments. Hand off the summary document and any relevant legal documents. (Also organize and include and bring copies of an inventory of valuable possessions, address of real estate, death certificate, any/all deeds and other legal documents you can obtain.) The easier you can make it for the lawyer to do their job, the less money you'll spend. (It's all about billable hours.) Do this a couple times, and you'll have a much better idea of your situation and of the cost/benefits of hiring an attorney. 

Estates are common and routine. Get an attorney who knows their stuff, and your situation, although it sounds really complex to you and any other lay person (self included), and they should be able to take care of it with much less time and effort (and thus modest fees) than a lay person could. Besides, they won't screw it up, which a lay person nearly surely would.  

 

 

 

 

 

It sounds to me like you are describing a very different situation of finding an attorney and setting up a trust, wills, etc. —  then after the death occurs putting the trust etc into effect.  

 

One reason that is done is precisely to avoid the sort of situation that I am looking at with likely high probate costs.  

 

 

 

 

[Pen]

4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

more likely not than that there is a legitimate will.  neighbor lady (or whatever she is) has brought forth a doc with his signature she is claiming gives her legal power to do things with the father's property.

if she has keys, I would be very leery of her walking stuff out of the house that she wants before the locks can be changed.

 

 

 

She likely already has.  

And I don’t have afaik proximity or personal authority as to locks.  

[Pen]

 

3 hours ago, TechWife said:

 

It is entirely possible that the attorney could file to become executor of the estate, sell the property and then put the money in a trust fund for your ds to get when he turns 18.

That would be ideal, I think. Not to have to deal with the property itself. 

No TOD is going to cost a lot, as difference between a smoothe easy transfer versus probate, but if I can find a good lawyer there could be an advantage of ds ending up with a smaller but liquid amount in an account, rather than a difficult property to deal with long distance.  

3 hours ago, TechWife said:

I don't think there is any legal need to hang on to the property. I'm not exactly clear on the custody arrangements, so I will add this as well: if the bio-dad gave up his parental rights and your ds was adopted, then he may not automatically be the heir, the property may go to another biological relative, no matter how distant, of the bio-dad. This is why it's important for you to talk to an attorney.

 

Yes.  I adopted him. Normally, adoption severs the relationship for inheritance, but in this situation because it fits a statutory exception, it should be that ds can inherit.  

I have the Code sections for that because the lawyers may not know. 

However, that is within the area that worries me about possible legal costs without actual benefit.  

 

[TechWife]

My mother owned a house upon her death and had no savings. It cost $250 to probate her will. There is really no way that I am aware of to avoid probate when there is property involved for which a transfer was not arranged before death. I think that ship has already sailed. 

[StephanieZ]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

It sounds to me like you are describing a very different situation of finding an attorney and setting up a trust, wills, etc. —  then after the death occurs putting the trust etc into effect.  

 

One reason that is done is precisely to avoid the sort of situation that I am looking at with likely high probate costs.  

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed, it was a different situation. Mom had a trust as well as a will and all documents were squared away. That said, there was still probate (*all* estates are probated IME), which the lawyer handled. 

I'm not saying it was the same situation, but just trying to share my experiences. 

Fine a lawyer. Ask about fees. See if it's worth your while to pursue the estate, or not. If it's worth your while, you'll need a lawyer. 

Every state has their own laws. 

In my situation, the attorney fees were NOT tied to the amount probated nor the value of the entire estate. They were essentially flat fees for handling the estate, and were modest. The value of the probated portion of the estate (the parts outside of her living trust) were certainly over 6 figures. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, StephanieZ said:

Fine a lawyer. Ask about fees. See if it's worth your while to pursue the estate, or not. If it's worth your while, you'll need a lawyer. 

 

I agree with this.  

[Pen]

2 hours ago, TechWife said:

My mother owned a house upon her death and had no savings. It cost $250 to probate her will. There is really no way that I am aware of to avoid probate when there is property involved for which a transfer was not arranged before death. I think that ship has already sailed. 

 

Yes.  That ship sailed.  

[Pen]

On 1/1/2019 at 6:08 PM, TechWife said:

My mother owned a house upon her death and had no savings. It cost $250 to probate her will. There is really no way that I am aware of to avoid probate when there is property involved for which a transfer was not arranged before death. I think that ship has already sailed. 

 

Or possibly not.

 

 If it is low enough value, which I don’t know if it is under or over the qualifying amount, probate is not required under state law.  

 

Filings still have to be made with a court.  But in a less costly and less cumbersome process than probate apparently.  

I have calls in with some lawyers. None has emerged yet to be able to help.  

 

[Pen]

13 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

If you google California Small Estate Summary Procedure, I am thinking you will find lots and lots of info.  

 

I already did.   It’s more complicated and may still need a lawyer if real property is involved.  But could end up being less than around 10% fees total.  But I don’t know if the property will fit the limit or not.

possibly that’s why the woman I have concerns about thought calling a real estate agent was a first step, but if so, she didn’t say so.  

I guess probate in Cal is much more expensive than some states.