Finding the balance (pushing kids to do things or backing off)

[Southern Ivy]

Editing - I didn't make this clear, I don't think. 
My question is more generic - When you come across something your child doesn't want to do, when do you gently push and when do you know to back off? 

My daughter (6) is a pretty good swimmer. She's taken private lessons for the last 9 months and has come very far. We opted to stop private lessons because she wasn't taking it seriously. However, the swim coach is also one of the coaches for the local community swim team. He let us come and do some practices to see how she liked it. She worked so hard and I think the competition of the other kids in her group really helped. 

I asked her how she liked it when she was done and she said "I had fun." 
I said, "That's great! Ready to come back tomorrow?" 
"No - I had fun, but I don't want to do it anymore." 

I asked more questions and basically, she said "There were too many people in the lane and I had to keep swimming and couldn't play."  (She's used to having the competition pool almost completely to herself and she's been allowed to play more during lessons - they would work, then play, work, then play.) 

DH and I are going to have her go ahead and do swim team this year. The coach knows she has some special needs that might mean we only go half time vs the four days a week, but I do think that even 2 days will be a great character builder. 
That being said, I have a hard time finding a balance between backing off when she say she doesn't want to do something and pushing her to either try something or continue to work at something. 
If I let her do what she wanted to do, she'd just watch TV or play on the tablet all day. (not an issue - just an example)
She would have never learned to swim if we hadn't pushed.
She wouldn't have learned to love Sunday School if we hadn't pushed her to go.
She wouldn't do a lot of things.
But, on the flip side, I don't want to push her so hard that she hates something. 

What do you do? How do you find the balance? 


EDIT: Just adding - she is doing swim team. That's not really the question here. ?Her age level is non-competitive and the coach was her private instructor. It's just adding more people to the mix and giving her some healthy peer pressure. 
 

[mommyoffive]

Is she in other things? 

Why do you want her to do swim team?  To become a better swimmer or to be in something?  

Is there something that she would enjoy being in more? 

Unless I was wanting the kid to be a better swimmer I wouldn't push a 6 year old that said they didn't want to be on swim team to do it.  Can't you just take her to the pool?  

[tampamommy]

She is 6. Super young. At that age, I would save your hard-earned money for extracurriculars she may really want to do when she is older. 

At that age, most kids enjoy doing what is fun in the moment for them. No need to push. They will figure it out as they get older. If they don't, you can encourage that process then. Or even make it a school requirement for "gym" class etc. My children were not involved in extracurriculars until ages 11 and 9, when they both started a weekly tennis lesson. For DS, that led to intense practice and competition on the Jr USTA circuit. He developed into a great player and loved it; he was pushing for it and enjoyed competing for 6 years. DD shifted from tennis to gymnastics at age 10. Many people said she was "too old" to start gymnastics at age 10...but she loved it, worked really hard and developed into a competitive gymnast, at a fairly high level, who excelled and won many competitions. 

When they are little, I think it is important to expose them to many different activities and encourage them to try stuff. If they are really good at something, but just want to play at it, then let them. There are so many years left for formal or organized settings. Let them be kids when they are very young! They only get to do that once :)

As far as things to keep her busy other than tv or tablets...I used to plan structured fun learning activities for our break times. I kept a list of ideas as I thought of them throughout the year. K'nex, new legos, music/story cds, snap circuits, special arts and crafts, field trips, microscope stuff...you get the idea. Sometimes I would put new educational birthday/Christmas gifts away and bring them out during breaks. We tried to do one each day, or at least several per week. The kids loved it, because they would wake up knowing something new and exciting was going to happen that day. It helped teach them that you could be doing something relaxing, fun, and productive at the same time. It was encouraging to see at the end of each break how much "learning" we had actually accomplished! 

That's my 2 cents. HTH!

[SKL]

Sounds like you decided already.

I decided activities for my kids when they were that age.  We didn't start team sports until they were 7, but we were doing a lot of other things.

Swim team was a lot of great exercise - mostly conditioning vs. competition.  It can be good socially if there are others her age there.  It wasn't really a hit with my kids (they didn't love it or hate it), but I liked the exercise aspect of it so we stuck it out for one year.  The competition side (summer only in our town) was too much for me.  I would not do it again because it pretty much assumes you have nothing else going on in your life.

[Alice]

I don’t have a hard and fast rule, it’s kind of more of a gut thing. There have been things I pushed my kids to do and things I let them give up on. 

I made them all do swim team until 8 years old. The 8 was somewhat arbitrary...I wanted them to be strong swimmers for safety so swimming wasn’t optional. We belong to a summer pool with an awesome team. I thought that if they did it they would eventually love it. It’s worked out well for us. The two boys went through a period of not liking it but I told them they could quit when they were 8 and a stronger swimmer. Then 8 was the year that they each got put in the more competitive and fun meets and started really liking it. Now all three are great swimmers and our summer revolves around swim team. My oldest swims year round fairly seriously and loves it. Middle son just does it in the summer for fun but loves the whole swim team culture. I love that it’s a sport that we can all do at the same place....that’s one reason I insisted on it. I think pushing them was the right thing to do. 

I also wanted music to be mandatory since I am tone deaf and I knew I couldn’t teach it as a homeschooler. We did piano. Middle son hated it and I let him quit. We took about two years off of any music lessons for him and just let him mess around on the piano as he wanted and then in the past year he has started trumpet and really loves it. Quitting was the right thing to do there. 

Overall it depends somewhat on the kid. My middle son really hates organized anything and is super stubborn (he gets it honestly from his mother so I can’t blame him). He knows himself and what he wants. We require physical activity but not a sport. We tried to work with him to find a music option that he would enjoy, etc. 

I can also tell if my kids truly hate something. If I’m watching a practice and they are having a good time, laughing, playing and then they say they just don’t want to do it...I might push them to keep going. That was how swim was. If they really truly hate something, I would let them quit. And when we do push them we try and give them the rational “I think it’s important for you to be a really strong swimmer so I want you to do this.” I also think knowing there is an end helps. When we did piano, I told my middle son in the middle of a year that he could quit at the end of that year if he wanted to. That helped a lot with his attitude because he knew that there was an end. 

[HomeAgain]

No hard rule here, either.

I would take her attitude as "not right now".  She wants to play, and that's fine for a 6yo. 
On the flip side, though.....there are times where my 8yo wants to give up violin (he's been playing for a year and a half).  Since overall he does enjoy it, and he does love his lessons, I will nudge him through the hard times (usually a new piece or technique). And he was apprehensive about doing an outdoor class I signed him up for but then didn't want to come home the first day. But when he stared at me and told me under no circumstances could I make him get into the water at swim lessons, I canceled them and let him get used to swimming at his own pace.  So.....gut feeling?  If I thought my kid should really do something, I might push him into it.  If I thought he'd get more out of it when he was older or it could wait, I'd shelve it.    Same if I saw a lot of resistance to the idea.  He wouldn't be ready to absorb the information and I'd waste both our time.

[Southern Ivy]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Is she in other things? 

Why do you want her to do swim team?  To become a better swimmer or to be in something?  

Is there something that she would enjoy being in more? 

Unless I was wanting the kid to be a better swimmer I wouldn't push a 6 year old that said they didn't want to be on swim team to do it.  Can't you just take her to the pool?  

She is a really good swimmer, honestly. But, we are around the water enough that we need her to have good skills as well. 
We play at the pool, but she prefers the little pool (2ft) because it's "easy". This is the same kid who requested that her swim coach take her to the bottom of the 12' pool and made him do it with her multiple times until she was able to make it all the way down and touch the bottom of the pool.
She lives and breathes water, but just staying in the shallow pool because it's easy (her words) doesn't help her get better or maintain her acquired skill. 

1 hour ago, tampamommy said:

She is 6. Super young. At that age, I would save your hard-earned money for extracurriculars she may really want to do when she is older. 

At that age, most kids enjoy doing what is fun in the moment for them. No need to push. They will figure it out as they get older. If they don't, you can encourage that process then. Or even make it a school requirement for "gym" class etc. My children were not involved in extracurriculars until ages 11 and 9, when they both started a weekly tennis lesson. For DS, that led to intense practice and competition on the Jr USTA circuit. He developed into a great player and loved it; he was pushing for it and enjoyed competing for 6 years. DD shifted from tennis to gymnastics at age 10. Many people said she was "too old" to start gymnastics at age 10...but she loved it, worked really hard and developed into a competitive gymnast, at a fairly high level, who excelled and won many competitions. 

She loves swimming. She would live in the pool if she could. She also wants to win a medal - that's been all she's talked about since we started lessons last August.
A big part of the swimming is she also has severe ADHD, so this is a great form of exercise for her and helps us maintain a lot of the hyperactivity. 

[Southern Ivy]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Sounds like you decided already.

I decided activities for my kids when they were that age.  We didn't start team sports until they were 7, but we were doing a lot of other things.

Swim team was a lot of great exercise - mostly conditioning vs. competition.  It can be good socially if there are others her age there.  It wasn't really a hit with my kids (they didn't love it or hate it), but I liked the exercise aspect of it so we stuck it out for one year.  The competition side (summer only in our town) was too much for me.  I would not do it again because it pretty much assumes you have nothing else going on in your life.

Yeah, we decided that she would do swim. We've already been doing private swim for a year, so this is just a minor change.
My question was really supposed to be a more general idea, but I didn't make that clear. ?

Yeah, it is a pretty time consuming event, but thankfully her coach is understanding of our prior appointments and the fact that she might only be able to come 2 out of 4 days.  

[Southern Ivy]

1 hour ago, Alice said:

I don’t have a hard and fast rule, it’s kind of more of a gut thing. There have been things I pushed my kids to do and things I let them give up on. 

I made them all do swim team until 8 years old. The 8 was somewhat arbitrary...I wanted them to be strong swimmers for safety so swimming wasn’t optional. We belong to a summer pool with an awesome team. I thought that if they did it they would eventually love it. It’s worked out well for us. The two boys went through a period of not liking it but I told them they could quit when they were 8 and a stronger swimmer. Then 8 was the year that they each got put in the more competitive and fun meets and started really liking it. Now all three are great swimmers and our summer revolves around swim team. My oldest swims year round fairly seriously and loves it. Middle son just does it in the summer for fun but loves the whole swim team culture. I love that it’s a sport that we can all do at the same place....that’s one reason I insisted on it. I think pushing them was the right thing to do. 

I also wanted music to be mandatory since I am tone deaf and I knew I couldn’t teach it as a homeschooler. We did piano. Middle son hated it and I let him quit. We took about two years off of any music lessons for him and just let him mess around on the piano as he wanted and then in the past year he has started trumpet and really loves it. Quitting was the right thing to do there. 

Overall it depends somewhat on the kid. My middle son really hates organized anything and is super stubborn (he gets it honestly from his mother so I can’t blame him). He knows himself and what he wants. We require physical activity but not a sport. We tried to work with him to find a music option that he would enjoy, etc. 

I can also tell if my kids truly hate something. If I’m watching a practice and they are having a good time, laughing, playing and then they say they just don’t want to do it...I might push them to keep going. That was how swim was. If they really truly hate something, I would let them quit. And when we do push them we try and give them the rational “I think it’s important for you to be a really strong swimmer so I want you to do this.” I also think knowing there is an end helps. When we did piano, I told my middle son in the middle of a year that he could quit at the end of that year if he wanted to. That helped a lot with his attitude because he knew that there was an end. 

Awesome, thank you. I think that's what I was looking for. 
Yes, a big part of this is just her strength as a swimmer. She wants to swim and win a medal, but she doesn't always want to put the work in - I mean, c'mon...she's 6. lol I get it. The coach she has is amazing, but I think she also thrives with the competition. Seeing the other kids working and not goofing off is really important for her too. I'm hesitant to push too far because I don't want her to hate swimming (I think it would take a lot to do that though), but her dad and I really want her to be a strong swimmer for safety. 

34 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

No hard rule here, either.

I would take her attitude as "not right now".  She wants to play, and that's fine for a 6yo. 
On the flip side, though.....there are times where my 8yo wants to give up violin (he's been playing for a year and a half).  Since overall he does enjoy it, and he does love his lessons, I will nudge him through the hard times (usually a new piece or technique). And he was apprehensive about doing an outdoor class I signed him up for but then didn't want to come home the first day. But when he stared at me and told me under no circumstances could I make him get into the water at swim lessons, I canceled them and let him get used to swimming at his own pace.  So.....gut feeling?  If I thought my kid should really do something, I might push him into it.  If I thought he'd get more out of it when he was older or it could wait, I'd shelve it.    Same if I saw a lot of resistance to the idea.  He wouldn't be ready to absorb the information and I'd waste both our time.

Yeah, the "not right now" thing is hard. That's why I'm having a hard time with this. She's already asked when we are going back to swim with the kids and Charles (her coach), but she also says doesn't want to do it. I don't think she knows WHAT she wants. lol 

[Southern Ivy]

Thanks all. 
I've been trying to follow my gut and it sounds like that's what others do/recommend. So, we'll keep on, keeping on. 
'preciate it. 

[Frances]

Learning to swim was non negotiable here, but being on a swim team, especially at age six would not have been required. Can you swim together as a family so that she can still get plenty of exercise, develop her skills, and still have it be playful? My son tried lots of different sports before settling on karate around age eight. Personally, I would see age six as still a time to be trying lots of different things, unless the child has chosen an activity they love.

As for TV and tablet time, having limits seem to work well for most kids, even if they resist at first. Being able to make good use of free time is also an important skill to develop. 

[Katy]

We have so many family activities around water that I require either group swim lessons or swim team until they pass they lifeguard exam. It counts as a pass/fail gym class.  ADHD here too.  I guess I'd see if there are group lessons around as an option too, and then I'd give her the choice, but one or the other would be required.

[wendyroo]

I'm very careful about asking whether my kids like or want to continue activities, because in most cases their participation is not up for debate.

For example, the local kids' gym offers a homeschool class that is a perfect fit for our family.  All of my kids can participate at the same time, it is a great mix of fun fitness activities, they get practice being part of a group and following their coach's directions, and I get an hour to lesson plan.

I'm there the whole time, so I can see very clearly that my kids mostly enjoy the classes and would probably choose to come if given the option.  However, I also know that the older boys don't particularly like the 5 minutes their class spends on calisthenics, that occasionally the class climbs the ropes and my boys hate that, and that in general my kids are fickle and capricious.  So, while I often ask what their favorite part of a class was, I never ask if they are ready, willing or eager to come back for the next class - it simply isn't up to them, so it seems disingenuous to give them the impression it is.

Wendy

[Wheres Toto]

I require my kids to do some physical activity, but I let them pick what it is they want to do.  I also require them to do the 4-H club dh and I run, and they take a couple of the classes I teach as part of their school.  Mostly we let them decide about on-going activities.

That being said, my youngest has anxiety which used to keep her from being willing to try anything, even things she really wanted her to do.  When it was at it's worst, we would push her to do things she expressed interest in.  We would tell her that she didn't have to continue with it if she hated it, but we would basically force her to try it once.  We did it with choir, which she ended up loving and doing for three years (she just recently decided to quit), we did it with swim team but it was very low pressure/not very competitive and only for the summer at our local lake.  She has decided she doesn't want to do it this year because she loves swimming but doesn't like competing even if it's low-key, especially now that she's in an older age group.  We are letting her skip it this year (she's done it the past two years).   We did it with Tai Kwan Do and she just tested for her red/black belt tonight. That she is continuing to do.

We no longer have to push her to do things so we just let her pick what she wants to do now.  Her anxiety has improved a lot in the past few years and, after finding some activities that she's really good at, she's also much more confident than she used to be.

[Southern Ivy]

Just now, Where's Toto? said:

 

That being said, my youngest has anxiety which used to keep her from being willing to try anything, even things she really wanted her to do.  When it was at it's worst, we would push her to do things she expressed interest in.  We would tell her that she didn't have to continue with it if she hated it, but we would basically force her to try it once. 

That's my kiddo. If we don't gently push, she won't try anything. It's just been a hard balance for me to figure out because I'm a pushover. lol

[Southern Ivy]

52 minutes ago, Frances said:

Learning to swim was non negotiable here, but being on a swim team, especially at age six would not have been required. Can you swim together as a family so that she can still get plenty of exercise, develop her skills, and still have it be playful? My son tried lots of different sports before settling on karate around age eight. Personally, I would see age six as still a time to be trying lots of different things, unless the child has chosen an activity they love.

As for TV and tablet time, having limits seem to work well for most kids, even if they resist at first. Being able to make good use of free time is also an important skill to develop. 

It's "swim team", but at her age, it's not competitive at all. It's a fun time, but less fun than what she was getting away with in private swim. ? Swim is non-negotiable with dad right now - either continued private lessons or swim team. Swim team helps her meet people and helps her see other people working. She's competitive, so she works a lot harder. At her level, it's just a more concentrated swim lesson. 
She would like dance or gymnastics, but those are not readily available around here or are a much higher cost than we are able to pay. 

The TV/tablet thing was just an example - if I didn't push her to do other things, she wouldn't. She refused to do swim lessons, but it was non-negotiable. However, we did recognize she needed it approached differently, so we went to private lessons. However, once her coach got her comfortable, she hated leaving the pool.

The question I had was more in general - if your child doesn't want to do something, when you push, when do you back off.  ?

[Southern Ivy]

58 minutes ago, Katy said:

We have so many family activities around water that I require either group swim lessons or swim team until they pass they lifeguard exam. It counts as a pass/fail gym class.  ADHD here too.  I guess I'd see if there are group lessons around as an option too, and then I'd give her the choice, but one or the other would be required.

There are group lessons, but she works better with the swim team coach, which is a big part of why we put her in it. 

I was more just curious in general how people determine when to push or back off when the child says 'no'. I just didn't make it super clear. 

[Katy]

7 minutes ago, Southern Ivy said:

There are group lessons, but she works better with the swim team coach, which is a big part of why we put her in it. 

I was more just curious in general how people determine when to push or back off when the child says 'no'. I just didn't make it super clear. 

In that case I'd follow your instincts and sign her up for one session. When in doubt, instincts are usually right.

[Tap]

I would not push swim team on a young child. My kids were swimmers and it is many hours of just swimming in circles each week.  Unless the kid has a passion for it, forcing a kid into swim team is a great way to kill the desire to participate in a sport that they could be great at in a few years.

If the child says "no" to any competitive sport....I back off.  My kids were required to participate in a some sport most of the year, but it could be rec classes, competitive or private lessons. I didn't care. It was about learning new things and being physically active. 

Why can't she just stay working with the private coach?  Mixing fun into refining strokes is a great way to advance skills and still keep the child motivated.

[PeterPan]

14 hours ago, Southern Ivy said:

My question is more generic - When you come across something your child doesn't want to do, when do you gently push and when do you know to back off?

I could compel my ds through about 7, and then that ended. I agree with Wendy's point about optional vs. not optional. If it's not an option to discontinue, don't frame it as asking their opinion. With my ds there were other ways to tell, like whether he came out smiling and excited or stressed or overwhelmed.

Reality is, the child is going to have some opinions, and she's going to take these formative experiences and put them together in her mind and come to some conclusions. You might not like what she concludes. 

My two cents, having had a dc who was VERY energetic like that, is to cross-train. Don't confuse her ability with maturity. The appropriate amount of swim team for that age is 1-2 days a week max. That means if you want her doing more, you go do more sports. Cross-training will make her stronger, prevent repetitive motion injuries, and head off burnout.

We've talked about retained reflexes. Fwiw, my ds' insane need to be in motion chilled as we got his reflexes integrated. It was a pretty dramatic change. Might be something to keep working on. We went from doing multiple hours of sports every single day to not needing ANY to be at the sample place behaviorally. Huge change. 

[J-rap]

No hard and fast rules here either.  It was a case by case decision.  ?  I usually just trusted my instinct regarding whether to push or not.  My fall-back was not to push.  Now and then, there were occasions where I knew they'd end up loving it (or needing it) so I did.

I actually had a discussion about this with my adult children recently.  My dd was glad we didn't push too much;  she said that given her personality, it probably would have backfired.

On the other hand, very young children sometimes just don't know!  I can think of several occasions where I didn't even ask them if they were interested in a summer community ed activity.  I just signed them up!

[SereneHome]

So, on one hand - I push.  On another - I let back off and let them quit.

My oldest - if I never "pushed", the kid would have NO experiences.  There would be books he had never read.  Places he never went.  Things he never tried.  He is super cautions about anything "new" and needs advance notice.  I don't think there was anything that I "pushed" him into that he ever didn't like or regret it.

Other two kids are easier - they are more flexible and would agree to try things.

That being said, I let my kids quit things all the time bc the way I see it - 1) people in general quit things all the time, so just bc you are under 18, why shouldn't you be able to quit 2) knowing when to quit is an important skill to learn and I would rather they learn it now than when they are 45.