What would you think if someone told you...

[Jean in Newcastle]

18 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Well, it could be that, but it's not really the impression I had from the OP. 

I'm surprised you only have organic produce available, there is a ton of stuff on the shelves of supermarkets here that is certified organic, from bullion cubes to tv dinners to condiments, all kinds of flour, dairy products.  Even milk though our laws already prohibit use of hormones.  Most of it is imported from the US too, so I'd assumed it's as available there.  

 

I think you misunderstood me. We have all of those as well but they are mixed in with the nonorganic foods. The only place where organic foods are set apart are in the produce section.   I told you it was a simplistic mistake. ?

[Bluegoat]

8 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I think you misunderstood me. We have all of those as well but they are mixed in with the nonorganic foods. The only place where organic foods are set apart are in the produce section.   I told you it was a simplistic mistake. ?

 

I think I must have missed something then - are you saying people might not realize that stuff is also organic certified because it isn't separated out?

[Katy]

Interesting. Penicillin mold grows SO easily on produce that if someone allergic to penicillin had a reaction I'd assume the fruit or bread they'd eaten was moldy but just not showing it yet, rather than assuming antibiotics had been sprayed on it.  The other day I ate a peach and at the last bite the pit fell apart.  Filled with green mold.  I was thankful I wasn't allergic to penicillin.

[Bluegoat]

Plants can also, apparently, take up antibiotics from the soil.

[shawthorne44]

20 hours ago, Pen said:

...

It seems there can be a number of different reasons for it  such as the way a detoxification pathway may work, autoimmunity, more than a few people I know who had Lyme disease Or Mycoplasma seem to have trouble with artificial chemicals, being exposed to some toxic problem like black mold or pesticide or other such things seems to have made others more susceptible to even the tinie...

 

This is a skin example of that, not gut.   I was working on my lawn sprinkler system and I spilled the jar of one of the chemicals onto my hand.  I cleaned it off thoroughly, no big deal.  It didn't hurt and I took care of it immediately.  

For about 10 years after that I had a latex allergy on my hands.  I was an Engineer in a cleanroom so I wore latex gloves many hours a day.  It started immediately after the spill.   

 

[skimomma]

15 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

How lovely for you. 

My walkable grocery store - because I don't drive - so I WALK to where I can buy food - does not carry such items, and the organic items  it does carry are EXPENSIVE. 

To catch a bus to a store which would sell a wide range of organic goods would add another $7 to my grocery bill. Small change to some. It would also add another hour + of travel time. 

Sorry. Bring your own flipping cake if mine are gonna poison you.

 

Whoa.  It was a serious question.  I think you took my comment as combative rather than surprised.  I live in a very small and politically conservative town with very few shopping choices so when organic everything became available here I figured it was pretty much the last frontier when it came to availability (aside from urban food deserts....which is a whole other issue).

I never stated that it was not expensive, that you should buy organic, that you should go out of your way to find organic, or that your "flipping cake" would poison me.  Sheesh.  I simply wanted to know if actual availability (regardless of cost) was still a big hurdle in most US areas.  

 

[SKL]

Depending on the culture, in many places globally - and certainly where I live - most people eat more than they need.  (Of course there are exceptions, obviously, don't jump on me for saying "most people.")  For those people, it would be do-able to change *some* (possibly all) of their diet to organic if they had a good reason to.  Where I live, which is a pretty average US location, the cost of eating a healthy amount of all-organic food would be approximately the same as eating an "average diet."  Also, where I live, availability is pretty good, even in urban areas.

There are also some ways to subsidize if you have a medical need to eat a certain way.  Unfortunately the cost of identifying a medical need may not be zero, depending on many factors.  For me the cost of proving medical need would be much more than the cost of just buying an all-organic diet or whatever other change seemed worth a try.

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I think I must have missed something then - are you saying people might not realize that stuff is also organic certified because it isn't separated out?

I am saying that I used the term “eating organic “ as shorthand for “eating organic fruits and vegetables “ because that is what I think of first when I think of the term. That may be partly because the “dirty dozen “ (which are the only ones I can afford to sometimes buy in their organic form) are all fruits and veggies (if I remember correctly). I might be the only one to have ever done this but I don’t think so. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

As an interesting to me aside, I just discovered that if I keep every single receipt, that I can deduct my gluten free food from our taxes as a medical expense because of the celiac diagnosis. The problem though is that all our expenses must total more than 10 percent of your AGI. I wonder if you could do that with organic food if you had a specific diagnosis to back it up?  

[SKL]

13 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

As an interesting to me aside, I just discovered that if I keep every single receipt, that I can deduct my gluten free food from our taxes as a medical expense because of the celiac diagnosis. The problem though is that all our expenses must total more than 10 percent of your AGI. I wonder if you could do that with organic food if you had a specific diagnosis to back it up?  

I know a guy who itemizes orange juice because he would probably die without it (diabetes).

Reaching the 7.5% of AGI works for some people - you can include the cost of health insurance, mileage, and a number of other things.  But most people I know do not qualify or if they do, it's a very small benefit.

[LucyStoner]

36 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

As an interesting to me aside, I just discovered that if I keep every single receipt, that I can deduct my gluten free food from our taxes as a medical expense because of the celiac diagnosis. The problem though is that all our expenses must total more than 10 percent of your AGI. I wonder if you could do that with organic food if you had a specific diagnosis to back it up?  

 

It’s a little trickier than that.  It’s considered a health deduction.  It’s not all your health expenses that are deductible, it’s the amount beyond 7.5% (this tax year and last) or 10% of AGI (2019 and onwards) that are deductible.  

To make the math easy, we will time travel to 2019 (or back a few years before it was lowered to 7.5%)  So then, if someone's AGI is $50,000 in 2019 and they have $8,000 a year in medical expenses, it’s not $8k that’s deductible, it’s $3k ($8k-10% of AGI).  

Also, as I understand it the cost of gluten free products isn’t considered deductible for people with a medical diagnosis that requires them to be gluten free, the *cost difference* between non-gluten free and gluten free is considered a medical expense.  So if a loaf of bread if $3 but a comparably sized gluten free option is $5, the $2 is a medical expense. 

[Katy]

21 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

It’s a little trickier than that.  It’s considered a health deduction.  It’s not all your health expenses that are deductible, it’s the amount beyond 7.5% (this tax year and last) or 10% of AGI (2019 and onwards) that are deductible.  

To make the math easy, we will time travel to 2019 (or back a few years before it was lowered to 7.5%)  So then, if someone's AGI is $50,000 in 2019 and they have $8,000 a year in medical expenses, it’s not $8k that’s deductible, it’s $3k ($8k-10% of AGI).  

Also, as I understand it the cost of gluten free products isn’t considered deductible for people with a medical diagnosis that requires them to be gluten free, the *cost difference* between non-gluten free and gluten free is considered a medical expense.  So if a loaf of bread if $3 but a comparably sized gluten free option is $5, the $2 is a medical expense. 

 

Not to mention the change in the standard deduction means it's unlikely you'll meet the criteria to deduct anything unless you live in a very expensive area (mortgage) and run your own business.

Benn gluten free for more than a decade.  The CPA said I should forget about it. Especially as Aldi & Walmart started carrying gluten free items at reasonable prices.

[Jean in Newcastle]

23 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

It’s a little trickier than that.  It’s considered a health deduction.  It’s not all your health expenses that are deductible, it’s the amount beyond 7.5% (this tax year and last) or 10% of AGI (2019 and onwards) that are deductible.  

To make the math easy, we will time travel to 2019 (or back a few years before it was lowered to 7.5%)  So then, if someone's AGI is $50,000 in 2019 and they have $8,000 a year in medical expenses, it’s not $8k that’s deductible, it’s $3k ($8k-10% of AGI).  

Also, as I understand it the cost of gluten free products isn’t considered deductible for people with a medical diagnosis that requires them to be gluten free, the *cost difference* between non-gluten free and gluten free is considered a medical expense.  So if a loaf of bread if $3 but a comparably sized gluten free option is $5, the $2 is a medical expense. 

Interesting. The cost difference explanation was not what was given at our Celiac support group. I need to check into that and notify them if they are giving out incorrect information. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

 

Not to mention the change in the standard deduction means it's unlikely you'll meet the criteria to deduct anything unless you live in a very expensive area (mortgage) and run your own business.

Benn gluten free for more than a decade.  The CPA said I should forget about it. Especially as Aldi & Walmart started carrying gluten free items at reasonable prices.

Oh I doubt we would be able to benefit from it so I wasn’t planning to do what sounds like a PITA. 

[poppy]

23 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Although on sunscreen and melanoma the jury is still out

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4402823/#!po=39.7959

this is an overview of the studies from a reliable source and it's all pretty inconclusive.  Certainly the protective ability of sunscreen isn't as definite as we were all sold it as kids.

we tend to go for physical barriers when we can (long sleeved shirts, hats, rash vests etc) and use sunscreen when there's no other work around.

 

 

Yeah no, the jury isn't out.  That study isn't controlled, doesn't cover broad spectrum sunscreens etc etc.   I'm not saying we have all the answers but that 2015 article doesn't tip the scales into "it's  a complete mystery!"  The plurality of the evidence is that sunscreen is useful. Along with avoiding peak hours, sleeves etc and every other bit of advice that is common sense.

 

I have noticed that Australians are very skeptical about sunscreens.  I'm not trying to get into a debate. Just saying I am unconvinced, personally.

 

[Ausmumof3]

48 minutes ago, poppy said:

 

Yeah no, the jury isn't out.  That study isn't controlled, doesn't cover broad spectrum sunscreens etc etc.   I'm not saying we have all the answers but that 2015 article doesn't tip the scales into "it's  a complete mystery!"  The plurality of the evidence is that sunscreen is useful. Along with avoiding peak hours, sleeves etc and every other bit of advice that is common sense.

 

I have noticed that Australians are very skeptical about sunscreens.  I'm not trying to get into a debate. Just saying I am unconvinced, personally.

 

That wasn't a single study is was a review of all or most of the studies done so far.  Article was from the government health thing and stated that current research doesn't prove that sunscreen increases risk of melanoma and also that there isn't evidence that it reduces the risk either. Something like five studies showed an increased risk some showed no change and some showed a reduced risk.  It does show that some forms of lesions are reduced and obviously the short term pain of sunburn is prevented.  Did you read the whole article.

i have no idea how my nationality comes into it.  Most Australians I know diligently slip slip slap.

The science currently doesn't provide enough evidence that sunscreen prevents the most lethal skin cancer in the world.  On that basis I choose to use a physical barrier whenever possible and only rely on sunscreen when I can't use other preventative methods.  My aunt died of melanoma.  It's not something I'm playing fast and loose with.

[Lady Florida.]

I'd think they are deluding themselves.

[LucyStoner]

9 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Interesting. The cost difference explanation was not what was given at our Celiac support group. I need to check into that and notify them if they are giving out incorrect information. 

 

https://celiac.org/celiac-disease/resources/government-benefits/tax-deductions-for-celiac-disease/

they also chose bread as their example cut and pasted below, I swear I didn’t crib them, lol:

You may deduct the cost of gluten-free (GF) food that is in EXCESS of the cost of the gluten containing food that you are replacing. For example, if a loaf of gluten-free bread costs $5.00 and a comparable loaf of gluten containing bread costs $2.50, you may include in your medical expenses the excess cost of $2.50.
Read more at https://celiac.org/celiac-disease/resources/government-benefits/tax-deductions-for-celiac-disease/#yv2u6B5pbOlKUskf.99

I have to say the bookkeeping for that sounds like a frigging nightmare.  It would be more reasonable to offer a simplified rule of thumb per person.  It might be easier to access via an HSA.  

 

 

[poppy]

13 hours ago, StellaM said:

OMG Aussies aren't sceptical about sunscreens at all! Slip, slop, slap - it's like the holy trinity of sun protection, drummed into you from kindy.

 

 

HA! I am in a facebook group full of skeptical Australians but it's a little fringy..... I don't know any Australians IRL and I extrapolated from too small a data set.   I never heard slip slop slap, maybe the culture of high awareness makes the anti- folks feel more defensive  and outspoken. That's often how it works.

Anyway thanks for the re-education, I totally do believe you two.

[Pen]

On 6/7/2018 at 4:17 PM, Ausmumof3 said:

Yep I understand.  What I would assume was more likely was a rare allergy to one pesticide like this

https://globalnews.ca/news/1543251/can-pesticides-trigger-allergic-reactions-they-did-in-a-rare-canadian-case/

but because its impossible to know which conventional foods are sprayed or treated you would have to avoid all unless you could somehow talk to the farmer.  Because at this point we don't need have labelling for what sprays are used.  Maybe that's the future - labelling of sprays and treatments in the same way we use ingredients labels.

of course that's a rare event but I guess it's just a caution against assuming someone who eats all organic because of allergies is making it up.

 

Please don’t quote this as I will come back and delete it for privacy reasons. In one situation I know personally the gmoreport.com/articles/debunking-alternate-facts-pesticides-organic/

Due to this thread I have now come to realize that WIC cards can no longer be used for as much organic food as used to be the case in my current USA state, and that this differs state to state with some, maybe most perhaps, apparently not allowing it at all. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Pen
For privacy

[Pen]

Ps I don’t know why some of above thread came out huge type I wasn’t trying to emphasis on that part. 

 

Also I got a notification that someone had quoted me and came back to look for that but could not find it— guess I still cannot quite manage the new WTM forums well. 

[Ausmumof3]

Yep.  I have a relative who worked in ag and landscaping with a form of cancer that's increasingly being linked to round up.  I know of another family where two out of six kids have the same kind of cancer.  I think the real danger of conventional produce is less to the consumers and more to those working in production.

 

[Ausmumof3]

Just now, StellaM said:

Isn't Parkinson's linked to some forms of pesticide ? Farmers have a higher incidence of the disease ?

Yes to the bolded.

I hadn't heard that about Parkinson's.  I'll have to look into it when I have more time.

[kitten18]

7 hours ago, StellaM said:

Isn't Parkinson's linked to some forms of pesticide ? Farmers have a higher incidence of the disease ?

Yes to the bolded.

I’ve read some speculation that the parkinson’s link could be from the vibration of driving tractors for many years. 

[ktgrok]

I know years ago I read that there were two different chemicals, I think pesticides but could have been fertilizers or something, that each were tested and found safe on their own. One could cross the blood/brain barrier but didn't cause harm. The other one would be dangerous in the brain, but couldn't cross the blood brain barrier. But in practice they were often used together and when combined they could both cross the blood brain barrier AND cause harm. But no one every tested them together, in a real world type way. And those that used both had parkinson like symptoms, although technically it wasn't actually the same disease. 

[Carol in Cal.]

4 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I know years ago I read that there were two different chemicals, I think pesticides but could have been fertilizers or something, that each were tested and found safe on their own. One could cross the blood/brain barrier but didn't cause harm. The other one would be dangerous in the brain, but couldn't cross the blood brain barrier. But in practice they were often used together and when combined they could both cross the blood brain barrier AND cause harm. But no one every tested them together, in a real world type way. And those that used both had parkinson like symptoms, although technically it wasn't actually the same disease. 

That's basically the concept behind the DMSO craze.

You'd put an anti-inflammatory like aspirin cream on your skin, and the DMSO would carry it through the skin barrier.  I always thought that was kind of scary; as in, what ELSE is on your skin that your skin is protecting you from?  Ingredients in soaps?  Lotions?  Household chemicals?  What?  But it was very popular for a while because it enabled chronic pain patients to avoid having to digest their painkillers.