In general, what do you think b&m schools reward? Middle school / High school

[SKL]

Just thinking ... one of my kids has a much harder time with learning and yet generally does as well or better (grade-wise) than the other kid who is a very apt learner.  (Both are in the same class.)  So, what are they rewarding in schools?  I just got their TerraNova results back and there were no big surprises - one kid was significantly ahead of the other across the board.  Consistent strong percentiles.  Teachers say she does her work and she isn't a discipline problem.  So it just seems odd that she isn't a better student grade-wise.

I'm not looking for specific advice on my kids, but just a general discussion of what they reward.  I know some will say "compliance" etc, but I was hoping for something a little more specific than that.

[Bambam]

Well, for my kids, I think the answer would be more the effort the individual child is making. I have one who is naturally good at most things. She consistently would outlay the minimum effort to get a decent grade but not extend herself *unless* the subject or assignment was interesting and challenging to her.  So, could it be that one child isn't putting forth her best effort because she isn't interested/challenged?  In other words, the motivation isn't external but internal? 

[AmandaVT]

I wonder if your DD that has an easier time learning is bored and doing just enough to get by? I know that's exactly what I did in middle and high school. And I know a fair number of other people who say the same. If there's no challenge, kids get bored and focus on other things aside from school. I played music and spent much more time with my instruments than my school work because it was a challenge and kept me interested.

[almondbutterandjelly]

The ability to do tedious tasks.  And compliance.  :)

 

[EKS]

Intelligence, consciousness, and conformity.

[Scarlett]

Well you know what they say....C students are running the world and A students are working for them.  

 

[cuckoomamma]

Extroverts and high social iq

[Farrar]

Agreed with all the stuff listed so far.

Once you get to middle school, executive functioning is another huge thing being rewarded. A lot of the homework is so little, so just being organized enough to get it all done - the getting it done isn't so bad, but the organized enough to remember half a dozen little things every day.

Giving a carp is high on the list. Sort of goes with compliance - but also, it's like, you have to care enough to do the assignments in the first place. You have to buy into the idea that it's worth doing. If you don't - if you think it's pretty empty, then you're not going to get much. I can't tell you how many teachers I had in high school who were offended that I didn't care about their classes. I had a French teacher who told me that she was downgrading me on the project that was worth most of my grade, not because it wasn't good enough, but because I obviously didn't care enough about the class. So even doing the work wasn't enough. I had to jump through some "I love this!" hoop.

Neatness is rewarded. Not asking too many questions. Being "easy." Being like the teacher - so kids who fit the teacher's personality get rewarded typically - and it can vary from class to class.

There are also issues around gender and race - white kids get a bigger pass on disruptive behavior than black and Latinx kids according to studies (though I've not seen them for older grades, but I assume the trend continues), so that's a reward in a sense. Girls are rewarded in some ways - they're more likely to be focused and have small motor skills that teachers like at a slightly younger age. Boys are rewarded in others - I've seen things about how boys asking questions is a positive while girls it isn't.

[Katy]

I know you didn't want to get specific but it's possible both kids learn at about the same pace, but one is a better test taker than the other.  I consistently learn advanced math concepts much slower than, say, my husband who's an engineer. But I'm the one who tested off the scale and was a few years ahead in math in school as a result.  Some kids are motivated by pressure and a timer and other kids are intimidated or don't have the attention span to do well or are not the type to care.

I don't think schools have any monopoly on motivating kids.  Most kids aren't motivated to do better than a B average at a brick and mortar school.

If you're noticing one kid does better on tests you might look into trying the pomodoro method.  You set a timer for 25 minutes, have them work as hard/fast as they can, and then take a 5 minute (timed) break.  For the kid that takes after me and who would dawdle through math lessons for 3 hours we find now they get it all done with greater accuracy in two pomodoros. When the two are up, math is done for the day. Frequently TWO lessons are done in that time. The same kid does much better on everything with the timer.  It helps.

[Bluegoat]

I tend to agree with the above things in some ways, but OTOH, in some cases I think the opposite is also true.  So - I think maybe it varies depending on the kid.

One kid who picks things up easily might be rewarded just for being bright.  Another kid who has to work to do well is being rewarded for working hard.  Probably the first kid is actually the loser in that.

I do think compliance, caring about things, is rewarded.  There are a lot of reasons kids might do that - they might want the validation, it helps them to their goals, parental pressure, they care about the work itself.  It helps if the kids can see the bigger picture and where school fits into their goals, which is often developmental.

I don't think all of those things around compliance, or tedious work, etc, are negative necessarily.  I feel that it's more the deficits, like tedium without anything inspiring, that causes problems.

[SKL]

Interesting comment about seeing where school fits in their goals ... being goal oriented.  I have to say I don't think my advanced kid seems to view school a a step to anything in particular.  She also is not much of a planner, while the other kid is.

I wonder what I could do to make school seem relevant.  To be honest, a lot of it doesn't seem very relevant to me.  :P  I mean is this a reflexive or intensive pronoun - who cares!?  The randomness of how they decide what to cover next is also beyond me.  Spend 2 weeks cramming about Russia.  Now let's spend 2 weeks cramming about Turkey and Israel.  Erosion and Deposition - now that's exciting!  Histograms last week, supplementary angles this week.  I dunno.  I guess it's a good thing I am not a middle school teacher.

[Frances]

Does the advanced kid put strong effort, going above and beyond, when she is interested in something either in school or outside of school? I think generally some people are just more driven and goal oriented than others. Some want to do well at everything they attempt, others only push themselves when they are truly interested. And still others are fine with adequate effort in most areas.

[Farrar]

I don't think there's a magic way to make a smart kid care more about school if they don't already. Seeing through the school nonsense is a product of intelligence. Kids who feel that way (and I totally was one) will mostly do the work when it suits their goals or when they're otherwise engaged by it. But when it's not engaging to them and getting a C suits their goals fine, then entreating them to understand how important those things will be later or whatever isn't going to do it. You might be able to get somewhere with bribes, but then you have to decide how okay you are with paying (either in money or rewards) kids for their grades and their ability to fake it.

[Bluegoat]

I also paid little attention to things I didn't care about at school.  It really ticked me off that there was so much that was stupid or seemed disconnected.

In some cases, I later regretted it, and saw the point of certain things, so it can be worthwhile I think to talk about it  - maybe they won't buy in, but at least they may have more information.  

I think one problem in my schooling was that things were watered down enough that they really seemed kind of pointless.  When I went to university, the very next year, some of the same things, like serious analysis of literature, suddenly seemed to have some real depth or purpose behind them.  It isn't just people making stuff up. That kind of randomness of a bit of this and a bit of that in the curriculum doesn't help.  

[Rachel]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

I don't think there's a magic way to make a smart kid care more about school if they don't already. Seeing through the school nonsense is a product of intelligence. Kids who feel that way (and I totally was one) will mostly do the work when it suits their goals or when they're otherwise engaged by it. But when it's not engaging to them and getting a C suits their goals fine, then entreating them to understand how important those things will be later or whatever isn't going to do it. You might be able to get somewhere with bribes, but then you have to decide how okay you are with paying (either in money or rewards) kids for their grades and their ability to fake it.

This is my husband and my brother. They both did mediocre in high school and first couple years of college. They both just wouldn’t do school work they deemed busy work or stupid. When it came time for the interesting classes in college the last couple years, they excelled.

[Supertechmom]

Compliance, "I love this" and  "This is great" attitude, easy to teach, the right amount of parental involvement with the proper amount of money, causes no issues, totally on board with the program. 

[SanDiegoMom]

Middle school for the most part (as my dd experienced it) lost a lot of the excitement of learning for learning's sake, stepped up all the executive functioning skills (constant homework, projects, tests) but kept all the learning relatively shallow so as to focus on the study skills and task completion. My dd had poor executive functioning and no reason to improve them as the work was so incredibly uninteresting.  So she would have had a big variety in how teachers viewed her - her 8th grade chemistry teacher almost failed her, she scraped by all three years with C's in math, but her output in history and Civics (and creative writing when they covered it) was always phenomenal. But consistent she was not -- it had to be something that was interesting or else she just tuned out.  She had teachers who loved her and teachers who were extremely annoyed and frustrated by her.  Her friends were more of the textbook compliant kids.  They got all the awards, and had the highest GPAs. 

[catz]

Haven’t read responses but hoop jumping.   

[SparklyUnicorn]

Compliance. 

I know you said you didn't want to hear that, but it's really a big one. 

Even gifted programming seems to cater more to the diligent child than necessarily a child who is bright, but maybe not a compliant student.  Plenty of smart kids hate school and aren't good students. 

Nothing wrong with rewarding compliance.  I understand that.