Larry Nassar

[Spy Car]

Yeah, it's one thing to say "gosh, I wish she didn't say those words" and another to say she should be unbenched.

 

If her spoken outrage makes her deserve to lose her position, then probably most of the people in the USA should be unemployed, because on balance they suck worse than this judge.

 

Meanwhile people who had the power to protect these girls and didn't are still employed.

 

Again - never thought I'd accuse Spy Car of sexism, but this doesn't feel right at all.

 

Sexism? Give me a break. I'd have the same opinion about the outrageousness of the comments in favor of Nasser being killed or raped in prison is the words came out of the mouth of a male judge.  

 

It is sexist to hold female judges to different standards.

 

Good grief.

 

Bill

[SKL]

Many judges use the sentencing, in part, to try to drive home to the defendant how awful his actions were.  One way to do that is to make him think how it would feel if it were done to him.  That's what I view this judge as doing and I don't think it's unusual.  I think it isn't super white-wig dignified, but the US does not require that level of formality of judges.

[Sneezyone]

I doubt that many of the victims had the vocabulary to describe what happened to them, and the doctor gaslit them pretty hard.

 

The downside risk of coming forward was considerable, and it's certain that that was wellknown.

 

I don't think the parents knew, mostly.  I don't think the other coaches knew, mostly.  It is very clear, though, that the relatively few complaints were completely mishandled, and not purely out of gaslighting either; but rather out of fear, ambition, and the belief that the accusations would not stick so they could be safely swept under the rug--all of which are disgusting, unacceptable, and quite human, which is cautionary.

 

THIS.

 

I think this is a very big misconception about girls competing at that level. Parents aren't generally forcing them to be in the gym 40hrs a week. The girls, themselves, want to do gym. The need for strong, moral adult leadership/coaching is especially acute because these girls are away from their families most of the time. As a L7, DD was in the gym 12 hrs a week and that was on the low end. Families will sacrifice so much and go much further than might be healthy in pursuit of their kid's goals. I really don't think most of them knew. At the lower levels (like in lots of youth sports these days) you may see parents in that pushing role but at the tippy top where this man had free reign, that's not really the case.

 

In this case, it seems it was primarily coaches and administrators that cared more about the wins than the methods or the girls and so they justified and rationalized what they heard. Clearly, they never shared any of these allegations with other parents. The buck stopped with them.

 

I think the element of this case makes the trauma of this case sooo much worse is that girls we required to go along with him in order to have a shot at reaching their goals/staying on their teams. How sick is that? 

[Spy Car]

She didn't suggest they should. She said IF the law was different she MIGHT like to sentence him to exactly what he had done to others. That isn't a threat it is a wish. Wishes can't be unconstitutional.

 

Actually, she said she *would* allow him to be multiply raped if not constrained by the Constitution, in addition to saying she'd given him a death sentence.

 

These are not behaviors we should accept from a judge in a civilized society.

 

Nasser's gross criminality is not an excuse for a judge to vent his or her darkest thoughts in an open courtroom.

 

Bill

[Sneezyone]

People don't have that kind of freedom of speech when they are representing the government. (They don't even in private employment.)

 

The Ambassador to Wherever can't just say to the PM of some country "you guys are just a bunch of silly hicks" and expect it to be ok because of free speech, even if it's true.  Roles, especially important public ones, do come with constraints and requirements.

 

I don't want to violate board rules but the irony here is thick.

[Spy Car]

And yet as we have stated it did not change the sentencing. Her job was to sentence him. In accordance with the law. She did. You want to police her thoughts and words. Which kind of sounds like we are talking about a freedom of speech issue now. Would you also fire any prosecutor or police person who says Something similar?

 

But her words DID change the sentencing. She said she'd given him a "death sentence." No one was at a loss about what she was saying (despite the rationalizations and excuse making. Particularly, when she followed it up by saying she would allow him to be multiply raped--just like his victims--if she wasn't constrained by the Constitution.

 

Such utterances are unacceptable from any sitting judge.

 

And yes, judges should be held accountable for their words from the bench. Absolutely.

 

Bill

[Lostinabook]

I watched live from the beginning of Rachael Denhollander's statement to the end of the judge's statement, & I didn't remember her saying that she wished that she could give Nassar an unconstitutional punishment, so I found and searched a transcript of her remarks. She didn't. On January 16 she said, "Our Constitution does not allow for cruel and unusual punishment. If it did, I have to say, I might allow what he did to all of these beautiful souls -- these young women in their childhood -- I would allow someone or many people to do to him what he did to others", but I thought she was directly responding to a victim impact statement? I could be wrong about that though--I couldn't find a source that placed the statement specifically. I still don't get the outrage. If she said that during a trial, then that would be inappropriate, but he'd already entered a guilty plea and as far as I can tell, it's not weird for judges to get very personal during sentencing.

 

I find it bizarre that people (in general, not specifically this forum) are griping about a judge having too much empathy for the victims, having too much of a connection with them, being too supportive of their pain, providing them with too much encouragement as each woman ended her statement. We live in a country where judges will disregard abused/assaulted women/children during sentencing, where judges will victim blame during sentencing, where judges will coddle the convicted perpetrator during sentencing. 

[ktgrok]

What in the world are you talking about? Nasser's behavior shocks the conscious and anyone who abetted him should face the consequences.

 

The revulsion and angry at his acts isn't an excuse to behave as this judge did. It only compounds the shame.

 

A judge in a case like this has a duty to act with dignity. She failed.

 

Bill  

 

I'm talking about your own post, where you said the reason you were speaking up about the judge was because you couldn't be silent about something outrageous. Her remarks were upsetting so you HAD to speak up. 

 

And yet you said nothing about Nasser, or the coaches, or anyone else. Just the judge. 

 

Shows your priorities, is what I'm saying. 

[SKL]

OK ... so who should do the job of firing the judge?  Anyone think it's going to be a politically expedient move?  :P

[ktgrok]

 

 

A judge in a case like this has a duty to act with dignity. She failed.

 

Bill  

 

And...we get to the REAL crime, folks. A lady wasn't being dignified.

[SKL]

Gotta tell ya, it would be hard to act with dignity if I was presiding over a case where the guilty party has done so much to so many young girls, AND he tries to play the victim.  He's trying to be a pathetic figure in all this.  It would be hard to not throw something at him.  Again, judges are human.  She has 5 kids.  She's angry!

Edited January 26, 2018 by SKL

[ktgrok]

But her words DID change the sentencing. She said she'd given him a "death sentence." No one was at a loss about what she was saying (despite the rationalizations and excuse making. Particularly, when she followed it up by saying she would allow him to be multiply raped--just like his victims--if she wasn't constrained by the Constitution.

 

Such utterances are unacceptable from any sitting judge.

 

And yes, judges should be held accountable for their words from the bench. Absolutely.

 

Bill

 

No, they didn't. Everyone who has spoken about it has said her sentencing fits within the guidelines for such a case. 

 

And the death sentence means that he will die in prison. Everyone gets that but you. Apparently the entire rest of the board can't understand english, but you do? The death sentence part came where she was talking about how long he'd spend in jail. Between the 60 years he already had and what she gave him, he will die in jail. That's not vigilante justice. That's not encouraging someone to shiv him or whatever. That's acknowledging he won't ever walk out of jail a free man, he will die there.

 

But hey, keep harping on that lady who said that she was going to adhere to the law despite her own baser feelings. Cause gee whiz, judges following the law even when they don't want to, (the whole point of law), that's outrageous. 

 

That other stuff...whatever, no need to discuss it. Let's talk about the judge. Please. 

[Aura]

A list of people that have so far been fired or resigned over this:

 

A look at the fallout from sports doctor scandal

 

Kathy Klages apparently resigned last year.

 

Some of them apparently have "stepped down" from positions but remain on payroll. Unacceptable.

[Lostinabook]

And The Lansing State Journal has just posted an article with the statement Amanda Thomashow (she reported the assault but was informed that she simply didn't get the difference between assault and treatment) received from MSU vs. the one that MSU circulated internally. Ugh.

[Sneezyone]

A list of people that have so far been fired or resigned over this:

 

A look at the fallout from sports doctor scandal

 

Kathy Klages apparently resigned last year.

 

Some of them apparently have "stepped down" from positions but remain on payroll. Unacceptable.

 

Oh, I think this is just the beginning. The civil suits will be huge. I also don't think MSU's sovereign immunity argument will hold much sway when it's clear so many people both knew about these credible allegations and acted with depraved indifference/gross negligence in failing to report and/or investigate.

[Spy Car]

I'm talking about your own post, where you said the reason you were speaking up about the judge was because you couldn't be silent about something outrageous. Her remarks were upsetting so you HAD to speak up. 

 

And yet you said nothing about Nasser, or the coaches, or anyone else. Just the judge. 

 

Shows your priorities, is what I'm saying. 

 

Ridiculous and untrue.

 

Nasser's crimes are shocking and those who abetted him should be accountable.

 

None of that excuses the actions of the judge. A judge who was getting high praise in this thread.

 

This judge should be censured. She failed in her duty to personify the best of our legal system. Nasser's gross criminality is not a valid excuse for this sort of judicial misconduct. 

 

She should resign from an office she's proven to be unqualified to hold.

 

This society could use more accountability, then maybe we'd see far fewer of these sort of outrages. I think too many people look past what they want to look past and who will rationalize and make excuses for things they know are wrong

 

And too many who stay quiet when they know speaking the truth will require paying a price.

 

It is a problem with the culture that we need to change IMO.

 

Bill

[Corraleno]

The Ambassador to Wherever can't just say to the PM of some country "you guys are just a bunch of silly hicks" and expect it to be ok because of free speech, even if it's true.  Roles, especially important public ones, do come with constraints and requirements.

This analogy is so hilariously off it could be mistaken it for sarcasm. I gather you are unaware of the racist statements and outright lies from the current US Ambassaor to the Netherlands?

[Spy Car]

You obviously need more man'splaining.  You silly woman.  Just sit back and let the man explain it all to your feeble little mind.  Eventually you will come to reason.

 

Gender-based attacks really are despicable.

 

Bill

[ktgrok]

Ridiculous and untrue.

 

 

Which part of my statement was untrue?

 

That you personally stated that you wouldn't be silent about outrageous behavior?

 

That you WERE silent about Nasser and all that enabled him, until we specifically called you out on it?

 

Cause pretty sure both of those are true statements. Which means EITHER you didn't find his behavior as outrageous as hers, OR you can be silent about outrageous behavior, but choose to focus on hers rather than his....which leads to the question of WHY hers is more worthy of your censure than the others. 

 

You say it's not about gender. Fine. Explain it then. Why did her words upset you enough to jump into this thread, but his actions, and those of others, did NOT upset you enough to comment on them? 

[Guest]

Damn, Bill, you are disappointed in us?!? Are we supposed to feel remorse for behaving in such an unladylike fashion and disappointing you?

I generally like you, Bill, but you’ve gone off the rails here. The judge should resign?!? WTH??

Edited January 26, 2018 by Moxie

[Spy Car]

No, they didn't. Everyone who has spoken about it has said her sentencing fits within the guidelines for such a case. 

 

And the death sentence means that he will die in prison. Everyone gets that but you. Apparently the entire rest of the board can't understand english, but you do? The death sentence part came where she was talking about how long he'd spend in jail. Between the 60 years he already had and what she gave him, he will die in jail. That's not vigilante justice. That's not encouraging someone to shiv him or whatever. That's acknowledging he won't ever walk out of jail a free man, he will die there.

 

But hey, keep harping on that lady who said that she was going to adhere to the law despite her own baser feelings. Cause gee whiz, judges following the law even when they don't want to, (the whole point of law), that's outrageous. 

 

That other stuff...whatever, no need to discuss it. Let's talk about the judge. Please. 

 

The death penalty means "he will die in prison?" LOL.

 

That's not what the death penalty means, seriously. That's what's called "life in prison."

 

If you are going to reach for an excuse for the inexcusable (and why?), you've got to do better than this.

 

A judge full well knows the difference between "life-in-prison" and the death penalty (as does any educated 5h Grader).

 

Between this wink, any saying that were it up to her she'd allow his on-going brutalization behind bars so he gets to endure the sort of sexual assaults what he committed on others is a pretty clear signal to what she hopes will happen behind bars.

 

And will be understood by inmates as such

 

Bill

[Guest]

The death penalty means "he will die in prison?" LOL.

 

That's not what the death penalty means, seriously. That's what's called "life in prison."

 

If you are going to reach for an excuse for the inexcusable (and why?), you've got to do better than this.

 

A judge full well knows the difference between "life-in-prison" and the death penalty (as does any educated 5h Grader).

 

Between this wink, any saying that were it up to her she'd allow his on-going brutalization behind bars so he gets to endure the sort of sexual assaults what he committed on others is a pretty clear signal to what she hopes will happen behind bars.

 

And will be understood by inmates as such

 

Bill

Are you being serious? She was clearly referring to the 175 year prison sentence.

[gardenmom5]

I ran out of likes 30+ posts ago - so skl, kinsa, ktgrok,etc.  - consider yourselves liked.

 

 

Yes, blind faith in institutions is dangerous.

 

And there is another danger too--the danger of cynicism and of restraint of friendliness.

 

I used to kneel down eye to eye with little kids and smile at them and talk if we were in line at a grocery store.  Now I am afraid to be friendly with children for fear of looking like a groomer.  I used to pooh pooh that impulse when I heard it 'around' and now I share it.  How many others are doing the same?  

 

Will we end up with a society where it is hard to be kind without raising hackles?  That is not the chief problem here, obviously, but it's fallout from the *many* horrendous issues like those in this article.

 

it's a fine line.   dh works from home- and will have clients come here when it works.  (then he doens't have to drive somewhere, and can actually see more clients.).

 

he found some younger women (not all, just a few) would regularly refuse and always wanted to meet him somewhere public.  he really was completely clueless as to why.  I had to explain it to him.  (he's a father of daughters)

 

 

And also - I think it's a distraction from the issue of who needs to be disciplined next.

 

Sadly, I am starting to think that may be the point.

 

 

This - their whine of the judge wasn't "being lady like"  (uh, yes, she was.  she wasn't being submissive and subservient to a male (especially a criminal creepy male)  - I think that's an objection.  tough.  I think there are quarters that claim to believe in "equality" - but in reality, they don't.  look at the amount of s3xual harassment being exposed in the media.   those male perps don't believe in equality or they wouldn't treat women like meat, no matter what they say they believe.)

 

I watched live from the beginning of Rachael Denhollander's statement to the end of the judge's statement, & I didn't remember her saying that she wished that she could give Nassar an unconstitutional punishment, so I found and searched a transcript of her remarks. She didn't. On January 16 she said, "Our Constitution does not allow for cruel and unusual punishment. If it did, I have to say, I might allow what he did to all of these beautiful souls -- these young women in their childhood -- I would allow someone or many people to do to him what he did to others", but I thought she was directly responding to a victim impact statement? I could be wrong about that though--I couldn't find a source that placed the statement specifically. I still don't get the outrage. If she said that during a trial, then that would be inappropriate, but he'd already entered a guilty plea and as far as I can tell, it's not weird for judges to get very personal during sentencing.

 

I find it bizarre that people (in general, not specifically this forum) are griping about a judge having too much empathy for the victims, having too much of a connection with them, being too supportive of their pain, providing them with too much encouragement as each woman ended her statement. We live in a country where judges will disregard abused/assaulted women/children during sentencing, where judges will victim blame during sentencing, where judges will coddle the convicted perpetrator during sentencing. 

 

and on the other end - there are people excoriating the male judge in the brock turner case for having no empathy for the victim - and way way too much empathy for the r@pist.  (I hope the voters throw him off the bench.)

 

eta: I grew up with a manipulative witch of a grandmother.  one lesson I learned very very well - and has led to a type of cynicism.  actions speak louder than words.  I can hear what people say - but I watch what they do.  I can usually tell the difference between someone who is sincerely trying - but falls short because that's the nature of the human condition, and someone who wants to impress people - and then does what they want when they think no one is looking.

Edited January 26, 2018 by gardenmom5

[solascriptura]

I'm fully outraged by the actions of Larry Nasser.

 

That the days of men pressing unwanted advances on women, including sexual assault, being something that's swept under the rug are seemingly over fills me with a sense of hopefulness for a better future.

 

I'm 100% with the women who've had enough.

 

I have zero sympathies for Larry Nasser, or Havey Weinstein, or any man who brags about what he's forced women to endure. Those men deserve rebuke. No question.

 

What's not acceptable is for a judge to embrace vigilantism from the bench. Such expressions undermine the foundations of our civilization.

 

That Larry Nasser is a horrible horrible human being doesn't change what we should expect from our judges. 

 

Bill

 

I can see what you're saying, but as for myself, I've become pretty cynical of "our civilization."  The increasing depravity of "civilization" and people is become all too apparent to me.  Our "civilization" has failed and will continue to fail the weakest and most vulnerable of our society.   It's great that you think so highly of our justice system that this supposedly errant judge deserves to be disbarred according to your estimation. The way I see it, she carried out the law and merely voiced her opinion.  

 

On a slightly different train of thought... I cannot understand how lawyers can even defend a monster like him.  I honestly can't.  I had a friend in college that eventually went to become a criminal lawyer.  I asked him how he could even begin to defend a person that he clearly knew to be guilty (Nassar pleaded guilty).  He replied that it wasn't his job to even think about if the person was guilty or innocent.  It was merely his job to "make sure that the law was carried out" and to find any loophole to get the person free from punishment.  I never forgot that and you can figure out what happened to all of his romantic overtures towards me.  

[Spy Car]

Damn, Bill, you are disappointed in us?!? Are we supposed to feel remorse for behaving in such an unladylike fashion and disappointing you?

I generally like you, Bill, but you’ve gone off the rails here. The judge should resign?!? WTH??

 

Yes, judges who suggest the people sentenced in her court should justly face rape or murder in prison as the just course (were it not for that pesky Constitution) if unfit for the bench.

 

The mocking resort to sexism is unwarranted and offensive. 

 

Bill

[Guest]

I can see what you're saying, but as for myself, I've become pretty cynical of "our civilization." The increasing depravity of "civilization" and people is become all too apparent to me. Our "civilization" has failed and will continue to fail the weakest and most vulnerable of our society. It's great that you think so highly of our justice system that this supposedly errant judge deserves to be disbarred according to your estimation. The way I see it, she carried out the law and merely voiced her opinion.

 

On a slightly different train of thought... I cannot understand how lawyers can even defend a monster like him. I honestly can't. I had a friend in college that eventually went to become a criminal lawyer. I asked him how he could even begin to defend a person that he clearly knew to be guilty (Nassar pleaded guilty). He replied that it wasn't his job to even think about if the person was guilty or innocent. It was merely his job to "make sure that the law was carried out" and to find any loophole to get the person free from punishment. I never forgot that and you can figure out what happened to all of his romantic overtures towards me.

We need aggressive defenders to make police and investigators do their jobs well. They are an integral part of our justice system.

[Pam in CT]

re redirection from the primary issue

And also - I think it's a distraction from the issue of who needs to be disciplined next.

 

Sadly, I am starting to think that may be the point.

 

 

Indeed.  3 pages out of 6 on a thread about the victims, redirected to the words of the judge.  

 

Even if one *does* think the words of the judge were ill-advised (as it happens: I do), that seems.... disproportionate.  And intentional.

[ErinE]

And The Lansing State Journal has just posted an article with the statement Amanda Thomashow (she reported the assault but was informed that she simply didn't get the difference between assault and treatment) received from MSU vs. the one that MSU circulated internally. Ugh.

Thanks for posting the article. Interesting that they recognized the procedures needed to be changed. I wonder if they made any changes.

 

I read in one of the articles that they didn’t ask any doctors not affiliated with MSU whether Nassar’s actions were standard practice.

[ktgrok]

The death penalty means "he will die in prison?" LOL.

 

That's not what the death penalty means, seriously. That's what's called "life in prison."

 

If you are going to reach for an excuse for the inexcusable (and why?), you've got to do better than this.

 

A judge full well knows the difference between "life-in-prison" and the death penalty (as does any educated 5h Grader).

 

Between this wink, any saying that were it up to her she'd allow his on-going brutalization behind bars so he gets to endure the sort of sexual assaults what he committed on others is a pretty clear signal to what she hopes will happen behind bars.

 

And will be understood by inmates as such

 

Bill

 

Did you read the context? Because she explained it in context. That everyone else here gets it but you confuses me as to why you don't get it. Seriously, in context it made perfect sense. 

 

And the idea that inmates are waiting to hear what the judge wants them to do is laughable. 

[ktgrok]

Yes, judges who suggest the people sentenced in her court should justly face rape or murder in prison as the just course (were it not for that pesky Constitution) if unfit for the bench.

 

The mocking resort to sexism is unwarranted and offensive. 

 

Bill

 

Again that is the purpose of the rule of law. That our baser impulses are restrained by the law. This situation exemplifies that. She is free to have whatever opinion she wants, as long as she follows the law. 

 

Curious, if she just thought it, but didn't say it, should she still step down? Or is it that she was honest about it that bothers you?

[Spy Car]

I can see what you're saying, but as for myself, I've become pretty cynical of "our civilization."  The increasing depravity of "civilization" and people is become all too apparent to me.  Our "civilization" has failed and will continue to fail the weakest and most vulnerable of our society.   It's great that you think so highly of our justice system that this supposedly errant judge deserves to be disbarred according to your estimation. The way I see it, she carried out the law and merely voiced her opinion.  

 

On a slightly different train of thought... I cannot understand how lawyers can even defend a monster like him.  I honestly can't.  I had a friend in college that eventually went to become a criminal lawyer.  I asked him how he could even begin to defend a person that he clearly knew to be guilty (Nassar pleaded guilty).  He replied that it wasn't his job to even think about if the person was guilty or innocent.  It was merely his job to "make sure that the law was carried out" and to find any loophole to get the person free from punishment.  I never forgot that and you can figure out what happened to all of his romantic overtures towards me.  

 

Trust me, I'm not that sanguine about the state of our institutions.

 

Seems to me like we've got a pretty tenuous hold on civilization on many fronts.

 

This only makes the matter of judicial responsibility more critical.

 

I understand the thinking of the college friend who became a lawyer. He serves our system of justice when he defends a client regardless of guilt or innocence. Lawyers have a duty in this regard, just like judges do.

 

We ask people in these professions to put aside their passions, prejudices, and emotions and act in the spirit of the law.

 

It is a noble thing, actually. 

 

Bill

[ktgrok]

 

We ask people in these professions to put aside their passions, prejudices, and emotions and act in the spirit of the law.

 

It is a noble thing, actually. 

 

Bill

 

And that is EXACTLY what this judge did. She acted in the spirit of the law, despite her own passions and emotions. 

[Corraleno]

Does anyone actually believe that the judge's statements will somehow make Nassar more likely to be assaulted in prison? Like there are guys sitting in prison thinking "well, normally I have nothing against pedophiles and would never think of assaulting one, but after hearing what that judge said at Nassar's sentencing, I'm gonna rape that guy first change I get!" Pedophiles are considered the lowest of the low in prison; nothing the judge said is going to make his fellow prisoners consider him even lower than the lowest of the low, nor will it make him more likely to be assaulted.

But you know who should be unbenched, since he did allow his personal feelings about the case to determine the sentence for a rapist? Judge Aaron Persky, who thought that prison was way too harsh a punishment for a nice rich white boy (and fellow Stanford athlete), just for raping an unconscious woman behind a dumpster. He was a nice boy who made one little mistake, and so he got 3 months in county jail instead. He even used the victim's own statement against her, quoting the phrase "the damage is done" to bolster his belief that sending Brock to prison wouldn't really accomplish anything.

[Spy Car]

Did you read the context? Because she explained it in context. That everyone else here gets it but you confuses me as to why you don't get it. Seriously, in context it made perfect sense. 

 

And the idea that inmates are waiting to hear what the judge wants them to do is laughable. 

 

Yes, I read it in context. In context, she's making it clear that were she unconstrained she would have Larry Nasser suffer the same sort of assault that he perpetrated and that she's giving him a death sentence.

 

If you don't think her words will be seen like a "go-ahead" for inmates to kill or abuse this guy, then we read the situation very differently.

 

This is not how judges ought to behave. 

 

Bill 

[bolt.]

Never mind... conversation moved on while I was typing.

Edited January 26, 2018 by bolt.

[Spy Car]

Does anyone actually believe that the judge's statements will somehow make Nassar more likely to be assaulted in prison? Like there are guys sitting in prison thinking "well, normally I have nothing against pedophiles and would never think of assaulting one, but after hearing what that judge said at Nassar's sentencing, I'm gonna rape that guy first change I get!" Pedophiles are considered the lowest of the low in prison; nothing the judge said is going to make his fellow prisoners consider him even lower than the lowest of the low, nor will it make him more likely to be assaulted.

 

But you know who should be unbenched, since he did allow his personal feelings about the case to determine the sentence for a rapist? Judge Aaron Persky, who thought that prison was way too harsh a punishment for a nice rich white boy (and fellow Stanford athlete), just for raping an unconscious woman behind a dumpster. He was a nice boy who made one little mistake, and so he got 3 months in county jail instead. He even used the victim's own statement against her, quoting the phrase "the damage is done" to bolster his belief that sending Brock to prison wouldn't really accomplish anything.

 

Of course, it will make it more likely. The sentencing judge intimating that she's cool with it certainly doesn't improve his odds.

 

Any predistribution towards prison justice against pedophiles has just been given sanction under the color of authority of the presiding judge.

 

Bill

[Corraleno]

I read in one of the articles that they didn’t ask any doctors not affiliated with MSU whether Nassar’s actions were standard practice.

 

And some of those MSU doctors even admitted that they were close friends of Nassar. Plus the other doctors said that they generally performed the procedures in question "over the clothing" — which suggests that they were not told that vaginal penetration was part of Nassar's "treatment," since that's not something you can do over someone's clothing!

[Spy Car]

And that is EXACTLY what this judge did. She acted in the spirit of the law, despite her own passions and emotions. 

 

Not at all. She sullied the office by expressing her darkest thoughts in an open courtroom.

 

The spirit of the law doesn't include expressing support for prisoners taking revenge through sexual assault or murder.

 

Bill

[ErinE]

 

And some of those MSU doctors even admitted that they were close friends of Nassar. Plus the other doctors said that they generally performed the procedures in question "over the clothing" — which suggests that they were not told that vaginal penetration was part of Nassar's "treatment," since that's not something you can do over someone's clothing!

I suspect the same. I wonder if they were told who the doctor was and the full details of the procedure. That’s why he was cleared in 2014(?). Other doctors claimed his actions were within normal bounds.

[ktgrok]

Yes, I read it in context. In context, she's making it clear that were she unconstrained she would have Larry Nasser suffer the same sort of assault that he perpetrated and that she's giving him a death sentence.

 

If you don't think her words will be seen like a "go-ahead" for inmates to kill or abuse this guy, then we read the situation very differently.

 

This is not how judges ought to behave. 

 

Bill 

 

The death sentence part was separate, not part of the bit about wishing he got what he did to others. It was in the part about getting so many years. 

 

As for how it read, yes, you read it differently than EVERYONE ELSE in this thread. Chances you are the ONLY person with decent reading comprehension? Pretty low. 

[ktgrok]

Of course, it will make it more likely. The sentencing judge intimating that she's cool with it certainly doesn't improve his odds.

 

Any predistribution towards prison justice against pedophiles has just been given sanction under the color of authority of the presiding judge.

 

Bill

 

Ok, now I know you aren't serious. Because no one on this planet of sound mind thinks that inmates are waiting for permission from a judge to be mean to pedophiles. No one. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I suspect the same. I wonder if they were told who the doctor was and the full details of the procedure. That’s why he was cleared in 2014(?). Other doctors claimed his actions were within normal bounds.

Well, and how easy is it to flat out say the stuff he did?

I listened to that one long testimony, and every time she said 'penetrated' I was kind of in awe.  

How many kids would have been able to say that and stick to it?  Especially after being seriously gaslit and also while pretty much this guy was the 'good cop' of the organization?

[Corraleno]

Of course, it will make it more likely. The sentencing judge intimating that she's cool with it certainly doesn't improve his odds.

 

Any predistribution towards prison justice against pedophiles has just been given sanction under the color of authority of the presiding judge.

 

Bill

The idea that a single sentence uttered by a single judge, which prisoners are unlikely to even be aware of, is going to lead directly to Nassar's rape and murder, is just absurd. If the judge had somehow included a restriction that Nassar be kept in the general population, with no access to protective custody, then I think there would be a case that she had overstepped her authority and was increasing his chance of assault, because all pedophiles are at significant risk of assault in the general population. But she didn't do that. She just said out loud what probably 90% of the people who read about this case think or say privately, and then she put aside her personal feelings and sentenced him according to the law.

[thessa516]

Justice was served by making him listen to the pain he caused so many. 

 

Huh? Not the prison sentence, but making him listen to the victims' statements? THAT was justice in your eyes?

[ErinE]

Well, and how easy is it to flat out say the stuff he did?

I listened to that one long testimony, and every time she said 'penetrated' I was kind of in awe.

How many kids would have been able to say that and stick to it? Especially after being seriously gaslit and also while pretty much this guy was the 'good cop' of the organization?

I’m really proud of all these women. I can’t imagine their feelings as they testified

[Spy Car]

The death sentence part was separate, not part of the bit about wishing he got what he did to others. It was in the part about getting so many years. 

 

As for how it read, yes, you read it differently than EVERYONE ELSE in this thread. Chances you are the ONLY person with decent reading comprehension? Pretty low. 

 

It isn't difficult to understand the difference between giving a life sentence and signing a death warrant.

 

You're questioning my reading comprehension? 

 

Bill

[Aura]

This whole side issue about the judge's statements is a reminder of how often the real issue of sexual violence is shoved under the rug by men.

 

Let's talk about anything but that. 

 

It's also a reminder of how often men refuse to listen to women and insist that they are the ones that are right, regardless of facts presented to them, and their further insistence that they women must ultimately agree as they think. She doesn't really mean that. I just need to persuade her.

 

You, Bill, have stated your viewpoint over and over again and added nothing more to it. No citations. No links. Just your same opinion. Repetitively.

 

You could have started another thread about the judge. Many people, myself included, have tried to redirect this thread back to the main issue. I started another thread about the judge to discuss what I liked about her specifically so this thread wasn't derailed. I offered it to you to take your complaints there! 

 

Your refusal and insistence to troll this thread is indicative of exactly the problem that many women face in society. It is nothing more than a strawman that detracts from the real issue.

 

He penetrated a girl with his finger.

 

But she didn't understand what was going on.

 

He wasn't even gloved.

 

She doesn't understand proper medical procedures.

 

He was wrong to touch her like that.

 

Let's talk about your gymnastics meet. How about them judges?

 

Talk about disgusting.

[Lostinabook]

But you know who should be unbenched, since he did allow his personal feelings about the case to determine the sentence for a rapist? Judge Aaron Persky, who thought that prison was way too harsh a punishment for a nice rich white boy (and fellow Stanford athlete), just for raping an unconscious woman behind a dumpster. He was a nice boy who made one little mistake, and so he got 3 months in county jail instead. He even used the victim's own statement against her, quoting the phrase "the damage is done" to bolster his belief that sending Brock to prison wouldn't really accomplish anything.

 

I wish I could like this a million times.

[solascriptura]

Huh? Not the prison sentence, but making him listen to the victims' statements? THAT was justice in your eyes?

Yeah. I honestly don’t think he cares about the pain of others. He probably just cares that he was caught and is being punished and humiliated for the heinous crimes that he committed.

Edited January 26, 2018 by solascriptura

[ktgrok]

It isn't difficult to understand the difference between giving a life sentence and signing a death warrant.

 

You're questioning my reading comprehension? 

 

Bill

 

When you come to a different conclusion than the many many people in this thread, after reading the same thing? Yes, either the rest of us don't understand it, or you don't.