Larry Nassar

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The sheer number of complicit people puts this on a level with Penn State. Gross.

 

Worse than PSU imo.

 

[Jyhwkmama]

I also think Valeri Liukin should be rethought as the new head of Womens' Gymnastics. He's also an abusive coach. There are a few coaches who coach their gymnasts hard and get them ready for the highest levels of competition, while still keeping a healthy training environment. Kelly Hill and Aimee Boorman are two examples that stand out.

 

He might be considered tainted now, especially with this intense public scrutiny, as a coach working in his gym was found to be abusing a 14 year old. There is no proof Liukin knew, but USAG might want to avoid any possible appearance problem.

[GoodGrief]

People are exceptionally intimidated by the authority of doctors. There's a lot of magical thinking in our society about the wisdom conveyed to students during medical school.

 

Someone close to me has had personal experience with a child molesting physician, unfortunately.

[eternalsummer]

Maybe heads will continue to roll:

http://statenews.com/article/2018/01/simon-to-resign

[Jyhwkmama]

Maybe heads will continue to roll:

http://statenews.com/article/2018/01/simon-to-resign

I think the MSU gymnastics coach who ignored an athlete's complaints is still there. She needs to go too.

[Lady Florida.]

Maybe heads will continue to roll:

http://statenews.com/article/2018/01/simon-to-resign

 

Unfortunately she's not accepting any responsibility for her part. Ugh.

 

"As tragedies are politicized, blame is inevitable," Simon said in a written statement that seemed likely to only further infuriate her critics. "As president, it is only natural that I am the focus of this anger."

[eternalsummer]

Oh, how obnoxious. 

[Liz CA]

Oh yeah, I forgot that he already has 60 years for the child pornography.  So yeah, there's really no point in his appealing.

 

ETA:  Wait... is this the guy with 60 years for child porn?  There are so many creeps in the news lately, I'm getting them all confused in my head...

 

 

 

Yes, he got 60 years for child porn and then this judge added the other years on top of that. He is unlikely to live long enough naturally to finish the 60 years and who knows what will happen once he is incarcerated.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Unfortunately she's not accepting any responsibility for her part. Ugh.

 

"As tragedies are politicized, blame is inevitable," Simon said in a written statement that seemed likely to only further infuriate her critics. "As one of the people who did not act ethically, it is only natural that I am the focus of this anger."

 

There. I fixed her quote.

Edited January 25, 2018 by ChocolateReignRemix

[Corraleno]

How did the porn charges come about? I’m not 100% current with this story.

 

"While executing a search warrant, MSU police discovered external hard drives with more than 37,000 images and videos of child pornography that had been thrown away in Nassar’s garage can in front of his house on trash collection day."

 

 

 Thirty. Seven. THOUSAND. Images.  And hundreds of girls. I hope he gets an "internal massage" every day in prison for the rest of his life.  :cursing:

[Soror]

I hadn't really read much about this case until yesterday when I watched several of the victim's statements, how utterly horrendous. I think there need to be several more firings at MSU and USAG if they expect to salvage their respective organizations. Those that brushed it under the rug need to be in jail as well, if what they did isn't considered a crime it should be. Simon should never work anywhere again, she is still denying her responsibility in this. I find it unbelievable that anybody thought he was doing any actual treatment, what supposed injuries was this supposed to treat (that little girls would need and if any sport my daughter did necessitated such I would pull her out)? What bullshit! They need to be fired for incompetence at the least.

 

This is further evidence to me that I need to keep on working on empowering my daughters, this is where having a good skepticism of authorities is a very good thing. When talking to my oldest about such things I specifically mentioned relatives, friends, and people in authorities because we often put out this image that men that sexually assault are bad guys lurking in the corners when it is usually the exact opposite. It is an unfortunate truth that we have to put out there to protect our girls. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by soror

[Acorn]

I think the MSU gymnastics coach who ignored an athlete's complaints is still there. She needs to go too.

After she had the team send a sympathy card to Nassar, it was recommended she resign.

[maize]

After she had the team send a sympathy card to Nassar, it was recommended she resign.

Sympathy card?!!!!!!!

[Acorn]

Sympathy card?!!!!!!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amp/msu-abuse-scandal-coach-had-gymnasts-sign-card-dr-larry-n731781

[ErinE]

I hadn't really read much about this case until yesterday when I watched several of the victim's statements, how utterly horrendous. I think there need to be several more firings at MSU and USAG if they expect to salvage their respective organizations. Those that brushed it under the rug need to be in jail as well, if what they did isn't considered a crime it should be. Simon should never work anywhere again, she is still denying her responsibility in this. I find it unbelievable that anybody thought he was doing any actual treatment, what supposed injuries was this supposed to treat (that little girls would need and if any sport my daughter did necessitated such I would pull her out)? What bullshit! They need to be fired for incompetence at the least.

 

This is further evidence to me that I need to keep on working on empowering my daughters, this is where having a good skepticism of authorities is a very good thing. When talking to my oldest about such things I specifically mentioned relatives, friends, and people in authorities because we often put out this image that men that sexually assault are bad guys lurking in the corners when it is usually the exact opposite. It is an unfortunate truth that we have to put out there to protect our girls. 

 

Little Girls in Pretty Boxes details the level of injuries that can come from elite gymnastics. I can see the appeal of the sport and there's a level of camaraderie that comes from participating. It isn't that the child is beating others, so much as performing to his or her highest level. But doing acrobatics on a four-inch wide beam or running full out towards a heavy block or twisting high in the air leads to injuries for many. My younger three are in tumbling, but I won't let them on any of the apparatus which has been a sore spot between one child and me.

Edited January 25, 2018 by ErinE

[Bluegoat]

I think it is worse for the sheer number of victims.   and it is disgusting.

 

 

I remember the gymnastics with the little girl who injured her ankle at the olympics - but was coerced into performing on the vault.  her ankle snapped - but hey, she performed just like they wanted her to!   it's not worth it - they're children - but either the parents want that glory too (I know some of that personality), or are too intimidated to speak out and protect their child.  or too trusting to believe what they're told.

 

 

This ind of relates to my feeling around some of these issues - and not just in gymnastics but also a lot of other elite sports.

 

You have this drive to success which is already beyond the point of what I consider reasonable care for the athletes bodies, in the long term if not the short.  A lot of elite athletes have serious physical problems as they move into middle age, if not before. The women I know who went far in gymnastics, even though they weren't at the top levels, mostly have issues with back, hips, and knees, as a result.

 

I find myself wondering - if you've already concluded that these kinds of things are a reasonable exchange for competing, success, "fulfilling your potential" - how do those kinds of metrics work when you are talking about giving up or putting up with other things?

 

I'm not sure it shows adults thinking clearly or that it's a good way for kids to think, but it seems to be about the only way you can get to the top in certain sports.   

[Soror]

Little Girls in Pretty Boxes details the level of injuries that can come from elite gymnastics. I can see the appeal of the sport and there's a level of camaraderie that comes from participating. It isn't that the child is beating others, so much as performing to his or her highest level. But doing acrobatics on a four-inch wide beam or running full out towards a heavy block or twisting high in the air leads to injuries for many. My younger three are in tumbling, but I won't let them on any of the apparatus which has been a sore spot between one child and me.

Yes, I've seen just a bit of it. We had a friend in gymnastics and even by 9 she'd had multiple injuries, another who is 16 now, she's had multiple surgeries. In my post I was referring more to the fact that I don't believe him sticking his fingers inside of them was treatment for anything at all, I mean I've heard of treatments like that for pelvic floor issues but none of the injuries I've heard discussed would need that kind of treatment, were the other people that stupid, I doubt it. On the off chance that some of them did need some treatment like that I'd still think it wasn't worth it, even if needed that would be unnecessarily traumatic for a young girl or woman, not worth it.

Edited January 25, 2018 by soror

[maize]

Evidently he was quite charismatic.

 

People will go through all kinds of mental contortions to justify the behavior of a likeably charismatic man.

[maize]

Yes, I've seen just a bit of it. We had a friend in gymnastics and even by 9 she'd had multiple injuries, another who is 16 now, she's had multiple surgeries. In my post I was referring more to the fact that I don't believe him sticking his fingers inside of them was treatment for anything at all, I mean I've heard of treatments like that for pelvic floor issues but none of the injuries I've heard discussed would need that kind of treatment, were the other people that stupid, I doubt it. On the off chance that some of them did need some treatment like that I'd still think it wasn't worth it, even if needed that would be unnecessarily traumatic for a young girl or woman, not worth it.

There is no way, given the sensitive nature of anything involving the vagina, that a responsible medical professional would not have carefully explained and obtained explicit permission for any actually necessary procedure.

[Sneezyone]

Little Girls in Pretty Boxes details the level of injuries that can come from elite gymnastics. I can see the appeal of the sport and there's a level of camaraderie that comes from participating. It isn't that the child is beating others, so much as performing to his or her highest level. But doing acrobatics on a four-inch wide beam or running full out towards a heavy block or twisting high in the air leads to injuries for many. My younger three are in tumbling, but I won't let them on any of the apparatus which has been a sore spot between one child and me.

FWIW, It doesn’t get too bad until L8-10 but getting them to quit at that point (if they have the bug?), fat chance. DD was very successful but stopped after she got her giant and BHS on beam. Those were her goals. If the gym is good, the risk of injury is very small up to that point. Edited January 25, 2018 by Sneezyone

[ErinE]

Yes, I've seen just a bit of it. We had a friend in gymnastics and even by 9 she'd had multiple injuries, another who is 16 now, she's had multiple surgeries. In my post I was referring more to the fact that I don't believe him sticking his fingers inside of them was treatment for anything at all, I mean I've heard of treatments like that for pelvic floor issues but none of the injuries I've heard discussed would need that kind of treatment, were the other people that stupid, I doubt it. On the off chance that some of them did need some treatment like that I'd still think it wasn't worth it, even if needed that would be unnecessarily traumatic for a young girl or woman, not worth it.

Oops, sorry! I thought you meant the injuries, and on re-reading, I see how I misunderstood. The “examinations†were ridiculous and I bet the osteopathic doctors consulted about the exams weren’t told everything (medical history, diagnosis and full details of treatment). If they were and still called them legitimate, they should hauled in front of the licensing board.

[ErinE]

Evidently he was quite charismatic.

 

People will go through all kinds of mental contortions to justify the behavior of a likeably charismatic man.

In my experience, they’ll do the same for one who isn’t.

[freesia]

In my experience, they’ll do the same for one who isn’t.

But not to the same level. In our experience with a terribly charismatic teen who behaved in horrible abusive boundary-less ways ( including inappropriate behavior with a young teen girl ), everyone believed it had happened and was wrong and that he was unrepentent, but he continued to be included in teen Social events bc of his charisma while the victims were not included.

 

There is an attitude of yes, that's wrong, but. . .(I'm sure he had a good reason or he'll do better next time or he's so much fun). It never fails to baffle me what some folks can get away with with barely a blip in their life.

[Bluegoat]

I've only read up to this post, so that's why I am quoting it.

 

I know no one wants to hear this, but I think everyone here... on a board with parents devoted absolutely to their own children, and who care deeply about children and people in general....

 

But I think a lot of people would be shocked at how many other people simply don't care. Oh, everyone knows you have to say the things and make icareaboutthis noises when it comes up. But plenty of people feel very shruggy about sexual abuse. 

 

The standard --very very good, I might add!-- advice to tell kids to tell, and keep telling until someone does something doesn't really get them anywhere when the people they tell don't think it's a very big deal for whatever reason. 

 

All of which is to say-- keep talking about why it's awful. *be specific* not just "hurting kids is bad mmk?"

 

I wonder if for many people they find this difficult to express - I suspect for many it's a very intuitive thing, and it also has the kind of feelings that come with transgressing a significant social taboo.  But for many people I am not sure it's something they've thought about much in a more clear way, and they may feel uncomfortable doing so.

[ErinE]

But not to the same level. In our experience with a terribly charismatic teen who behaved in horrible abusive boundary-less ways ( including inappropriate behavior with a young teen girl ), everyone believed it had happened and was wrong and that he was unrepentent, but he continued to be included in teen Social events bc of his charisma while the victims were not included.

 

There is an attitude of yes, that's wrong, but. . .(I'm sure he had a good reason or he'll do better next time or he's so much fun). It never fails to baffle me what some folks can get away with with barely a blip in their life.

I understand what you’re saying, but that isn’t true for me. Decades of abuse, known incidents, multiple children. The abuser was well into old age (great grandchildren!) when the last incident (that I know of) occurred. Embarrassment and reputation maintenance played a huge role in covering up the abuse. And the molester was not a nice person.

 

Before my marriage, I was asked in a judgemental tone why I never talked about the relative by soon to be ILs. Was I embarrassed by the relative? I replied flat out, nope, relative is a child molestor. Not my shame to bear so why should I be embarrassed?

 

I’m sensitive to the issue because my own extended family chose the abuser over my siblings and me. There was no other reason than worry about the perception of others. They made excuses. What will friends say? People will talk.

 

It was decades before I was able to reconnect with my own-age relatives because the adult children of the abuser made the decision to stay silent. My siblings and I, none of us even old enough to drive, decided we weren’t going to pretend everything was fine and gave up attending holiday parties and reunions. I’ve made my peace with it, but incidents like this can bring it to the fore. People chose to protect a serial abuser, an unlikeable person, because they thought the revelation would be embarrassing.

 

ETA: I’ll clarify my post that someone I love dearly was abused, not me. The details aren’t mine to share, but the love and support are, which is why I speak out about the dangers of silence.

Edited January 25, 2018 by ErinE

[freesia]

I understand what you’re saying, but that isn’t true for me. Decades of abuse, known incidents, multiple children. The abuser was well into old age (great grandchildren!) when the last incident (that I know of) occurred. Embarrassment and reputation maintenance played a huge role in covering up the abuse. And the molester was not a nice person.

 

Before my marriage, I was asked in a judgemental tone why I never talked about the relative by soon to be ILs. Was I embarrassed by the relative? I replied flat out, nope, relative is a child molestor. Not my shame to bear so why should I be embarrassed?

 

I’m sensitive to the issue because my own extended family chose the abuser over my siblings and me. There was no other reason than worry about the perception of others. They made excuses. What will friends say? People will talk.

 

It was decades before I was able to reconnect with my own-age relatives because the adult children of the abuser made the decision to stay silent. My siblings and I, none of us even old enough to drive, decided we weren’t going to pretend everything was fine and gave up attending holiday parties and reunions. I’ve made my peace with it, but incidents like this can bring it to the fore. People chose to protect a serial abuser, an unlikeable person, because they thought the revelation would be embarrassing.

Oh, Erin, I'm so sorry this happened to you.

 

 

[ErinE]

Oh, Erin, I'm so sorry this happened to you.

 

 

I’ll clarify my post that someone I love dearly was abused, not me. The details aren’t mine to share, but the love and support are, which is why I speak out about the dangers of silence.

[ktgrok]

Evidently he was quite charismatic.

 

People will go through all kinds of mental contortions to justify the behavior of a likeably charismatic man.

 

Especially AFTER he has touched them that way. They try to justify it to themselves. I've known women that justify horrific things by their Ob/Gyn's, things they would never put up with with any other kind of doctor. But after someone has touched you that intimately it's like the brain wants them to be worthy, rather than find fault in them. Because then you let someone awful touch you there, and that's not something they want to think about. 

 

It's why people LOVE their Ob, rather than their podiatrist or orthopedist. Some weird socialization thing that we can only let people we love touch us there or something. 

[Bluegoat]

About the charisma issue - I'd say that part of that might well be that psychopathic people can be not only charismatic but intensely manipulative in a way that means they can get a way with crazy things.  

 

It's not just that people feel positive towards them - they are often very perceptive of others emotions and thinking, and are able and willing to say exactly what will make the person sympathetic, or what is most likely to convince the person that things are a certain way.

 

That doesn't necessarily reflect on the people being fooled who have no clue they are being manipulated in that way.  It's extremely effective and when you are finally in a position to see it it can be quite shocking.

[4everHis]

I can't help but wonder why other sports doctors are not screaming "foul!" Why are they not coming forward and saying this type of "treatment" isn't in any way what is necessary?  By treatment I mean, unclothed, bare finger insertion, etc. Apart from an OB appointment when would any of that be necessary?  Trying to wrap my head around this.

[clementine]

Even with MSU's president's resignation she can't admit her part in this. 

 

She admits that she heard about a physician sexually abusing female athletes, but never received a report on her desk, so she never followed up.  How is that ok???  A president hears about a crime happening, but because she doesn't get an official report she just lets it go????  Disgusting.  

[shawthorne44]

I wish that I could believe that he'd be placed with the general population.  

I wish that I could believe that he would not be let out of prison at some point in his life.  

 

But, the reality is that he will likely be placed in a special area of the prison for "reserved specifically for inmates who's lives are in danger".   The only chance that he won't be let out at some point is his notoriety.  If people forget, he'll be out.  The time behind bars and the sentence are only vaguely related to each other.  

[Corraleno]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amp/msu-abuse-scandal-coach-had-gymnasts-sign-card-dr-larry-n731781

So even after multiple girls came forward AND the police found all the child porn, the MSU coach not only continued to insist that Nassar was innocent and that his "treatments" were normal medical practice which the girls had "misinterpreted," she even claimed the child porn was likely planted on his computer by someone who was suing him???

 

And then after she was forced to resign, her lawyer released a statement that she had no idea he was doing anything wrong and that "had she ever received any information to cast doubt on the appropriateness of her trust in Dr. Nassar, she would have reacted immediately to protect her gymnasts."

 

:cursing:  :cursing:  :cursing:

[TechWife]

I wish that I could believe that he'd be placed with the general population.  

I wish that I could believe that he would not be let out of prison at some point in his life.  

 

But, the reality is that he will likely be placed in a special area of the prison for "reserved specifically for inmates who's lives are in danger".   The only chance that he won't be let out at some point is his notoriety.  If people forget, he'll be out.  The time behind bars and the sentence are only vaguely related to each other.  

 

Does this mean that  you wish him to be placed in the general population to increase his risk of getting attacked and/or raped? I have seen many people express this sentiment, please let me know if that is not an accurate interpretation. If it is, I have a problem. I don't think anyone should be attacked/raped. Rape is never okay. Never. To answer violence with violence is not acceptable. We need to act like the people we are and not drop to behavior standards the lowest element of our society. 

[Corraleno]

This is probably the most heartbreaking of all the victims' stories. Larisaa Boyce reported Nassar in 1997 (20 years ago!) and not only did MSU and Kathie Klages do nothing, Klages told Nassar that Boyce had complained about him!

 

In fact, Boyce said, Klages told Nassar about Boyce's concerns, and at Boyce's next appointment with Nassar, "pulled up a stool and said, 'so, I talked to Kathie ..."

 

"I had to listen to you explain away your abuse," Boyce told Nassar in the courtroom. "I apologized to you. I apologized for the misunderstanding and said it was all my fault.

 

"And to prove to you that I didn't have a dirty mind, I hopped up on that exam table. You were rough and harsh (with the treatment) that day," Boyce recalled. "I had been defeated. You and Kathie silenced me."

 

Boyce said she went on to receive more than 100 treatments from Nassar over four years, putting aside her doubts and confusion.

He forced her to admit that her feelings were wrong and SHE was the one with the "dirty mind" who misinterpreted what he did as sexual. Klages should be in prison too, for aiding and abetting this sick pedophile for 20+ years.

[eternalsummer]

So I looked up gymnastics forums on the internet and found the largest one and read some parent threads (largely parents) and I now have a much better understanding of how this kind of thing can happen.  on the whole, although there were exceptions, parents seem to be largely content to let the coaches treat their daughters how they like; the most moderate positions on things like punishing girls for being afraid of doing dangerous tricks were to not push the girl any harder than her coach was already pushing her, not to punish her in addition to the coach's punishment, or maybe on occasion to commiserate with the feeling.

 

The girls referred to in these threads are 9-12 years old, generally speaking.

 

nope, nope, nope.  The day you punish my kid for being afraid of doing something that is actually pretty dangerous (or anything, but especially something dangerous) is the day that sport is done.  I just can't believe some of what parents will allow to be done to their children, physically, psychologically, even, as it turns out, sexually.

[eternalsummer]

Also, I've seen variations of this weird statement: that what made it bad was that his finger was ungloved.

 

Look, if a sport is giving my daughter injuries such that a doctor has to repeatedly (100 times!  Seriously!) insert his finger in her vagina, gloved or ungloved, the sport is not worth it.  It's like part of the argument is that it wasn't really a legitimate medical treatment - I dunno. It doesn't matter how legitimate it is, it's unacceptable in this context. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by eternalsummer

[TechWife]

If you are interested in hearing the full victim impact statement from Rachael Denhollander, you can view it here. Please be aware that it contains very specific details of the assaults and therefore is graphic in some places. The video posted early was heavily edited - she spoke for just over 40 minutes. She is one amazing young woman. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by TechWife

[Soror]

If you are interested in hearing the full victim impact statement from Rachael Denhollander, you can view it here. Please be aware that it contains very specific details of the assaults and therefore is graphic in some places. The video posted early was heavily edited - she spoke for just over 40 minutes. She is one amazing young woman. 

 

I watched most of that yesterday, she is incredible and from what I understand has been instrumental in finally getting this man brought to justice.

 

re: punishment for Nassar- I have mixed feelings about it. I would be lying if I said that a part of me doesn't want to see him abused like he abused those girls but I also feel sick thinking about it. There really is not a punishment that seems to be appropriate for the crime that is humane.

[shawthorne44]

Does this mean that  you wish him to be placed in the general population to increase his risk of getting attacked and/or raped? I have seen many people express this sentiment, please let me know if that is not an accurate interpretation. If it is, I have a problem. I don't think anyone should be attacked/raped. Rape is never okay. Never. To answer violence with violence is not acceptable. We need to act like the people we are and not drop to behavior standards the lowest element of our society. 

 

 

I have a problem with child molesters getting special treatment.   

[Spy Car]

IMO this judge should be removed from the bench. It is unacceptable for a judge to say: 

 

Our Constitution does not allow for cruel and unusual punishment.“If it did, I have to say, I might allow what he did to all of these beautiful souls ― these young women in their childhood ― I would allow some or many people to do to him what he did to others.

 

Were it up to me, Judge Aquilina would be removed, possibly disbarred, and certainly censured for these remarks. They are appalling.

 

Larry Nasser certainly deserves to be rebuked in the strongest terms and life imprisonment is the correct sentence. But saying from the bench that, were it in her power and not constitutionally prohibited, that a judge would wish sexually assault on a person she is sentencing is beyond the pale.

 

Absolutely unacceptable behavior from a judge.

 

Bill     

[Aura]

IMO this judge should be removed from the bench. It is unacceptable for a judge to say: 

 

Our Constitution does not allow for cruel and unusual punishment.“If it did, I have to say, I might allow what he did to all of these beautiful souls ― these young women in their childhood ― I would allow some or many people to do to him what he did to others.

 

Were it up to me, Judge Aquilina would be removed, possibly disbarred, and certainly censured for these remarks. They are appalling.

 

Larry Nasser certainly deserves to be rebuked in the strongest terms and life imprisonment is the correct sentence. But saying from the bench that, were it in her power and not constitutionally prohibited, that a judge would wish sexually assault on a person she is sentencing is beyond the pale.

 

Absolutely unacceptable behavior from a judge.

 

Bill     

 

I think it puts things in the right perspective, not only to the guilty but to everyone else, too. 

 

"How would you like it I had people do to you what you did to them?"

 

 

The person saying that literally controls of his future. Now, let that sink in to his mind. Let him imagine having done to him what he did to all those little girls.

 

Doesn't mean she's condoning that action in any form, but it is a very good way of impressing the reality of what he did into his mind. Very strong, very acceptable rebuke.

 

Hardly appalling.

[Spy Car]

I think it puts things in the right perspective, not only to the guilty but to everyone else, too. 

 

"How would you like it I had people do to you what you did to them?"

 

 

The person saying that literally controls of his future. Now, let that sink in to his mind. Let him imagine having done to him what he did to all those little girls.

 

Doesn't mean she's condoning that action in any form, but it is a very good way of impressing the reality of what he did into his mind. Very strong, very acceptable rebuke.

 

Hardly appalling.

 

Quite appalling. Her words were not some restatement of the Golden Rule. Far from it.

 

She said were it in her power she'd allow Nasser to be repeatedly assaulted sexually. That is not the way judges should speak from the bench.

 

It is unacceptable.

 

Bill

[Aura]

Quite appalling. Her words were not some restatement of the Golden Rule. Far from it.

 

She said were it in her power she'd allow Nasser to be repeatedly assaulted sexually. That is not the way judges should speak from the bench.

 

It is unacceptable.

 

Bill

 

She did not say that she would allow it or call for it. She did say that the thought had crossed her mind. That is not the same thing at all as endorsing or calling for sexual assault at all.

 

Using language like that to underscore the gravity of what a tried and convicted criminal did, to make it really personalize how awful his actions were, is perfectly acceptable.

 

So I completely disagree with you.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Aura

[EMS83]

What the.... ?!?

 

I have no words.

 

Oh I have words.  Plenty of them.

[Spy Car]

She did not say that she would allow it or call for it. She did say that the thought had crossed her mind. That is not the same thing at all as endorsing or calling for sexual assault at all.

 

Using language like that to underscore the gravity of what a tried and convicted criminal did, to make it really personalize how awful his actions were, is perfectly acceptable.

 

So I completely disagree with you.

 

I'm sorry, but what you are saying isn't true.

 

She specifically said (direct quote):

 

I would allow some or many people to do to him what he did to others.

 

This is not acceptable behavior on the part of a judge. He deserved a tongue-lashing (an understatement if there ever was one), but wishing rape on a prisoner and saying you'd allow it (if not constrained by the Constitution) is shocking behavior from a judge.

 

Bill

[swimmermom3]

IMO this judge should be removed from the bench. It is unacceptable for a judge to say: 

 

Our Constitution does not allow for cruel and unusual punishment.“If it did, I have to say, I might allow what he did to all of these beautiful souls ― these young women in their childhood ― I would allow some or many people to do to him what he did to others.

 

Were it up to me, Judge Aquilina would be removed, possibly disbarred, and certainly censured for these remarks. They are appalling.

 

Larry Nasser certainly deserves to be rebuked in the strongest terms and life imprisonment is the correct sentence. But saying from the bench that, were it in her power and not constitutionally prohibited, that a judge would wish sexually assault on a person she is sentencing is beyond the pale.

 

Absolutely unacceptable behavior from a judge.

 

Bill     

 

Is there anyway her remarks could taint the case or in any way cause a problem for the outcome? Obviously, I don't know my law. Could there be an appeal based on her statement?

[EMS83]

Is there anyway her remarks could taint the case or in any way cause a problem for the outcome? Obviously, I don't know my law. Could there be an appeal based on her statement?

I hope not.  I can't "like" anymore, but I do agree with Bill.  If it had been phrased differently, ok.  Even "how would you like it if...?"  But the direct quote he quoted is not worthy of a judge from the bench, even if it's true and especially if it can aid an appeal.

 

 

Edited for clarity.

Edited January 25, 2018 by CES2005

[TechWife]

She did not say that she would allow it or call for it. She did say that the thought had crossed her mind. That is not the same thing at all as endorsing or calling for sexual assault at all.

 

Using language like that to underscore the gravity of what a tried and convicted criminal did, to make it really personalize how awful his actions were, is perfectly acceptable.

 

So I completely disagree with you.

 

Not everything that crosses my mind comes out of my mouth.

 

I agree with SpyCar, she should not have said this in open court. She did not need to say anything to underscore the gravity of what he did or to personalize it, that is the purpose of legal testimony and victim impact statements. 

[TechWife]

Is there anyway her remarks could taint the case or in any way cause a problem for the outcome? Obviously, I don't know my law. Could there be an appeal based on her statement?

 

That's a good question. I hope not, I'd hate for those women to have to go through that again.