Paige Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Baby is just barely 3mos old and we've always had a fine nursing relationship more or less. He's getting a tongue tie fixed this week and I know he nurses poorly. Despite not having as much milk as w/my other kids (huge oversupply issues) what I had was more than sufficient. Until tonight. I fed him at 5:30pm and everything was normal; he spit up a ton as usual. I went to feed him at 8:30pm and literally had nothing unless I hand expressed for him. Even then it was only drops. He was mad. Fortunately I have plenty in the freezer, but he refuses to drink from a bottle. What could be the problem? He's a sad little guy. I'm not taking any new meds, not pregnant, not sick, wasn't stressed, and can't think of anything new except possibly my diet. I started eating a mostly vegetarian/vegan diet this past weekend. Could that be it? I've tried to be careful about getting plenty of protein and calories but maybe it's not enough. Just in case, I ate a big pile of meat a few minutes ago. Any other ideas or help? I tried pumping to get the milk started for him, but even double pumping got me nothing. Tomorrow I can't decide if I should take him to a lactation consultant or spend all day in bed nursing skin to skin and pumping. I have a bottle of expressed milk out now and he doesn't seem to know how to suck and spits out whatever falls in his mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I have no idea. But I have been vegetarian for over 20 years. I admit I have usually not even worried about getting enough of this or that - and I had enough breatmilk to feed an army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 No, I don't think a dip in meat intake (even if you are very low protein) would have that result. I am a veg and had no problems breastfeeding two kids. Hopefully it's just a blip. The 3 month mark is hard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I'm not a lactation expert or anything, but I was just wondering--you know how there are generally significant appetite increases at approx. 3 weeks, 6 weeks, 3 months, and 6 months? Is it possible that in the last day or so he has had an appetite increase, and has been getting more milk than you realized--and thus drunk you dry? It's been a long time since my breastfeeding days, but I seem to remember that happening a time or two at the beginning of one of those huge increases. Then after nursing constantly for a couple of days (with lots of rest and hydration for me), the supply caught up and regulated. Just wondering--may not be your situation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I would increase your fluid intake & calories (not necessarily changing diet - just make sure adequate calories & your macro ratios of protein/carb/fat are where they're supposed to be; it doesn't need to be animal protein; you can make more than enough milk on vegetarian and vegan diets) & do tons of skin to skin. Give it 24h and see what it's looking like then. you do have to keep in the back of your mind the slight possibility that his less than optimal feeding did not initiate your milk supply fully. *occasionally* supply issues like this crop up later. You can top him up from a cup rather than a bottle. In fact, I'd recommend that. I'd do everything possible to avoid giving a bottle to a baby with a tie and with already compromised nursing technique. Good luck! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 The 3 month mark is hard! I hope that it's just that. I had a hard time getting the pediatrician to take his tongue tie and poor nursing seriously because he was gaining weight so well. I've been telling her it's me getting that milk in him and not due to any effort on his part and that I was afraid that when my supply regulated around 3mos that it would drop too much, but this is crazy. He gets it fixed in a few days and the ENT assured me that he'd be nursing better within minutes. Still, I expected a more gradual decline- not from one nursing session to the next. Maybe it's the perfect storm of 3mos, tongue tie, and a decline in protein or calories. He's sleeping now- finally- but I'm going to try to nurse him as much as possible tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 You can top him up from a cup rather than a bottle. In fact, I'd recommend that. I'd do everything possible to avoid giving a bottle to a baby with a tie and with already compromised nursing technique. Good luck! What about a syringe? I can't imagine giving him a cup- he's so messy with the breast and bottle as it is. Even when he nurses, half of it goes out the other side of his mouth. I gave him milk with a syringe as a newborn when he wasn't nursing well before my milk came in and he tolerated it pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 When mine was 3 months I started just eating, like, lots of ice cream. I don't know if it is medicinal but .... that was 7 years ago now and it's still a happy memory, lol. Hang in there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadenceSophia Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I seriously seriously doubt it is even possible to lose your supply between 5:30 and 8:30 pm. Drink some water, have some fats, get good sleep. It's normal to seem 'dry' at one feed or another. Do NOT run straight for a bottle. Those feeds increase your supply. Also soon your supply will be time regulated to your baby's routine. If he/she wants to nurse a lot outside of expected time it might take longer to get going. If the tongue tie is getting fixed this week, I'd just have a nurse in tomorrow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Are you getting enough fat? Ditto Sophia about not losing supply in 3 hours, OTOH, I know when my milk has been low (losing weight too fast), I had enough early in the day and then nothing in the evening. For me, I upped the amount of food with a focus on healthy fats. Emily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 I seriously seriously doubt it is even possible to lose your supply between 5:30 and 8:30 pm. Drink some water, have some fats, get good sleep. It's normal to seem 'dry' at one feed or another. Do NOT run straight for a bottle. Those feeds increase your supply. Also soon your supply will be time regulated to your baby's routine. If he/she wants to nurse a lot outside of expected time it might take longer to get going. If the tongue tie is getting fixed this week, I'd just have a nurse in tomorrow. This is my 5th baby breastfeeding and I've never had no milk or been unable to express milk once my milk came in before. Usually it takes me years to dry up. But, this baby is different because he's a crap nurser. I'm glad to hear it's normal to have blips. I thought it was crazy to have plenty of milk at one nursing session and none at the next too. It seemed so random and bizarre. Are you getting enough fat? Ditto Sophia about not losing supply in 3 hours, OTOH, I know when my milk has been low (losing weight too fast), I had enough early in the day and then nothing in the evening. For me, I upped the amount of food with a focus on healthy fats. Emily I don't know. I was tracking more protein/calories than fat. I'd guess I was getting less fat than normal, but I dunno. With my other kids I would lose SO much weight when nursing; with this guy I haven't lost as much, which has actually been a good thing. My BMI is about 17 right now and I'm not trying to lose weight. With other kids, my BMI dropped to as low as just above 14 and I still had oversupply problems. We were trying to reduce my supply to decrease weight loss in the past so it's weird to think I need to increase weight/calories to increase supply this time. I just had a bowl of ice cream so maybe that'll help. Of course, I've done everything now so I won't know what helps. I pumped, ate a pile of meat, a bowl of ice cream, almost a whole pitcher of rooibos tea, and I have had the baby on the breast most of the night. The last time he tried to nurse, I could finally feel a little letdown, so I'm feeling a lot better. It's a terrible feeling to have a hungry, frustrated, heartbroken baby and be unable to feed him anything. :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 I have tons of thoughts coming to mind, having gone through this recently with my 5th baby as well. Tongue tie and all. Our big difference was I didn’t have an initial over-supply to help compensate, so it was a more dire situation in the early months. First, I wouldn’t worry about just one feed. It’s very likely growth spurt time. Let him eat, eat, eat (as I know you are). Do you typically pump these days? If not, it’s not uncommon in my experience to lose your response to the pump if you’re not typically doing it. I certainly did. How often is he eating? If you’re able to find an OT in your area who specializes in babies with feeding issues, that can be super helpful. Hopefully, fixing the tongue tie will really help. Does he have any significant degree of reflux, do you know? He usually eats every 2-3 hours, sometimes more. He's inefficient, so he eats more frequently than my other kids. I haven't pumped in several weeks because he eats so often that it's hard. He has been spitting up since day 1. I remember asking the doctor if it was normal for a 2 day old to spit up and sneeze so much since I knew he was only getting tiny bits of colostrum. The doctor will not medicate. It's maddening; all my other kids had reflux and the ones who got meds did so much better. My first DS was obviously a reflux baby in retrospect but I was young and dumb and had no idea he was abnormal. This baby sleeps on my chest every night, all night because the minute we put him on his back he spits all over himself. It doesn't matter how long it's been since he's eaten. The doctor refuses to treat him since he's gaining weight. He sucks air when he nurses and never gets a good seal so I'm praying the tongue tie clip will help with the spitting and the excessive gas. I was drinking moringa tea often until I ran out last week. I wonder if that had anything to do with it. I had no idea it was a galactologue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Have you tried beer? This is a serious question. I agree with all the others that stress and exhaustion are much more likely causes of lack of letdown, than not eating meat for what is a very short period. (And I'm a meat eater... I love meat lol.) That said, your BMI is 17? That's almost like having a BMI of over 30, in terms of risks to your health. So I hereby prescribe beer and chocolate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwalker Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I would suspect the baby's weak suck rather than your diet. You mentioned not having time to pump (which of course you don't!) But maybe pumping after a couple feeds a day for a few minutes would help boost your supply. Also Mother's Milk increase cookies are delicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 My body demands lots of protein and fat when I am breastfeeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 For the tongue tie, with a couple of mine, I have needed to help them by holding their jaws a bit to keep them from losing suction. It’s a very telltale click they make, not the good click. It’s good that you’re getting the tie snipped. I hope that helps a ton! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 If I were to take a guess, I'd say that a change in diet might be one component, along with the other things you mention. Like Tsuga said, a BMI that low would be a potential problem along with that kid of change in diet - at a certain point without enough fats and proteins your milk supply will shut down. If you had a lower supply to start with, all the more. As far as having a lower supply, part of that may just be the hormonal changes of age - I always had a copious supply too, but with my youngest after a 7 year break, I was starting to experience age related hormonal shifts, and it did affect my milk supply - I also had an experience where things were just empty at a certain point - and actually around the same age when there was a growth spurt. If you want to keep up with the vegetarian diet, I'd try and do a little experimenting in terms of getting things back to whatever is normal now, and then changing your diet and watching the results. If you see a dip, you could try adding more fat in other ways or more calories, to find what works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalsummer Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Have you tried beer? This is a serious question. I agree with all the others that stress and exhaustion are much more likely causes of lack of letdown, than not eating meat for what is a very short period. (And I'm a meat eater... I love meat lol.) That said, your BMI is 17? That's almost like having a BMI of over 30, in terms of risks to your health. So I hereby prescribe beer and chocolate. I don't know that this is necessarily true - it fails to account for the fact that many people who are that thin are suffering from cancer or some other wasting disease, so that the low BMI is an effect of the disease (rather than being a cause of disease). OP, I'd get a new doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwalker Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Maybe your period is returning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymama7 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 In my experience with my last baby born at 37 for me, a change in diet did affect my milk. Everytime. I was so frustrated because I needed to lose desperately. If you weren't tracking calories before you may not realize that you are eating less calories even if technically enough calories. I figured out later that that must of been my problem. The body is used to what you are feeding it and any change screams "famine" to it is all I can figure. I think it was that in combination with the hormone changes of age. I was only able to continue nursing her after a major drop like that by using medication to bring my milk back in. Good luck! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Maybe your period is returning? Please, no. I don’t want it. No periods are one of the best parts about breastfeeding! A low BMI is normal for me. Aging sucks. I’ve been doing all the things to increase my supply since last night and it seems to be helping. He had no poops last night and his diaper was hardly wet this morning, but today he’s already had 4 dirty ones, so I’m feeling less worried. And he’s spitting up a ton again so I know he at least took milk in. I really like our doctor other than this reflux/ tongue tie issue. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 In my experience with my last baby born at 37 for me, a change in diet did affect my milk. Everytime. I was so frustrated because I needed to lose desperately. If you weren't tracking calories before you may not realize that you are eating less calories even if technically enough calories. I figured out later that that must of been my problem. The body is used to what you are feeding it and any change screams "famine" to it is all I can figure. I think it was that in combination with the hormone changes of age. I was only able to continue nursing her after a major drop like that by using medication to bring my milk back in. Good luck! Same. Never had a problem with other babies, but now that I'm older any change in diet does effect supply. I need enough calories, fat, and carbs or I don't lose. Protein is the least important in my experience. My guess is some fatty pizza or something will fix it in a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalsummer Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Please, no. I don’t want it. No periods are one of the best parts about breastfeeding! A low BMI is normal for me. Aging sucks. I’ve been doing all the things to increase my supply since last night and it seems to be helping. He had no poops last night and his diaper was hardly wet this morning, but today he’s already had 4 dirty ones, so I’m feeling less worried. And he’s spitting up a ton again so I know he at least took milk in. I really like our doctor other than this reflux/ tongue tie issue. So just go to another pediatrician once or twice for the reflux situation. Call first and explain your concerns in brief (baby spitting up constantly, gaining weight but sleeping is difficult and you think he has reflux, current ped. is great but refuses to treat the reflux, can you help me?) I really think a baby who cannot lie on his back at all because he refluxes is not an ideal situation; it's not good for him or you (although you can mitigate it now by sleeping with him upright on you - what if you were sick for a week and couldn't safely sleep with him?). I'm glad your supply is working again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 You could try to nurse more often. Like, offer every half hour unless he's asleep. And pump after feeds. Oatmeal is another dietary thing that's supposed to help and hasn't been mentioned. Vegetarian diet itself shouldn't cause this; diet changes might, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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