wintermom Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Not everyone chooses to or can afford to take a southern winter vacation, but plenty do. Is there a biological component pushing that selection? That's my curiosity. Wouldn't we have had wings then, so we could fly south along with the birds. :laugh: I've often dreamed of hibernating through the cold and waking up in time for spring skiing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelle Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 In the south there is not such thing out-of-style coats. Remember, the rest of us don't see coats or wear coats any more than you do. I did find my ski mittens the other day. I couldn't find a winter hat, but somehow having toasty hands made it OK. I love coats though! LOL There are enough chilly days to wear a coat fairly regularly, but not a ski coat or gloves etc.. Oh..and we found the gloves and scarves today..In a broken suitcase in the attic. I fell in love with J.Crew Lady Day Coat and similar! We went to visit dh family in Tasmania in June and I used that as an excuse to buy myself a new wool coat. I think it had been 10 years since I bought any sort of coat. Coats are on awesome sale in June in the Northern Hemisphere..perhaps I should have bought two!! So now I have a wool coat that is pretty new and a 20 year old ski coat. What I "need" is one of those cute waist length puffer coats. Right?! Just say yes! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) During the winter months, those of us living in the northern latitudes can't make enough from the sun even if we sunbathe outside. It's too low on the horizon. Yes, but if there were a biological urge for the body to seek out vitamin D (which is what you were wondering about), humans would still have the urge to maximize their time outside, because, evolutionary, they would not have had the option to migrate to warmer climes quickly enough. They would want to soak up every bit of sun they can. Edited January 6, 2018 by regentrude 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) Wouldn't we have had wings then, so we could fly south along with the birds. :laugh: I've often dreamed of hibernating through the cold and waking up in time for spring skiing. Doubtful. Plenty of mammals have to travel to sources to get enough minerals. Having wings would be nice though! I've never had a desire to hibernate. There's too much to do that I enjoy doing to want to sleep half my life away in addition to the third we already spend sleeping. Yes, but if there were a biological urge for the body to seek out vitamin D (which is what you were wondering about), humans would still have the urge to maximize their time outside, because, evolutionary, they would not have had the option to migrate to warmer climes quickly enough. They would want to soak up every bit of sun they can. Humans are quite diverse. Some of us have an urge to spend a bit of time outside. ;) Then too, not everyone has biological urges for things that improve our health and there'd be no biological urge to do something that didn't work - like spending time outdoors in the winter in the northern latitudes. That said, humans have evolved to store Vit D for the times we can't make it. Mounting nutritional studies/evidence are showing we're not necessarily storing enough (esp now that many actively avoid the sun compared to an earlier age when they didn't) and it seems to be more important than originally thought. Folks I know who travel south for a vacation in the winter report feeling better when they return and tend to want to repeat that behavior in future years. It wouldn't surprise me if our bodies were giving us a nudge even if we think it's just due to winter weather. One can avoid winter weather inside - vacation to Mall of America in Jan. One could go to FL in the summer. Fewer do and those I know who come back after having done so rarely want to go twice (in the summer). There was one show we watched in the past that pondered if Ponce de Leon's Fountain of Youth wasn't water, but actually Vitamin D. Interesting thought. Edited January 6, 2018 by creekland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Folks I know who travel south for a vacation in the winter report feeling better when they return and tend to want to repeat that behavior in future years. The people I know who travel for vacation at the same, or more Northern, latitude also feel better when they return and tend to want to repeat that behavior in future years. I think the key word here is vacation ;) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 The people I know who travel for vacation at the same, or more Northern, latitude also feel better when they return and tend to want to repeat that behavior in future years. I think the key word here is vacation ;) Perhaps, who knows? Both of us have only anecdotal evidence. It would be interesting to see if there are lower Vit D levels among those who choose south vs north for trips in the winter, but realistically I doubt that study could ever be done. It's just hypothetical wondering and certainly wouldn't surprise me at all if it were true considering the massive numbers choosing it. Many studies end up supporting what is seen in stats and with humans being mammals, it easily makes sense theoretically. Regardless... we're planning on restoring our Vit D each winter whether it helps our health or not. It helps our mental health if nothing else! And I'm ok with the placebo effect working if that helps the rest of our health from the mere thought of recharging Vit D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I love coats though! LOL There are enough chilly days to wear a coat fairly regularly, but not a ski coat or gloves etc.. Oh..and we found the gloves and scarves today..In a broken suitcase in the attic. I fell in love with J.Crew Lady Day Coat and similar! We went to visit dh family in Tasmania in June and I used that as an excuse to buy myself a new wool coat. I think it had been 10 years since I bought any sort of coat. Coats are on awesome sale in June in the Northern Hemisphere..perhaps I should have bought two!! So now I have a wool coat that is pretty new and a 20 year old ski coat. What I "need" is one of those cute waist length puffer coats. Right?! Just say yes! LOL I love them too. I attribute it to being a kid in Minnesota winters, and getting one and only one coat a year. That was normal, at least for everyone I knew. But, outdoor recess in Minnesota winter has a large coat-needed temperature range. So, there were many days where the coat was too warm or too cold. The things we felt deprived of, we splurge on later in life. But, I still don't see many coats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Oh this is the other extreme. Heat and fire danger. I remember this from several summers where we had similar though not quite as hot conditions (around 36 C). And two of your dc are firefighters? Hope it cools down a bit and NO fires and everyone remains safe. Cool change has arrived, though no rain. Yes 2 DC are remote area bush firefighters. The ones that walk into thick bush with backpacks , hoes etc and make mineral breaks in front of the fires, take turns in fire watchtowers, and patrol remote areas and halt fires before they get big. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Cool change has arrived, though no rain. Yes 2 DC are remote area bush firefighters. The ones that walk into thick bush with backpacks , hoes etc and make mineral breaks in front of the fires, take turns in fire watchtowers, and patrol remote areas and halt fires before they get big. Glad you all got through ok. Enjoying the cool here. Yesterday was a bit of a scary day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) During the winter months, those of us living in the northern latitudes can't make enough from the sun even if we sunbathe outside. It's too low on the horizon. "Except during the summer months, the skin makes little if any vitamin D from the sun at latitudes above 37 degrees north That's pretty funny. We are above 55 degrees north... Husband, who grew up in Texas, yearns for sun in the winter - we have lots of bright sunny days (today, for example) as most rain in Scotland falls on the west coast/mountains before it reaches us, but darkness at 4pm gets him down unless he uses his SAD lamp diligently. We are having lovely cold crisp days, nothing like the temperatures in North America - it's around freezing. Going to see this tonight: https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/culture/books/edinburgh-s-hogmanay-the-streets-light-up-for-val-mcdermid-1-4646515 Edited January 7, 2018 by Laura Corin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Cool change has arrived, though no rain. Yes 2 DC are remote area bush firefighters. The ones that walk into thick bush with backpacks , hoes etc and make mineral breaks in front of the fires, take turns in fire watchtowers, and patrol remote areas and halt fires before they get big. It's quite the day when BBC has top news stories relating both the record heat and record cold happening at the same time. The planet really ought to distribute things better. :closedeyes: I'm glad you have cool change. I'm glad our cold snap is ending. Win win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 That's pretty funny. We are above 55 degrees north... Husband, who grew up in Texas, yearns for sun in the winter - we have lots of bright sunny days (today, for example) as most rain in Scotland falls on the west coast/mountains before it reaches us, but darkness at 4pm gets him down unless he uses his SAD lamp diligently. We are having lovely cold crisp days, nothing like the temperatures in North America - it's around freezing. Going to see this tonight: https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/culture/books/edinburgh-s-hogmanay-the-streets-light-up-for-val-mcdermid-1-4646515 That looks really neat - how creative! I'll admit I thought it was common knowledge that humans couldn't make Vitamin D in the northern latitudes during winter, but I suspect my thoughts come from it being something I often teach to high schoolers causing me to think it's taught everywhere. I learned it in high school if I recall correctly. However, since high schoolers don't usually know before I tell them, it's probable their parents don't either. It's probably one of those trivia facts that my brain retained - perhaps due to wanting an excuse to travel south in the winter to recharge? Certainly 'tis a good excuse - especially now that science is showing the multiple benefits of Vitamin D. :coolgleamA: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I'll admit I thought it was common knowledge that humans couldn't make Vitamin D in the northern latitudes during winter, but I suspect my thoughts come from it being something I often teach to high schoolers causing me to think it's taught everywhere. I learned it in high school if I recall correctly. I don't remember Vitamin D being specifically taught at school, but I opted out of biology from age 14 onwards - able girls did 2-4 years of physics and chemistry instead. I remember doing an optional after-school childcare course, and vitamin D was mentioned in that. Low vitamin D was described as being an issue for old people who might not go out much, people with dark skins and people who cover for religious reasons. Latitude wasn't mentioned, but the whole of the UK is above your 37 degrees... It was a different world though in the UK in the 1970s - many people didn't have cars, so walking and public transport (ie standing outside waiting for buses) were very common. Vitamin D uptake in summer was probably a lot higher than it is now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I don't remember Vitamin D being specifically taught at school, but I opted out of biology from age 14 onwards - able girls did 2-4 years of physics and chemistry instead. I remember doing an optional after-school childcare course, and vitamin D was mentioned in that. Low vitamin D was described as being an issue for old people who might not go out much, people with dark skins and people who cover for religious reasons. Latitude wasn't mentioned, but the whole of the UK is above your 37 degrees... It was a different world though in the UK in the 1970s - many people didn't have cars, so walking and public transport (ie standing outside waiting for buses) were very common. Vitamin D uptake in summer was probably a lot higher than it is now. I know that in Norway, it's traditional to take cod liver oil in the winter. Is this similar in the UK? They get their Vit D concentrated in the cod liver oil. It's pretty nasty tasting, so maybe people stopped doing this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) I don't remember Vitamin D being specifically taught at school, but I opted out of biology from age 14 onwards - able girls did 2-4 years of physics and chemistry instead. I remember doing an optional after-school childcare course, and vitamin D was mentioned in that. Low vitamin D was described as being an issue for old people who might not go out much, people with dark skins and people who cover for religious reasons. Latitude wasn't mentioned, but the whole of the UK is above your 37 degrees... It was a different world though in the UK in the 1970s - many people didn't have cars, so walking and public transport (ie standing outside waiting for buses) were very common. Vitamin D uptake in summer was probably a lot higher than it is now. I think we learned about it in health class, not Bio, but in my school it can come up in Health (9th grade), Fitness and Wellness (11th grade), Bio (10th grade) and/or Anatomy (11th/12th grade elective) pending teacher. I'm not sure it's in the required curriculum, but it's commonly talked about as an addition and I know among the teachers I eat with that we often share new studies that any of us find (about anything in nutrition or science, not just this). When I was young we were taught that's why it was important that we drink milk since it's been fortified with Vitamin D in the US for ages (not sure how long, but a long time). I was also taught that one had to be in/around Atlanta or south to get Vitamin D year-round. I don't know if they had pinpointed exactly where the "safe" area was or not back then or if our teachers just used something we could more easily identify with than a certain line on the globe. The fact that most humans don't spend as much time outdoors and actively use sunscreen or cover up is considered a big reason why there are more problems than before - BUT - one also has to factor in skin cancer when making decisions. This is often a discussion question in class because it's a real world (personal) problem students need to think about and make informed decisions on in their lives. I did a quick google search and this older (2010) Harvard Health article seems to sum up a bit of what we teach about Vitamin D for anyone curious: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/vitamin-d/ I know I learn new things from the Hive practically daily, so it's not really any big deal if this has been a gap in anyone's education. It's still worthy of knowing though IMO. Edited January 7, 2018 by creekland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Plus one!!!!! Stop yer braggin' We're warming up, too, now! Already -17 F with the windchill. Yeeha! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) Stop yer braggin' We're warming up, too, now! Already -17 F with the windchill. Yeeha! I love how my phone put it last night. Tonight: -5 Cold Tomorrow: 21 Not as cold Duh! I wonder how much the person putting that script in got paid... Edited January 7, 2018 by creekland 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Stop yer braggin' We're warming up, too, now! Already -17 F with the windchill. Yeeha! I just keep thinking my DD certainly did “pick†an optimal time to study in the south of France. (Not that she actually picked the time...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I know that in Norway, it's traditional to take cod liver oil in the winter. Is this similar in the UK? They get their Vit D concentrated in the cod liver oil. It's pretty nasty tasting, so maybe people stopped doing this. I still take it off and on. There are better tasting versions out there now. :) And yes, I am of Scandinavian descent and I regularly supplement my D3.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I know that in Norway, it's traditional to take cod liver oil in the winter. Is this similar in the UK? They get their Vit D concentrated in the cod liver oil. It's pretty nasty tasting, so maybe people stopped doing this. It was common in my mother's generation but not in mine. My family does take Vit D supplements in winter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbecueMom Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Now I'm going to complain that it's just above freezing temps, which means my house is now warm enough that the heat rarely kicks on. And I'm colder now than I was when it was negative whatever outside. Maybe I'll be less grumpy about it when I see our electric usage graph. Grrrr. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Today, dh decided to rebuild the birdhouse that took a beating in one of the recent strong winds we had. He said: "Don't know how long I will be out there. It's kinda chilly." It's F 55 here...California boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 We have jokingly wondered if anyone is left back in Canada to run the country. ;) For some, it's the same folks year after year - just like their American northern equivalents - a "snowbird" group we hope to join. For others it's destination weddings, basic vacations, and similar - again - just like others in the north. For those we pass on the road with northern license plates and never get to actually meet - who knows? For obvious reasons, we tend to know more about those we interact with at campgrounds, condos, beaches, or wherever. What is known is that Florida and all sorts of other southern destinations are quite popular in the winter. That's the point that had me wondering if there's something internal in our bodies driving so many to want to vacation in a more Vitamin D accessible location when our bodies start to run short of it. A quick google search for just Florida seems to suggest their population goes up 22% in winter with a transient count on one page saying 920,000 temporary residents there in the winter compared to 170,000 in the summer. Then add California, Hawaii, Mexico, the Caribbean, the Southern Hemisphere and anywhere else I've missed that folks might choose to go to in order to recharge their Vitamin D. Not everyone chooses to or can afford to take a southern winter vacation, but plenty do. Is there a biological component pushing that selection? That's my curiosity. I think it's way less complicated. People like to be warm and dislike shoveling snow. If I wanted to increase my vitamin D here, the easiest and least expensive measure would be to spend lots of time outside in the sunshine, which we have here, despite cold temperatures. If the search for vitamin D were a major biological urge, you'd see people engaging in outside activities. Because that is free and accessible to all. Maybe the real biological urge is to be warm? Maybe it has something to do with everyone coming out of Africa and not really evolving to colder temperatures. We don't get used to the cold or evolve to survive in it, we adapt our environment to keep our bodies at a comfortable temperature with clothing and shelter. Even though we live all over the world, we tend to keep our houses between 55 and 75 degrees. That's only a twenty degree difference no matter where we live. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Now I'm going to complain that it's just above freezing temps, which means my house is now warm enough that the heat rarely kicks on. And I'm colder now than I was when it was negative whatever outside. Maybe I'll be less grumpy about it when I see our electric usage graph. Grrrr. Around here we call this "not enough delta." When you feel colder inside because it is not super cold outside and the warm air is not traveling out as quickly, making you feel cooler. We are currently experiencing "not enough delta" as well. However, I'll take that over "the air makes my face hurt" weather that we had up until yesterday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Warm here today, comparatively! But I've also now learned, definitively, that it isn't the cold, it's the gloom. It's overcast and yuck here today and nI want to die. Yesterday was colder but blue skies and I was fine. Now we know. Mama needs a SAD lamp asap. Which seems dumb given I live in Florida. Maybe I just need to move to Arizona or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Well, apparently it's in the 40's in Alaska. They're having one of their warmest winters ever. They just had a bit on the new about them, and they're outside without coats... :glare: Meanwhile, it's often been below 0 F here lately, without windchill. I think on Sat they're expecting a HIGH of 7. It's 'warming up' tomorrow for the Nor'Easter with the hurricane force winds, though. Yay? To the chagrin of this Alaskan we haven't had a real winter in 5 years. Freezing rain on Christmas, almost no snow. National cross country ski races in preparation for the Olymipics held on one little loop because it's the loop where they can make snow. 😠I'm tired of everyone else getting our weather and I'm ready to move somewhere there is winter again. I used to love Alaska but dark with no snow is a bit much. Miles and miles of ski trails with ice and sticks. Brown, empty trees, constant thaws, I'm fed up. I need to move north of the Alaska range or South if the place has elevation or anywhere with snow. Grrrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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