s/o sporting activity as PE vs an EC

[lewelma]

So in the other thread, some people were putting sporting activities on the transcript as PE and others were listing them as and extracurricular. Is there a reason to do one or the other?  There are no requirements for PE where I live, and none at the universities that ds is applying to (although we may add some later). So why take one or the other approach?

 

DS does 3 hours of martial arts a week for 48 weeks a year and 5 hours per week of badminton for 45 weeks a year. Currently I have martial arts listed as PE with 0.5 credits each year in high school. 

 

Thanks,

Ruth in NZ

[EKS]

In my documents I claimed that our homeschool graduation requirements met or exceeded those of the local (highly regarded) public high school.  Since the high school required two credits of PE including health, that's what I listed.  I gave my son a PE credit for his sailing activities.  I did the same with viola--he needed two fine arts credits, so he got one of those for his viola lessons.

 

I had no problem listing these as credits rather than ECs because his passions lay elsewhere, and he had a ton of ECs to list.  If he had been really into sailing or viola--winning competitions or playing in an orchestra or whatever--then I wouldn't have given credits for them.

[KarenNC]

I kept my daughter's aikido out as an extracurricular and just kept a running list of her other physical activities (camping, hiking, ice skating, kickboxing (month of classes to try), swimming, workout dvds, etc) until I got enough for a PE half credit (actually gave a half credit in freshman and junior years). I looked on PE as a way to try out various lifelong activities, while the aikido is something she's done since she was 6 and is part of her leadership for helping with younger students.

Edited October 10, 2017 by KarenNC

[lewelma]

Thanks guys. Interesting approaches.

 

 So what are the strategic reasons you might make a physical activity into PE vs and EC.  How would it help a student if you put it in one location vs the other?

 

 

[Dmmetler]

It likely depends on the application and school. Some have very little space to list EC's, so creating a class for "medieval musical instrument construction and performance" gets it on the liat (and, in this case, got the transcript sent to the musicology faculty, who were dying to get their hands on a kid who had four credits of building medieval stringed instruments!). Even if it had been an EC, it might have been overlooked as to the degree involved-a lot of kids list stuff like that after a few week summer course, not spend their entire adolescence doing it. Even if you write a paragraph, that doesn't mean it is passed on to the department.

 

In others, listing it as a class may get missed entirely-apparently at at least one local college, invitations to try out for their cheer team are based on having cheer listed. Except if you count it as PE at some high schools, it gets listed as "PE-Varsity sport", with nothing to indicate that this is a cheerleader vs a volleyball player. There are lots of ways to get known to a given college, but by far the easiest (and the one that parents at my DD's gym suggest) is making sure that you have a cheer EC beyond school cheer if your school counts it as PE. Go to cheer camp each summer, do a half-year team after school cheer wraps up, coach a youth team...something to get that key word on somewhere.

[8filltheheart]

I would classify it as an EC if it is being used to show commitment to activity outside of academics.

 

I have included PE on my kids' transcripts depending on the state we have lived in and the colleges being applied to. Fwiw, apparently in the state we live in, taking CPR training and getting certified can count as 1/2 of a PE credit. So can first aid. So, by my reading that means those 2 courses alone count as a full PE credit. (Bizarre considering how few hrs it takes to earn those certificates. My kids have taken both in the past month, but no way I would count those 2 classes alone as a full credit or even a 1/2 credit, not even a P/F course like PE. I have to live by my own standards. ;) )

[teachermom2834]

It is required in my state so we have done it without much thought but mine also have played additional sports so they had PE on the transcript and team sports as ECs.

 

On a highly academic transcript and an application bursting with impressive achievements I would just list them as extracurriculars. I don't think PE enhances the transcript in any way but listing them as ECs shows that he has varied interests and isn't just in the books all the time.

 

I cannot imagine PE enhancing a transcript other than trying to make it look like a public school transcript or if it is required. I wouldn't fool with it otherwise.

[Hilltopmom]

It’s required to graduate in our state, so I needed it on the transcript we submit to the public school anyways. I used the same transcript for college applications & kids in our public schools will have it on there too- for 2 credits in high school with a grade.

[Guest]

PE is a gen ed, and indicates seat time.

ECs indicates greater time and a level of accomplishment beyond a gen ed class. A varsity sport or a certain level of club sport is an EC, and usually involves at least 12 hrs per week practice here.

 

same in music...the youth orchestra that meets on the weekend is an ec, and is a much  higher level of accomplishment than gen ed grade level band at one's high school.

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[regentrude]

I would list physical activity as PE unless the student is an athlete who demonstrates sustained passion and engagement that goes beyond the level of a generic class, or if there is nothing else to list for EC.

PE is not required for most colleges. I listed PE as an ungraded elective to demonstrate a well rounded education, but listed their specialty sport (horseback riding for DD, judo for DS - they each spent 10+ hours per week) as extracurricular.

ETA: Listing an activity as an extracurricular makes it stand out. A PE credit on the transcript is unremarkable.

Edited October 10, 2017 by regentrude

[Alessandra]

Four years of PE is required by our state for high school graduation. (This includes one quarter of Family Life or Drivers Ed each year.) There has been discussion in several districts about allowing students who do a sport be exempt from PE during the sports season. Arguments in favor of exemption are that sports provide many more hours of activity than PE and, secondly, that students in sports need free time for homework. Arguments against exempting are that PE provides a variety of physical activities, more than is found in any one sport. Some districts have decided to exempt, some not.

 

This doesnt answer OP's question, just including to give a perspective.

[Guest]

Four years of PE is required by our state for high school graduation. (This includes one quarter of Family Life or Drivers Ed each year.) There has been discussion in several districts about allowing students who do a sport be exempt from PE during the sports season. Arguments in favor of exemption are that sports provide many more hours of activity than PE and, secondly, that students in sports need free time for homework. Arguments against exempting are that PE provides a variety of physical activities, more than is found in any one sport. Some districts have decided to exempt, some not.

 

This doesnt answer OP's question, just including to give a perspective.

 

The argument against here is mainly that PE is introducing and teaching lifetime skills so that they can stay fit at low cost using the resources likely found in the community.  Folks won't likely be playing tackle football after college, but they can walk, run, swim, play volleyball, tennis etc at the parks and in community events.

 

[Guest]

I'll probably get blasted for this, but this is what I did:

 

One of my sons played competitive football. I listed football as a PE credit, counting the Mon/Tue/Thu practices as the PE class. But I also listed the leadership aspect and the state championship games as EC's.

 

Yes, I double-dipped. I'm okay with that.

[theelfqueen]

I count half a credit of PE each year and will also count BJJ/MMA, Philmont etc as EC. It's not double dipped, it's divided.

 

My oldest son was in PS. His PE requirements were met by his Varsity Wrestling, he also got to list Varsity Wrestling and Captain of the team on his applications as EC.

 

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[wapiti]

My two inexperienced cents:  I vote for EC, but maybe it depends on the picture you are trying to present.  The colleges he is applying to do not care about PE.  Accordingly, as PE credits, these activities would be invisible, i.e., they would not add value to the app.  Putting these activities as ECs makes them more noticeable.  Because they are a different angle from his math and music ECs, they may add dimension to the big picture of him.

 

On the other hand, if he already has too many ECs, maybe you'd want to avoid a jack-of-all-trades impression.  But, if MIT wants to know who he his and how he likes to spend his time, I think that points to EC.  A collective 8 hrs per week is a lot of time.  Or, split the difference - if one has great importance to him, list that as an EC, and use the other for PE credit.  (I'd be thinking about what the activity shows about him, how has he grown from it and could he wax on about it in an interview or essay, has he had this level of involvement throughout high school, etc.)

Edited October 10, 2017 by wapiti

[Alessandra]

The argument against here is mainly that PE is introducing and teaching lifetime skills so that they can stay fit at low cost using the resources likely found in the community. Folks won't likely be playing tackle football after college, but they can walk, run, swim, play volleyball, tennis etc at the parks and in community events.

 

Good point, that may also be part of the argument here too.

 

As long as we're on the subject.... I wish more resources were devoted to everyday fitness for everybody, instead of using $$$ for football and other team sports that serve mainly those who make the cut.

[Corraleno]

My two inexperienced cents:  I vote for EC, but maybe it depends on the picture you are trying to present.  The colleges he is applying to do not care about PE.  Accordingly, as PE credits, these activities would be invisible, i.e., they would not add value to the app.  Putting these activities as ECs makes them more noticeable.  Because they are a different angle from his math and music ECs, they may add dimension to the big picture of him.

 

This. PE credits add nothing to the transcript; colleges simply do not care about PE. I would list both sports as ECs. There are 10 slots for ECs on the Common App, and you want some things in there that show he has a life outside of math, so a couple of sports plus his music add significant value to the EC list, while adding zero value to the transcript (IMO).

[chiguirre]

Yes, I double-dipped. I'm okay with that.

 

You and every varsity athlete in Texas. Schools in my area count sports participation in lieu of PE. They'll even accept a form from martial arts or ballet or whatever. 

 

 

Another option for Americans (but not for OP, sorry) is to use the CC classes for PE credit. Some require PE as part of their core and the classes can be really cool. My local CC offers scuba diving certification, ballet, tennis, TKD, aerobics and more. Some only cost the fees for one credit for DE, some are more for obvious reasons but all are a relatively inexpensive way to try a new sport.

[lewelma]

Thanks guys!  Easy to fix.  He doesn't need more than 10 slots (haha!). He has weekly ECs of music (4hr), badminton (5hr), and martial arts (3hr), and tutoring (4hr).  If they want more than that, then they can find a different student!

 

Question about summer activities: 2 universities have a question about what you did over the summer (with dates), and ds is having a hard time answering this question.  He takes both the NZ and the American Summer - 6 weeks each.  But there is just so much happening during the summers, the IMO camp and event, WOOT, travel to visit family in USA, Christmas, etc.  What exactly are they looking for in the "what did you do in the summer" question.  He has nothing holistic like a job, just weeks here and there punctuated by relaxing. Plus the dates look really weird!

Edited October 10, 2017 by lewelma

[regentrude]

Question about summer activities: 2 universities have a question about what you did over the summer (with dates), and ds is having a hard time answering this question.  He takes both the NZ and the American Summer - 6 weeks each.  But there is just so much happening during the summers, the IMO camp and event, WOOT, travel to visit family in USA, Christmas, etc.  What exactly are they looking for in the "what did you do in the summer" question.  He has nothing holistic like a job, just weeks here and there punctuated by relaxing. Plus the dates look really weird!

 

My guess is colleges want to see that the student is doing something, not just sitting playing video games.

Travel is great, IMO + WOOT are great.

You do not need to have activities that fill the entire summer. 

 

If I recall correctly, DD listed family travel as her summer activities. Backpcking/climbing + trips to visit family in Germany. She did not have any summer classwork or jobs. 

[chiguirre]

The IMO camp and WOOT are what they're looking for. They'll do a double take on December and January summer dates, then they'll remember your ds is from New Zealand and that will remind him that he would add diversity to their class. You'll be fine!!!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Thanks guys!  Easy to fix.  He doesn't need more than 10 slots (haha!). He has weekly ECs of music (4hr), badminton (5hr), and martial arts (3hr), and tutoring (4hr).  If they want more than that, then they can find a different student!

 

 

Hear, hear!  :cheers2:

[lewelma]

So different question, but I don't want to start a new thread. This is pretty picky, but I still have to make a choice... We just got ds's AoPS transcript and it has some A+ grades on it. I was just doing As. Would it be appropriate to put A+ on his transcript because that was the grade on an external transcript? or does that make it look like his other classes weren't done at the A+ level, which I'm not sure is true?

[regentrude]

So different question, but I don't want to start a new thread. This is pretty picky, but I still have to make a choice... We just got ds's AoPS transcript and it has some A+ grades on it. I was just doing As. Would it be appropriate to put A+ on his transcript because that was the grade on an external transcript? or does that make it look like his other classes weren't done at the A+ level, which I'm not sure is true?

 

I would put a note in the "notes" section of the transcript and explain that AoPS grades are reported as given by the provide. If the grading scale you provide on the transcript shows that you only give A's, that would make it quite clear.

[Corraleno]

DS had all A+ grades in his Lukeion classes, and I included those. There's a specific section in the Common App where it asks you to explain the grading system, and I added a note saying that I did not give +/- grades in home classes, but included them where that was the grade provided by an outside teacher. I did not give any additional weight or credit for A+ vs A.

[lewelma]

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Edited October 11, 2017 by lewelma

[Seasider]

PE is a gen ed, and indicates seat time.

ECs indicates greater time and a level of accomplishment beyond a gen ed class. A varsity sport or a certain level of club sport is an EC, and usually involves at least 12 hrs per week practice here.

 

same in music...the youth orchestra that meets on the weekend is an ec, and is a much higher level of accomplishment than gen ed grade level band at one's high school.

This is how I view it. Anything I gave an academic credit for included an academic component. For those I used as PE credits, I administered a written test on the rules and had my student write a paper on the history of the game, in addition to practice and playing time.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Our state requires PE for public high schools, but students in varsity sports can use that as their PE in Junior and Senior year I believe. So I followed that standard.