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Is the world really more dangerous for kids now, or is that just perception?


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My mother is constantly going on about how incredibly dangerous the world is these days, that anyone who allowed their child to walk anywhere alone is insane, etc etc etc. Personally, I feel it really depends on the area a person lives in, and maturity of the child.

 

But I'm curious, and I know this has come up in subthreads here. Do you think the world really is more dangerous for children living in the U.S. than it was when we were kids? Or is that just the perception that we have? Are there any actual statistics on crimes against children 40 years ago versus today?

 

Michelle T

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more dangerous? maybe in inner city areas, and mostly just due to sheer numbers. But on a statistical level? no. i don't believe *on the whole* it is MORE dangerous. But we ARE finding out about more of those crimes. At a faster rate.

 

The internet has facilitated an incredibly fast sharing of information: from events happening as we speak, to compiling and sharing of records and statistics, to researching archived records for perusal by anyone.

 

I think our *knowledge* about crime has increased, but the crime itself --that's absolutely debatable. In some areas I'm sure it has. In others it's probably safer :-)

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I believe that the world has become more dangerous than in the past. People know that the consequences to their actions are minimal. For instance look at the jail system you get half the time off for good behavior and then more time off due to overcrowding. (That is if your attorney didnt find some loop hole and get you off completely.) When my son went to school I can't tell you how many times a parent said, "Kids will be kids," or "Thats boys for you." Grrr.... Society is just more accepting of bad behavior. I live in South Florida and there has been a housing boom over the past 5 years in the area I live outside of. I was speaking with a cop I know and he told me that the rate of violent crime has risen significantly over the past years. You might argue more people more crime but it really doesn't matter beause the fact is it's still there. The area I live in is still pretty rural however it is quickly becoming more populated as farmers are selling their fields to housing developements. I can't stand where I live anymore people are just rude. My husband and I have been looking to move elsewhere but I think as the United States becomes increasingly lax on crime the worse off it is going to get for everybody.

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I don't know about statistics but I know that I don't remember seeing major violence in schools when I was growing up. The worst kind of fight I saw was a fist fight in the hallway. My dd15 has seen knives in fights in middle school. In a neighboring county, there were 2 school shootings at the same high school this past week. Wow. It leaves me speechless.

 

Have you seen the National S*x Offender Registry online? You put in your address and it will show you the residences and work places of known s*x offenders. I don't know the square mile area they use but when I put in my address I see 31 offenders and 29 non-mappable offenders and that doesn't even include the ones not registered. It's hard to think I live in a safe area when I see those numbers. I kind of miss the safe feeling I had when I was ignorant of the numbers but I'm probably better off with the knowledge.

 

I've lived with a house alarm system for 13 years now. It's a necessity, not a luxury IMHO. When we moved into this house almost 3 years ago, for example, the first thing we had done was install an alarm system with monthly monitoring. I can't imagine living without one now.

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I agree with Peek. Urban issues have, IMO, increased. The availabilty of addictive drugs has fueled a lot of related to drug crime (not limited to the actual buying and selling).

 

I know in the early days of AA, for example, assisting down and out newcomers often included having them to your home. This is not now a prudent choice (and in many cases, I will meet new members only in public places).

 

In most cases, though, I think our perception has been skewed by the hyperfocus we have on the news.

 

Incidents of domestic violence have been more reported; but I don't believe they've increased.

 

Especially:

Have you seen the National S*x Offender Registry online? You put in your address and it will show you the residences and work places of known s*x offenders. I don't know the square mile area they use but when I put in my address I see 31 offenders and 29 non-mappable offenders and that doesn't even include the ones not registered. It's hard to think I live in a safe area when I see those numbers. I kind of miss the safe feeling I had when I was ignorant of the numbers but I'm probably better off with the knowledge.

 

This, IMO, is not a telling sign of the times except that sex crimes are more reported and tracked. The real info is you need to worry more about your kids at Thanksgiving, family birthdays, in Youth Group than playing in front of your house.

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I have heard that there were a lot of things that used to go on that never were reported, and some that weren't even considered crimes once upon a time.... So I think that changing perceptions and more rights for children have contributed toward us looking at various sorts of crimes differently than years ago. But I do also think that growth in population density for certain areas may contribute to more crime in those areas, and also more crime toward children. I believe that gang violence is something that is a product of urban environments that has escalated since mid-last century. I think drug related violence in youth has also escalated during that same time frame.

 

Regena

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I tend to be less of an alarmist but I have to agree that several developments over the last (how many?) years have led to more problems and hence more danger to children.

 

I won't reiterate some that have already mentioned (like drug related crimes and school violence) but the internet has created a haven for child molesters and somewhat of a breeding ground for people that find they have just "happened upon it" and become ensnared in it... which for some will lead to carrying out their fantasies on real live innocent children.

 

So I'd say that I think child molestation is probably a larger problem than it once was (please don't think I'm saying it was "hardly a problem" during certain buttoned down generations... it was still definitely a problem). With more availability, more opportunity to nurture these things in private, really poorly carried out justice (I for one, would like to see convicted sex offenders hung by their genitals for how they destroy lives... but I'm probably in the minority there) :eek: ... and a handful of other things have led to a less safe society for children. Do I think there have always been pervs a plenty? Yes, for sure.

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It's a little bit of everything--mainly, though, information has increased due to the advent and accessibility of computers/tvs/news/etc.

 

I don't think it's necessarily MORE dangerous today, there has definitly been a shift in what was once considered safe as compared to what isn't now.

 

As I said in the other thread, I am so not worried about the sex offender registry or even sex offenders because I believe that system is flawed due to its blanket labeling system. I don't think we have that many true sex offenders (towards children, actual pedophiles) as the system says. And like Joanne said, you should be worrying more about your family and circle of friends than that system.

 

I don't have a security system, but I have a pit bull. :) No one is getting in this house that I don't want. That's all I need.

 

I just think that we've got more available to us than we did then, and I also believe that these things occurred then, it was just not "talked about" as much as it is now.

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I think it depends on where you are more than anything.

 

I grew up in inner city Los Angeles and later in Van Nuys. Van Nuys high school had knife fights, drive by shootings, drugs, gangs, and lots more while I was there. I graduated in 1989. Was it safe? No way. Did I stay safe? Yes. Because I knew how to avoid the situations that were most dangerous. I survived, but that is quite literally all I did.

 

I currently live in suburban Phoenix, Arizona in a land of cookie cutter, look alike houses. Is it safer? Absolutely! Is it safe? No.

 

I don't know if the world is safer everywhere. I do know that I am choosing to live in a place that is safer than I grew up. I don't know what Van Nuys is like now, I can't go back. It brings back too many bad memories. I have a hard time with large urban areas of any kind.

 

Jenne in AZ

(dd9, ds7, ds3, newbie in September)

(Sprog and Mouse)

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Those loopholes are otherwise known as our constitutional rights. We all have the (U.S.) constitutional right to have every single element of a crime proved by the government beyond a reasonable doubt, before any of us is convicted of that crime.

 

Also, very few criminal defendants who are factually guilty are found to be not guilty by a jury.

 

Most prosecutors win over 90% of their cases. Ergo, the defense loses.

 

(That is if your attorney didnt find some loop hole and get you off completely.)
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I think human life isn't as valued as it once was. I think more people are on drugs that really alter their senses in drastic ways (meth, for example). I think a sense of community has been lost and people don't watch out for each other like they would have years ago.

 

I don't think, necessarily, that there is a greater chance that my kids will be kidnapped or s*xually assaulted than when I was a kid, although as kids are exposed to s*x more easily and more often (think of what a kid can find online with a few clicks) I think that s*xual offenders are likely to start out committing crimes younger, but I don't know that this leads to an increased risk for my boys.

 

I do think there is a slightly greater chance that they will be a victim of a crime. There have always been murders and rapes, but when I was growing up people didn't go into malls, churches, or schools and start shooting. Kids' fights were limited to fists, but now there are guns or knives often involved. It seems that overall, the level of violence is escalating and I think that puts us all at an increased risk. While a lot of crime is still targeted (I'm going to kill them because they did XYZ to me), there is an increase of random or making-a-point crimes. Even if the chance isn't that great that my kids will be a victim of one of the random crimes, it's still a greater risk than 40 years ago.

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I was just about to type that human life is valued so much more these days.

 

I think what's changed is that a few generations ago people didn't expect all their children to achieve adulthood. Now, since just about all of them can barring an accident or incident, we're shocked about every scrap of violence.

 

Don't get me wrong - that's a good thing. But I think it makes us feel that things have gotten more dangerous. (Over the past 100 years)

 

I'm really fighting my instinct to over-protect my kids these days. I have been trained to be so scared of people. And in a related way I've been trained to be scared of nature, outside, and natural things, too. I feel like slowly but surely we're imprisoning ourselves, which is what I was trying to say on the kiddie exercise equipment thread, too - we're hemming ourselves in with all our rules and fears. I'm trying so hard to fight back on that.

 

We need a balance, mostly. People like us who are home and are with our kids need to do what we can (within reason) to re-form that presence of adults on the street and community that used to be there. We need to make an effort to get to know our neighbors. Will we be rebuffed? Will things get uncomfortable? Yes. And first and foremost we all have to listen to our instincts about what's possible. But we need to keep trying. I think it's worth fighting back against this change in whatever ways we can.

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I believe the US is more dangerous now than when I was a child, and I also believe we hear more about the dangers than we did previously.

 

> I think that easier access to highly addictive drugs fuels part of the problem.

 

> The lack of any real punishment for crimes concerns me, as well. For example, I had a child in my class that broke another kid's arm out of anger on a field trip (and he wasn't even mad at the child whose arm he broke). Since the child was on an IEP for a learning disability, the school had its hands tied when it came to consequences. The child was out of school for only three days. I believe someone has already shared the information regarding jail sentencing and imprisonment. Little rant: This infuriates me - inmates don't even serve out the time they've been sentenced. I can't believe all the perks prisons have - cable tv, extensive libraries, workout rooms - have you seen some of those shows on TV about life in prison? I couldn't believe all the amenities allowed - more than we provide our armed services! To sum up, I'm mad that they don't serve their time and then I'm mad because it looks way too comfy. End rant.

 

> It's also my opinion that the globalization of our world has allowed for some new dangers (lead paint from China - where as years ago, the toy wouldn't even be available in the US; tainted food from other countries, etc.).

 

On the flip side, I believe that we have made some dangers less dangerous. Cars are built to be safer, including airbags and seatbelts. Riding bikes with a helmet is standard practice (at least in my area, and for sure in my home!). Cell phones allow us to seek out help when needed. Heavy furniture is bolted to the walls, to prevent death from toddlers climbing on them. Fire extinguishers - we never had a fire extinguisher when I was growing up, but we have three in our home now.

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<<<<I grew up in inner city Los Angeles and later in Van Nuys. Van Nuys high school had knife fights, drive by shootings, drugs, gangs, and lots more while I was there. I graduated in 1989. >>>

 

Hey, Jenne, I went to Grant High, also in Van Nuys! I graduated in 1981. I lived in Sherman Oaks for quite a few years as a kid. Now I'm up in Santa Clarita.

Michelle T

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It is sometimes a very small world. :) I haven't met (even by computer) anyone from Van Nuys in a long time.

 

Very cool!

 

I took Trig at Grant one summer! I thought it looked pretty much like Van Nuys High, except the Community College was next door to you guys and we had a Tommy's within walking distance of school. Great chili burgers!

 

Jenne in AZ

(dd9, ds7, ds3, newbie in September)

(Sprog and Mouse)

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I'm the minority on this one.

 

I firmly and concretely believe the world is more dangerous today than when I was a say 5 or 6 yrso. Can all those grandmothers and great grandmothers just be so senile that they are exaggerating?

 

Of course I believe there has always been violence and crime. But nothing like we see today involving children. We have had regional crime spikes (gang violence in the eighties etc.) but I'm speaking specifically about the safety of our children, as the OP mentioned. And it's not just Urban.

 

The advent of the internet and 24 news cycles isn't the reason we hear about these cases. I have a hard time believing heinous crimes against children wouldn't have made the newspapers in the 50s, 60s, or 70s.

 

And, Nancypants, I think you are on to one of the causes, although it will never be possible to directly correlate any source. The value of human life, the lack of personal interface, and the general lessening of community interaction are all major players.

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This, IMO, is not a telling sign of the times except that sex crimes are more reported and tracked. The real info is you need to worry more about your kids at Thanksgiving, family birthdays, in Youth Group than playing in front of your house.

 

I didn't mean to imply that there are more occurrences then there were in the past. I was talking about my perception of safe and unsafe. Until I saw those numbers, I was ignorant of possible dangers nearby. I would have been totally okay with my kids staying home alone for an hour or so, or let them ride bikes or scooters up and down the street. The numbers, however, brought a new reality to my mind. I'm surprised I never thought about it until I actually saw the numbers on that website though. And I even had a personal occurrence when I was a preteen that I never told my mother about. If I had told her, she probably wouldn't have let me go out alone anymore. But I kept it a secret because the man warned me.

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It seems almost every day on the news we hear of another shooting at a school, mall, office or restaurant. It seems that nowadays when people get angry or depressed, they have no problem blowing away a lot of people before doing away with themselves. I don't remember seeing this growing up, and we always watched the news.

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more dangerous? maybe in inner city areas, and mostly just due to sheer numbers. But on a statistical level? no. i don't believe *on the whole* it is MORE dangerous. But we ARE finding out about more of those crimes. At a faster rate.

 

The internet has facilitated an incredibly fast sharing of information: from events happening as we speak, to compiling and sharing of records and statistics, to researching archived records for perusal by anyone.

 

I think our *knowledge* about crime has increased, but the crime itself --that's absolutely debatable. In some areas I'm sure it has. In others it's probably safer :-)

 

Peek a Boo has basically said what I would have said. I think some crime has increased, but much of it is simply perception and increased reporting. Some crimes weren't always reported due to shame, particularly s*xu*l assault. While I believe this still happens, I think it's reported a lot more often now.

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ONe thing I have noticed around here that makes the neighborhood less safe is that it is more deserted. Parents work until dinnertime, the kids that are home have homework. There is no one out on schooldays. They exist cause I see them on holidays and weekends but they are not around on schoolnights. Most of the kids around here also play in the little leagues and other organized sports that occupy a lot of time.

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I agree with the poster who said that human life has been devalued. That is a factor.

 

I also agree that perception is involved to a certain extent... the newscast when from 30 min a day to almost 2-3 hours. They fill up the extra time with sensational stories of awful things that people would have never discussed so openly a long time ago. So you hear about it more now.

 

But I did hear/read recently that the access to porn and other such things, especially on the internet, is turning more to crime. Men, especially, who might have restrained themselves in the past are being tempted and lured beyond their breaking point. Everything's just so easy to get at, and that has supposedly led to an increase in certain violent crimes.

 

Also, we certainly didn't have the kind of terrorists we have today. That's a new threat, and it's on our own soil now. So that is real, not just perceived.

 

Interesting to think about!

 

Robin

(who still remembers the Houston Mass Murders of the early 70s... at the time it was the worst serial killing spree reported in the US... I know two people who lost a brother/good friend... I think the media has sensationalized serial killers ever since, and I think the more they sensationalize it, the more these creeps kill to gain noteriety)

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actually, battlemaiden, I absolutely believe a lot of crimes made the news back then too --but w/ the fast global spread of information, more of us know about things happening in other areas too.

 

How many of us have heard about kids being snatched from their front yards....but somewhere else in the country? For a lot of the things we hear about, they probably wouldn't have made the local newspaper 50 years ago, or they wouldn't be "severe enough" to make the little bit of national news most Americans bothered watching. Also-- as more people travel a lot, our little neighborhoods have gotten bigger --we pay more attention to what's going on 30 miles away cuz some of us drive that distance easily.

 

I also agree that a lot of the crime is more apt to be reported these days. there's still a lot of people that won't tho. :(

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I look at our local police blotter (published in our small city paper) and 99% of crimes here are car-prowl/ car break-ins. I am not super worried about someone snatching them off the street. But having said that, I have drilled and practiced even, what to do if someone asks you to help them find their puppy, or to take candy, or to come close to the car for any reason. I know 100% of my immediate neighbors and a good portion of those who are a little farther out, and I am comfortable with my kids talking to them in the street. But my kids are not allowed to go in anyone's home (not even my neighbor who has baby-sat them) without me knowing and approving it first. My kids have pushed this one. Just the other day my neighbor (a SAHM with two little ones) called me to say that my dd6 (who had had permission to play out in the front yard for 20 min.) had come over there to play. I had her send her home and my dd was grounded to her room for the rest of playtime. I wasn't worried about my neighbor but I need 100% compliance on the visiting rule.

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I don't know if there are more criminals or if their crimes are really more violent, but I do know that the loss of a sense of community within neighborhoods has made it less safe to send children out to play. When I was a kid all the parents were watching out for all the kids. Now the parents are either not home or watching TV. They are not looking out the kitchen window to see what the neighborhood kids are doing. Even when I lived in Aurora, Ill on a street that was on its way down, I knew which neighbors' houses to go to if I were in trouble.

 

I also knew never to play on the wooded lot, a rule which I broke once and came close to suffer some devastating consequences when I met up with one of the men who hung out in that area. But I digress.

 

When I lived in Poplar Bluff on a dead end gravel road, we thought all the parents were a bunch of nosy busy bodies!! We could not throw a rock, sneak a cigarette or cuss without the news getting home to our parents before we did! But we were safe!!

 

I don't let my children stray further then our next door neighbors, and their kids only come here. The world may not be more dangerous, but it is different.

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This question intrigues me. So surrounded we are by the idea that we need to be careful, be wary, to distrust strangers. Not that those are specifically bad things, in and of themselves. Only when the sum total creates a fearful existence. But, I was really hoping to put some hard data to work on this. Alas, I'm not willing to turn it into a real research project, so I've only done my searching online, and that may not have been in the right places. The US stats found here would have us believe that the crime rate has soared in the past 50 years, that we should, as the media tout, be concerned about every neighbor and neighborhood. But, another perspective indicates that crime rates aren't so terribly different than where they were in the mid-60's.

 

Interestingly, I don't think we are different for thinking that our rates of crime have skyrocketed, that our youth have degenerated, and that the reason lies in the decline of the family. This study, though based in Europe and using data from well over one hundred years ago, has a frighteningly familiar portrayal of public perception towards crime.

 

So, yes. I think it's more about perception. More about availability of information, both culturally and technologically, which then leads to misconception.

 

Thanks for inspiring me to think about this topic.

 

Doran

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I was just about to type that human life is valued so much more these days.

 

I think what's changed is that a few generations ago people didn't expect all their children to achieve adulthood. Now, since just about all of them can barring an accident or incident, we're shocked about every scrap of violence.

 

Don't get me wrong - that's a good thing. But I think it makes us feel that things have gotten more dangerous. (Over the past 100 years)

 

I'm really fighting my instinct to over-protect my kids these days. I have been trained to be so scared of people. And in a related way I've been trained to be scared of nature, outside, and natural things, too. I feel like slowly but surely we're imprisoning ourselves, which is what I was trying to say on the kiddie exercise equipment thread, too - we're hemming ourselves in with all our rules and fears. I'm trying so hard to fight back on that.

 

We need a balance, mostly. People like us who are home and are with our kids need to do what we can (within reason) to re-form that presence of adults on the street and community that used to be there. We need to make an effort to get to know our neighbors. Will we be rebuffed? Will things get uncomfortable? Yes. And first and foremost we all have to listen to our instincts about what's possible. But we need to keep trying. I think it's worth fighting back against this change in whatever ways we can.

 

Reading about the Industrial Revolution this year in history, and the horrid conditions people everywhere just had to accept, and the complete callousness.... I mean, I just can't fathom people starving in the streets. I can't fathom children working for such long hours in such dangerous, dirty places.

 

But, I do think I am much more cautious with my kids than my mother was ~ and for good reason.

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Interestingly, I don't think we are different for thinking that our rates of crime have skyrocketed, that our youth have degenerated, and that the reason lies in the decline of the family. This study, though based in Europe and using data from well over one hundred years ago, has a frighteningly familiar portrayal of public perception towards crime.

 

So, yes. I think it's more about perception. More about availability of information, both culturally and technologically, which then leads to misconception.

 

Thanks for inspiring me to think about this topic.

 

Doran

 

Interesting stats, Doran. I'd also like to add that although in sheer numbers, crimes seemed to have increased, the population has increased at a faster rate. So although there may seem to be an increase in crime over a certain period, the chance of being victimized by crime is lower because a smaller percentage of the population is affected.

 

Another thing that contributes to our perception of crime stats is our need to control everything nowdays. 40 or 50 years ago I think parents accepted a certain amount of risk that goes along with raising children. For better or worse, they didn't worry about abductions, car accidents, broken arms, etc because these things were just not on the radar. Now we are quicker to blame or to take the blame when things like bumps and bruises, birth accidents, fires, etc happen. Rather than seeing things as bad luck, we feel the need to control everything and want to have someone to blame (even ourselves) when things go wrong. No amount of risk is seen as acceptable any longer. So when someone allows their child to climb a tree or ride around the neighborhood alone, they can be charged with neglect when an accident happens.

 

I think there are a lot of crimes that are reported on today that weren't even convicted years ago. Spousal or child abuse was considered a family issue. Sexual abuse of children was very often not caught because no one believed the children. Nowdays the pendulum has swung far (sometimes too far) in teh other direction where a whiff friendliness can be misconstrued.

 

Lastly, if you look at old newspapers, there were some pretty horrific crimes commited on a regular basis. But the horrific crime that was commited in Kansas generally wasn't reported on in Tennessee. Now we hear about everything that happens everywhere...usually in a breathless report filled with sensationalistic adjectives. That coupled with the fact that younger and younger children seem to be involved in the crimes committed (which is worth its own discussion) contributes to the perception that our world is becoming coarser.

 

Barb

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Barb, I'm pretty sure those statistics take into consideration population... they are rates based on occurrences per 100,00.

 

I grew up in the 60s, so yeah... it seems a lot worse today. Interesting how violent crime peaked in the early 90's though, isn't it?

 

You make a very good point about risk acceptance and non reporting.

 

 

Robin

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I do agree with those that say there are some things not looked at as crime are these days and that may make a difference. Looking strictly at those things that were (theft, murder), there is an increase so it wouldn't surprise me if the other things less reported rose as well. The prison population alone has grown a shocking amount, though one could suggest some of that is due to crimes related to drugs. I would be curious to see the stats with that taken out of it since it wasn't the same issue 40 years ago that it is today.

 

Levels of danger certainly do fluctuate. It is more dangerous to live in the US than in Japan, for example, when looking at crime. Crime is not the same in all populations so there is no reason to believe it couldn't have increased in our society dramatically. We are not the same culture as Japan any more than we are the same culture we were in the 50s. In fact, high media coverage alone can increase it with the copy cat effect. We've certainly seen that over the years with mass shootings. The drama not only doesn't help with over-inflated perception, where that is the case, but it also doesn't help the crime rate much.

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Ok. I woke up at 4 am this morning with insomnia due partly to this thread (partly to a wiggly Springer Spaniel who came very close to being throttled!) I seem to let my kids have a lot more lee-way than many on this board. Am I being a foolish mother? Am I negligent? My two (ds10 and dd6) are just coming back from the park 1 block away. My ds10 is supervising crossing the one and only street (not much traffic). They have a two way radio and I've talked to them about a dozen times in the last 40 min. (the time they were gone). They had a blast playing at the park and having a snack. I had a blast eating my snack alone and playing on the WTM board. My ds10 did say that one man did approach them and talked to them about if they wanted a rabbit (and no, he did not try to lure them away to see the "rabbit".) They said, no, he went away.

 

I needed some alone time badly. My kids needed some play time. It seemed like a win-win here but I wonder. I feel badly that my letting my kitty out last month led to her being probably eaten by a coyote. It would be much worse if something happened to my kids. I'm trying to make wise choices here. My ds10 is quite responsible and looks after his sister. We have the radios. It is only one block (but one block's distance is still out of sight and far enough away that it would take me approx. 5 min. to get there). Any reassurance? warnings?

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