Neighbor with pit bull-WWYD?

[mykidsrmyjoy]

We have owned pit bulls and I agree they are and can be very sweet dogs. However, I am leery of ANY unattended dog off of a leash especially an unfamiliar one on my property. Dogs are territorial and anything with a mouth can bite. They can develop a pack mentality when in groups of two or more, though a single dog can bite just as easily. Just recently two dogs killed a woman in our neighborhood. http://kfor.com/2017/04/06/police-shoot-two-dogs-after-reported-vicious-dog-attack-in-n-w-oklahoma-city/

http://kfor.com/2017/05/11/owner-of-dogs-in-custody-following-oklahoma-city-womans-mauling-death/ My children were playing with those same dogs the day before and they were sweet as can be.

That is so terrible! So thankful your children are ok, but how awful for that elderly lady and her family.

[Bluegoat]

Are straying dangerous dogs normally an issue with your area?  I don't take anything on my walks with five kids.  We might occasionally see a wandering dog, but not enough to make a weapon make sense!

 

A Bb gun would probably just make a dog mad.

[Pawz4me]

What would your suggestion for defense be for a mom out on a walk with five small children? Not trying to be snarky, I'm really wanting suggestions.

 

A walking stick, a golf umbrella or a folding umbrella that pops open at the push of a button are common defense items, as are air horns and whistles. Most importantly IMO is teaching your kids how to be safe around dogs, and that includes NOT running from one but to "be a tree."

 

I agree that a BB gun is likely a very bad idea. It's pretty darn hard to hit a rapidly moving dog, especially if it's headed straight towards you and so is presenting a narrow target. And unlike an air horn or a whistle, BB guns don't even make  enough noise to startle a dog. FWIW the benefit of an umbrella is two-fold -- opening one will generally startle a dog because it's not something they're used to, and it can be used as a shield. Granted it's not a sturdy shield, but most dogs don't understand that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

What would your suggestion for defense be for a mom out on a walk with five small children? Not trying to be snarky, I'm really wanting suggestions.

 

I used to take a big stick.  NOT to hit the dog with.  I would hit the ground with it and would yell NO!  or SIT! and STAY!.  As far as I know, one big german shepherd is still sitting and staying years later. . . .   :)  (IOW. . . I didn't run from him but I slowly backed away and went on another street and didn't stay around to see how long he would obey me.) 

[Pawz4me]

I usually say "GO!" as loudly and firmly as I can while pointing back the way the dog came. I figure many dogs understand "Go" and standing my ground and speaking loudly and firmly makes my physically small self seem as bada$$ as possible. ;) So far it's worked every time. Probably helps that I've never truly been afraid (which certainly could be debated whether it's stupid or brave but . . .  it just is what it is.). It helps a little to keep in mind that most dog aggression is believed to be fear based. Contrary to what many people believe, confident dogs don't normally feel the need to put on aggressive displays for non-threatening people.

[zoobie]

BB gun is a bad idea because it wouldn't stop a large dog in attack mode unless you had crazy good aim and got it just in the right spot. You'd be more likely to piss it off or shoot one of your kids.

[Anne in CA]

A walking stick, a golf umbrella or a folding umbrella that pops open at the push of a button are common defense items, as are air horns and whistles. Most importantly IMO is teaching your kids how to be safe around dogs, and that includes NOT running from one but to "be a tree."

 

I agree that a BB gun is likely a very bad idea. It's pretty darn hard to hit a rapidly moving dog, especially if it's headed straight towards you and so is presenting a narrow target. And unlike an air horn or a whistle, BB guns don't even make  enough noise to startle a dog. FWIW the benefit of an umbrella is two-fold -- opening one will generally startle a dog because it's not something they're used to, and it can be used as a shield. Granted it's not a sturdy shield, but most dogs don't understand that.

None of those things will cause a pitt to let go of something they have a hold of. Wasp spray maybe... but once a pitt has a hold on something they don't ever let go and their jaws are like iron. 

[Katy]

This is what my husband wants to tell her, but I really want to resolve this without creating enemies, if at all possible. But at the same time, it is very frustrating that people will keep these potentially dangerous animals and then allow them to roam around.

My husband and some of the children were riding our golf cart the other day when a different dog in the neighborhood lunged and growled at them. He is really wanting to get me a small BB pistol to keep on hand for dogs like that, but I just really dislike guns. I wish people would keep their dogs contained!!!

 

I am probably more harsh than most, but I grew up with a dad who was a chief of police. IME any action other than threatening the life of the dog will be ignored.  People who fear you will do exactly what you said will probably call the police, find out you are legally in the right, and have the dispatcher lecture them about the finer points of the law.

 

I have seen more than one neighborhood child get attacked by a roaming dog (not our kids) AND having had one of our dogs get attacked by a roaming dog (our dog was on a leash in our yard that was being held by a child).  In every case, the owner had been warned/asked politely many times to keep the dog on leash.  In one case, the dog that attacked our dog had also bitten 3 children previously and the owner STILL didn't leash or fence her dog, despite being warned by animal control that one more incident of roaming would result in the dog being seized and put down.

 

I'm not saying YOU should be the one to make that threat.  Have your DH go over there and talk to her.  It might be sexist, but somehow people tend to take threats by men trying to protect their families much more seriously than they do women.

[Pawz4me]

None of those things will cause a pitt to let go of something they have a hold of. Wasp spray maybe... but once a pitt has a hold on something they don't ever let go and their jaws are like iron. 

 

The idea is to scare the dog away before it gets to that point. ;) And there are quite a lot of myths about pitbull jaws and bites. Their bites aren't any stronger nor are their jaws any more able to hold on to something than other dogs.

[Anne in CA]

The idea is to scare the dog away before it gets to that point. ;) And there are quite a lot of myths about pitbull jaws and bites. Their bites aren't any stronger nor are their jaws any more able to hold on to something than other dogs.

Okay... I don't know about that... I've owned three and they do not let got of anything once they get a hold of it. I never really thought their jaws were stronger than other dogs. I think their brains are smaller and unable to reason when they have a hold on something, lol.

[Pawz4me]

Okay... I don't know about that... I've owned three and they do not let got of anything once they get a hold of it. I never really thought their jaws were stronger than other dogs. I think their brains are smaller and unable to reason when they have a hold on something, lol.

 

Neither does my Shih Tzu.

Nor did the beagle, the Brittany, the Rottweiler or the four mixed breed dogs I've owned.

 

Or at least not until I taught them to. ;)

 

It's a dog thing much more than a breed thing.

 

(I'm not a pitbull apologist. I do think there are some issues about them that are worthy of discussion and debate. But . . . fair is fair and I don't think they deserve to be indicted by falsehoods and myths.)

[BlsdMama]

I'd check the local ordinances and enforce them, but I'd also fence my yard.  I wouldn't want to bet my kids' safety on someone else following the rules perfectly every single time.

 

This.  I admire how pretty pits are but put in the category of too many of their ilk cannot be trusted for me to put much faith in a random neighbor's unknown and new caregiver.  Um, nope.

[guilfordlake]

Do you know if this woman was employed through an agency? If you don't have any luck speaking directly with her, maybe her employer help her see things differently.

 

Or what about the man's children? Any of them in the area to speak with the caregiver about the dog?

[Tammi K]

If the caregiver is a live-in, I suspect the senior's home-owner's insurance would be liable if there was a bite. Free roaming dog's are certainly a high risk proposition. Perhaps he really should be informed.  Most insurance companies want to know if specific 'high liability' breeds are on insured premises.

[Mergath]

Do you know if this woman was employed through an agency? If you don't have any luck speaking directly with her, maybe her employer help her see things differently.

 

Or what about the man's children? Any of them in the area to speak with the caregiver about the dog?

 

Well that escalated quickly. The OP hasn't even had her first conversation with the dog owner yet, but we already have people recommending she threaten to shoot the dog, or complain to the woman's employer and possibly get her fired. :huh:

 

There's a lot of middle ground between talking to the woman and options that are likely to create an enemy for life, you know.

 

[Katy]

Well that escalated quickly. The OP hasn't even had her first conversation with the dog owner yet, but we already have people recommending she threaten to shoot the dog, or complain to the woman's employer and possibly get her fired. :huh:

 

There's a lot of middle ground between talking to the woman and options that are likely to create an enemy for life, you know.

 

 

I have no problem with potentially creating an enemy of a temporary caregiver who is endangering the lives of my children by letting her dog illegally wander around the neighborhood - she is already neglecting both the dog and the law. I realize this is probably harsh for most people, but it will also take care of the issue most quickly.  IME once you make the threat to shoot the dog the next time it wanders onto your property, the owner will do what she should have been doing in the first place - leash the dog. If she doesn't, taking the dog to an animal shelter is probably best for the dog anyway, because clearly she doesn't care for the dog the way she should.

[Reefgazer]

I'd politely approach the caregiver and explain that the dog was in your yard and that your kids are young and not very good around dogs and you are afraid they will provoke the dog and could they please keep said dog secured.  Then I would go and fence in my yard.

[happi duck]

Op, how did the talk with the neighbor go?

[Pen]

I'm also wondering about follow up.  

 

I tend to agree with the posts quoted below.  Another option to add would be to phone the home of the dog each time you plan to go on a walk and tell then to make sure the dog is in or on a leash.

 

We have one set of problem dogs in our area and ds has taken the approach of making noise before he goes out on a walk to see if they bark. If they bark he knows they are out.

 

The dog that actually bit him continues to be a concern.  

 

Some other dogs do wander sometimes but seem to be "nice" and while any dog could do anything, we don't so much worry about the "nice" dogs. It isn't so much a breed issue as the individual dogs. And also pack mentality.  Also to some degree who is around is a factor in aggression level.

 

 

 

A walking stick, a golf umbrella or a folding umbrella that pops open at the push of a button are common defense items, as are air horns and whistles. Most importantly IMO is teaching your kids how to be safe around dogs, and that includes NOT running from one but to "be a tree."

 

I agree that a BB gun is likely a very bad idea. It's pretty darn hard to hit a rapidly moving dog, especially if it's headed straight towards you and so is presenting a narrow target. And unlike an air horn or a whistle, BB guns don't even make  enough noise to startle a dog. FWIW the benefit of an umbrella is two-fold -- opening one will generally startle a dog because it's not something they're used to, and it can be used as a shield. Granted it's not a sturdy shield, but most dogs don't understand that.

 

 

I used to take a big stick.  NOT to hit the dog with.  I would hit the ground with it and would yell NO!  or SIT! and STAY!.  As far as I know, one big german shepherd is still sitting and staying years later. . . .   :)  (IOW. . . I didn't run from him but I slowly backed away and went on another street and didn't stay around to see how long he would obey me.) 

 

 

BB gun is a bad idea because it wouldn't stop a large dog in attack mode unless you had crazy good aim and got it just in the right spot. You'd be more likely to piss it off or shoot one of your kids.

 

 

If the caregiver is a live-in, I suspect the senior's home-owner's insurance would be liable if there was a bite. Free roaming dog's are certainly a high risk proposition. Perhaps he really should be informed.  Most insurance companies want to know if specific 'high liability' breeds are on insured premises.

 

[Guest]

Well that escalated quickly. The OP hasn't even had her first conversation with the dog owner yet, but we already have people recommending she threaten to shoot the dog, or complain to the woman's employer and possibly get her fired. :huh:

 

There's a lot of middle ground between talking to the woman and options that are likely to create an enemy for life, you know.

 

Ever met anyone who flaunted the law, and had their epiphany after the neighbor chatted with them? Yes, the male does one courtesy request, then its get the PD involved until the dog is rehomed, or its owner gets it under control. The person who requires the owner to follow the law will always be an enemy for life, because he didn't accept that the dog's freedom is more important than the children.