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Seeing red because of the other grandparent (JAWM)


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I've been raising my grandchild since he was a month old.  DH's ex-wife so manipulated and abused the stepkids trying to get back at DH after their divorce.  We had hoped her behavior could be different with the grandchild.  He's three and already starting to show the evidence she's been starting in on him.....again with me as the target.  *sigh*

 

He calls me mom.  That is what he has heard my DD and my DH call me all his life.  Bio-parents are still in his life but they are limited and supervised.  DH's ex-wife took it upon herself to teach him to call me "DD's mom", something completely disrespectful and lacking any acknowledgement of my relationship with him.  She purposefully tried to insert a divisive wedge between his and my relationship.  

 

I'm livid.....because I know her and her motivations and I'm just damn tired of being the target.  I know I she'll set her sights on bigger targets as he gets older.  

 

Stefanie

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is this your step-child's child?  (so, her bio grandchild).

do you have full *legal* custody?

 

 

if she did this with her own kids - why would you think she wouldn't do this with her grandchild? 

 

If you have no legal obligation to allow her contact with the child - I would cut her off.

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Tell her to knock it off or she won't get a single second of unsupervised visitation. Ever.

 

We have.  She just justified it as me not being his biological mom....DIL is and my grandchild's "confusion" over it. It has nothing to do with my grandchild and everything to do about her.  She also has been working him up for days on having to come home to us

"because he cries when he has to go home".  Neither of us are dumb and know she's just going to get more subtle, but she's trying to walk it back.   I'm just disappointed we still have to deal with this crap.

 

is this your step-child's child?  (so, her bio grandchild).

do you have full *legal* custody?

 

 

if she did this with her own kids - why would you think she wouldn't do this with her grandchild? 

 

If you have no legal obligation to allow her contact with the child - I would cut her off.

 

Yes, this is my stepkid's child, however this is stepkid is the one DH adopted as a toddler when he married the ex; so no blood relation to either of us.  She has not been shy in the past about saying she thought we should turn custody over to her because of this and hinting that her and her now DH are/were looking to adopt.  

 

Its not that we didn't think she wouldn't try it.  DH just thinks that we have enough leverage over her to mitigate the behavior.  The grandchild doesn't have much contact with DIL's parents because they refuse to acknowledge the need for supervision.  DH has a valid concern that he needs access to extended family besides us.   We've laid down our marker and maybe after a few months we'll let up and give her another chance to behave.

 

Stefanie

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We have.  She just justified it as me not being his biological mom....DIL is and my grandchild's "confusion" over it. It has nothing to do with my grandchild and everything to do about her.  She also has been working him up for days on having to come home to us

"because he cries when he has to go home".  Neither of us are dumb and know she's just going to get more subtle, but she's trying to walk it back.   I'm just disappointed we still have to deal with this crap.

 

 

Yes, this is my stepkid's child, however this is stepkid is the one DH adopted as a toddler when he married the ex; so no blood relation to either of us.  She has not been shy in the past about saying she thought we should turn custody over to her because of this and hinting that her and her now DH are/were looking to adopt.  

 

Its not that we didn't think she wouldn't try it.  DH just thinks that we have enough leverage over her to mitigate the behavior.  The grandchild doesn't have much contact with DIL's parents because they refuse to acknowledge the need for supervision.  DH has a valid concern that he needs access to extended family besides us.   We've laid down our marker and maybe after a few months we'll let up and give her another chance to behave.

 

Stefanie

 

does the parent want the child with you?  does the parent hold their own against her?

have you ever read boundaries by townsend and cloud?  are you familiar with personality disorders?  even  if she doesn't have one - learning about them and how to defend and protect people from those with a personality disorder would be very beneficial.

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does the parent want the child with you?  does the parent hold their own against her?

have you ever read boundaries by townsend and cloud?  are you familiar with personality disorders?  even  if she doesn't have one - learning about them and how to defend and protect people from those with a personality disorder would be very beneficial.

 

When CPS removed the baby he was placed with us at the parents request.  But this isn't about the parents either.  This is about her being jealous/resentful that he isn't in her home calling her and her DH mommy/daddy because they can't have kids and her DH (much younger DH) wants them.  If she were in control of this child, he'd be the pawn she'd make both us and his parents jump through hoops for the right to see him.  But DIL would be the exact same, we'd be blackmailed into doing her bidding or she'd refuse to let us see him.  Stepson is unwilling to grow a pair when it comes to either his mom or his wife.

 

We are extremely familiar with personality disorders, very BTDT.  Ex, 2/3 of the skids and the DIL "have" em.  We can handle them just fine.  I'm not particularly looking for advice on how to deal with them (we've had the plan for how to deal with this scenario in place for three years now).  I just expected it more at 8 then to be already dealing with it so overtly at 3.  This is just a I'm so angry that people can't just put this kid first for a change post.

 

We aren't surprised.....its just we were hoping maybe it'd be different this time because we would like for our grandchild to be able to have relationships with his extended family.

 

Stefanie 

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No one is able to have a real relationship with someone with a personality disorder. That's not how that works. People with personality disorders only look out for themselves. They do not understand reciprocating. They believe it is for the weak. Any "relationship" with someone who is Borderline or Narcissist is always one of give/ give. You give, you give some more. That's all. 

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Unless she has an order of visitation, I would severely curtail her time with your grandchild, requiring supervised visitation. I would also suggest you contact your attorney, explain that the other grand is trying to undermine your parental position and ask them to send a letter to the other grand. That might do the trick. 

 

 

Best to you and your family. 

 

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We are extremely familiar with personality disorders, very BTDT.  Ex, 2/3 of the skids and the DIL "have" em.  We can handle them just fine.  I'm not particularly looking for advice on how to deal with them (we've had the plan for how to deal with this scenario in place for three years now).  I just expected it more at 8 then to be already dealing with it so overtly at 3.  This is just a I'm so angry that people can't just put this kid first for a change post.

 

We aren't surprised.....its just we were hoping maybe it'd be different this time because we would like for our grandchild to be able to have relationships with his extended family.

 

Stefanie 

 

then you should know leopards don't change their spots. time to protect the grandchild from having a relationship with the cray cary.

 

No one is able to have a real relationship with someone with a personality disorder. That's not how that works. People with personality disorders only look out for themselves. They do not understand reciprocating. They believe it is for the weak. Any "relationship" with someone who is Borderline or Narcissist is always one of give/ give. You give, you give some more. That's all. 

 

:iagree:

Unless she has an order of visitation, I would severely curtail her time with your grandchild, requiring supervised visitation. I would also suggest you contact your attorney, explain that the other grand is trying to undermine your parental position and ask them to send a letter to the other grand. That might do the trick. 

 

 

or it may just tick her off and escalate the games.  i'd be very careful going this way.

 

I would make sure the guardianship of the grandchild is legal if she is likely to legally challenge it.

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We have final custody. He isn't going anywhere and my state doesn't recognize grandparent rights. We have all the cards and the ex knows it. She is capable of being on her best behavior when it suits her interests. It is why we were caught a bit off guard by how early and strongly she has been manipulating.

 

Stefanie

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So is this a sudden change (the strong manipulation)? Just curious as to why the change, if so (just because my brain never stops trying to figure out what causes the ones in my life to tick .... :tongue_smilie: ).

Yes, sort of a sudden change, although the change could be him finally getting old enough to process and act on the manipulation. We've been seeing some possible warning signs upon picking him up the last few visits, but couldn't be 100% sure it was her doing something.

 

The first visit we saw a problem he cried during the exchange and the whole hour home. Concerned because it wasn't like him, but he could have been tired/allergies (he has a decent dog allergy and she has indoor dogs). The next visit after he had a bit of potty training regression. Again, concerned but these things often happen on their own as well so no way to accuse anything.

 

This time when we picked him up it was beyond obvious. During the exchange he stated to us he wanted to go home with her and was otherwise chatty. As soon as we left he refused to speak or interact with more than a grunt to us for 4 hours. Then the next 4 days he called me DD's mom instead of the usual. To me, it takes a very intensive and sustained effort to get a 3 year old to call his only known full time mother figure something else for 4 days.

 

The only difference that I am aware of is that his parents visited at the ex's house for a day and a half while he was there. But I am sure there is something else going on. His parents are on the brink of implosion so there is probably some funny business going on there between them too. She's been very critical of DIL's mental illness and lack of interest of the grandchild in the past and now she is firmly on team poor picked on DIL.

 

Trust me, we are very in tune with the situation and the various parties motivations and behaviors. We can generally guess the gist of what is going on before they ever get forced to come clean about it.

 

Stefanie

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The only difference that I am aware of is that his parents visited at the ex's house for a day and a half while he was there.

 

Wait, how long are these unsupervised visits with his grandma? Are we talking more than a few hours at a time?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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The only difference that I am aware of is that his parents visited at the ex's house for a day and a half while he was there.

 

Wait, how long are these unsupervised visits with his grandma? Are we talking more than a few hours at a time?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

This visit was longer because it was spring break, but they are usually 24 - 48 hours.  They've been worked up to and up until now they've been fine.  This is the first time this has reared its ugly head in an actionable way.  I have my suspicions about what schemes are going on behind the scenes and I'm not really going to discuss our plan for dealing with this online, but we do indeed have a plan to deal with it.

 

Stefanie

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This visit was longer because it was spring break, but they are usually 24 - 48 hours. They've been worked up to and up until now they've been fine. This is the first time this has reared its ugly head in an actionable way. I have my suspicions about what schemes are going on behind the scenes and I'm not really going to discuss our plan for dealing with this online, but we do indeed have a plan to deal with it.

 

Stefanie

I'm glad you are alert and have a plan. Folks who mess with babes are the worst.

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I've been raising my grandchild since he was a month old.  DH's ex-wife so manipulated and abused the stepkids trying to get back at DH after their divorce.  We had hoped her behavior could be different with the grandchild.  He's three and already starting to show the evidence she's been starting in on him.....again with me as the target.  *sigh*

 

He calls me mom.  That is what he has heard my DD and my DH call me all his life.  Bio-parents are still in his life but they are limited and supervised.  DH's ex-wife took it upon herself to teach him to call me "DD's mom", something completely disrespectful and lacking any acknowledgement of my relationship with him.  She purposefully tried to insert a divisive wedge between his and my relationship.  

 

I'm livid.....because I know her and her motivations and I'm just damn tired of being the target.  I know I she'll set her sights on bigger targets as he gets older.  

 

Stefanie

 

You know the saying: "Don't wrestle with pigs. They like it and you get muddy," may apply here.

Do what you do well. Be his grandma / mom.  Your relationship with him will stand on its own. He may be a little confused at times when he gets older and the animosity becomes clearer but eventually kids usually see right through this kind of manipulation.

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  but eventually kids usually see right through this kind of manipulation.

 

I strongly disagree with this. Manipulative people can cause a tremendous amount of damage to a parent/child relationship. They don't have any qualms about lying, bribing, using guilt, or whatever else it takes to get their way. 

 

Even if kids eventually see through it, damage has been done to them and to the relationship. It is dangerous to underestimate this type of person. They do not have normal boundaries. 

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We have.  She just justified it as me not being his biological mom....DIL is and my grandchild's "confusion" over it. It has nothing to do with my grandchild and everything to do about her.  She also has been working him up for days on having to come home to us

"because he cries when he has to go home".  Neither of us are dumb and know she's just going to get more subtle, but she's trying to walk it back.   I'm just disappointed we still have to deal with this crap.

 

 

Yes, this is my stepkid's child, however this is stepkid is the one DH adopted as a toddler when he married the ex; so no blood relation to either of us.  She has not been shy in the past about saying she thought we should turn custody over to her because of this and hinting that her and her now DH are/were looking to adopt.  

 

Its not that we didn't think she wouldn't try it.  DH just thinks that we have enough leverage over her to mitigate the behavior.  The grandchild doesn't have much contact with DIL's parents because they refuse to acknowledge the need for supervision.  DH has a valid concern that he needs access to extended family besides us.   We've laid down our marker and maybe after a few months we'll let up and give her another chance to behave.

 

Stefanie

 

I, personally, do not believe that: manipulative or mentally/emotionally screwy family is better than no family.

 

No, less (but healthy) family is better any day of the week. If you truly feel the need for more people,  then "family" can be expanded with really close friends or church/faith community (if you have a faith). But there is nothing wrong with the just the people in your household plus your son and dil. 

 

Plus, in reference to your dh's thought on "leverage over her to mitigate behaviors" - it sounds like you guys are getting caught up in this other woman's game/web/psychosis whatever. Nothing is worth having to have that kind of relationship if you don't have to. Sometimes we have to have those kinds of people in our lives, but if you don't legally have to deal with her, then I humbly suggest that you don't put yourselves or the child through that. If you guys are thinking in these sorts of terms or maneuvers (almost like chess) then that is not a good family relationship and is a model that the child will eventually come to see as normal.

 

 

 

:grouphug:  Forgive me if I come across as too strong or offensive. I do not mean to and only you know all the ins and outs of your situation...these are just my limited observations

Edited by jewellsmommy
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My children grew up with very little family interaction.  My parents were dead, my sister died early though my son did meet her (as did my older daughter but she was too little to remember), and the one relative they had usually once a year contact with is my brother.  They all met and liked their paternal grandfather but they saw him probably less than ten occasions.  The older two saw their paternal grandmother maybe five times for the oldest and two times for the middle and again she was too young to even remember her grandmother..  She died before my youngest was born.  

 

My kids did fine with very limited interaction with family.  Would it have been nice to have them have cousins and aunts and uncles and grandparents?  Sure but they basically didn't except for the one uncle who comes to visit.  We made our own family and you can do the same.  Our kids were not the only kids who had no relatives around or with whom they had no contact.  My middle daughter, who is now married, married a man who has a lot of family.  She now sees the issues with having a lot of family.  To her, it seems like having had less family was actually better.

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I strongly disagree with this. Manipulative people can cause a tremendous amount of damage to a parent/child relationship. They don't have any qualms about lying, bribing, using guilt, or whatever else it takes to get their way. 

 

Even if kids eventually see through it, damage has been done to them and to the relationship. It is dangerous to underestimate this type of person. They do not have normal boundaries. 

 

Agree with all of this. Perhaps I misunderstood OP but somehow I was under the impression that she did not have a choice whether this child sees this person or not and my advice was more geared toward making the best of an unpleasant situation.

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Agree with all of this. Perhaps I misunderstood OP but somehow I was under the impression that she did not have a choice whether this child sees this person or not and my advice was more geared toward making the best of an unpleasant situation.

 

We are not legally constrained.  We are looking at the future and possible scenarios.  When the bioparents have another one, it will go to her. Their issues are severe enough that CPS will not let them keep a child.  These people are sick enough that it is conceivable they will scheme to exchange a child for support.  We just are not in a position to raise another grandchild.  Once that happens, we'll either wind up legally entangled with her for visitation or we'll have to work something out ourselves anyway so the two siblings can have a relationship and so that we can know that grandchild.  How is that going to go if we alienate the ex now by cutting her off?  It is not as easy as just saying "you can't see him".

 

Stefanie

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Hmmmm.....that is very complex......so you need to protect the child all while keeping a somewhat cordial relationship with the "other" grandparent.

 

Protecting the child should have priority IMHO if you do have to make a choice of one or the other.

 

Perhaps not letting him spend the night?  Is that even a feasible option?  Is there any way that you could make that happen?  Day trips might not be as manipulative.

 

I'm really sorry you are in this situation.

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We are not legally constrained.  We are looking at the future and possible scenarios.  When the bioparents have another one, it will go to her. Their issues are severe enough that CPS will not let them keep a child.  These people are sick enough that it is conceivable they will scheme to exchange a child for support.  We just are not in a position to raise another grandchild.  Once that happens, we'll either wind up legally entangled with her for visitation or we'll have to work something out ourselves anyway so the two siblings can have a relationship and so that we can know that grandchild.  How is that going to go if we alienate the ex now by cutting her off?  It is not as easy as just saying "you can't see him".

 

Stefanie

Ohhh, so BTDT. It just wears you out thinking about it, doesn't it. I am sorry. Just, sorry. 

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You know the saying: "Don't wrestle with pigs. They like it and you get muddy," may apply here.

Do what you do well. Be his grandma / mom.  Your relationship with him will stand on its own. He may be a little confused at times when he gets older and the animosity becomes clearer but eventually kids usually see right through this kind of manipulation.

 

I have to disagree with this.  I've personally seen more often than not the kids buy into the manipulation and think the manipulator is the only person whose opinion matters in the whole world.   anyone who is against the manipulator . . .is a heretic.

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