Punished for using restroom

[scoutingmom]

I would also be upset unless there was more to this.

 

My elementary school as a kid you would ask and go. If more than a couple of kids had gone the teacher would make you wait until someone came back (because yes, sometimes it would trigger more kids wanting to go.).

 

My first 4th grade teacher announced at the start of the year that we did not have to ask to go but could just get up and quietly go because we were old enough and mature enough to handle that responsibility. (I think it was a couple of weeks before anyone tried it... I was the first because I really had to go but it was lucky scary because it was so different from asking permission... Lol)

 

I don't remember having to ask to go from grades 7-9... We might have had to because I do remember learning how to say it in French for that class. High school, no asking required, although you wouldn't leave during a lecture unless you really had to...

 

Now in high school I was also in an advanced academic program so we wouldn't have been students to hang out in the bathroom...

 

I strongly disagree with punishment for bathroom needs unless they had been abusing it and then part of the discussion with the student is the results of"crying wolf"

 

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[sarasue7272]

 

What do you mean, "As a sub, kids of all ages abuse going to the bathroom..." Do you mean they are substituting trips to the bathroom for paying attention to their work, or for participating in class

 

I meant that I see this when I am a substitute teacher. It's like kids see a sub and their first thought is 'bathroom!' I was addressing the idea that many on here seem to have that a first grader would not say they had to go just to leave the room. I disagree.

[Guest]

I think teachers who try to micromanage and assert control over something like a bodily function are a lot of the reason teachers in general are garnering the reputations they are. If it's a constant problem, bring it up to the parent. Let the parent deal with it. Don't punish the child in class. The schools I've seen over the last ten years are so tightly run they border on military-ish anyway. It's not like hoodlums running up and down halls and to boot there are cameras freaking every where you turn except probably IN the bathroom. But this is a FIRST grader for crying out loud, if I read it right. It's not like a repeat scene of some high school gone awry 1990's movie. 

 

My butt would be in the principal's office tomorrow waiting for his/her first available meeting to go to task over this,  if I did not have the wherewithal to pull the kid out at this point. If schools would figure out that their role is to educate and help turn out virtuous individuals rather than overtake or eradicate every ounce of autonomy a child has, it would be a good start to solving one of the thousand problems they've invented over the last thirty years. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by texasmom33

[wendyroo]

I meant that I see this when I am a substitute teacher. It's like kids see a sub and their first thought is 'bathroom!' I was addressing the idea that many on here seem to have that a first grader would not say they had to go just to leave the room. I disagree.

I agree. At my elementary long ago, the kindergarteners all had bathrooms in their classrooms, so first grade was the first time kids got to experience the freedom of walking the halls unsupervised. My first grade teacher spent an inordinate amount of time granting bathroom requests and rounding up stragglers who had disappeared into the bathroom abyss.

 

At the time I thought it was a horrible system, and looking back it still seems that way. It led to bullying, a lot of missed class time and a security risk since either the kids in the bathroom were unaccounted for for prolonged periods of time, or the teacher had to leave the rest of the class unsupervised to drag the AWOL students back to class.

 

Wendy

Edited January 10, 2017 by wendyroo

[Scarlett]

Bathroom issue aside this is one of the expenses I would be cutting in your current situation.

[regentrude]

At my site, some teachers issue bathroom passes (4) for the semester.  If you turn them in at the end, you get extra credit.  

 

That is  ridiculous. Getting a higher grade for not having to pee???

[umsami]

I've had to have a discussion with literally every one of my sons' 1st grade and Kindergarten teachers regarding using the bathroom.  I've had to say that you will not deny them the right to use it any time.  If they start abusing that privilege, let me know.  This is inexcusable IMHO.  (Tiger Mama comes out.)  

Edited January 10, 2017 by umsami

[wendyroo]

If schools would figure out that their role is to educate and help turn out virtuous individuals rather than overtake or eradicate every ounce of autonomy a child has, it would be a good start to solving one of the thousand problems they've invented over the last thirty years.

Except that kids are largely immature and irresponsible.

 

In adult society the saying goes that your right to swing your fist stops at the end of my nose, and that works because we have systems in place to hold the fist swinger responsible.

 

At a school, however, if a child swings his metaphorical fist and pops someone in the nose, the child will not be held responsible, but the victim will still suffer. If a school gives a child bathroom autonomy, and the child bullys another student in there or defaces the bathroom or falls behind in math because most days he chooses to hang out in the bathroom during math time, that causes problems for a lot of people, including the rest of the class whose teacher is having to split her attention between teaching and policing the bathroom comings and goings.

 

Wendy

[Guest]

Except that kids are largely immature and irresponsible.

 

In adult society the saying goes that your right to swing your fist stops at the end of my nose, and that works because we have systems in place to hold the fist swinger responsible.

 

At a school, however, if a child swings his metaphorical fist and pops someone in the nose, the child will not be held responsible, but the victim will still suffer. If a school gives a child bathroom autonomy, and the child bullys another student in there or defaces the bathroom or falls behind in math because most days he chooses to hang out in the bathroom during math time, that causes problems for a lot of people, including the rest of the class whose teacher is having to split her attention between teaching and policing the bathroom comings and goings.

 

Wendy

 

I'm going to disagree. I have yet to hear of a Montessori school having this issue, or in fact any of the private schools I, or my oldest attended. They didn't feel the need to have this level of control because they have a different relationship and viewpoint of the students (and their parents). There is a difference in the respect of autonomy in children that I have noticed between private and public schools. The causes of that I'm sure are many, but it's difficult to say it's impossible to allow for it when other schools manage to pull it off all the time. It's simply easier to try and rule this way I expect. 

[zoobie]

I'm going to disagree. I have yet to hear of a Montessori school having this issue, or in fact any of the private schools I, or my oldest attended. They didn't feel the need to have this level of control because they have a different relationship and viewpoint of the students (and their parents). There is a difference in the respect of autonomy in children that I have noticed between private and public schools. The causes of that I'm sure are many, but it's difficult to say it's impossible to allow for it when other schools manage to pull it off all the time. It's simply easier to try and rule this way I expect. 

 

I loved Montessori similar reasons (respect, autonomy). In addition to the differences in culture between a Montessori school and public school, you can't overlook certain other differences. Private Montessori schools screen their families and students. Children with behavior issues and learning disabilities may be asked to leave. Parents who can pay for private school tuition typically can afford to meet basic needs as well, so there generally aren't hungry or homeless kids coming to start the day. I do think the Montessori model is lovely and respectful and the public school model could glean some helpful aspects from it.

 

The Montessori school my children attended was not free from bullying, despite the school and teachers modeling respectful behavior from age 3. I don't think there's a private school that can claim they never have bullying issues. They may hide them better than public schools, but they still exist. 

[Lanny]

That would bother me a lot, because it sounds like your DS is a young boy. Possibly during their scheduled restroom break he didn't need to go, but later, in class, he did.  Not a good reason for someone of that age to be punished IMO.  I would get him out of there.

[Heathermomster]

My son's 1st grade classroom had a tiny WC, so kids weren't technically leaving the class to use the toilet during spelling.

 

Speak to the teacher and find out what happened. If he got up during a math test and was high fiving his classmates all the way to the loo, well he'd deserve to be marked down. He could have been noisy and causing a major distraction to the class. That happens sometimes.

 

I would want to know precisely what occured. If he was marked down for simply having to suddenly go and your DS was worried, assure him that you are not upset him and speak with the teacher and resolve it. Seek a prevention strategy. If the mark down only happened once, I'd be like "whatever" unless some kind of body shaming speech accompanied the mark down.

[creekland]

I as so puzzled by this when my kids attended elementary school in this country. The went collectively to the bathroom at prescribed times, with the teacher, even in 6th grade!

...

I never understood why kids had to be punished for talking in the hallway in the US. I was appalled by the overabundance of strict rules - it is entirely possible to run schools without micromanaging every sh*t. (Pun intended)

 

Not all schools in the US are that way.  Just thought I'd mention it...

 

Ours is not.  Kids talk in the hallway and at lunch all the time - all ages.  Regarding bathroom needs, as a teacher I'm responsible for knowing where every student assigned to me is at all times.  That's the law.  It came about due to school bullying and similar things.  Our school (high school) requires kids to sign out and have a pass with them.  Many teachers (myself included) do not put restrictions on kids as to when they can go (other than during tests, of course - and even then - I'll just make sure they leave their phones with me).  Kids just have to sign out so we can be responsible legally.

 

Schools would be blasted by all if something happened in a bathroom...

 

It seems to me that schools can't win if something goes wrong no matter what they decide to do - too lenient - too harsh, etc.

 

I'm going to disagree. I have yet to hear of a Montessori school having this issue, or in fact any of the private schools I, or my oldest attended. They didn't feel the need to have this level of control because they have a different relationship and viewpoint of the students (and their parents). There is a difference in the respect of autonomy in children that I have noticed between private and public schools. The causes of that I'm sure are many, but it's difficult to say it's impossible to allow for it when other schools manage to pull it off all the time. It's simply easier to try and rule this way I expect. 

 

All private schools can screen who goes there.  Money alone does some screening.

 

Public schools have to admit everyone.  It's really tough to expel a student.  Some do not come from great parental backgrounds and have already learned certain behaviors.  Such is life.  They still get the opportunity for an education.

 

Then, should we talk about class sizes?

 

With the OP's situation, count me among those who doesn't have enough information.  I'm curious what the teacher said happened - specifics.  Then I'd make my decision as to whether it was reasonable or not.  If the lad had just had a bathroom opportunity but turned it down, I'm siding with the teacher.  ALL of us need to learn to go when we have opportunities because we CAN'T just go "whenever."  As a teacher, I have limited times when I can go (can't leave kids alone).  When we're traveling, there are limited times and places to go.  Even during meals at our house, we don't like to get up to go when we could have gone half an hour sooner.  There's nothing wrong with a teacher encouraging a youngster to learn to use the restroom when it's available.  I think it's a good thing actually - a life lesson that needs to be learned when young.  However, if it had been a while since that opportunity or if there had been punishment for a first (or second) offense, then I think it's a bit too strict.

[Mimm]

Haven't read the replies but I find it dehumanizing and kind of sickening the way schools try to limit access to the bathroom. I've told this story on here before but when my oldest went to eighth grade, one teacher offered a grade boost if they didn't use the bathroom the entire year during her class. There are three minutes between classes. It's twisted.

[Bluegoat]

I can't say.  The system sounds inflexible to me, but in practice I don't know.  I don't necessarily have a problem with encouraging kids to go at certain times or having periods where they are discouraged - my kid's choir director is pretty strict about this, for example, and I am ok with that.

 

I would tend not to assume that a first grader would report accuaratly though, so I wouldn't do  anything without talking to the teacher.  Small kids sometimes miss important facts or misunderstand the reason sommething happens.

 

When I was in K, we had a board with tags with our names, and if we had to go to the toilet, we hung our tag up on a special hook.  It seemed to work and minimized disrupting the teacher if she was working with other kids. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Bluegoat

[SKL]

I think that in 1st grade, this is inappropriate, although I do understand trying to encourage kids to go at specific times to minimize disruptions.  At first I was going to say it might be OK depending on the consequence (hopefully very mild / age-appropriate) and assuming exceptions are allowed for kids who need to go more often.  However, the problem I see is that young kids will make poor decisions to avoid the consequences, even if they are mild, and nobody wants that.

 

That said, I would encourage your son to please use the bathroom when it's bathroom time, whether he "needs to" or not.  :)

[Guest]

Is this the least worst option? Every teacher with same policy?

I refused placement in classes where nonsped children must have a visible behavior plan. Too much negativity, too little trust that children will behave appropriately, too much anxiety that teacher will have a bad day or a particular student will, too many goats declared, no opportunity to learn from mistakes, and everyone loses. Also a sign that too little is being done academically for capable students, as so much time is spent on bips rather than positive improvements and teaching how to function in a group. Its been forty five years, and I still remember the goat of my fifth grade class (marty motormouth was what the adults called him),same inquisitive personality as the goat of my son's.fifth grade. How sad that school cannot be an emotionally safe place of learning for all children.

[heartlikealion]

This is insane. They only give you enough time in between to get to your next class.  When in hell are you supposed to go to the bathroom?

 

Yeah, seriously, sometimes it seems like there's no time to use the bathroom unless you lug extra books so you don't have to stop at your locker, too. Of course it's been years since I was in this situation but I'm thinking I had to make choices like that lol.

[Guest]

It might sound dumb, but teachers trying to micromanage when kids use the restroom was one of the reasons I originally considered homeschooling. (As in, before they were school age...just thinking back on my own school experience.)

 

And it's not that I don't sympathize with teachers...it has to be difficult when you are taking care of 20-30 kids and someone has to go to the bathroom at a tricky time.

Horrible memories about managing my period in middle school was one reason I originally considered homeschooling. So if your reason is weird, I'm right there with you.

[Heathermomster]

My DD requires a 504 for potty issues, and that is the reason she is home too.

[mom2scouts]

When my son was in first grade, they didn't have any scheduled bathroom breaks other than at lunch/recess. He was very shy and afraid to ask to go because his teacher was not nice and yelled at students daily . He wet his pants frequently that year. It's just one more of many reasons we decided to homeschool. Students should always be allowed to go to the bathroom unless it becomes completely clear they are just trying to avoid class.

[gstharr]

Very bothered.

 

Due to an abnormally thick bladder wall, I frequently wet my pants as a child. My 1st grade teacher would deny me access to the bathroom but them bring me to the front of the class and belittle me before she'd let me go change when I wet myself. When my mother got wind of this, the teacher was lucky to remain alive. My doctor, who was treating me in advance of a planned surgical procedure to help correct the problem apparently called the principal and went off on her for allowing that to happen. I think I was moved to a different teacher.

 

Mine was a poop in pants when 1st grade teacher wouldn't let me go the restroom.  I don't remember more about what happened other than we moved shortly after.