Online Spanish?

[happypamama]

DD is going to be above my ability to teach her Spanish by the end of this year.  Well, she speaks more of it than I do at this point, but I've studied languages enough that I am managing well enough from the textbook.  But I know that next year (10th grade), she needs to be working with someone who is much more fluent in the language for reading, writing, conversation, and the general nuances of a language that a strict textbook approach doesn't really cover.  I don't know that a private tutor would work for us, and I also don't know that a local class will work for us either, either high school or dual enrollment, for a variety of reasons.  So, what options are good for online Spanish?

 

Ideally, I suppose I'd like something that meets for a virtual class with an instructor at specific times, once or twice a week, so she can have the experience of working with both an instructor and classmates, possibly.  It would be nice if there is the option for a delayed watching occasionally, but it's not crucial.  It really needs not to need my input for homework at all.

 

I'd prefer something that had multiple levels and that allowed for a placement test.  I think she'll be beyond Spanish I but probably not to Spanish III level, unless I'm mistaken, but if something would allow her to take a placement test for the right level, that'd be even better.

 

This will be the first class we've ever outsourced, and my goal for 11th grade is dual enrollment/online college class, so something that is a good transition between all of that would be really helpful.

[happypamama]

Specifically, what can anyone tell me about the following: Ray Leven, Homeschool Spanish Academy, or Veritas Press online?

[mirabillis]

We just started Homeschool Spanish Academy. So too new to tender a review, but so far, it's fine. I did a TON of research on these boards and read every thread associated with HSA and it seemed very well-received. We also needed the UC A-G approval of it, so that was a big bonus.

[Harriet Vane]

I adore 121Spanish. We have worked with them for years.

 

https://121spanish.com/

[Maryam]

If you don't mind me asking as well, is Homeschool Spanish Academy suitable for middle school students?

[RootAnn]

With the fact that you don't know where she will place, that she hasn't had much speaking practice (but has a good grasp of grammar), and you plan to move onto DE in q year, I would recommend something like HSA, italki, or one of the other conversation-based programs.

 

My dd loves Sr Gamache, but it doesn't make sense financially to jump into his three year sequence for only a year.

 

Ray Leven will assess where you are and offers private tutoring to get you to the next class level (over the summer even), but it is pricey. There are rave reviews on here, but I have heard some mixed reviews more recently (but only in PMs).

 

My dd uses italki for summer conversation practice, not for her main program.

[TCB]

Ray Leven will assess where you are and offers private tutoring to get you to the next class level (over the summer even), but it is pricey. There are rave reviews on here, but I have heard some mixed reviews more recently (but only in PMs).

 

I have been thinking about asking about this on here. My friend's child has been taking Ray Leven's class and has found that he is  impatient with the kids at times and I think she said that he rants about things during class at times also. I had only heard good reviews before so wondered if anyone else had this experience with him? 

[daijobu]

We have not used Language Bird, but we did take advantage of a trial class that was offered to us, and it seemed fine.  You are paired with a teacher from Mexico 1:1 and meet by skype.  Students move at their own pace.  I'm not sure on whether there is a set curriculum with a textbook or what, but if you are in California, it is a-g approved, which is huge.  I met the founder at a homeschooling conference, and she is very approachable, so I would contact her directly and maybe ask for a free trial.  It is a new service, and I wasn't able to find many families who have used LB, so still not widely reviewed.  

[OnMyOwn]

I have been thinking about asking about this on here. My friend's child has been taking Ray Leven's class and has found that he is impatient with the kids at times and I think she said that he rants about things during class at times also. I had only heard good reviews before so wondered if anyone else had this experience with him?

My dd has taken Spanish 2 and 3 with Sr. Leven and is now in his Spanish 4 class and her experience has been very different from your friend's. I know she has had nothing but positive feelings about the class, but I just double checked with her to see if anything had changed and if she thinks he rants or is impatient. She doesn't feel that he rants at all. She said he does get impatient at times, but only when a student repeatedly comes to class unprepared. She says he has always been kind to her and has never been harsh when she's made a mistake, but that he does have an expectation that students will come to class prepared and learn the material. In all my own dealings with him over the years, he has always come across as a very decent, kind person.

 

I have posted positive reviews about his class in the past and still feel very happy with the experience my dd has had with Sr. Leven. I do not think his class is for everyone, though. I know it would not be a good fit for my son because the format of the online portion would be too stressful for him. I also have a friend that put her ds into his class based on my recommendation and it took him hours and hours to do the work, while I don't think my dd has ever spent more than 2-3 hours on the homework. So, maybe this is a class for students who tend to pick up languages more easily? He does advertise it as an honors class.

Edited November 21, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[crazyforlatin]

We have not used Language Bird, but we did take advantage of a trial class that was offered to us, and it seemed fine. You are paired with a teacher from Mexico 1:1 and meet by skype. Students move at their own pace. I'm not sure on whether there is a set curriculum with a textbook or what, but if you are in California, it is a-g approved, which is huge. I met the founder at a homeschooling conference, and she is very approachable, so I would contact her directly and maybe ask for a free trial. It is a new service, and I wasn't able to find many families who have used LB, so still not widely reviewed.

It's kind of expensive at close to $70 per hour, even if it's just one to one tutoring and a-g approved. It's hard to tell the quality unless I get a trial, which I'll do during the semester break. It's just that I have a lot of experience with skype tutors, so for someone to charge $70 per 50 minutes, I feel like I'm paying for the a-g status, rather than for the content, as I don't think the content can get better than what I've experienced at other online providers. I mean, what did you think about the trial and are you considering it? I know having the a-g approval is important to us, but I really don't want that to sway me into paying that much, and I can be easily tempted.

[daijobu]

I observed the LB trial (hidden away) while my daughter was online with the tutor.  It seemed fine, but I left it up to my daughter, and she elected to stick with Ray.  Like OnMyOwn, she thinks the homework is not very taxing.  Ray is not very tolerant of students who do not prepare for class, so students should always arrived prepared with assigned vocabulary mostly memorized.  

[Edia1012]

We have had a great experience with Wilson Hill Academy.

[Matryoshka]

I have been thinking about asking about this on here. My friend's child has been taking Ray Leven's class and has found that he is impatient with the kids at times and I think she said that he rants about things during class at times also. I had only heard good reviews before so wondered if anyone else had this experience with him?

My dd felt almost exactly that way, on both fronts. She felt like he definitely got very impatient with some kids (not necessarily her), and definitely had very strong opinions on issues (and she got the feeling a right or wrong way to think about them) - and a lot of the class was discussing issues (AP level) and since she did not agree with him on many of these issues this really annoyed her.

 

He gets almost universally rave reviews so I would not necessarily discourage anyone else from taking his class... this seems to be a personality and learning style thing... I hesitate to bring it up at all since so many people seem to love him but since you asked so specifically...

 

(it probably didn't help that he has a fairly strong Philly accent on his Spanish... that doesn't seem to bug most people, but she was used to hearing Spanish spoken with some sort of native accent... I have to admit that a bad accent can start to grate on me after a while no matter the content of what is being said...)

[lbell]

We are trying Homeschool Spanish Academy this year with a 9th grader and 4th grader.  It's not working very well for us.  Although times are flexible, it's hard to consistently get the teacher and time you want.  I'd like for my 9th grader to have a lesson 3 days a week, but we can't seem to get the time we need.  My 4th grader has 30 minute lessons, so it's easier to find times.  Next year I plan on enrolling my 9th grader in Spanish at Wilson Hill Academy and my son at Classical Academic Press.

[nutella08]

We've done Homeschool Spanish Academy (HSA) and also classes with Ray Leven. She enjoyed the classes with HSA but progress was erratic and her grammar instruction seems weak. She learned a lot with Ray but also found him to be "mean" (impatient, but not necessarily to her) and speaks with heavy non-native Spanish accent. 

[J-rap]

We did a couple years of online Spanish through IQ Academy.  Now, that is a state-run online school, and I know some people are opposed to that.  Also, IQ Academy isn't available in every state.  But, our experience was excellent.  It was very well organized, and the teacher was very much on the ball.  Most of the work was done independently but on the computer with a lot of time put into it daily by the teacher.  Once a week, all of the students plus the teacher would gather together online and have group discussions and question and answer sessions.  Also once a week each student would have one-on-one time with the teacher.  I imagine a lot of it depends on the teacher, but perhaps it's worth checking into.

[OnMyOwn]

We've done Homeschool Spanish Academy (HSA) and also classes with Ray Leven. She enjoyed the classes with HSA but progress was erratic and her grammar instruction seems weak. She learned a lot with Ray but also found him to be "mean" (impatient, but not necessarily to her) and speaks with heavy non-native Spanish accent.

It is interesting to hear this other view on Sr. Leven's class. My dd has witnessed the impatience with an unprepared student, but is that really mean? I'm thinking he's more of an old school teacher and isn't going to baby kids that are unprepared, but that he's not harsh or unfair. It surprises me quite a bit to hear that he is viewed that way by some because my dd is so very sensitive. I don't know about the accent, but I'm sure it's true since he does live in Philadelphia.

 

Anyway, I'm glad people are posting their different experiences, so that others have as much information as possible and can make the best choice for their child. I've never posted anything but rave reviews and I would hate for someone to sign up for the class based on my review and then come away unhappy.

[Miss Tick]

It is interesting to hear this other view on Sr. Leven's class. My dd has witnessed the impatience with an unprepared student, but is that really mean? I'm thinking he's more of an old school teacher and isn't going to baby kids that are unprepared, but that he's not harsh or unfair. It surprises me quite a bit to hear that he is viewed that way by some because my dd is so very sensitive. I don't know about the accent, but I'm sure it's true since he does live in Philadelphia.

 

Anyway, I'm glad people are posting their different experiences, so that others have as much information as possible and can make the best choice for their child. I've never posted anything but rave reviews and I would hate for someone to sign up for the class based on my review and then come away unhappy.

I've sat in on a few of my dc class with him and my impression matches yours. I can see how some people might take it personally, although it hadn't occurred to me. I was reminded of dd's ballet mistress or a previous swim coach, stern and expecting your all, impatient with unpreparedness or not following along. After our experience last spring, I left the class thinking that I was glad not to be paying top dollar to someone who spent much of the class time trying to get an unwilling student to participate. (That was a local class).

[hopskipjump]

Chiming in- dd had leven last year and he WAS mean! Not just to "unprepared students" either. Yes, the unprepared students would start the angry-ball rolling sometimes - but he would then vent at ALL of the students. There was name calling, threats about calling everyone's parents, etc. Things that a teacher with zero control of a situation would do.

 

Worse, imho, were the times HE was the unprepared one!!! SO many computer problems last year (his end). He was late to class several times due to those issues and when he was?? Woe to the students! He immediately started out yelling at them because of HIS error.

 

On more than one occasion, HE had the wrong flash cards or was on the wrong week's assignment. Started yelling at the class for being so lazy and not doing their homework. Calling students out and giving personal details as to their homework completion status (again, he was on the wrong week... not the kids)

 

He gave them each .5 seconds to bark out a word, and was truly nasty when they tried to explain they had never seen the term before. Midway through, he realized he had the AP Spanish class flash card words/terms (dd was in a lower-level class...). Did he apologize? Nope. Just continued barking at the kids about their lousy homework assignments and ended the class early.

 

He has more than one time/day for each level of Spanish. He would seem to forget which class he was teaching (eg. Teach Concept A to Monday's class. Then get frustrated with Tuesday's class because he would think he had already TAUGHT Concept A... but he hadn't! That was Monday's class!).

 

Total nightmare class. Worst online experience we've ever had - hands down. DD is taking Spanish this year locally.

 

More than one class wound up with one or more students crying. Teens crying. ON camera IN class. I'm sorry, but there is no way that is "normal" or okay.

 

Dds "favorite" moment was when she realized he could control himself. There was an observer one class (a parent/student watching to see if they wanted to sign up for the next school year). She said he would pause, breathe, gulp before speaking to the kids - reigning in his urge to yell at them for the slightest error. He made jokes and gave helpful corrections.

 

Only our sense of humor got dd through that year. And I'm posting here because ALL I could find before signing up were *glowing* reviews. Ppl said "as long as your student is prepared for class, he will be fine! He will learn so much!" That was NOT our experience in the slightest. DD was always prepared and ready to go. She never found the homework to be overwhelming or too much. But she dreaded the class time and felt horrible for some kids that he especially seemed to visibly loathe.

Edited November 24, 2016 by hopskipjump

[Miss Tick]

Only our sense of humor got dd through that year. And I'm posting here because ALL I could find before signing up were *glowing* reviews. Ppl said "as long as your student is prepared for class, he will be fine! He will learn so much!" That was NOT our experience in the slightest. DD was always prepared and ready to go. She never found the homework to be overwhelming or too much. But she dreaded the class time and felt horrible for some kids that he especially seemed to visibly loathe.

I'm sorry your dd had such a miserable class experience! I will definitely be doing more of my sitting in as a "hidden observer" and giving this careful consideration when we discuss what to do next year. Thank you for the frank review.

[OnMyOwn]

Chiming in- dd had leven last year and he WAS mean! Not just to "unprepared students" either. Yes, the unprepared students would start the angry-ball rolling sometimes - but he would then vent at ALL of the students. There was name calling, threats about calling everyone's parents, etc. Things that a teacher with zero control of a situation would do.

 

Worse, imho, were the times HE was the unprepared one!!! SO many computer problems last year (his end). He was late to class several times due to those issues and when he was?? Woe to the students! He immediately started out yelling at them because of HIS error.

 

On more than one occasion, HE had the wrong flash cards or was on the wrong week's assignment. Started yelling at the class for being so lazy and not doing their homework. Calling students out and giving personal details as to their homework completion status (again, he was on the wrong week... not the kids)

 

He gave them each .5 seconds to bark out a word, and was truly nasty when they tried to explain they had never seen the term before. Midway through, he realized he had the AP Spanish class flash card words/terms (dd was in a lower-level class...). Did he apologize? Nope. Just continued barking at the kids about their lousy homework assignments and ended the class early.

 

He has more than one time/day for each level of Spanish. He would seem to forget which class he was teaching (eg. Teach Concept A to Monday's class. Then get frustrated with Tuesday's class because he would think he had already TAUGHT Concept A... but he hadn't! That was Monday's class!).

 

Total nightmare class. Worst online experience we've ever had - hands down. DD is taking Spanish this year locally.

 

More than one class wound up with one or more students crying. Teens crying. ON camera IN class. I'm sorry, but there is no way that is "normal" or okay.

 

Dds "favorite" moment was when she realized he could control himself. There was an observer one class (a parent/student watching to see if they wanted to sign up for the next school year). She said he would pause, breathe, gulp before speaking to the kids - reigning in his urge to yell at them for the slightest error. He made jokes and gave helpful corrections.

 

Only our sense of humor got dd through that year. And I'm posting here because ALL I could find before signing up were *glowing* reviews. Ppl said "as long as your student is prepared for class, he will be fine! He will learn so much!" That was NOT our experience in the slightest. DD was always prepared and ready to go. She never found the homework to be overwhelming or too much. But she dreaded the class time and felt horrible for some kids that he especially seemed to visibly loathe.

Gosh! That sounds like a terrible experience. Sorry your dd went through that. It's hard to wrap my mind around that description because it does not fit at all with what we have experienced. Doesn't even sound like it could be the same person. What SusanC said above about some people maybe taking things personally is something I can fathom, but what you've shared just doesn't even make sense to me from what I've known of this man for 2-1/2 years of classes. He's always been professional in every class and in all our communications with him and he's also always very prompt for class and not forgetful at all. I just don't understand?!?

[OnMyOwn]

I'm sorry your dd had such a miserable class experience! I will definitely be doing more of my sitting in as a "hidden observer" and giving this careful consideration when we discuss what to do next year. Thank you for the frank review.

Yes, I am going to do this, too. But my dd was completely traumatized by her ballet teacher a number of years ago and there is no way she would be able to tolerate, let alone love Sr. Leven's class if she had that experience in her class. The poor kid literally shakes like a leaf every time she has to deal with a new teacher because of what her old ballet teacher did to her. Heck, Sr. Leven was the one teacher she wanted to send a Christmas gift to last year.

 

Hopskipjump, I am just baffled by all of this.

Edited February 8, 2017 by OnMyOwn

[hopskipjump]

I was completely baffled too!!! lol I just wanted to make sure that this side of the experience is "out there" so at least parents can take it into consideration when considering this class & maybe handle it differently right off the bat if they have a similar experience. And hopefully he's much better this year for those taking his classes.

I sort of think the lower-level class(es) maybe are where he had more problems last year? Maybe he's better able to keep his patience with the later-level classes full of kids he already mostly knows? Like he is so sick of teaching "2+2" that he had very little patience for it? We thought, maybe, he was having personal issues that were affecting things - and gave it some time & patience thinking he might chill as the year progressed, but no such luck.

He was always VERY polite to me in emails. For dd? Email responses were always ALL CAPS and misspelled words. He most often wouldn't even answer the question she asked, but would say something very random and off topic - leaving her to decide whether or not to bug him again to get the answer she needed. I just re-read through her emails to make sure I was remembering correctly. It was odd, to say the least.

I researched a lot beforehand and asked people questions before picking the Spanish class. We were prepared for "high expectations," etc... In fact, that was a big reason dd chose his class!! She wanted a teacher with clear guidelines add high expectations in class. She felt that, as long as she did her part, the class experience would be worth the effort.

But the bullying attitude we were not prepared for at all. He made fun of kids for asking "stupid questions." He was disorganized with assignments and scattered during the classes.

(And dd is a not-sensitive-to-criticism kind of kid who is great at communicating with instructors and getting the most out of online classes. She can manage a room full of chaos and bend it to her will. This class was just jaw-dropping at times. She was just... agog. lol)

Edited December 30, 2016 by hopskipjump

[sierramv1]

I'm so glad I found this thread! I came on the board after months of being away because my son is having a horrible time with Ray Levens Spanish. He is a solid student with a good work ethic, and he just can't seem to catch a 

break with Ray. I thought at first it was that my DS was not quite at the level he needed to be for Honors Spanish II, even though he tested into it through our public HS. I paid for tutoring sessions at $80/hour! Then finally dropped him

down to Spanish I, and he is still having problems! I am so frustrated, we are well over $1,000 into the class and I don't feel like he is getting anything out of it and want to switch! 

 

My DS said he virtually "strangles" them when they frustrate him, which I played off as him joking, but it was embarrassing to my DS. He has been spending 6-8 hours a week on Spanish and not getting anywhere. He emails continuously to ask specific questions and doesn't really get answers. He wakes up Tuesday morning dreading the day because he has Spanish that afternoon. I'm not sure what to do from here. I'd really like to pull him, but then I have 1/2 year to come up with a Spanish class after spending lots of $$ on this one. I think I'll post this as a topic to, I just wanted to say thank you to the parents that spoke out! 

[swimmermom3]

We were sorry to hear about the negative experiences with Ray Leven.  My ds did private tutoring and took Ray's Honor's Spanish 4 and AP Spanish classes.  Ds was very pleased with his experience and felt well prepared for his college Spanish class and a trip to Spain.  Ray is blunt and demanding, but my son who is a former club swimmer loved that about Ray.  I certainly had a text or two from Ray that said Sailor Dude needed to light a fire under his backside.  That assessment was spot on.  Ray is very similar in teaching style to ds's veteran AP Biology teacher who once asked a student who was always late, "Why do you bother?"  It may not be a style for every student.

[Miss Mousie]

I too find him overly harsh and disorganized at times, although he does also give praise on occasion.  His worksheets often have typos or other errors, too, which is confusing, especially for beginning students.  I think the homework is overwhelming - often more than 4 hours on the website alone, to say nothing of the compositions and the dozens of translations each week, plus all the memorization Leven expects - and at times I really resent how much time it sucks away from the rest of our studies. 

 

But I am hesitant to change for next year because, among other things, DC needs more experience working hard at something that doesn't come easily, and if we stick with Leven long enough he might be willing to write a college rec based on DC's growth over time.  (It felt totally lame to write that last bit, but it's true that we have few other options for outside recs!)

 

[mirabillis]

I was completely baffled too!!! lol I just wanted to make sure that this side of the experience is "out there" so at least parents can take it into consideration when considering this class & maybe handle it differently right off the bat if they have a similar experience. And hopefully he's much better this year for those taking his classes.

 

 

I think it takes guts to post your not-so-glowing reviews. Not every review is positive. And just because there are glowing reviews doesn't in any way make yours unfathomable. You have done a great service to the homeschooling community, hopskipjump, to let those doing their research know there is maybe another side to the coin.

[happypamama]

I came across this thread while searching for another post I had started about something else and figured I'd bump it with an update for anyone searching in the future.

 

We tried Homeschool Spanish Academy's free trial.  I sat in on it with DD.  She liked it okay and was willing to give it a shot.  I purchased 60 classes, which is what they suggest for one year, about two classes a week.  They allowed four actual classes (separate from the trial) before I could no longer ask for my money back, so we scheduled a few different teachers.  I think DD was a little nervous on the placement test, so they put her in Spanish 1, when we had expected she'd start in 2.  We tried a few different teachers until she stumbled upon one whom she really loves, so now we schedule all of her classes with that teacher, even if it means booking several weeks in advance.  If that teacher doesn't have many classes available in a particular week, we schedule what we can and check back occasionally for that week because things do open up.  She flew through Spanish 1 with an easy A and no outside studying, saying it was easy and didn't have much new vocabulary.  She's on track to finish most of Spanish 2 before her 60 classes run out, which works for me.  If she's up for it, they cover two lessons' worth of material in one class session, but I also like that if she's not having her best day, there's no pressure.  She is finding that there is more homework in Spanish 2, so it really helps if she has 3-4 days between classes.  Last week she had a Wednesday afternoon Spanish class, three sections of homework for Wednesday's lesson, her other schoolwork, a Thursday evening martial arts class, and an early Friday morning class (which meant her homework was due at like 5 am Friday so she had to finish it the night before) -- that was a little tight on time.  I like that they grade homework on completion and turning it in on time (although turning it in late just loses some points) and not on accuracy.

 

An inexpensive headset makes it easier for her to speak and hear clearly. I try to keep the little boys away from her, but that doesn't always happen.

 

DD doesn't want to do DE in 11th; she wants to stick with HSA for Spanish 3, so I think that's what we will do.