I know you're not supposed to put a kid on a diet, but...

[ktgrok]

Not never. Just only occasionally, for a special treat, and in a single-serving container. 

 

The cost per unit really got to me, until I realized that by buying the family size bag for $3 instead of the single-serving bag for 50c, I was not really saving any money, because buying the larger bag just meant that I was going to eat $3 worth of potato chips instead of 50c. 

 

Right. If DS loved vodka, and drank responsibly never getting drunk, but other DS was in the initial stages of alcoholism recovery, you probably wouldn't stock the cabinet with vodka! Maybe years down the road, when the alcoholic was well into recovery, but not in those initial stages. And to someone dealing with obesity, things like sweets and chips are as addictive as booze. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by ktgrok

[Guest]

I know all of this and the house is full of good choices. Cereal is not always in the house, but shredded wheat is not junk to me. There is also eggs, Plain Greek yogurt, fruit, peanut butter. Oatmeal. He is 15 1/2....I am not going to force him to eat what I want him to eat.

No, you're not understanding. Shredded wheat, frosted or not, is pure and unblunted starch. You would literally be better off feeding him a snickers bar for the additional fat and small protein content.

 

You say you want to help him - I really wish you'd pick up one of the books I linked, read it with an open mind, and at least try. I really wish my stepmom had, rather than prancing around as a thin, healthy person and wondering why her best solutions didn't do jack for me (and then just assuming it was my fault and my choice).

 

I've said my peace. You will either hear it in the spirit it is intended, from someone who has actually BEEN there as a kid and conquered obesity for years (until massive and unrelated health issues interfered with successful maintenance of a normal body weight), or you won't.

 

If I had to choose, I'd say Protein Power is the better book for you to read and definitely not over his head. Information is power. Watching the video series and interviews at dietdoctor.com together may also be a fantastic choice. If he is anything like I was, the knowledge that it might not actually be his fault that he is fat but a physical issue, and one with solutions, will be balm for his heart.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[kiana]

I know all of this and the house is full of good choices.  Cereal is not always in the house, but shredded wheat is not junk to me.  There is also eggs, Plain Greek yogurt, fruit, peanut butter. Oatmeal.   He is 15 1/2....I am not going to force him to eat what I want him to eat.  

 

He has reached the point where he cannot control his cravings even though he desperately hates being fat and wants to lose weight. In order to set him up for success, you need to help him by not providing temptation. Are there classes of foods where he can control himself? 

 

Prepared foods are a particular bugbear for many. Not only are they highly palatable, but they are so quick to serve that someone with impulse control issues can be eating them in less than a minute. Having to cook something, cut something, or prepare something really slows down the snacking. 

 

It's like bringing booze into a home with an alcoholic, then acting surprised when they pick the beer over the seltzer. 

 

That's the comparison I was planning on making as well.

He has reached the point where he cannot control his cravings even though he desperately hates being fat and wants to lose weight. In order to set him up for success, you need to help him by not providing temptation. 

 

ETA: Scarlett, I'm really hoping that you don't read these posts as a series of attacks. It is absolutely nothing personal for me and I doubt for anyone else, but rather trying to come up with analogies to explain why your dss is just unable to control himself and needs the extra help at this point. 

 

It would seem like he should/could be able to "just not eat it" since it works for you. But some people are just wired differently as far as impulse control and it's probably exacerbated by not having learned those skills in childhood. I am speaking from the experience of someone who struggled with obesity during my entire adult life and was only able to succeed by changing my environment. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by kiana

[regentrude]

OP I know I have threadjacked this, but I am dealing with the same issue with one kid being thin and the other obese.  Just now I heated up leftover meatloaf....I made them meatloaf sandwiches.  Ds16 wanted 2 but there wasn't enough for them both to have to two.....should I let ds16 have 2 and ds15 have one?  Ds16 is starving all the time.  Ds16 put no condiments on his sandwhich...ds15?  Mayo.  I said nothing...but I want to.

 

I don't see the issue. One kid wants two, the other didn't - so why shouldn't the kid who asked get two sandwiches???

If they are BOTH still hungry and there is not enough for four sandwiches, make three sandwiches and either each gets 1.5, or offer to make a fourth sandwich for the other kid with something else on it.

Why is that a problem, unless your household is food insecure and the kids permanently undernourished?

And what is the problem with one kid using mayo and the other one not? I can't stand mayo, but I know some people put it on sandwiches. That little bit of mayo won't prevent your DS from being hungry and it didn't cause your DSS to be obese.

Edited November 1, 2016 by regentrude

[Scarlett]

I don't see the issue. One kid wants two, the other didn't - so why shouldn't the kid who asked get two sandwiches???

If they are BOTH still hungry and there is not enough for four sandwiches, make three sandwiches and either each gets 1.5, or offer to make a fourth sandwich for the other kid with something else on it.

Why is that a problem, unless your household is food insecure and the kids permanently undernourished?

And what is the problem with one kid using mayo and the other one not? I can't stand mayo, but I know some people put it on sandwiches. That little bit of mayo won't prevent your DS from being hungry and it didn't cause your DSS to be obese.

 

There is plenty of food in this house.  No one is undernourished.  The problem for me is when thin ds16 asks for 2 sandwiches....should I say, there is only enough for you each to have one and a half? Dss15 doesn't need the 2nd sandwich....so I don't really even want to offer it to him.  But I don't want him to feel like a second class citizen.

[SKL]

Yeah, with the 2 sandwiches question I'd ask the other kid if he'd like another half sandwich and if yes, I'd let them each have another half.  If no, I'd let the first kid have 2.  No biggie.  :)

 

I have 2 kids who are almost the same age, so I'm used to the idea of trying not to look unfair.  But their desires are rarely the same.

[regentrude]

I have been buying cereal for Dss15....not total junk cereal...but yes the sugar is pretty high.  And he goes through a box of 8 servings in like 3 days.  I have explained that to him....I say look I am not saying you can't have what you want, but if you have a desire to lose weight, you need to be aware of what a serving is.  

 

There are several things wrong here.

First, as others have pointed out, cereal may not be a suitable food for a teen with his metabolic problems. Especially if it has added sugar. (There are cereals with NO added sugar - why don't you buy some whole grain muesli instead?)

 

Second, what they call a "serving" is laughable. Nobody in our family (normal weight, no metabolic issues) has ever been not hungry after consuming what is called a "portion". There are simply not enough calories in a "serving" of cereal for a meal. I have no idea who decided what counts as "servings" - they almost never have anything to do with the amount of the food that we consider a portion.

[regentrude]

There is plenty of food in this house.  No one is undernourished.  The problem for me is when thin ds16 asks for 2 sandwiches....should I say, there is only enough for you each to have one and a half? Dss15 doesn't need the 2nd sandwich....so I don't really even want to offer it to him.  But I don't want him to feel like a second class citizen.

 

No, why would you? It would not be true- there IS enough food for him to have 2 sandwiches; he asked first. If the other kid is still hungry, there is other food. It's not like he asked to eat all of a once-in-a-lifetime delicay and did not leave anything for his brother - it's just meat loaf, for heaven's sake. What is so special about meat loaf?

[Scarlett]

He has reached the point where he cannot control his cravings even though he desperately hates being fat and wants to lose weight. In order to set him up for success, you need to help him by not providing temptation. Are there classes of foods where he can control himself? 

 

Prepared foods are a particular bugbear for many. Not only are they highly palatable, but they are so quick to serve that someone with impulse control issues can be eating them in less than a minute. Having to cook something, cut something, or prepare something really slows down the snacking. 

 

 

That's the comparison I was planning on making as well.

He has reached the point where he cannot control his cravings even though he desperately hates being fat and wants to lose weight. In order to set him up for success, you need to help him by not providing temptation. 

 

ETA: Scarlett, I'm really hoping that you don't read these posts as a series of attacks. It is absolutely nothing personal for me and I doubt for anyone else, but rather trying to come up with analogies to explain why your dss is just unable to control himself and needs the extra help at this point. 

 

It would seem like he should/could be able to "just not eat it" since it works for you. But some people are just wired differently as far as impulse control and it's probably exacerbated by not having learned those skills in childhood. I am speaking from the experience of someone who struggled with obesity during my entire adult life and was only able to succeed by changing my environment. 

 

 

No but I feel a little resentful that my ds16 can't have ice cream in the house.  

 

And btw, you guys may think I have a house full of junk food, but he told me our food is so much healthier than his mom's house.  Hamburger Helper.  That kind of stuff.  Or take out from Sonic.  Just rarely a good homecooked meal.  

[hornblower]

There are several things wrong here.

First, as others have pointed out, cereal may not be a suitable food for a teen with his metabolic problems. Especially if it has added sugar. (There are cereals with NO added sugar - why don't you buy some whole grain muesli instead?)

 

Second, what they call a "serving" is laughable. Nobody in our family (normal weight, no metabolic issues) has ever been not hungry after consuming what is called a "portion". There are simply not enough calories in a "serving" of cereal for a meal. I have no idea who decided what counts as "servings" - they almost never have anything to do with the amount of the food that we consider a portion.

 

she said Shredded Wheat. Shredded Wheat has 0 sugar added. 

 

(fwiw, I've never found anything labelled muesli that wasn't loaded with sugars, raisins, honey, molasses plus a whole bunch of fats courtesy of nuts) 

[ktgrok]

No but I feel a little resentful that my ds16 can't have ice cream in the house.  

 

And btw, you guys may think I have a house full of junk food, but he told me our food is so much healthier than his mom's house.  Hamburger Helper.  That kind of stuff.  Or take out from Sonic.  Just rarely a good homecooked meal.  

 

Ok, you have GOT to get over this resentment. However that works, prayer maybe, i don't know. But this is a family member. This is his chance to help his family member with what could become a life or death matter. And you are worried about ice cream? For heavens sake, once a week buy a pint and they can split it. Or take them out for ice cream once a week. But there is no inalienable right to junk food. 

 

Also, just because your s16 isn't overweight, doesn't mean that a daily serving of ice cream or whatever is harmless. It isn't. If you've seen Fed Up, they have a family like yours, where one son is obese and the other isn't. And they do a body scan, and find that the normal weight kid has an abnormal amount of internal body fat, around his organs, that doesn't show up visually. Not to mention the damage that sugar can do to one's liver (fatty liver disease used to be caused only by alcohol, but now it is skyrocketing in non drinkers). 

 

Again, if your one family member were struggling with alcoholism, would you be thinking you should still stock alcohol? 

[kiana]

No but I feel a little resentful that my ds16 can't have ice cream in the house.  

 

And btw, you guys may think I have a house full of junk food, but he told me our food is so much healthier than his mom's house.  Hamburger Helper.  That kind of stuff.  Or take out from Sonic.  Just rarely a good homecooked meal.  

 

I actually don't think your house sounds like that at all.

 

I would talk to your ds and explain how you needed him to help you set dss up for success by not keeping his specific favorite foods around in large quantities. When you go shopping, you can get a smaller container of ice cream that's intended to be eaten immediately instead of trying to keep it constantly on demand. 

 

Edit: My mother was not willing to help me out food-wise, so I gained weight every time I went to visit her for a long time, but my brother was kind enough to only buy snack foods that he knew I hated when I was visiting him, and I appreciated it very much. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by kiana

[Arcadia]

No but I feel a little resentful that my ds16 can't have ice cream in the house.

There are so many other places to eat ice cream (and other tempting food) other than at home. I was skinny and underweight at that age, eating junk food outside the house e.g. on my way home from school/college wasn't a hardship.

 

Just treat it like peanut allergy. My kids cannot bring peanut/nut snacks to an outside class because it is at a nut free (including peanuts) campus. My kids and I just eat any nuts/peanuts snacks after we leave that campus.

[ktgrok]

And no one thinks your house is full of junk food. The truth is, even non junk food can be a trigger for the obese. I buy shredded wheat for my own kids, and I'm old enough to stay out of it, but if one kid could have it and one not, I just wouldn't buy it. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think we expect too much of physicians. Their training is real and thorough but it's tightly focused. I think too often we ask them questions which are really not their realm of expertise. 

 

At the same time, I wish more physicians would just say : this isn't my field of expertise. Please consult a Registered Dietician or a weight loss physician at these certified licenced clinics (or a lactation consultant! How many times they send people out with appallingly poor breastfeeding advice! Grrrr.) 

 

 

They give parenting advice too which quite often is just based on either their cultural biases or their own parenting experience - which is fine but it's about as valid as asking the lady at the bus stop & we should treat it as such, but we don't, because a doctor said it...., kwim? 

 

I totally agree.  I have learned not to expect much.  I once did have a doctor who was very good about saying I don't know, but I'll find out or find out who I can refer you to.  And he did that every time.  He was amazing.

[SparklyUnicorn]

she said Shredded Wheat. Shredded Wheat has 0 sugar added. 

 

(fwiw, I've never found anything labelled muesli that wasn't loaded with sugars, raisins, honey, molasses plus a whole bunch of fats courtesy of nuts) 

 

I've never seen a low sugar Muesli either. 

[ktgrok]

I've never seen a low sugar Muesli either. 

 

Granola is even worse. I was at Trader Joes and the granola was more sugar than the ice cream!!!!

[Guest]

Granola is even worse. I was at Trader Joes and the granola was more sugar than the ice cream!!!!

And I'd pick granola or muesli over ice cream as a treat any day. That stuff is like tasty, tasty crack :(

[SparklyUnicorn]

Granola is even worse. I was at Trader Joes and the granola was more sugar than the ice cream!!!!

 

I know and a lot of people think it's a health food.

I sometimes make a lower carb version.  It's mostly nuts and seeds though and nothing like granola really.  Granola is like candy (which yum...I don't have a big sweet tooth, but if I'm gonna go for something sweet it does appeal to me).

[Scarlett]

Ok I talked to dh.....we are going to address the sleep issue...(did I mention dss hasn't slept in a week) then work a plan with him for eating better and controlling portions.  I am getting up in the morning and making him eggs with spinach and some fruit.  

 

Ds16 is working on cutting back on sugar too..really ice cream is his one big weakness....but I think it will be better for all of us if I don't keep it in the house.  

[ktgrok]

Ok I talked to dh.....we are going to address the sleep issue...(did I mention dss hasn't slept in a week) then work a plan with him for eating better and controlling portions.  I am getting up in the morning and making him eggs with spinach and some fruit.  

 

Ds16 is working on cutting back on sugar too..really ice cream is his one big weakness....but I think it will be better for all of us if I don't keep it in the house.  

 

Oh wow, yes, lack of sleep can totally mess up your appetite and make you hungry. And it triggers fat storage. And good for you. Honestly, we didn't mean to pick on you, but when you've been that kid, that person....there is a ton of trauma there. And no one really really gets it. 

 

And I'd start with food options, not portions. Honestly. If he's hungry, that isn't going to be sustainable. And he probably IS hungry. 

Edited November 2, 2016 by ktgrok

[SparklyUnicorn]

lack of sleep sucks

 

speaking of which I need to go force myself into bed now

 

 

[umsami]

Two books I would recommend that are available at most libraries.

 

Anything by Ellyn Satter. You can also check out her website.  http://ellynsatterinstitute.org/  Basically, you control what types of food you serve, she controls how much.

 

 

Weight Watchers Family Power

 

It focuses on habits that the whole family can adopt, rather than actual weight loss.

 

Definitely work on improving body image, self confidence, etc.  Fat shaming has the opposite effect.  She is beautiful just the way she is.  Look for family activities, start walking together after dinner, family fun runs, biking, hiking, etc.

 

If neither of those work after 2-3 months, ask for a referral to a pediatric endocrinologist. 

 

Remember that not gaining weight at that age is often the same as losing weight due to growth.

 

 

[regentrude]

I've never seen a low sugar Muesli either. 

 

My German muesli (Aldi) has no added sugar. A 60g serving has 6g naturally occurring sugar from dried fruit. And you could easily make muesli without the raisins and cut the sugar further.

[regentrude]

I was responding to her post where she said ".not total junk cereal...but yes the sugar is pretty high."

 

 

(fwiw, I've never found anything labelled muesli that wasn't loaded with sugars, raisins, honey, molasses plus a whole bunch of fats courtesy of nuts) 

 

slightly off topic: I never buy muesli that has added sugar, honey, or molasses. I get mine at Aldi, and you could probably get a wider variety of unsweetened muesli at the health food store. There are raisins (they stopped carrying the one without raisins, sadly). 6g of natural sugar per 60 g is pretty good. You can always pick out the raisins.

And yes, 8g of fat/60g, courtesy of nuts. Don't see what is bad about that - doesn't everybody harp on increasing good fats and protein? 

Edited November 2, 2016 by regentrude

[Katy]

What would you do about kids who don't like apples or carrots? 

Asking seriously. I have a child with sensory issues who will not eat fruit, or anything runny (like eggs, or oatmeal).

It is a challenge.

 

 

I would pick the healthiest two options they will eat only when actually hungry - if they won't eat fruit but will eat veggies, choose broccoli or bell pepper spears.

[Katy]

Scarlett,

 

The answer for DSS is eggs.  3 eggs, beaten with a bit of milk.  Teach him to do this himself.  Get a cheap ceramic nonstick pan from a place like Walmart.  Take frozen pre-chopped veggies (I like kale or chopped spinach and some pepper/onion mix), dump in a bowl, and microwave for 2 minutes. Spray canola oil, set heat to medium, dump in egg mix, cover with lid, and in 2-2.5 minutes, he'll have the perfect omelette.  Mix veggies, dump onto omelette, with a little cheese if he can manage to not binge on it, top with salsa or sriracha.

 

You can also teach him to make a spanish omelette using slices of potato that have been baked and cooled in the fridge earlier in the week instead of fried.  1 large baked potato and three eggs cooked into an omelette have about 500 calories.  Except part of that starch has turned to resistant starch and isn't digestible.  It's also incredibly filling and nutritious.  Topped with a tablespoon of shredded cheese and some sugar free salsa (Aldi) and you have a cheap, healthy, and very filling breakfast.  He might find that after a breakfast like this he is much less likely to eat junk during the day.  I know I am.

[Scarlett]

Scarlett,

 

The answer for DSS is eggs. 3 eggs, beaten with a bit of milk. Teach him to do this himself. Get a cheap ceramic nonstick pan from a place like Walmart. Take frozen pre-chopped veggies (I like kale or chopped spinach and some pepper/onion mix), dump in a bowl, and microwave for 2 minutes. Spray canola oil, set heat to medium, dump in egg mix, cover with lid, and in 2-2.5 minutes, he'll have the perfect omelette. Mix veggies, dump onto omelette, with a little cheese if he can manage to not binge on it, top with salsa or sriracha.

 

You can also teach him to make a spanish omelette using slices of potato that have been baked and cooled in the fridge earlier in the week instead of fried. 1 large baked potato and three eggs cooked into an omelette have about 500 calories. Except part of that starch has turned to resistant starch and isn't digestible. It's also incredibly filling and nutritious. Topped with a tablespoon of shredded cheese and some sugar free salsa (Aldi) and you have a cheap, healthy, and very filling breakfast. He might find that after a breakfast like this he is much less likely to eat junk during the day. I know I am.

I had to smile at the suggestion to teach him to do it himself. This is my cook kid. He is going to be a chef. He knows how to cook a lot of stuff.

 

I do like your idea of adding a baked potatoes to an omelette. I happen t have two left over from supper last night.

 

Btw, he ate very little today. Big bowl of cereal, sandwich for lunch......jambalaya with brown rice for supper....and probably ice cream after services tonight...kids went without us tonight,

[SparklyUnicorn]

I was responding to her post where she said ".not total junk cereal...but yes the sugar is pretty high."

 

 

slightly off topic: I never buy muesli that has added sugar, honey, or molasses. I get mine at Aldi, and you could probably get a wider variety of unsweetened muesli at the health food store. There are raisins (they stopped carrying the one without raisins, sadly). 6g of natural sugar per 60 g is pretty good. You can always pick out the raisins.

And yes, 8g of fat/60g, courtesy of nuts. Don't see what is bad about that - doesn't everybody harp on increasing good fats and protein? 

 

Yes depends on the tactic I guess.  That stuff is also very high in carbs if one wants to watch carbs (which is helpful for some people).  Carbs are only slightly better or not much better than sugar for some people.  And unless it has a ton of fiber, it doesn't really keep me satisfied.  I've tried these high protein cereals before because I like cereal for how easy it is, but that didn't make a difference.  So I assume it's the high carbs.

 

Not saying the OP's kid (or anyone) needs to go that route.  I wouldn't know.  I just know it helps a lot of people to watch carbs and it's not enough to just eat low/no sugar. 

[HomeAgain]

One important thing to note about cereal is it is not a breakfast. Even the companies say it is part of one, not an entire.  Halloween is the biggest holiday in our house and the only time we really eat cereal (I buy the three: Count Chocula, Booberry, and Frankenberry) The kids eat a bowl, then a banana, hardboiled egg (or greek yogurt), and glass of lots of pulp orange juice.  When my oldest was about 12 we had a terrible set of dishes and he'd fill a bowl with Cheerios and eat only that, then feel starving an hour later.  We finally measured the bowls and they held 2.5 cups! We bought all new dishes: shallow bowls, plates with a decorative rim stripe, 6oz glasses.  Instead of one "serving", now it was an actual serving size and more required getting up, going to the kitchen again, pulling out the food, filling the dish, putting the food away, and sitting down to eat.  We don't keep storage containers on the table.  Fruit and veggies are kept on the counter, though, to make it feel easy enough to add to a meal.

[Bluegoat]

I think the Forks over Knives people & the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine would disagree.   

 

The Forks Over KNives people aren't where I'd go looking for dietary advice.

[poppy]

I would pick the healthiest two options they will eat only when actually hungry - if they won't eat fruit but will eat veggies, choose broccoli or bell pepper spears.

 

My question about carrot sticks and bell pepper sticks and broccoli.... there are very few calories in those foods.  Will not provide  nourishment or energy.

Or are you saying, snacking should just satisfy the urge to chew but not provide any actual sustenance?

[Bluegoat]

One important thing to note about cereal is it is not a breakfast. Even the companies say it is part of one, not an entire.  Halloween is the biggest holiday in our house and the only time we really eat cereal (I buy the three: Count Chocula, Booberry, and Frankenberry) The kids eat a bowl, then a banana, hardboiled egg (or greek yogurt), and glass of lots of pulp orange juice.  When my oldest was about 12 we had a terrible set of dishes and he'd fill a bowl with Cheerios and eat only that, then feel starving an hour later.  We finally measured the bowls and they held 2.5 cups! We bought all new dishes: shallow bowls, plates with a decorative rim stripe, 6oz glasses.  Instead of one "serving", now it was an actual serving size and more required getting up, going to the kitchen again, pulling out the food, filling the dish, putting the food away, and sitting down to eat.  We don't keep storage containers on the table.  Fruit and veggies are kept on the counter, though, to make it feel easy enough to add to a meal.

 

Yeah, I one of my kids just eat cereal for breakfast, by ten they are hungry and cranky, even if they eat a lot of it.  If I give an actual serving size, along with something like cheese or an egg or ham, and some fruit, they are good until lunch. 

 

I usually have shredded wheat, the big ones, but I heat them up with quite a lot of butter and some brown sugar and milk.  I am pretty sure if I somehow managed just to eat the cereal, I would not find it filling at all.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Although see not everyone could hack a breakfast of cereal with a side of a banana, glass of orange juice, and some toast (like often pictured on the cereal boxes growing up as an example of a complete breakfast).  Sure...sugar, sugar, some more sugar, with a side of sugar and carbs.  How is this a complete breakfast? 

 

I would be starving and clawing at the walls within an hour or two after that.

 

 

[Katy]

My question about carrot sticks and bell pepper sticks and broccoli.... there are very few calories in those foods.  Will not provide  nourishment or energy.

Or are you saying, snacking should just satisfy the urge to chew but not provide any actual sustenance?

 

My honest answer is that no one over the age of 6 who has a normal metabolism (ie:  no eating disorders, no low weight due to a medical condition like lead poisoning, no diabetes, etc)  needs a snack at all in most cases.  When I was young, I was rarely allowed to snack for fear of "ruining your dinner."  And while these foods are NOT calorically dense, they are extremely nutrient dense. Sometimes when you have an urge to munch, you need vitamins and phytonutrients and fiber, not "energy."  It is much easier to direct a hungry child to high-nutrient low-calorie foods when (s)he has the urge to snack than to listen to them whining about being hungry.  If they don't snack, and they are offered proper amounts of protein, fiber, and vegetables at meals, they won't need to snack.

 

If a child is actually hungry, if they need more food due to being about to go into a growth spurt or something, they will eat raw vegetables.  If they are bored and want something processed but are not hungry, they will not be interested in fruits and vegetables, even if they'll eat a whole box of goldfish crackers if provided.  If they are so hungry that celery sounds good, after they take the first bite grabbing them a spoonful of almond butter and some raisins to give the celery some extra calories is easy enough. Offering a healthy, low-calorie option is a good way to suss out whether they are actually hungry OR if they just want some sugar as a way to entertain themselves.  You can always add a bit of string cheese to carrot sticks, or peanut butter or nuts or anything else that is healthy and low-or-not processed when the child shows they are actually hungry by eating something like fruit or vegetables first.

 

It turns out that all this constant snacking doesn't keep blood sugar steady, it just raises your insulin level chronically.  Constantly high insulin leads to insulin resistance and constant hunger. Offering sugar and high calories in response to this only makes it worse.

[regentrude]

Although see not everyone could hack a breakfast of cereal with a side of a banana, glass of orange juice, and some toast (like often pictured on the cereal boxes growing up as an example of a complete breakfast).  Sure...sugar, sugar, some more sugar, with a side of sugar and carbs.  How is this a complete breakfast? 

 

I would be starving and clawing at the walls within an hour or two after that.

 

But most people don't eat the cereal dry. They put something in it. With yoghurt, for example, you add a lot of protein (and fat if you choose a whole milk version). A cup of greek yoghurt has 23 g of protein. That's as much as four eggs.

My breakfast is cereal (muesli with nuts and dried fruit, no added sugar), whole milk yoghurt, fresh or frozen fruit. Perfectly satisfying until lunch.

Edited November 2, 2016 by regentrude

[Scarlett]

My honest answer is that no one over the age of 6 who has a normal metabolism (ie: no eating disorders, no low weight due to a medical condition like lead poisoning, no diabetes, etc) needs a snack at all in most cases. When I was young, I was rarely allowed to snack for fear of "ruining your dinner." And while these foods are NOT calorically dense, they are extremely nutrient dense. Sometimes when you have an urge to munch, you need vitamins and phytonutrients and fiber, not "energy." It is much easier to direct a hungry child to high-nutrient low-calorie foods when (s)he has the urge to snack than to listen to them whining about being hungry. If they don't snack, and they are offered proper amounts of protein, fiber, and vegetables at meals, they won't need to snack.

 

If a child is actually hungry, if they need more food due to being about to go into a growth spurt or something, they will eat raw vegetables. If they are bored and want something processed but are not hungry, they will not be interested in fruits and vegetables, even if they'll eat a whole box of goldfish crackers if provided. If they are so hungry that celery sounds good, after they take the first bite grabbing them a spoonful of almond butter and some raisins to give the celery some extra calories is easy enough. Offering a healthy, low-calorie option is a good way to suss out whether they are actually hungry OR if they just want some sugar as a way to entertain themselves. You can always add a bit of string cheese to carrot sticks, or peanut butter or nuts or anything else that is healthy and low-or-not processed when the child shows they are actually hungry by eating something like fruit or vegetables first.

 

It turns out that all this constant snacking doesn't keep blood sugar steady, it just raises your insulin level chronically. Constantly high insulin leads to insulin resistance and constant hunger. Offering sugar and high calories in response to this only makes it worse.

There is a lot of truth s I think.

 

I am a carb addict......I could eat tortilla chips all day long. I have to keep them out of the house. When I focus on high protein, lots of good veggies and some cheese and olives or other good fat food I do a lot better.

 

I cook a lot of meals that involve grilled chicken/ fish/pork chop/ a huge amount of green veggie/ rice or potato and a little bit of bread. We had leftover meatloaf because the nigh before I had put away a third of it before the boys came to the kitchen. Otherwise they would have eaten every bite. Also I stopped toasting an entire French loaf.....I only do half at a time so they dont at it all at one meal.

 

The other morning I made a pound of sausage (8 patties) and 9 biscuits....and eggs. I thought Dh and dss could have 2 each and I would have some left over for ds16 the next morning since he leaves for school so early....before I could turn around every bite was gone. I couldn't believe it.

[kiana]

For what it's worth, having foods around that I didn't hate but that I was really "meh" about really helped me as an adult figure out whether I was hungry or whether I just wanted to eat. If I was hungry for toast with jam but not hungry for tuna and green beans, I wasn't actually hungry. 

 

Fruits weren't effective with this though. I can eat literal pounds of fruits and depending on the fruit, that can add up to quite a lot. Nowhere near as much as potato chips of course, but still enough to be problematic. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

My honest answer is that no one over the age of 6 who has a normal metabolism (ie:  no eating disorders, no low weight due to a medical condition like lead poisoning, no diabetes, etc)  needs a snack at all in most cases.  When I was young, I was rarely allowed to snack for fear of "ruining your dinner."  And while these foods are NOT calorically dense, they are extremely nutrient dense. Sometimes when you have an urge to munch, you need vitamins and phytonutrients and fiber, not "energy."  It is much easier to direct a hungry child to high-nutrient low-calorie foods when (s)he has the urge to snack than to listen to them whining about being hungry.  If they don't snack, and they are offered proper amounts of protein, fiber, and vegetables at meals, they won't need to snack.

 

If a child is actually hungry, if they need more food due to being about to go into a growth spurt or something, they will eat raw vegetables.  If they are bored and want something processed but are not hungry, they will not be interested in fruits and vegetables, even if they'll eat a whole box of goldfish crackers if provided.  If they are so hungry that celery sounds good, after they take the first bite grabbing them a spoonful of almond butter and some raisins to give the celery some extra calories is easy enough. Offering a healthy, low-calorie option is a good way to suss out whether they are actually hungry OR if they just want some sugar as a way to entertain themselves.  You can always add a bit of string cheese to carrot sticks, or peanut butter or nuts or anything else that is healthy and low-or-not processed when the child shows they are actually hungry by eating something like fruit or vegetables first.

 

It turns out that all this constant snacking doesn't keep blood sugar steady, it just raises your insulin level chronically.  Constantly high insulin leads to insulin resistance and constant hunger. Offering sugar and high calories in response to this only makes it worse.

 

I think this really depends on the kid and the individual situation.  To me it's not supposed to be this difficult.  But for some people, for one reason or another it is.  Like you saying if they are hungry enough they'll eat XYZ.  No some kids won't.  No matter what you do.  Saying well just get tough about it, hold out until they just comply....that can be quite frustrating if the kid is just not going to do that. 

I agree on the snacking, but that has gotten a little weird because it's pushed everywhere.  Locally kids are given snacks at school and breaks for snacks.  We didn't have that growing up. 

 

I was looking at various diet plans yesterday and what struck me was the 5-6 times a day they claim you should eat.  I'd rather eat 2-3 very satisfy meals than pick all day.  Seems like there isn't time to digest! 

 

But, again, everyone is different which is why it's so hard to give one size fits all advice. 

[Scarlett]

But most people don't eat the cereal dry. They put something in it. With yoghurt, for example, you add a lot of protein (and fat if you choose a whole milk version). A cup of greek yoghurt has 23 g of protein. That's as much as four eggs.

My breakfast is cereal (muesli with nuts and dried fruit, no added sugar), whole milk yoghurt, fresh or frozen fruit. Perfectly satisfying until lunch.

I like 1/2 cup of Greek yogurt, fruit, and either 8 pecan half or 2 tbles of granola. Keeps me full for at least 3 hours.

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

The other morning I made a pound of sausage (8 patties) and 9 biscuits....and eggs. I thought Dh and dss could have 2 each and I would have some left over for ds16 the next morning since he leaves for school so early....before I could turn around every bite was gone. I couldn't believe it.

 

Story of my life.  I like to make extra food so I don't have to cook so often.  What often ends up happening is people just eat more.  My husband is the biggest offender.  I have to wrap stuff up and hide it.  Luckily he is not generally willing to search through the fridge.  LOL

[Scarlett]

I think this really depends on the kid and the individual situation. To me it's not supposed to be this difficult. But for some people, for one reason or another it is. Like you saying if they are hungry enough they'll eat XYZ. No some kids won't. No matter what you do. Saying well just get tough about it, hold out until they just comply....that can be quite frustrating if the kid is just not going to do that.

I agree on the snacking, but that has gotten a little weird because it's pushed everywhere. Locally kids are given snacks at school and breaks for snacks. We didn't have that growing up.

 

I was looking at various diet plans yesterday and what struck me was the 5-6 times a day they claim you should eat. I'd rather eat 2-3 very satisfy meals than pick all day. Seems like there isn't time to digest!

 

But, again, everyone is different which is why it's so hard to give one size fits all advice.

We didn't snack growing up.

 

Ds16 comes in sometimes while I am cooking dinner and is starving....I tell him to grab a yogurt or cheese stick or peanut butter sandwich. He won't make a sandwich bcause it takes too long....but h will usually grab a yogurt or cheese stick.

[kiana]

I was looking at various diet plans yesterday and what struck me was the 5-6 times a day they claim you should eat.  I'd rather eat 2-3 very satisfy meals than pick all day.  Seems like there isn't time to digest! 

 

But, again, everyone is different which is why it's so hard to give one size fits all advice. 

 

The "you need to eat 6 times a day" drives me batty. If I ate small meals 6 times a day I would be constantly hungry, constantly thinking about food, constantly wondering where my next meal was going to come from, planning what I was going to eat when, and so on. Plus it's constantly cooking little tiny bits or eating a lot of prepared foods. 

 

Now, if eating that frequently makes you happy and your mind and body thrive on it, awesome. You found what works for you and that's great! But the way it's being prescribed as the best way to eat annoys the heck out of me. 

[Scarlett]

When Xh and I first got married he was 19. EVery night for YEARS I would make him a peanut butter and honey sandwich and big glass of milk before bed. He didn't start gaining weight until he was close to 30. People really are different.

 

I weigh more than I ever had and I am still (barely) in normal BMI range. Ds16 is right in the middle. Dh and dss both in obese range. The way they are both built though I dont think they will ever be in the 'normal' range.

[SparklyUnicorn]

We didn't snack growing up.

 

Ds16 comes in sometimes while I am cooking dinner and is starving....I tell him to grab a yogurt or cheese stick or peanut butter sandwich. He won't make a sandwich bcause it takes too long....but h will usually grab a yogurt or cheese stick.

 

Yeah I think maybe once a month I remembered to bring an apple for recess.  That was it.  I made my own lunch early on and it was whatever I could scratch together.  A snack often didn't make the cut.  Laziness prevailed!  LOL

[regentrude]

The other morning I made a pound of sausage (8 patties) and 9 biscuits....and eggs. I thought Dh and dss could have 2 each and I would have some left over for ds16 the next morning since he leaves for school so early....before I could turn around every bite was gone. I couldn't believe it.

 

Male teenagers are bottomless pits. My DS consumes 4,000 calories per day when he is training.

The concept of "leftover" is nonexistent at my house.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

The "you need to eat 6 times a day" drives me batty. If I ate small meals 6 times a day I would be constantly hungry, constantly thinking about food, constantly wondering where my next meal was going to come from, planning what I was going to eat when, and so on. Plus it's constantly cooking little tiny bits or eating a lot of prepared foods. 

 

Now, if eating that frequently makes you happy and your mind and body thrive on it, awesome. You found what works for you and that's great! But the way it's being prescribed as the best way to eat annoys the heck out of me. 

 

Oh yeah who has time for that!  I sort of do since I'm home during the day usually, but still I don't want to be preparing food 6 x a day. 

 

Agreed.  Maybe some people do well on it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

When Xh and I first got married he was 19. EVery night for YEARS I would make him a peanut butter and honey sandwich and big glass of milk before bed. He didn't start gaining weight until he was close to 30. People really are different.

 

I weigh more than I ever had and I am still (barely) in normal BMI range. Ds16 is right in the middle. Dh and dss both in obese range. The way they are both built though I dont think they will ever be in the 'normal' range.

 

Don't you hate that?!  I'm jealous!!

 

 

[TechWife]

My question about carrot sticks and bell pepper sticks and broccoli.... there are very few calories in those foods.  Will not provide  nourishment or energy.

Or are you saying, snacking should just satisfy the urge to chew but not provide any actual sustenance?

 

Carrot sticks, bell peppers and broccoli are nourishing. They have tons of nutrients. At little calorie cost, it's a great way to provide a  snack without ruining a healthy way of life. People who eat these vegetables do get the benefit of having something nutritious.

[regentrude]

I agree on the snacking, but that has gotten a little weird because it's pushed everywhere.  Locally kids are given snacks at school and breaks for snacks.  We didn't have that growing up. 

 

I was looking at various diet plans yesterday and what struck me was the 5-6 times a day they claim you should eat.  I'd rather eat 2-3 very satisfy meals than pick all day.  Seems like there isn't time to digest!

 

The traditional way to eat back home was five meals per day.

1. Breakfast at home before school, around 6:30am.

2. Second breakfast at school. Kids brought sandwiches, apples, yoghurt.  There is a longer break between periods around 9am so kids have time to eat this.

3. Lunch between noon and 1pm. Warm cooked meal.

4. Afternoon meal between 3 and 4. Usually something baked. Yes, even if you're in hospital they will serve the afternoon meal.

5. Dinner around 7pm. Sandwiches/salad/veggies