Help me make sense of this childhood experience, children and people

[MamaBearTeacher]

In early childhood I had an experience where another child was extremely physically violent towards me within seconds of meeting me. All I did was say hello and there was nothing to warrant her vicious behavior.

 

Although I have always felt wary of her, circumstances forced me to spend quite a bit of time with her until I became an adult and I still see her from time to time. In later childhood she was nonviolent but sometimes tried to get me to do things I did not want. In adolescence she was very nice and warm most of the time but sometimes could be very mean. She sometimes came across as.snobby and would try to ostracize other girls by calling them sluts based on what they wore. She was very social and really impressed adults with her friendliness. As an adult, she is very friendly, warm helpful and kind but I keep my distance. I just don't feel trust.

 

In later childhood I was.told that she was so violent to me because she was only little and did not know any better. One might think she was mistreated or abused but she came from a very kind, calm, down to earth family. I knew her family and it's hard to imagine any of them being mean. She was always a socially intelligent child and not delayed in any way.

 

I am a person who really believes in the inherent goodness of children. I have never seen a child that I thought was in any way bad. I have worked with young children and having been a mom I have never seen a child that age exhibit anything coming close to that level of violence. Young children always seem so kind. That's why I have trouble making sense of her behavior.

[38carrots]

How old were you? Early childhood memories aren't always reliable. There could be a trigger for her behavior that you are not aware of.

 

:grouphug: It sounds very traumatic.

[Guest]

I might be able to pipe up when I have a real keyboard.

[ktgrok]

Agreed, how old? Maybe her grandma had died that day and she was upset. Maybe she had asked for a dress she wanted and was told no, and then saw you wearing the dress. Many times small children do things for weird reasons. Now, if you were 10, not 4, that would be different. 

[Janeway]

In early childhood I had an experience where another child was extremely physically violent towards me within seconds of meeting me. All I did was say hello and there was nothing to warrant her vicious behavior.

 

Although I have always felt wary of her, circumstances forced me to spend quite a bit of time with her until I became an adult and I still see her from time to time. In later childhood she was nonviolent but sometimes tried to get me to do things I did not want. In adolescence she was very nice and warm most of the time but sometimes could be very mean. She sometimes came across as.snobby and would try to ostracize other girls by calling them sluts based on what they wore. She was very social and really impressed adults with her friendliness. As an adult, she is very friendly, warm helpful and kind but I keep my distance. I just don't feel trust.

 

In later childhood I was.told that she was so violent to me because she was only little and did not know any better. One might think she was mistreated or abused but she came from a very kind, calm, down to earth family. I knew her family and it's hard to imagine any of them being mean. She was always a socially intelligent child and not delayed in any way.

 

I am a person who really believes in the inherent goodness of children. I have never seen a child that I thought was in any way bad. I have worked with young children and having been a mom I have never seen a child that age exhibit anything coming close to that level of violence. Young children always seem so kind. That's why I have trouble making sense of her behavior.

I would not have thought she was mistreated based on her behavior. It sounds like she has mental health issues. Sounds like she possibly had conduct disorder in childhood. Which leads to other issues in adulthood.

[maize]

Maybe she was tired and overwhelmed and her blood sugar was low.

 

I have one or two who can be unpredictably violent under similar circumstances.

 

Since it wasn't a pattern of behavior, I wouldn't see it as part of her personality or character.

Edited September 15, 2016 by maize

[ktgrok]

My oldest was violent as a small child. Often at age 3-4. Then at 5 yrs old, he punched a random stranger in the communion line at church. Totally sucker punched the guy in the stomach as he walked by. (we never went back to the church, by the way). 6 years later he was diagnosed with Aspergers, as well as ADHD and depression. Everyday life was just HARD for him. And sometimes that came out in violence. 

 

But at 17 he is not violent, he's fun, he is social, he has friends, etc. What kids do when very young doesn't have much to do with who they are as adults. 

[Guest]

..

Edited September 16, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[Carol in Cal.]

I was in a parent coop preschool for 3 1/2 years with DD, so I saw a lot of 3-5 year olds up close and personal, and I thought I was pretty good at seeing violence coming and preventing until this one boy...he was just, I dunno, nuts.  He did very dangerous things to other kids, and you couldn't see it coming in his face--completely deadpan.  It was remarkable in a 4 year old.  I never found out what caused this, but it was pretty chilling, and quite continuous.  I expect to see his name in the paper someday, and not in a good way.  He was a scary little person, and one of the two main reasons I didn't have DD continue into that elementary school.

 

ETA:  For example, you know those very heavy sticks that you beat together in Cuban music?  He jogged inside, grabbed one, jogged back outside again, and as he was going past, bashed another boy in the face with it with all his strength.  The boy was bruised for weeks, and very fortunate I think not to have broken nose.

 

Or once he pulled a preschool parachute down around a girl's head and tried to choke/suffocate her.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Carol in Cal.

[Ausmumof3]

How old were you? I don't typically find all young children to be kind without teaching and at age two I had one who would push other kids over for no apparent reason. We dealt with it and he learned not to, but I think it's quite idealistic to think all young children are kind. The older behaviour is more concerning but again a lot of teens can be quite nasty and still grow into decent adults.

However I would tend to listen to a gut instinct to the degree of not becoming overly close. Keep friendly but don't give information that you don't want shared and don't leave your kids in her care kind of thing. If there's anything there you'll see it at some point and no you were right and if not no harm done.

[J-rap]

Maybe there is some kind of mental disorder going on.  I wouldn't overthink it.

[SKL]

Maybe her mom had just denied her something on the basis that she had to go entertain you, her guest.  So she took out all her frustration on you.

 

I've known kids who went through a "mean" phase, pushing kids down, biting, stuff like that.  I don't know that it's a predictor of future personality.

 

That said, if you always feel wary around this person, trust your gut and keep her at arm's length.

[gardenmom5]

just because someone is a child doesn't mean they do NOT have something chemically (or structurally) going on in their brain that can cause warped reactions.

[MamaBearTeacher]

she was 5 and I spent a lot if time with her later on and she was not mentally ill or even a person who had trouble dealing with emotions. She was very stable. she was very violent and it was not frustration, like throwing things or kicking. And later in adolescence there were times she could be very mean, though most of the time she was nice.

[38carrots]

she was 5 and I spent a lot if time with her later on and she was not mentally ill or even a person who had trouble dealing with emotions. She was very stable. she was very violent and it was not frustration, like throwing things or kicking. And later in adolescence there were times she could be very mean, though most of the time she was nice.

 

Were you 5 as well?

 

Being occasionally mean in adolescence doesn't really amount to anything. It seems like you are saying she is a generally nice, stable person who was violent towards you on one occasion when she was 5? And you are asking why she would do this? Could be so many reasons, none of them being related to mental illness or disorder. She could have had just a really bad day. Or imagined you were an evil alien. Or she had an intense stomach ache and didn't know how to deal. Anything, really.

 

We can speculate all we want, but there's no way to find out for sure, even if she also remembers the incident. Memories tend to shift quite significantly. Have you asked her if she remembers, btw?

[Guest]

Janeway above said pretty much what I was going to say.  

 

I've had two experiences with this in my life, one involving me and one involving my son.  

 

In my situation, it was a friend of the family.  The other girl, call her XYZ, was always shoulder-, arm- and back-punching me, out-of-norm for age appropriate behavior, and just sort of off-ness.  My mom made me play with her because she felt sorry for her, but after awhile I told my mom why I didn't want to play with her, and she didn't insist on it anymore.  The school did what they could in very strong ways to help her fit in, to find her way.  After graduation from high school, she basically moved into her parents' basement and managed to work a back-room job for about 20 years.  Then she went on disability because of morbid obesity (400 pounds or more) and no longer leaves the house.  She has been isolated all her life, never brought home a friend, never went out.  It was so sad, but it wasn't for lack of attention or caring.  It just...was.  

 

In my son's situation, we were at a yard party and the 4yo son of a friend's sister picked up a croquet mallet and walked over to my son and swung it right at his head, hitting him in the temple.  He could have killed him.  Adults were running as fast as they could, but you know how it is like the underwater running in nightmares?  That.  Anyway, my dh has NEVER done anything like this, but he forbade our family from attending any event at which this kid would be in attendance.  That was quite a difficult message to deliver as it meant a lot of exclusion one way or another.  Now, 20 years later, that kid is working (or not) in the back rooms of grocery stores, having been a hellion to raise and kicked out of his parents' house after offering to kill the mom.  

 

Last year I went to my high school 40th.  I asked about 3 boys who had graduated with us, but who (in the grade school years in particular) had been mean to others.  All three had done / were doing time, one of them for child molestation.  

 

These are the examples I have.  I will not say that every kid who exhibits violence or offness grows up to have problems--and I will say that I think we are much more aware of what to do to help out now than we were when I was a kid, but it seems that there are some kids who just have a rough go of it from the start.  I don't know about the families of the three from my high school, but I do about the first 2 and they were good families, at least as far as anyone can tell.  

 

 

[wapiti]

Perhaps there was some form of neuropsychiatric issue going on with her at the time of the 5 y.o. behavior.  There are too many possibilities to speculate on her condition 20, 30, 40 yrs ago.  (E.g. there are even neuropsychiatric violent rage types of issues that can be caused by various infections/reactions.)  I'm not sure why it would matter now.

Edited September 16, 2016 by wapiti

[Jean in Newcastle]

What does violence mean?  It is so hard to answer without knowing if it is within the norms of five year old behavior.  Not all children are sweetness and light.  Even normally developed mentally stable ones. 

[maize]

Janeway above said pretty much what I was going to say.

 

I've had two experiences with this in my life, one involving me and one involving my son.

 

In my situation, it was a friend of the family. The other girl, call her XYZ, was always shoulder-, arm- and back-punching me, out-of-norm for age appropriate behavior, and just sort of off-ness. My mom made me play with her because she felt sorry for her, but after awhile I told my mom why I didn't want to play with her, and she didn't insist on it anymore. The school did what they could in very strong ways to help her fit in, to find her way. After graduation from high school, she basically moved into her parents' basement and managed to work a back-room job for about 20 years. Then she went on disability because of morbid obesity (400 pounds or more) and no longer leaves the house. She has been isolated all her life, never brought home a friend, never went out. It was so sad, but it wasn't for lack of attention or caring. It just...was.

 

In my son's situation, we were at a yard party and the 4yo son of a friend's sister picked up a croquet mallet and walked over to my son and swung it right at his head, hitting him in the temple. He could have killed him. Adults were running as fast as they could, but you know how it is like the underwater running in nightmares? That. Anyway, my dh has NEVER done anything like this, but he forbade our family from attending any event at which this kid would be in attendance. That was quite a difficult message to deliver as it meant a lot of exclusion one way or another. Now, 20 years later, that kid is working (or not) in the back rooms of grocery stores, having been a hellion to raise and kicked out of his parents' house after offering to kill the mom.

 

Last year I went to my high school 40th. I asked about 3 boys who had graduated with us, but who (in the grade school years in particular) had been mean to others. All three had done / were doing time, one of them for child molestation.

 

These are the examples I have. I will not say that every kid who exhibits violence or offness grows up to have problems--and I will say that I think we are much more aware of what to do to help out now than we were when I was a kid, but it seems that there are some kids who just have a rough go of it from the start. I don't know about the families of the three from my high school, but I do about the first 2 and they were good families, at least as far as anyone can tell.

I have a hard time seeing the relevance of your examples--they deal with kids with serious ongoing behavioral issues, while it seems that OP is recounting a one-time, out of character incident.

 

One of my younger brothers once threw a hearth brush at my sister's head, she had blood gushing everywhere and had to go to the ER for stitches.

 

He grew up to be an extremely nice, responsible adult.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Young children can have poor impulse control.  Sometimes it is indicative of something like ADHD.  Sometimes it is much more random and is not part of a pattern of behavior. 

[Ausmumof3]

Janeway above said pretty much what I was going to say.

 

I've had two experiences with this in my life, one involving me and one involving my son.

 

In my situation, it was a friend of the family. The other girl, call her XYZ, was always shoulder-, arm- and back-punching me, out-of-norm for age appropriate behavior, and just sort of off-ness. My mom made me play with her because she felt sorry for her, but after awhile I told my mom why I didn't want to play with her, and she didn't insist on it anymore. The school did what they could in very strong ways to help her fit in, to find her way. After graduation from high school, she basically moved into her parents' basement and managed to work a back-room job for about 20 years. Then she went on disability because of morbid obesity (400 pounds or more) and no longer leaves the house. She has been isolated all her life, never brought home a friend, never went out. It was so sad, but it wasn't for lack of attention or caring. It just...was.

 

In my son's situation, we were at a yard party and the 4yo son of a friend's sister picked up a croquet mallet and walked over to my son and swung it right at his head, hitting him in the temple. He could have killed him. Adults were running as fast as they could, but you know how it is like the underwater running in nightmares? That. Anyway, my dh has NEVER done anything like this, but he forbade our family from attending any event at which this kid would be in attendance. That was quite a difficult message to deliver as it meant a lot of exclusion one way or another. Now, 20 years later, that kid is working (or not) in the back rooms of grocery stores, having been a hellion to raise and kicked out of his parents' house after offering to kill the mom.

 

Last year I went to my high school 40th. I asked about 3 boys who had graduated with us, but who (in the grade school years in particular) had been mean to others. All three had done / were doing time, one of them for child molestation.

 

These are the examples I have. I will not say that every kid who exhibits violence or offness grows up to have problems--and I will say that I think we are much more aware of what to do to help out now than we were when I was a kid, but it seems that there are some kids who just have a rough go of it from the start. I don't know about the families of the three from my high school, but I do about the first 2 and they were good families, at least as far as anyone can tell.

I'm not disagreeing with you but that's seriously depressing. That any kid with out of the ordinary violence as a kid will turn out wrong no matter what.

[MistyMountain]

I have seen kids especially little ones have violent behavior. I saw a documentary on it once on it and it is extremely common behavior in toddlers and lasts into preschool age and longer for lots of kids. It generally gets better over time especially with good teaching in kids without emotional issues. Kids that young are still in a very ego centric developmental stage. Mean behavior every once in a while in teens is also pretty common. I would not judge someone for life for something that happen at 5 or think they are just a bad seed or evil.

Edited September 16, 2016 by MistyMountain

[Guest]

I'm not disagreeing with you but that's seriously depressing. That any kid with out of the ordinary violence as a kid will turn out wrong no matter what.

 

I agree.  I'm not pretending to know that this is true and most ardently hope it is not.  And I'm not talking about a  temper-punch or so on.  It was disheartening to know what happened to those three boys from my class, that's for sure.  My high school class was not enormous (like 250 people) and yet we had 5 suicides within 5 years of graduation, 3 drug overdose deaths, and then these incarcerations, which I just learned about.  That's very high on all counts, if you ask me, and maybe there was an environmental cause or something.  :0(

[Guest]

I have a hard time seeing the relevance of your examples--they deal with kids with serious ongoing behavioral issues, while it seems that OP is recounting a one-time, out of character incident.

 

One of my younger brothers once threw a hearth brush at my sister's head, she had blood gushing everywhere and had to go to the ER for stitches.

 

He grew up to be an extremely nice, responsible adult.

 

I'm sorry if they were irrelevant.  That is very likely true.  It has been an astonishing couple of years for me, learning what has happened with people from my class.  I don't know the stories of all the "mean kids."  And as you said, these were recurring meannesses, not one-offs, and not temper fits.  They were deliberate actions.  And therein may lie a big difference.  Nevertheless, these things did happen.  These people are not beyond redemption even now, and I don't count them as such. 

[maize]

I agree. I'm not pretending to know that this is true and most ardently hope it is not. And I'm not talking about a temper-punch or so on. It was disheartening to know what happened to those three boys from my class, that's for sure. My high school class was not enormous (like 250 people) and yet we had 5 suicides within 5 years of graduation, 3 drug overdose deaths, and then these incarcerations, which I just learned about. That's very high on all counts, if you ask me, and maybe there was an environmental cause or something. :0(

Lead exposure could cause a lot of this.

[OneStepAtATime]

OP I am sorry this has haunted you.   :grouphug:

 

I agree, though, that a bad incident with a 5 year old is not indicative of much of anything, even if later on, periodically, she also exhibited what seemed like mean behavior upon occasion while usually being a nice person.  People make mistakes.  People have bad days.  People sometimes have impulse control issues.  And definitely 5 year olds can have those issues yet their reactions don't usually reflect what they are genuinely feeling under normal circumstances or who they will be as an adult.  If she were violent fairly often, and that violence escalated and continued into adulthood, THAT would be seriously concerning.

 

Let me share an example from my childhood.  I am not a violent person AT ALL.  I normally get along with nearly everyone and very little makes me truly angry.  However, as a young girl (maybe 6?) I had a pretty violent reaction to another child, and it was not rational in any way, shape or form.  She was older, maybe 11 or 12, but small for her age and very skinny.  She was somewhat dismissive of us younger kids so she and I knew each other but we were not friends.  

 

Anyway, I had been watering a flower in our yard for weeks because I thought it was pretty.  It was a wild flower (maybe even a weed) and I loved it.  She was waiting for a friend and was in our yard.  She sat on my flower.  I demanded she get off my flower.  She ignored me.  I demanded again, much more loudly.  She refused to get off my flower and may have said something about the flower not being important and she would be leaving soon anyway or something along those lines.  I came unglued.  I lunged at her, I tried to choke her, I hit her and I bit very hard into her arm.  I was not rational in any way.  I must have looked like a lunatic.  I scared her to death.  Is that my normal behavior?  Not at all.  Not even remotely.  But on that day, at that particular time, I lost my ability to control my reactions.  Did I grow up to be a serial killer?  Nope.  Did I end up living in my parent's basement, unable to gain friends?  Nope.  But the poor girl I attacked probably thought the worst of me and if my family hadn't moved away a few months later her feelings towards me and our future interactions might have always been colored by that incident.  I felt terrible about it afterwards but I never had the courage to go to her and apologize.  

 

OP, since you are still sort of around this person, do you think it would help you to just talk to her about it?  Ask her what her recollections are of that day, if she has any? 

Edited September 16, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[Ausmumof3]

I agree. I'm not pretending to know that this is true and most ardently hope it is not. And I'm not talking about a temper-punch or so on. It was disheartening to know what happened to those three boys from my class, that's for sure. My high school class was not enormous (like 250 people) and yet we had 5 suicides within 5 years of graduation, 3 drug overdose deaths, and then these incarcerations, which I just learned about. That's very high on all counts, if you ask me, and maybe there was an environmental cause or something. :0(

I don't want to like your post because it's too sad. But yes, lead poisoning can cause some of this.

[SunshineMom]

We are not responsible for the actions of others.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Jewels