I cannot find a dentist / ? regarding x-ray policy

[Liz CA]

I have been told by several dentist offices that dentists cannot see anyone without taking x-rays. Can anyone in the know confirm this or am I being spun a line so they can charge for x-rays?

 

I am trying to find a dentist that will do a visual check and a cleaning without x-rays. Due to prior illness I have been x-rayed so many times that one of my doctors once said unless I suspect a broken bone, I should not get any more x-rays.

 

I have good teeth material and cannot even remember when I had my last filling. I am willing to sign whatever waiver acknowledging that they cannot see through my gums and detect anything other than is visible on the surface. Good Grief. Deep breath and all that.

 

 

[J-rap]

It's true that most new dental visits require x-rays.  However, I do remember one time when a dentist cleaned our teeth without requiring x-rays.  We already had a home dentist who did all of that, and were really only looking for a cleaning.  (We were kind of living in two cities at the time, and our "home" dentist was in the other city.)

 

But, it was at a big clinic that did everything -- medical, dental, etc.  So, it really was not a big deal for them whether we wanted x-rays or not.  They were happy to do just the cleaning, really.

 

Maybe it depends on if it's a private clinic or a big medical center.

[Farrar]

I have seen dentists without being x-rayed - new ones to me.

 

I suppose it might be a state by state rule? Or, more likely, a dental insurance rule? If you're willing to pay out of pocket, you might go to a non-insurance dentist. A cleaning often isn't that expensive in and of itself. Around me, there are more and more places catering to lower income people, I've noticed. Places that seem clean and friendly, but are clearly focused on lower cost maintenance care. I'd be really surprised if any of them are forcing patients to do an initial x-ray.

[hornblower]

this article explains that dentists are possible liable for malpractice if they fail to diagnose something which they could only diagnose through an xray. 

"It should be understood that even if you have a patient sign a form stating he or she willingly refuses X-rays, no patient can give his or her consent for the dentist to be negligent. If a radiograph is not taken when it is needed for proper diagnosis, and a serious dental problem later arises, the doctor could become entangled in a legal mess.

Patients have the choice of whether or not to proceed with recommended treatment. Patients can refuse any diagnostic test or treatment, including resuscitation, cancer treatment, or dental X-rays. However, doctors cannot provide care for patients based on an incomplete diagnosis without becoming subject to liability for failure to diagnose or treat existing conditions. This is a serious matter for the doctor. Good documentation in the patient record is an absolute necessity."

 

http://www.rdhmag.com/articles/print/volume-24/issue-12/columns/staff-rx/patient-refuses-x-ray.html

[Liz CA]

I have seen dentists without being x-rayed - new ones to me.

 

I suppose it might be a state by state rule? Or, more likely, a dental insurance rule? If you're willing to pay out of pocket, you might go to a non-insurance dentist. A cleaning often isn't that expensive in and of itself. Around me, there are more and more places catering to lower income people, I've noticed. Places that seem clean and friendly, but are clearly focused on lower cost maintenance care. I'd be really surprised if any of them are forcing patients to do an initial x-ray.

 

I do not have dental insurance. I usually use my FLEX card for this type of service. California seems to pride itself in coming up with rules like this that don't make sense for everyone and exclude personal choice.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think it's BS.  It might be their individual policy, but I don't see why it would be a requirement.

 

 

[Liz CA]

this article explains that dentists are possible liable for malpractice if they fail to diagnose something which they could only diagnose through an xray. 

 

"It should be understood that even if you have a patient sign a form stating he or she willingly refuses X-rays, no patient can give his or her consent for the dentist to be negligent. If a radiograph is not taken when it is needed for proper diagnosis, and a serious dental problem later arises, the doctor could become entangled in a legal mess.

Patients have the choice of whether or not to proceed with recommended treatment. Patients can refuse any diagnostic test or treatment, including resuscitation, cancer treatment, or dental X-rays. However, doctors cannot provide care for patients based on an incomplete diagnosis without becoming subject to liability for failure to diagnose or treat existing conditions. This is a serious matter for the doctor. Good documentation in the patient record is an absolute necessity."

 

http://www.rdhmag.com/articles/print/volume-24/issue-12/columns/staff-rx/patient-refuses-x-ray.html

 

I totally understand the bolded part. However, nobody has looked at my teeth (my former dentist provided services to me without x-ray but we moved) before they tell me I need an x-ray. If someone took my history and saw something concerning I could understand the push for an x-ray. It seems like I cannot even get in the door without agreeing to be x-rayed.

[hornblower]

I totally understand the bolded part. However, nobody has looked at my teeth (my former dentist provided services to me without x-ray but we moved) before they tell me I need an x-ray. If someone took my history and saw something concerning I could understand the push for an x-ray. It seems like I cannot even get in the door without agreeing to be x-rayed.

 

 

I think it's because they're following the ADA guidelines. http://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Member%20Center/FIles/Dental_Radiographic_Examinations_2012.ashx

[SparklyUnicorn]

Eh tell them you are pregnant.  LOL

 

Hey, whatever works.

 

 

[Cinder]

I guess it depends on the dentist and maybe your state? Our dentist here (in GA) has given dd cleanings and exams without x-rays for years. This past exam was the first she could handle getting bite wing x-rays; she hasn't worked up to getting the panoramic. I was pregnant when we first went there and got a cleaning and exam without x-rays.

[Rebel Yell]

Maybe you can get your doctors to write a statement that you are medically advised against further X-rays and see if your potential dentist will sign a form stating that s/he is responsible for any further damage the X-rays cause you? 😡

[Liz CA]

Eh tell them you are pregnant.  LOL

 

Hey, whatever works.

 

They would be truly amazed given my age and the fact that I had a hysterectomy - but perhaps they would never have to know about the latter part if I am careful in filling out the intake doc. :lol:

[Sun]

I wouldn't bother calling and asking. I'd just make the appointment, get my teeth cleaned, and decline the x-rays. What are they going to do once you're there?

 

[PeterPan]

Was this a very alternative kind of doc?  I'm sensitive to radiation, so I'm cautious about x-rays and sometimes put them off.  The dentist knows I'm a little quirky, so he'll roll with it.  Thing is, things have CHANGED.  The amount of radiation they're using has decreased by like 90 or 98% or something since going to digital.  If you're using a cell phone and holding it to you're head, you're getting tons of radiation compared to the miniscule amounts in digital dental x-rays.

 

The other thing is, if you're very alternative, there are some theories about how to pull radiation out of your body (apple seeds), repair genetic damage (lots of fruits and veges), etc.  In general though, I'd just make sure he's using DIGITAL x-rays and do 'em.  You're doing more harm to your body with your cell phone and home wifi than with the dental x-rays.

Edited June 2, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[LucyStoner]

It's the dentists' policy but they are allowed to have such policies.  Nearly all dentists here want at least one set of xrays every 2 years.  

 

Digital x-rays are a fairly minor exposure to radiation so I would check back with the doctor who told you to avoid them and ask about digital dental x-rays.  

 

Here the only dentists without x-ray policies advertise themselves as "holistic" or "natural" dentists.  Look for ads like that if trying to find a dentist who will take you without x-rays.  

 

 

[JFSinIL]

I'd allow one base set of x-rays,but insist they cover me head to toe with lead aprons, not just my innards. And show them a doctor note recommending you avoid x-rays. But I do believe dental x-rays are far less of a "zap" than scans taken of major bones, etc. If your x-rays show no problems, great. If something is starting - better catch it now and get it fixed rather than get to enjoy a Bigger Deal of a crown or root canal later.

[Scarlett]

My ds is 16 and has only been X-rayed a couple of times....he has been to the dentist twice a year since he was 3....so 26 times?  And I rarely let them X-Ray him.  They never gave me a problem.  

[heartlikealion]

I made a thread about this topic a while back. I think a lot of dentists require new x-rays done at their practice or within say, 6 months to a year of becoming their patient depending on when you last had x-rays and if you can pass them on from the old practice.

 

My dentist basically told me that they get x-rays less often if the insurance doesn't cover it as much. Some ins. companies apparently cover it less often than others. I THINK it was once a year they like to get them? More often for some patients. 

 

I would pretty much barter with them saying you are interested in becoming a patient, but for medical reasons cannot take on much if any radiation. Find out if they use digital, maybe that would be passable to your doctors. They are probably not talking about the same level of radiation in their x-rays. The machines used to look for broken bones I believe are more hard core about the radiation. I'm assuming that is the main reason for their warning. My dad was exposed to a lot of radiation in his life so he avoids getting a lot of x-rays, but he still does get some digital ones when necessary. He's very picky about what dentists he goes to and the technology they use (holistic, etc.). But nowadays many offices have switched to more friendly equipment.

[heartlikealion]

Oh yeah and perhaps ask for a thyroid guard for extra protection.

[Carolinagirl1]

this article explains that dentists are possible liable for malpractice if they fail to diagnose something which they could only diagnose through an xray. 

 

"It should be understood that even if you have a patient sign a form stating he or she willingly refuses X-rays, no patient can give his or her consent for the dentist to be negligent. If a radiograph is not taken when it is needed for proper diagnosis, and a serious dental problem later arises, the doctor could become entangled in a legal mess.

Patients have the choice of whether or not to proceed with recommended treatment. Patients can refuse any diagnostic test or treatment, including resuscitation, cancer treatment, or dental X-rays. However, doctors cannot provide care for patients based on an incomplete diagnosis without becoming subject to liability for failure to diagnose or treat existing conditions. This is a serious matter for the doctor. Good documentation in the patient record is an absolute necessity."

 

http://www.rdhmag.com/articles/print/volume-24/issue-12/columns/staff-rx/patient-refuses-x-ray.html

 

This. Dentists are required to do a complete exam on each patient. If dentists are going to do a complete exam, they cannot be complete and thorough unless they can see the interproximal spaces (between the teeth), which are only visible on x-ray. Suppose you had a large area of decay between 2 teeth that could only be seen on x-ray, and you ended up with an abcess and a full blown infection in your jaw a month after you went in for a full exam, cleaning, and treatment plan. You (or someone) might come back and try to press charges against the dentist for negligence in diagnostics. (It has happened.) Doing x-rays as part of a complete dental exam is standard of care, and those dentists who do not do it are being negligent. I do fully understand the fear of radiation, but the radiation from x-rays are extremely minimal, especially if the dentist is using digital x-rays. I would also insist that they use not only an apron on the front of your body, but also a thyroid collar. Please do not go in and insist that the dentist put his license on the line by refusing a necessary part of the exam.

[Carolinagirl1]

I wouldn't bother calling and asking. I'd just make the appointment, get my teeth cleaned, and decline the x-rays. What are they going to do once you're there?

 

A dentist who is following proper standard of care guidelines will dismiss you.

[Reefgazer]

I would call a local dental school we are they do that stuff for practice and they need warm bodies to practice on

[Liz CA]

I wouldn't bother calling and asking. I'd just make the appointment, get my teeth cleaned, and decline the x-rays. What are they going to do once you're there?

 

When I call to inquire if they are taking new patients, those that do immediately run through the "required" procedures and x-rays are always a part of it. I feel they are telling me right there and then what to expect even with the appropriate charges.

 

A dentist who is following proper standard of care guidelines will dismiss you.

 

I have the impression that this is what would happen if I showed up pretending I have no clue about their x-ray policy. And it's been mentioned in the thread that they snatch you right away for x-rays before you see the dentist and the hygienist is often a separate appointment.

I will have to research digital x-rays. Maybe I can compromise on a base set instead of the more extensive one.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Liz CA

[Tsuga]

Reefgazer's idea might work.

 

Alternatively, could you bring a note from the doctor with the number of x-rays you've been exposed to?

 

Go to an unlicensed homeopathic dentist? Dunno, just brainstorming here.

[PeterPan]

It's the dentists' policy but they are allowed to have such policies.  Nearly all dentists here want at least one set of xrays every 2 years.  

 

Digital x-rays are a fairly minor exposure to radiation so I would check back with the doctor who told you to avoid them and ask about digital dental x-rays.  

 

Here the only dentists without x-ray policies advertise themselves as "holistic" or "natural" dentists.  Look for ads like that if trying to find a dentist who will take you without x-rays.  

 

Now see I've gone to a holistic/alternative dentist so long, I didn't even realize his policies were not the norm.  They *remind* me and ask, but they've never threatened to drop me.  And I usually just go oh I can't handle the headache today let's do them next time, and they're cool with that.  There's one I told them hang it up, don't even ask again.  It was of my front beaver teeth (no clue the names at the moment, lol) and I SWEAR they point that thing straight at your brain!  That gave me the WORST headache!!!  That was dumb and I told them never again, I choose to lose them first.  But the kind that are pointed at the side, really, now with digital I don't even get headaches from them.  

 

There's an org that I found my dentist through years ago.  I'd have to look it up and I'm lazy.  I was getting my metal amalgams out and it was an org for that, for dentists that do that.  The practice changed hands but stayed alternative.  So that really might be a way to go.

[PeterPan]

When I call to inquire if they are taking new patients, those that do immediately run through the "required" procedures and x-rays are always a part of it. I feel they are telling me right there and then what to expect even with the appropriate charges.

 

 

I have the impression that this is what would happen if I showed up pretending I have no clue about their x-ray policy. And it's been mentioned in the thread that they snatch you right away for x-rays before you see the dentist and the hygienist is often a separate appointment.

I will have to research digital x-rays. Maybe I can compromise on a base set instead of the more extensive one.

 

Ok, at our practice there are different kinds of x-rays.  The more common ones are "cavity detecting" and those are your molars.  They point to the side.  I survive them.  They have some swankier ones (pano, beaver) that are less often.  I can't think of the last time they asked me for panos, and I think the beaver are supposed to be like every 3-5 years or something.  I think it's about the roots?  

 

Anyways, I told her never to ask for the beavers again, and the hygienist doesn't give me a hard time about that.  It's an alternative dental place, on the door, yes.  

 

I got the cavity detecting, which is basically molars, so that's 4 (upper, lower, each side).  I think if you said upfront hey could we do half one visit, half the other, and alternate, they might roll with that.  Our guy has never given me a hard time over things.  I choose to do the cavity detecting ones because they want them.  If they were the old film kind, I'd be putting them off.  It's just so low now, I do it.  In the scheme of things, it's not much.  Now when I had to have a root canal because a tooth died after my ds hit me, THAT was a lot of x-rays.  That was like UNREAL the amount of x-rays they do for that.  And you get through it.  Our bodies were made to detox this stuff.  Each your fruits and veges.  Drink some pomegranate juice.  That's what I do.  

 

I'm just saying you might be able to get them to say yes to staggering, not a lot at once, etc.  You mentioned "base set" and it might not have to be like that with tons all at once.

Edited June 2, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

Are We Getting Too Much Radiation From Dental X-Rays?

 

Wow, this is interesting!  I didn't realize the x-ray was such a tiny, focused beam.  So Bitewings are what our hygienist calls cavity-detecting.  Full mouth x-rays are the panoramics.  So turn down the pano and have the Bitewings, kwim?  Or stagger them.

[PeterPan]

How To Find Safe Dentists - IAOMT  Article on different terms in the safe/alternative dentistry world.

 

Search for IAOMT Member Dentists / Physicians - IAOMT  Org where I found my dentist.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

They would be truly amazed given my age and the fact that I had a hysterectomy - but perhaps they would never have to know about the latter part if I am careful in filling out the intake doc. :lol:

 

Hey crazier things have happened re the age.  They aren't going to check for a hysterectomy.  And if they do, get out of there!!

[trulycrabby]

You might look for a dentist with new, digital equipment, agree to have an initial xray, then decline subsequent xrays.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Although a note on some of the digital stuff.  I call that the gold digging machine.  Basically they have this I dunno, wand thing that they run over your teeth and it somehow detects possible cavities.  Problem is some dentists use this as a way to claim you need every tooth in your mouth filled because the machine picked up some hint of something or other.  This happened to my husband.  Over 10 years ago he went to a dentist who used something like that and he claimed he needed to have all of his teeth filled.  I told him to get a second opinion.  So he did and that guy, who he still goes to, didn't find any cavities.  In that 10 years of going to him he has had to have one filling.  So 10 years...one filling.  Not all of his teeth!! 

Edited June 2, 2016 by SparklyUnicorn

[PeterPan]

Hey Sparkly, our dentist does that, but he never decides on a cavity exclusively with it.  I forget what it's called.  It's some kind of *light* I think.  It measures tooth density, so they start on a tooth with no known decay, touch, get a number, and then they check spots they're watching.  But it's usually just a way to confirm what the hygienist is thinking.  And I don't think it's a safety issue.  I don't think it's even ultrasound.  I *think* it's a light probe of some kind.