I'm so judgmental: gender equality and other issues

[daijobu]

I feel bad about this, but this bothers me.  Dd and I were watching some college virtual tour videos and having fun.  We stumbled on this USC FAQ, and I can't shake my sense of disappointment, especially in my gender.  Are we surprised that women don't have income equality when they/we put out videos like this?  

 

I can't help feeling that I wouldn't want my dds attending a school like USC if it's full of students like her.  I know that these students abound at all schools, even the tippy top name schools, and of course the ones who are serious about academics aren't making videos like this.  But I still need some reassurance.  I should just put her out of my head, and repeat the different strokes mantra to myself.  Right?  

[ktgrok]

I got bored around the time she started talking about bikes, and such. But the part about dorms seemed typical for a young girl. What in particular bothered you?

[Guest]

I am not going to watch a twenty minute video about college, what did she say that is bad.

 

And what in the ever loving world does it have to do with gender equality?

 

Are you suggesting that women need to behave in such a way that someone...who, by the way? Men? The 1%? The Government, what?....will GIVE us gender equality? Cause that wouldn't be equality, dontchaknow.

[Corraleno]

:confused1:  Is that the video you meant to link? Other than a silly 10 second intro of girls shopping, the rest is just a typical college girl answering questions about USC — what the dorms are like, how to talk to profs during office hours, always wear flip flops in the shower, etc. What was it that bothered you? Too much make-up? Stuffed animals on the bed?

[regentrude]

Can you elaborate what bothers you about the video? I'm not watching 20 minutes of a girl talking about a school in which I have no interest.

 

I listened to snippets and did not find anything disturbing or unacceptable. I hear her talk about her profs, encourage people to go to office hours, clubs, how on campus jobs are worked around class schedule...

[Katy]

LOL... If you hate sorority type girls, you might want to not chose Southern California, and steer DD towards more intellectual schools.  Reed.  Chicago.  The little ivies.

 

But I have another question for you.  Why is the bubbly, happy girl so off putting to you?  Why can't she be free to be whoever she wants, even if it is shallow?

 

I once heard Reese Witherspoon do an interview about hating the starlets that acted stupid but weren't, while at the same time speaking positively about the writing in Legally Blonde.  Women can be feminine and like shallow things and still be empowered.  The days of dressing and acting like men to have a serious career are over.

 

In the same vein, I saw an interview the other day by that woman on Shark Tank about her new book, Shark Tales: How I Turned $1,000 into a Billion Dollar Business, where apparently she controversially encourages women to play up their sex appeal in business because it gives more power, and basically says that men who are more sexy are inherently deferred to, and it is sexist to insist that women tone down that part of themselves in order to succeed, primarily because it results in the opposite.

 

Along the same lines, there was recently a NY Times article about how it is now feminists who are joining sororities.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Eh, to each their own.  Not my kinda people, but some people dig that stuff I guess.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

 

But I have another question for you.  Why is the bubbly, happy girl so off putting to you?  Why can't she be free to be whoever she wants, even if it is shallow?

 

I admit I do not care for extremes in personalities when it comes to gender.  This goes for masculine or feminine.  Maybe that's judgemental and mean of me, but yep that is how I feel.  This always comes off as extremely fake to me.  So if someone seems fake, it's hard to take them seriously.  It feels very uncanny valley to me (for lack of a better way of putting it).  I know uncanny valley refers to animations, but I'm using it to refer to personalities that come off as almost human, but not quite human so it wigs me out. 

 

Now this video might have been in fun.  No clue.  (I didn't watch it for very long.)

[Farrar]

I didn't watch it... but I'm definitely of the sentiment that women shouldn't have to prove that we're worthy of equal treatment. We just are. And it doesn't matter if we're girly girls or tomboys or into cooking or physics or having babies or making computer programs. We don't have to prove it any more than men do.

[ktgrok]

I really don't get what this has to do with gender. Trust me, boys around that age and in that situation are not any more adult acting or serious or whatever. 

[Laurie]

 .  I know that these students abound at all schools, even the tippy top name schools, and of course the ones who are serious about academics aren't making videos like this.  But I still need some reassurance.    

 

Maybe I missed something, but how on earth do you come to the conclusion that she isn't serious about academics?  

[daijobu]

Well, I'm a little put off by her admitting to doing poorly in her science class, while excelling in her stage make up class.  She was excited to move to a street where there are parties from Thursday to Sunday.  If you watch the official USC virtual tour videos, the students interviewed seem so normal, who are taking advantage of different USC programs, research, overseas studies.  We don't see men producing youtube videos like this.  This is what bothers me.  I feel like it reflects badly on women as a whole.  Maybe I just don't know or see people like this in my own life, that it was rather shocking that someone like her could be admitted to a high ranking university.  

[Laurie]

 .  I feel like it reflects badly on women as a whole.  Maybe I just don't know or see people like this in my own life, that it was rather shocking that someone like her could be admitted to a high ranking university.  

 

"Someone like her"?  

 

And yet you rejected the obtuse and right angles.   What does that say about you?  :laugh:

[foxbridgeacademy]

She's a twit but harmless.  I had friends like her in College, not close friends but ones that were fun to hang out with occasionally. I couldn't watch her for very long but I'm not a teenage girl considering going to USC, if I were I'd probably still think she was a bit of a twit but I'd watch the whole thing. I think she's overdoing the "air-head" impersonation on purpose a bit, but again, pretty harmless.  

 

 

**** by twit I mean silly or air-head, lacking in depth.  Many 18-20 year old's, male and female are twits.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Well, I'm a little put off by her admitting to doing poorly in her science class, while excelling in her stage make up class.  She was excited to move to a street where there are parties from Thursday to Sunday.  If you watch the official USC virtual tour videos, the students interviewed seem so normal, who are taking advantage of different USC programs, research, overseas studies.  We don't see men producing youtube videos like this.  This is what bothers me.  I feel like it reflects badly on women as a whole.  Maybe I just don't know or see people like this in my own life, that it was rather shocking that someone like her could be admitted to a high ranking university.  

Yes we do, they're just more along the lines of "Jackass" and stupid Human (I could die doing this) tricks.

 

ETA- DD says to check out Tyler Oakley  Life is Really, really Hard.... Language can be an issue

Edited May 11, 2016 by foxbridgeacademy

[ktgrok]

I'd urge you to examine your feelings.

 

1) There are a whole lot of young men posting idiotic videos on YouTube.

 

2) Why on earth would one person's actions reflect on half of the entire human species?

 

Seriously, the videos the boys are producing are probably WAY less serious. Instead of sitting well groomed in a clean room talking about college they are half drunk, shirtless, making videos of themselves riding in shopping carts and other random things. This isn't anything about being female. It's just someone being young. 

 

edited to add: Yup, I was thinking of Jackass videos and such as well.

Edited May 11, 2016 by ktgrok

[Guest]

Well, I'm a little put off by her admitting to doing poorly in her science class, while excelling in her stage make up class. She was excited to move to a street where there are parties from Thursday to Sunday. If you watch the official USC virtual tour videos, the students interviewed seem so normal, who are taking advantage of different USC programs, research, overseas studies. We don't see men producing youtube videos like this. This is what bothers me. I feel like it reflects badly on women as a whole. Maybe I just don't know or see people like this in my own life, that it was rather shocking that someone like her could be admitted to a high ranking university.

Some people could say this comment and the attitude it springs from reflects badly on women as a whole.

 

But no one WILL say that because it doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

She is just some woman being completely benign on the internet. Quit, as the saying goes, riding her jock.

Edited May 11, 2016 by OKBud

[ktgrok]

Also, she was answering the questions she's received, so the blame would be on all those women (and men?) as well for asking? There were already videos about academics, so she was filling a need in answering other questions. 

[Katy]

Well, I'm a little put off by her admitting to doing poorly in her science class, while excelling in her stage make up class.  She was excited to move to a street where there are parties from Thursday to Sunday.  If you watch the official USC virtual tour videos, the students interviewed seem so normal, who are taking advantage of different USC programs, research, overseas studies.  We don't see men producing youtube videos like this.  This is what bothers me.  I feel like it reflects badly on women as a whole.  Maybe I just don't know or see people like this in my own life, that it was rather shocking that someone like her could be admitted to a high ranking university.  

 

Ok, I'm going to defend her.  I think you're making a lot of really unfair assumptions.

 

Of course the official videos are stellar students who appear ideal to parents. It's parents who will be convinced to spend the equivalent of slightly more than the average American's annual salary on one year at a private university like USC.  Realistically, the official videos are probably featuring actors, not real students.  This is USC, not Dartmouth.

 

She said she wasn't a science person and found it challenging.  University level biology classes are worlds apart from high school levels. Most students don't bother with biology at all.  They take something interesting, like the biology of sex to fulfill their science requirement. Perhaps she thought she'd be pre-med but found the labs and volume of memorization more difficult than she anticipated, and changed to business. It's not unheard of for a college freshmen to find something easy in high school and weed-out in college.  Especially because she took AP courses in high school.  She didn't specify which biology class it was.  Perhaps it was microbio or biochem or something that even pre-med students find difficult.

 

She didn't say she was excited to go to those parties.  She said she lived in a sorority that was living in the area of those parties, but personally it wasn't her scene.  She basically described having a panic attack at those parties because she had a fear of the crowds and worried about the fire code and getting trapped inside if something went wrong.  She said if you liked that kind of thing, okay, some of her friends did, but it wasn't her thing and that was okay with everyone.

 

This woman is a beauty guru on YouTube.  There are plenty of young women who make hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars a year being beauty gurus on YouTube.  That doesn't set women back, it's filling a need in the market for young girls who want to look pretty but who are tired of fake magazines who push advertisers, and in the YouTube community they find friends who will answer their questions and teach them about life, all for free.  Previously, big corporations run by old men were making money from those markets, and now it is young women themselves who are getting rich.  That is a step in the right direction for women if I've ever seen one.

 

Some women and girls are that feminine.  They find it delightful.  It's not fake.  It's who they are.  They're not judging you for being who you are.

 

Also, we're talking about a school in LA (arguably the shallowest place on earth), in a school most known for its film program and film connections (where appearance matters), and she is a beauty guru. Honestly if I could quote that scene from The Devil Wears Prada where Meryl Streep lectures the "fat" girl on her superiority about being above it all, I would.  But instead I think I'll post the video, and tell you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT SEND YOUR DAUGHTER TO LA IF SHE SHARES YOUR ATTITUDE about the "appropriate" role for women.  It will just be cruel to put her in that environment where she will inevitably be knocked off that high horse.

 

[Corraleno]

Well, I'm a little put off by her admitting to doing poorly in her science class, while excelling in her stage make up class.  She was excited to move to a street where there are parties from Thursday to Sunday.  If you watch the official USC virtual tour videos, the students interviewed seem so normal, who are taking advantage of different USC programs, research, overseas studies.  We don't see men producing youtube videos like this.  This is what bothers me.  I feel like it reflects badly on women as a whole.  Maybe I just don't know or see people like this in my own life, that it was rather shocking that someone like her could be admitted to a high ranking university.  

 

I'm really curious as to where you live, and where you went to college, that you're shocked by the idea there are girls in "good colleges" who like makeup better than lab sciences! I'm sure there are plenty of guys, even at Ivies, who prefer sports to bio labs. I TA'd at a higher ranked university than USC, and I had plenty of students who were more interested in makeup, sports, and partying than they were in anthropology. That's true at every college, even "highly ranked" ones.

 

Also, you really can't tell anything about a woman's intelligence by how much makeup she wears or how girly she is. I went to college with a girl from Georgia who looked like an extra from Legally Blonde; she was super giggly and flirty and never left her dorm room without full makeup and hair. She partied a lot, too. It didn't hurt her GPA or test scores — she went to med school.

 

[J-rap]

Hmm, I watched the first eight minutes and didn't really see anything bothersome besides the dumb 5 second intro (which I don't think was the main girl in the video).  She seemed articulate and did pretty well speaking in front of a video for all that time.  She was just talking about dorms and meal plans when I listened to her, trying to address various questions a future student might have about campus life.   I'm surprised that she bothered you so much.   

Edited May 11, 2016 by J-rap

[Joker]

Well, I'm a little put off by her admitting to doing poorly in her science class, while excelling in her stage make up class.  She was excited to move to a street where there are parties from Thursday to Sunday.  If you watch the official USC virtual tour videos, the students interviewed seem so normal, who are taking advantage of different USC programs, research, overseas studies.  We don't see men producing youtube videos like this.  This is what bothers me.  I feel like it reflects badly on women as a whole.  Maybe I just don't know or see people like this in my own life, that it was rather shocking that someone like her could be admitted to a high ranking university.  

 

Yikes! I do think you have some issues if you think everyone, or at least all females, need to excel in science and not art. That honestly doesn't make sense to me. Do you look down upon artists? If so, why? Maybe you don't consider stage make up an art? I couldn't do it. Could you? 

 

My youngest dd is an artist at heart. She's in honors math and science classes as well but art is where her heart is at. As she grows in her art I have no doubt it will become more important and I'm okay with that. I don't think it says anything about her as a woman. I don't think she should be looked down upon at all because of it. 

 

I don't really know why anyone thinks all students should love and excel in science classes. Why? Some in that science class wish they could be artistic. Some in the art class wish they could be scientific. It takes all kinds to make the world go round. 

[Carrie12345]

TL;DW, but I did notice that you have 13 and 14yo dds.  

My dds turn 13 and 14 in the next few weeks.  Mine do some things really, really well.  They're not so good at other things.  They defy certain stereotypes and embrace others.  They are smart and strong, they're goofy and fun.  They don't hide who they are in attempt to make females "look better".  They are real people who happen to be female.  My hope for them is that they continue to be genuine in high school, college, and forever.

As a feminist raising feminists, I don't want any of my kids to grow up thinking they have to fulfill "proper" expectations for their gender.  That's what we're supposed to be fighting against.

[marbel]

Well, I'm a little put off by her admitting to doing poorly in her science class, while excelling in her stage make up class.  She was excited to move to a street where there are parties from Thursday to Sunday.  If you watch the official USC virtual tour videos, the students interviewed seem so normal, who are taking advantage of different USC programs, research, overseas studies.  We don't see men producing youtube videos like this.  This is what bothers me.  I feel like it reflects badly on women as a whole.  Maybe I just don't know or see people like this in my own life, that it was rather shocking that someone like her could be admitted to a high ranking university.  

 

I haven't read all the responses.

 

Honestly, this comment makes me a little angry.  I have a daughter who is very bright and talented in art.  She doesn't like science and thus doesn't do well in it.  It doesn't mean she is not serious.

 

I guess when I was in high school people made fun of the girls who wanted to study "fashion merchandising."  It was for airheads, girls who weren't really all that bright. Now, it seems anyone who is not STEM-oriented is pegged as the airhead.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well, I'm a little put off by her admitting to doing poorly in her science class, while excelling in her stage make up class.  She was excited to move to a street where there are parties from Thursday to Sunday.  If you watch the official USC virtual tour videos, the students interviewed seem so normal, who are taking advantage of different USC programs, research, overseas studies.  We don't see men producing youtube videos like this.  This is what bothers me.  I feel like it reflects badly on women as a whole.  Maybe I just don't know or see people like this in my own life, that it was rather shocking that someone like her could be admitted to a high ranking university.  

 

Then again turn that statement around.  Would you feel the same if she said she is doing lousy in her stage makeup class, but great in science?

[Bluegoat]

I know you don't intend it that way, but it sounds a bit like you are saying that it's ok to be a woman as long as you aren't interested in traditionally female interests, or feminine personalities.

 

And fun social bubbly people are not necessarily stupid or lacking in seriousness.  They can ad a lot to a group, in my experience.

 

 

[Danestress]

I feel like it reflects badly on women as a whole. Maybe I just don't know or see people like this in my own life, that it was rather shocking that someone like her could be admitted to a high ranking university.

 

If what one woman does reflects on women 'as a whole,' we can't win. Women are similar to men in how they are actually individual people who have one major thing in common, but still differ widely.

[SparklyUnicorn]

To be fair, the OP admitted upfront she was being judgemental.  We are all judgemental, and I bet we all have different preferences in terms of personality types (or whatever anyone wants to call that). 

[foxbridgeacademy]

Talking about silly girls making $$ check out Zoella