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SparklyUnicorn

If your kid takes DE courses do you have minimal grade expectations of him/her?

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Title says it all. 

 

I know maybe that's a bit odd to have a specific expectation.  I just don't know what is reasonable.  Some stuff is very obviously not reasonable, but just how much do you get on your kid regarding this?

 

 

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Yes. An A is preferable, a B is acceptable, a C is not.

Firstly, because it becomes part of the student's permanent college transcript; secondly, because I know that most college courses are set up in such a way that students who diligently do all the work and avail themselves of help opportunities should receive at least a B. A grade of C would signal that the student is not prepared for the course, either because of lack of academic preparation, or - which is most often the case - because of a lack of work ethic and time on task. The first I should be aware of as the homeschooling parent; the second I should strive to correct.

I would not set my student up for failure by letting him enroll in a college course for which a C is difficult to achieve.

 

ETA to clarify: the above is specifically about a high school student taking DE courses at a normal college - NOT for a college student, who may be at a tough school or may encounter a tough class where all effort may barely suffice to scrape a C. It would not be my place as a parent to prevent the student from taking that class, and if the student had shown great work ethic and made an effort, I would have absolutely no misgivings about a C.

I am adding this because some of DD's classes have been absolutely insane, with brutal, low average exams, and until the end of the course it was completely unclear how grades would fall. Had her heroic efforts only been rewarded a grade of C (instead of the A- she ended up actually getting), I would have been happy for her to have made it through the course in one piece.

But a DE student would have no business being in such a class.

Edited by regentrude
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The first semester that DS enrolled in a CC, I wasn't sure what to expect. Didn't want to be overconfident or give him the wrong message that there was only one way to come out of that experience. But a few semesters in now we more or less know and expect he is going to hit a certain grade UNLESS something drastic happens, e.g. one midterm I think he just froze and didn't know how/ what to write but he pulled through the rest of the semester.

 

His university DE class is another thing altogether. One midterm was paralyzingly hard he thought and then realized later he was totally overthinking things. His second midterm was the other extreme of too frustratingly easy. But not sure if midterm 2 will pull midterm 1's grade up. He doesn't know the grade yet. And then there will be finals and we of course don't know what will happen there. But homework and quiz grades have been consistent.

 

Sorry, probably more than you needed to know. Sometimes it is not easy to know what to expect. Sometimes it is. That very first semester, I had no clue although towards the end of the semester it was becoming obvious based on his reports back to me.

Edited by quark
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I expected a B or C from one of my kids. I expect As or high Bs out of the others.  It is more about what I know they are willing to do.  My oldest is kind of a dreamer and has focus issues sometimes.  She has made a few Cs in her college classes, but from lack of will rather than lack of ability.  My younger two are very driven, and strive for A+ in every class they take, and usually get it.

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The first semester that DS enrolled in a CC, I wasn't sure what to expect. Didn't want to be overconfident or give him the wrong message that there was only one way to come out of that experience. But a few semesters in now we more or less know and expect he is going to hit a certain grade UNLESS something drastic happens, e.g. one midterm I think he just froze and didn't know how/ what to write but he pulled through the rest of the semester.

 

His university DE class is another thing altogether. One midterm was paralyzingly hard he thought and then realized later he was totally overthinking things. His second midterm was the other extreme of too frustratingly easy. But not sure if midterm 2 will pull midterm 1's grade up. He doesn't know the grade yet. And then there will be finals and we of course don't know what will happen there. But homework and quiz grades have been consistent.

 

Sorry, probably more than you needed to know. Sometimes it is not easy to know what to expect. Sometimes it is. That very first semester, I had no clue although towards the end of the semester it was becoming obvious based on his reports back to me.

 

Oh yeah I know.  I am a spazz.  I worry did I do enough at home, was it a bad idea for him to do this now, he has no experience taking classes of any kind and I dropped him into something like that so is it too much, etc.  

 

My parents didn't seem to care what I was doing in school ever . So I'm this complete opposite person in that department.  I don't know what the best way is in this situation. 

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I expected a B or C from one of my kids. I expect As or high Bs out of the others.  It is more about what I know they are willing to do.  My oldest is kind of a dreamer and has focus issues sometimes.  She has made a few Cs in her college classes, but from lack of will rather than lack of ability.  My younger two are very driven, and strive for A+ in every class they take, and usually get it.

 

Yeah see I am very driven.  I always have been.  He isn't to the same extent.

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Yeah see I am very driven.  I always have been.  He isn't to the same extent.

 

My DS is not academically driven either (his area where he is driven and focused is his sport). However, for the first college class he is taking this semester, he takes the work VERY seriously, carefully does all assigned reading, goes over it a second time, works hard on the assignments, studies for tests, and definitely aims for an A.

I see a different student there than the one I have at home.

I

 

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Yeah see I am very driven.  I always have been.  He isn't to the same extent.

 

Well, I learned (the hard way) that just because I'm driven, it doesn't trickle down..lol.  This is the child that I had to drag kicking and screaming through high school, and getting her to take an interest in college at all was like pushing a limp noodle uphill.  So...with her I am thrilled with her Bs and Cs.  She's picking up an interest now (at the end of her freshman year) and is actually enjoying her classes.  This has helped.  She's had to find her groove, because mine wasn't working for her.

 

My younger two?  They drive me insane with their perfectionism sometimes.  I've had to warn one of them that when the inevitable happens and she gets a B in a college class (she's headed into a science field) that she must try very hard not to have a breakdown.  She just laughed nervously and said.."Yeah...there are no Bs".  

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It's interesting because I'm so relaxed with my second kid.  I always think, "Eh, he'll figure it out."  But my first kid?  I worry about every little thing. 

 

That's probably normal, but I feel bad about it sometimes.

 

 

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Well, I don't know if anyone would call me driven. On the surface I'm not. But give me things I love to do, are meaningful, or sometimes even if not, an instructor I really admire and respect and who takes time to show some care towards me, and I become very different and focused and determined to succeed. I would never have pegged DS as driven a few years ago when he started. But I see that he is actually quite like me in the way I described. He really wants to do well for the profs he likes. And even for the ones he complains about, there are other motivations, e.g. to consistently be top or top 3 in the class, to maintain strong gpa, to do better than he did in a previous midterm (even if it means beating that score by just 2 or 3 points) etc.

 

DE-ing has definitely brought out the drive in him. He still worked somewhat hard before that but somehow it's just different (and easier on me I admit) now that he is DEing. It's as if he has to prove something to himself vs just proving it to me.

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I expected As and Bs (mostly Bs) from my oldest. She did end up with one C, but she mostly had As and Bs. She did the minimum necessary to get by with a B in most classes. 

 

I expected that my middle dd would get all As, but I would have been fine with Bs also. I was actually quite worried that she would freak out over a B, but it never came up. She is graduating from college in May and still has never made anything lower than an A-.

 

My youngest is dyslexic and dysgraphic and visual processing issues and other issues. I really expected her to be a solid B student. She has surprised me by being militant about her grades. Anything lower than an A is absolutely not acceptable to her. In fact, she expects herself to get high As (and mostly does). She is likely to end this semester with her first B and she is not happy about it at all. She works extremely hard.

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I wouldn't enroll my high school student in a college course unless I thought he/she could get an A or B. That said, if my child tried hard and earned something less, then I would have to accept that. On the other hand, if my child didn't try, I would be pretty unhappy about that. There are a lot of variables here, but I have asked my dd to aim for As. If she ends up with Bs, that's okay.  If she is only earning Cs or worse, then I would have to question my own decision to enroll her.

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I expect an A but would be fine with a B. Dd works hard enough to get the A. She's motivated because it's one of her favorite subjects.

 

We also pay a bazillion dollars for her university classes. There is no reduced DE for in-person courses. She knows we would not continue to pay should she get lower than a B.

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No. The local CC requires a 2.0 GPA to stay in the program and the local university requires a 3.0. They will either keep an acceptable GPA and continue or they won't. I expect them to work hard. But, the onus is on them at that point. I do tend to remind my kids that college classes will follow them throughout the rest of their education, so make each grade count. :)

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I added a clarification to my first post why my stance for an actual college student would be different.

 

Yeah I would not be upset about a lower score if I knew my kid had put in the effort.  But I don't know how to respond when the score is good and there wasn't much effort.  I would be driven to do as well as I could, but it seems my kid doesn't have the same attitude. 

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I think that if my kid got less than an A or B as a DE student, I'd be questioning my decision to do DE. I'd figure they weren't ready. This would be whether it was due to a lack of preparation/ability level, or a lack of motivation.  DE involves cost, hassle, etc. on my part, too, and I wouldn't be willing to provide that for a student who was either unready or unmotivated.  

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I think that if my kid got less than an A or B as a DE student, I'd be questioning my decision to do DE. I'd figure they weren't ready. This would be whether it was due to a lack of preparation/ability level, or a lack of motivation. DE involves cost, hassle, etc. on my part, too, and I wouldn't be willing to provide that for a student who was either unready or unmotivated.

This.

We're just starting DE in the fall, but I told ds I expect him to do his best & do well.

I think he's ready, BUT,

It's his first time, if it proves to be too difficult (or if I get complaints about being overworked/ getting up early, etc), he won't take a CC class the following semester.

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This.

We're just starting DE in the fall, but I told ds I expect him to do his best & do well.

I think he's ready, BUT,

It's his first time, if it proves to be too difficult (or if I get complaints about being overworked/ getting up early, etc), he won't take a CC class the following semester.

 

See I say the same.  Do your best and do well, but what exactly is well? 

 

I think he'll come out of this first course with an A -.  I know that isn't something to scoff at (and he is actually only in 8th grade), but he didn't do his best.  He doesn't study.  He does the homework at least. 

 

I don't know what is reasonable of me though.

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Well, if he's doing the work and getting an A, I don't know that you can ask for anything else of him in that class, right?

 

Sounds like he needs a harder class.  The class isn't requiring his best.

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Well, if he's doing the work and getting an A, I don't know that you can ask for anything else of him in that class, right?

 

Sounds like he needs a harder class.  The class isn't requiring his best.

 

Yeah this kind of bothers me.  I wonder if he can rise to a challenge.  KWIM?   But it's math so how much more challenging could it get?  I can't see having him take a class later on in a series without the prerequisites. 

 

Maybe it's just not that difficult for him. 

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Yeah this kind of bothers me.  I wonder if he can rise to a challenge.  KWIM?   But it's math so how much more challenging could it get?  I can't see having him take a class later on in a series without the prerequisites. 

 

Maybe it's just not that difficult for him. 

 

Right, you're doing the right thing, I think. Have him work his way through the series. Eventually it will get challenging, right? Or it won't, in which case look for challenges in other areas. 

 

I wouldn't be looking for challenge in my kid's very first DE class, though. I'd be happy if the first one was something she could do well on without a huge amount of struggle, in order to build confidence about being ready for college.  Once that was in place, look for more challenging classes in the area of strength, or in other areas.

 

I'd also be keeping a cynical eye on the transcript/gpa - part of the goal of doing DE for us is verifying a level of achievement/ability/college readiness.  If my kid is getting As on her DE classes, college will tend to trust our transcript and the mommy grades and believe that she is ready for college.  That's a good thing in my book.

 

I guess it depends on the main goal of doing DE.  If it's for challenge, then look for harder courses, eventually.  But if it's mostly for verification of your kid's college readiness, I'd be pretty happy with an A that didn't stress them out too much.  Of course, the goal is probably both, right? In which case you'll want a mix of classes.

 

At least, that's what I think, but what do I know? We're looking ahead to our first DE some time in the next year or two. I think we've got 9th grade covered at home but we should probably do some DE starting in 10th. 

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Right, you're doing the right thing, I think. Have him work his way through the series. Eventually it will get challenging, right? Or it won't, in which case look for challenges in other areas. 

 

I wouldn't be looking for challenge in my kid's very first DE class, though. I'd be happy if the first one was something she could do well on without a huge amount of struggle, in order to build confidence about being ready for college.  Once that was in place, look for more challenging classes in the area of strength, or in other areas.

 

I'd also be keeping a cynical eye on the transcript/gpa - part of the goal of doing DE for us is verifying a level of achievement/ability/college readiness.  If my kid is getting As on her DE classes, college will tend to trust our transcript and the mommy grades and believe that she is ready for college.  That's a good thing in my book.

 

I guess it depends on the main goal of doing DE.  If it's for challenge, then look for harder courses, eventually.  But if it's mostly for verification of your kid's college readiness, I'd be pretty happy with an A that didn't stress them out too much.  Of course, the goal is probably both, right? In which case you'll want a mix of classes.

 

At least, that's what I think, but what do I know? We're looking ahead to our first DE some time in the next year or two. I think we've got 9th grade covered at home but we should probably do some DE starting in 10th. 

 

That all sounds reasonable.  I didn't want it to be extremely difficult.  I didn't anticipate that it would be. 

 

I think I just need to let it go really. 

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Shoot for A, okay with B.  It goes on her record.

 

Her first semester she got an A in math and a B in ASL.  ASL was really weird, the tests had things they hadn't covered, etc. Welcome to the real world!  

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Yeah I would not be upset about a lower score if I knew my kid had put in the effort.  But I don't know how to respond when the score is good and there wasn't much effort.  I would be driven to do as well as I could, but it seems my kid doesn't have the same attitude. 

 

 

See I say the same.  Do your best and do well, but what exactly is well? 

 

I think he'll come out of this first course with an A -.  I know that isn't something to scoff at (and he is actually only in 8th grade), but he didn't do his best.  He doesn't study.  He does the homework at least. 

 

I don't know what is reasonable of me though.

 

Several possibilities (He is DE-ing at a CC right?)

 

  1. You have what we call imposter syndrome (and thanks to dmmetler, I now have a new one, imposter syndrome homeschool parent edition). You think that it really should be much harder than it is, that it cannot be true that he is getting an A so easily.
  2. CCs have different goals. It helps a lot to think of it that way. Their goals usually (please note I said usually) are to help the weakest students succeed. or to drive transfer rates higher. Or both.
  3. CC profs do several things to help students succeed (again usually). They might make things idiot/ absent minded professor types proof in a syllabus. They might offer extra credit to give students more chances. They might say go see the tutor for this course in the student learning center of this CC and if the tutor signs off that you understand this mistake, I will add 2-3 points to your score (that 2-3 points can push student up from a D or C to a C or B).
  4. OR it really is too easy for him. So what do you do? Math can get harder. It really can. If it really is a prerequisite he needs just because he is dying to get to a higher level, then I might not worry too much. You know he knows this stuff. You just need it to be official. But if you think it is setting him up to fail when he reaches a 4-year uni, then you have to do something about it. What that is exactly will depend on kid, you and your goals.

Math was too easy for kiddo at the CC. Just very frustrating for him that problems assigned were not hard enough or no one wanted to take things further. So he:

  1. Went ahead in some courses because he knew he could access harder problems via AoPS/ MIT OCW and challenge himself at home too
  2. Approached prof during office hours to extend the discussion (but dependent on prof's time)
  3. Approached prof for harder problems...said instead of 20 easy problems, could he do 12-15 more challenging ones
  4. Eventually DE-ed at the university
  5. I don't know why there's a 5. :laugh: Just trying to make you smile. :laugh:
  6. Ah, I remember now...like others have said, if it his first course, let it go. You needed to try this to figure out what to do next. Sometimes we just have to take that risk whatever it is. How else would we know for sure how something works for our kid? We kept trying for 2-3 semesters hoping it was just a prof issue. But no, it isn't very different from prof to prof so far (only profs who ended up being worth the consistent trying were a music and lit prof).
Edited by quark
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See I say the same. Do your best and do well, but what exactly is well?

 

I think he'll come out of this first course with an A -. I know that isn't something to scoff at (and he is actually only in 8th grade), but he didn't do his best. He doesn't study. He does the homework at least.

 

I don't know what is reasonable of me though.

It is reasonable to request that he put in the minimum sugested study time and improve the grade to an A+. That will help him gain the study skills needed in the future. The expected workload is 2- 3 hrs out of class for each hour in class.if he needs a more immediate carrot,perhaps he could think of it as a worthy goal to get a tutoring job. Edited by Heigh Ho
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Yes, I keep thinking, should it really be that easy for him?  I wonder if  I'm only imagining that he is good at this stuff.  I have no clue why. 

 

 

 

Several possibilities (He is DE-ing at a CC right?)

 

  1. You have what we call imposter syndrome (and thanks to dmmetler, I now have a new one, imposter syndrome homeschool parent edition). You think that it really should be much harder than it is, that it cannot be true that he is getting an A so easily.
  2. CCs have different goals. It helps a lot to think of it that way. Their goals usually (please note I said usually) are to help the weakest students succeed. or to drive transfer rates higher. Or both.
  3. CC profs do several things to help students succeed (again usually). They might make things idiot/ absent minded professor types proof in a syllabus. They might offer extra credit to give students more chances. They might say go see the tutor for this course in the student learning center of this CC and if the tutor signs off that you understand this mistake, I will add 2-3 points to your score (that 2-3 points can push student up from a D or C to a C or B).
  4. OR it really is too easy for him. So what do you do? Math can get harder. It really can. If it really is a prerequisite he needs just because he is dying to get to a higher level, then I might not worry too much. You know he knows this stuff. You just need it to be official. But if you think it is setting him up to fail when he reaches a 4-year uni, then you have to do something about it. What that is exactly will depend on kid, you and your goals.

Math was too easy for kiddo at the CC. Just very frustrating for him that problems assigned were not hard enough or no one wanted to take things further. So he:

  1. Went ahead in some courses because he knew he could access harder problems via AoPS/ MIT OCW and challenge himself at home too
  2. Approached prof during office hours to extend the discussion (but dependent on prof's time)
  3. Approached prof for harder problems...said instead of 20 easy problems, could he do 12-15 more challenging ones
  4. Eventually DE-ed at the university
  5. I don't know why there's a 5. :laugh: Just trying to make you smile. :laugh:
  6. Ah, I remember now...like others have said, if it his first course, let it go. You needed to try this to figure out what to do next. Sometimes we just have to take that risk whatever it is. How else would we know for sure how something works for our kid? We kept trying for 2-3 semesters hoping it was just a prof issue. But no, it isn't very different from prof to prof so far (only profs who ended up being worth the consistent trying were a music and lit prof).

 

 

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It is reasonable to request that he put in the minimum sugested study time and improve the grade to an A+. That will help him gain the study skills needed in the future. The expected workload is 2- 3 hrs out of class for each hour in class.if he needs a more immediate carrot,perhaps he could think of it as a worthy goal to get a tutoring job.

 

Well I did that, but he kinda looked at me like I have 10 heads.  Like are you trying to tell me an A minus is a terrible grade.  And he is right.  He knows the stuff.  His errors tend to be just dumb little errors or issues with penmanship.  He has lousy handwriting.  Although, I have to say he has put a ton of effort into being as neat as possible and I do know that is not something that is easy for him.  So that part I think does demonstrate that he takes it seriously and puts in effort.

 

I guess I'm just a crazy worrier or something. 

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I really can't afford courses at another Uni.  And certainly not for high school credit. 

 

We do challenge stuff at home together. 

 

I think I'm just being stupid.

 

 

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Haven't read everything... 

 

In our case, in terms of challenge, we found out early that competitions beat DEs or APs. 
In well-known competitions, you are up against the best of the nation and the tests are not as predictable.
 
My point is, if my kid is getting A/A+ in the first or second DE classes without much effort (and at a young age), it is probably time to look for something more challenging and do the DEs/APs for validations or LORs.
 
There is no better time to build not just credentials but character -- one who can deal with difficult things, 
not be #1 all the time, know there are so many who are better, be humble, able to persevere, improve, shake off failures, set goals, priorities, and other good stuff.
 
But your kid is not my kid, you can decide otherwise and it is ok too   :)
 
ETA: (and at a young age)
Edited by JoanHomeEd
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I don't know of any competitions.  And I'm not sure he is interested in that. 

 

I dunno.  He says stuff to me like just load me up with all the classes so I can get it over with (referring to high school).  I don't know if he is bored or lacks interest. 

 

And part of this is me thinking if I had these kinds of opportunities at his age I would have jumped at the chance.  I never did.  But can I really expect him to feel that way at this point?  Probably not.

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I would not allow my kids to take DE classes unless I was confident they could earn an A or B. It goes on the permanent transcript and could affect what they do later on in their college careers. So a B is my minimum grade expectation. When my dd took college classes through her high school, they were free if the student got an A or B. If they got a C or lower, supposedly the family then had to reimburse the school for the cost and the class didn't count for DE. In practice, I don't know how this would work because the school served a majority impoverished population, and I can't see how those families could have afforded that. And given that students had to have 3 DE classes to graduate, I am not sure how the school would expect families to fork over money for mandatory classes that they couldn't have afforded on their own. Anyway, that's an aside. The school expected an A or a B, and I think that's reasonable.

 

If someone puts their kids in DE without being confident their student can earn an A or B, I think they are doing their kids a disservice.

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Well I did that, but he kinda looked at me like I have 10 heads.  Like are you trying to tell me an A minus is a terrible grade.  And he is right.  

 

Here's my take: kids have enough pressure in their lives. If your 8th grader is getting an A- in a college class, I think that's great and I wouldn't pressure him to do better. It doesn't matter whether the CC is relatively harder or easier; your son is not even in high school, and he's earning an A in a college class. Not everything kids do has to be an exercise in going all out and over the top. Yes, maybe he could study more and earn an A+, but why? Do we want to set the example that we must be perfect in everything we do? Because that's an impossible standard to reach. If you think your son is mature and responsible enough to take DE classes, then he is also mature and responsible enough to decide for himself what grades he is satisfied with (with the obvious caveat that if he slacks off and gets poor grades, you will no longer allow him to take/pay for DE classes). My parents were extremely hard on me about my grades in both high school and college. I was grounded for an entire quarter my freshman year in high school for getting a B+ in advanced English. My mother told me she would pull me out and put me in general English (two levels down) if I didn't get an A or A+ the second quarter. I did get an A, but when I got an A- the third quarter, I was a nervous wreck. When I was in college I had to send my grades to my parents every quarter, and I heard about it if they weren't all A+ grades. Looking back, my parents were way too hard on me, and it didn't motivate me; it just gave me anxiety.

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Here's my take: kids have enough pressure in their lives. If your 8th grader is getting an A- in a college class, I think that's great and I wouldn't pressure him to do better. It doesn't matter whether the CC is relatively harder or easier; your son is not even in high school, and he's earning an A in a college class. Not everything kids do has to be an exercise in going all out and over the top. Yes, maybe he could study more and earn an A+, but why? Do we want to set the example that we must be perfect in everything we do? Because that's an impossible standard to reach. If you think your son is mature and responsible enough to take DE classes, then he is also mature and responsible enough to decide for himself what grades he is satisfied with (with the obvious caveat that if he slacks off and gets poor grades, you will no longer allow him to take/pay for DE classes). My parents were extremely hard on me about my grades in both high school and college. I was grounded for an entire quarter my freshman year in high school for getting a B+ in advanced English. My mother told me she would pull me out and put me in general English (two levels down) if I didn't get an A or A+ the second quarter. I did get an A, but when I got an A- the third quarter, I was a nervous wreck. When I was in college I had to send my grades to my parents every quarter, and I heard about it if they weren't all A+ grades. Looking back, my parents were way too hard on me, and it didn't motivate me; it just gave me anxiety.

 

Ugh yeah I don't want to be like that towards him.  Growing up I felt like my parents did not care about what I did in school.  They didn't seem interested in the slightest.  So there are these two extremes.  What's the middle ground?  I don't know.

 

I bite my tongue 99% of the time.  I'm just trying to get a grip on my thoughts here before I say something too stupid. 

 

I really appreciate the responses here. 

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Growing up I felt like my parents did not care about what I did in school.  They didn't seem interested in the slightest.  So there are these two extremes.  What's the middle ground?  

 

I think that the middle ground, in this instance, is telling your son that you wouldn't allow him to take DE if you weren't confident he could do well, reminding him that these grades are there for the duration, so he should have an interest in doing well, and letting him know that you are there for help and support should he need it but that you won't nag him about his grades. I don't think that a young person would view this as disinterest on your part. Also, I assume that you talk to him about how his classes are going and what he's learning, whether he's enjoying it, etc. I'm confident that your son knows you care.

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I think that the middle ground, in this instance, is telling your son that you wouldn't allow him to take DE if you weren't confident he could do well, reminding him that these grades are there for the duration, so he should have an interest in doing well, and letting him know that you are there for help and support should he need it but that you won't nag him about his grades. I don't think that a young person would view this as disinterest on your part. Also, I assume that you talk to him about how his classes are going and what he's learning, whether he's enjoying it, etc. I'm confident that your son knows you care.

 

Thank you!  I ran out of likes.

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To answer the question on should it be that easy...yes, its CC. Students we know who transfer to UB are not being able to sub their SUNY 2 yr credits for things like chem, if they need chem for their major.

 

When my kid looked at me like I had three heads, I sat him down and explained grade inflation. Guidance counselor had explained an 89 high school average is the min needed for a suny 4 year. The chart she handed out showed most have much higher -- his friends in the top 25% with a 90 average couldnt get in to SUNY Bing for ex. The top ten percent is more like a 98 average, unweighted and including DE. The high school grading scale is more 98+=A+, 95-97=A, 93-95=A-, 88-92=B+. DE transfers in with no weighting here, even if its Calc 2. The courses arent heavy, and should be considered courses for a nonmajor, unless the articulation aagreement says otherwise.CC is gen ed, not honors.

Edited by Heigh Ho
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We took the DE and some side research/ self learning route because I have a kid who isn't interested in competitions. We do not expect him to be perfect. But his CC is generally too easy on the students and this is not good for the goals my son wants to reach. So again, it will all depend on the goals.

 

Sparkly, :grouphug: and right there with you on the worrying and thinking I am stupid.

 

I don't know your situation but the thought that hits me is that he might not be doing something he is truly interested in. Are there other courses at the CC he might like to try that engage his specific talents? Is the math a prereq to those courses? I remember you mentioning he is good with his hands and has grand plans when building things. Might that be a better choice for him to put more of himself into? Just brainstorming...

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We took the DE and some side research/ self learning route because I have a kid who isn't interested in competitions. We do not expect him to be perfect. But his CC is generally too easy on the students and this is not good for the goals my son wants to reach. So again, it will all depend on the goals.

 

Sparkly, :grouphug: and right there with you on the worrying and thinking I am stupid.

 

I don't know your situation but the thought that hits me is that he might not be doing something he is truly interested in. Are there other courses at the CC he might like to try that engage his specific talents? Is the math a prereq to those courses? I remember you mentioning he is good with his hands and has grand plans when building things. Might that be a better choice for him to put more of himself into? Just brainstorming...

 

He is into programming, but he said he doesn't want to take programming at the CC.  Math is just "ok" to him. 

 

I don't care if he takes courses there or not.  I think it is good to put on the transcript, but otherwise really he can do what he wants. 

 

He gets frustrated because he isn't old enough to do what he wants to do.  So at this point I guess he feels like he's just waiting around for life to get started.  No clue what if anything I could do about that. 

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Yeah I don't think he would really be into it.  None of those places are anywhere near here.  The local schools don't allow homeschoolers to participate in anything ever. Whatever it is would have to be completely separate from any school.

 

And he is not in high school just yet.  Although soon....

 

 

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We never got any response from our local school when we emailed them about AMCs.
 

You can certainly do AMC 10 before high school either through somewhere not related to high schools or you can organize it yourself.
 

USAMTS is not like most competitions and you can do it at home. 

http://www.usamts.org/

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Evaluate the class and decide if it is actually teaching the content thoroughly and rigorously for that level. If, like me, you don't have the math chops to do this on your own, ask a knowledgeable friend to help. 

 

For example, the precalculus at our CC covers less and gives simpler problems than precalc at the university. There is often some variance in what is taught from school to school, but in this case the CC class is notably easier and will not prepare the student for higher levels of math. 

 

In that case, I prefer my kids to not take the class, because it's not worth the time wasted and there's the risk of turning them off of the subject (and of course they won't be well prepared for higher levels). 

 

If the class does cover all that it should, but just happens to be easy or a lot of review for the student, then I would let them take it while continuing with some challenge stuff at home, which is a much better use of his time than ratcheting up study hours in order to move an A- to an A+, or just because he "should" be studying more. 

 

I do think it's unreasonable to dwell on the fact that he doesn't have the highest A possible. If a class isn't worth taking, then don't have him take it. If it is worth taking, then just be happy that he's bringing home vowels. 

 

Every student does need to know how to work hard and study effectively, but those lessons just can't be taught effectively in a class that isn't challenging to the student. If he is capable of that, or learning to be so, in other areas, then I'd sing a little song and let it go. 

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I feel confident it is covering the right stuff.  I'm rather surprised by what it covers because it feels more to me like it is a pre calc class than a college algebra and trig class.  So that part doesn't bother me.  And his instructor is a professor (not adjunct) and she seems very on the ball. 

 

But I do hear you on this.  He does not want to take programming courses there I suspect because he doesn't think they are good enough.  That I would not know. 

 

But yeah part of it is this class was not a stretch for him at all.  Which IS what I wanted.  I guess I didn't expect it to be that easy for him, but I guess that boils down to me not knowing what his skill set is.  I suppose I should know this, but I don't exactly know what I'm doling either. 

 

 

Evaluate the class and decide if it is actually teaching the content thoroughly and rigorously for that level. If, like me, you don't have the math chops to do this on your own, ask a knowledgeable friend to help. 

 

For example, the precalculus at our CC covers less and gives simpler problems than precalc at the university. There is often some variance in what is taught from school to school, but in this case the CC class is notably easier and will not prepare the student for higher levels of math. 

 

In that case, I prefer my kids to not take the class, because it's not worth the time wasted and there's the risk of turning them off of the subject (and of course they won't be well prepared for higher levels). 

 

If the class does cover all that it should, but just happens to be easy or a lot of review for the student, then I would let them take it while continuing with some challenge stuff at home, which is a much better use of his time than ratcheting up study hours in order to move an A- to an A+, or just because he "should" be studying more. 

 

I do think it's unreasonable to dwell on the fact that he doesn't have the highest A possible. If a class isn't worth taking, then don't have him take it. If it is worth taking, then just be happy that he's bringing home vowels. 

 

Every student does need to know how to work hard and study effectively, but those lessons just can't be taught effectively in a class that isn't challenging to the student. If he is capable of that, or learning to be so, in other areas, then I'd sing a little song and let it go. 

 

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Yes. An A is preferable, a B is acceptable, a C is not.

Firstly, because it becomes part of the student's permanent college transcript; secondly, because I know that most college courses are set up in such a way that students who diligently do all the work and avail themselves of help opportunities should receive at least a B. A grade of C would signal that the student is not prepared for the course, either because of lack of academic preparation, or - which is most often the case - because of a lack of work ethic and time on task. The first I should be aware of as the homeschooling parent; the second I should strive to correct.

I would not set my student up for failure by letting him enroll in a college course for which a C is difficult to achieve.

 

ETA to clarify: the above is specifically about a high school student taking DE courses at a normal college - NOT for a college student, who may be at a tough school or may encounter a tough class where all effort may barely suffice to scrape a C. It would not be my place as a parent to prevent the student from taking that class, and if the student had shown great work ethic and made an effort, I would have absolutely no misgivings about a C.

I am adding this because some of DD's classes have been absolutely insane, with brutal, low average exams, and until the end of the course it was completely unclear how grades would fall. Had her heroic efforts only been rewarded a grade of C (instead of the A- she ended up actually getting), I would have been happy for her to have made it through the course in one piece.

But a DE student would have no business being in such a class.

So spot on and an excellent answer.

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Here is the link to the suny site showing freshmen high school gpa https://www.suny.edu/attend/academics/admissions-quick-facts/?tmp=1460556892000

 

Note that accelerated public schooled 8th graders do have their high school and above courses on their high school transcripts.these courses are included in their gpa unless they are above the state limit on the number that can be transferred in for high school credit (DE does not count toward that limit). Just a heads up on the competiton, not a suggestion of how you choose to run your school. Be aware that being admitted to a major is not the same as being admitted to the college. There is a .lot of competition for seats in certain majors, and high grades freshman year of college are part of the determining factor.the expectation is that one is willing to work to mastery.

Edited by Heigh Ho

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My kid's first quarter he got an A, B and F.  Yep, an F.  Why?  Because he didn't put in the time/ask for help with writing assignments that were difficult for him to comprehend. "How do you write about clicking a button?  That's what they wanted."  His other classes left his gpa high enough overall to continue.  The consequence?  I'm not paying for him to retake the course....he had no problem with that. DE program is covering half of it, unfortunately (I wish it didn't so he'd have more consequence!)  I'm hoping he learned his lesson, but not certain....he blames the assignment, unfortunately, rather than himself.  Does this mean he shouldn't have been in DE?  I don't know.  He's doing really well in other courses, so its hard to say.  And the course he failed...wasn't exactly anything he would have been more prepared for with time.  He's old enough to be in college anyway (held him back 8th grade.)  He just needed to learn to own his education?

 

His younger brother won't do DE for this reason.  I can't guarantee he could get an A in anything other than computer programming or art. (Extremely poor study skills, despite fabulous intellect.)  He aims for graduate school, so we're being cautious with him.  But I agree...if they can't make As and Bs, don't enroll.

 

Unfortunately, sometimes you don't know until you try!!

 

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Here is the link to the suny site showing freshmen high school gpa https://www.suny.edu/attend/academics/admissions-quick-facts/?tmp=1460556892000

 

Note that accelerated public schooled 8th graders do have their high school and above courses on their high school transcripts.these courses are included in their gpa unless they are above the state limit on the number that can be transferred in for high school credit (DE does not count toward that limit). Just a heads up on the competiton, not a suggestion of how you choose to run your school. Be aware that being admitted to a major is not the same as being admitted to the college. There is a .lot of competition for seats in certain majors, and high grades freshman year of college are part of the determining factor.the expectation is that one is willing to work to mastery.

 

Right now he has a 93 in the course.  So not bad at all.  But he really doesn't study.  He does the homework. Maybe the homework is enough. 

 

Interestingly he told me that the instructor told the class that spending 3 hours a week on the course is more than enough.  He does spend that amount doing the homework.

 

I am probably just being unreasonable. 

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