Help me see if there is any other way to look at this

[ProudGrandma]

My daughter's (age 15, grade 9) math: (Algebra) she has 85 lessons left of her program (and that includes all tests and quizzes). This is because she struggled with Algebra and it took us 7 months and 3 programs later to find one that works, and it's working really well. But we didn't start this until March. 

 

So, starting tomorrow through April 28 (doing one lesson each day and one on the weekend) she can get 14 lessons done.

 

May 4 (starting after grandparents visiting from 1400 miles away and the field trip) - June 4th she can get 24 lessons done for a total of 42...making 43 left.

 

June-July (if she works at the same pace) she will get 24 more lessons finished (we are gone for 3 weeks of vacation and 1 week for a youth trip...and that is not including any unscheduled camping trips or other activities)...making 19 left to finish at the beginning of the next school year....pushing off the start of geography. 

 

Geography (MUS) has 30 lessons of 6 days of work per lesson (5 worksheets plus a test) which equals 180 days of work which equals 9 months of 5 days a week (not taking off anything...Christmas or anything). So that is August-April...or Sept-May.

 

This all seems VERY overwhelming to my daughter, but I am not sure how to make it better.  Any suggestions?  the lessons are getting harder and longer...it is nearly impossible for her to do more than 1 a day...with all of the other work she has. (she started out doing 2 lessons a day,a but that is not working so well anymore)

 

Is this just a lost cause and we just need to plow though it?  Sigh...I feel like I have failed her gravely.  we just started this so late.  SIGH!!! (again).

 

Any words of comfort I can give her or encouragement? Any suggestions for me to help ease this situation? 

 

thanks. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by NEprairiemom

[Garga]

We're semi in the same boat as you, but not quite so far behind.

 

In the summer months, don't forget that the only subject she'll be doing for the day is algebra (I'm assuming). So, working during the summer actually won't be too big of a deal. The idea of doing math during summer break sounds just awful to a kid, but when there are no other academics it's not that big of a deal. If you're like us around here, the kids get a bit bored throughout the summer anyway. At least an hour or hour and a half of the day will be scheduled so she's not boooored the entire day. (YMMV--my kids get booooored all the time.)

 

There are two other options to give you a little wiggle room:

 

Option 1: do lessons on Saturday, so that math is 6 days a week. This allows you to bank time that can be taken off for Christmas, birthdays, etc.

 

Option 2: don't expect to be done geometry until the end of summer 2017. Give yourself a second summer to work through.

 

Also, whatever you do, reassess where you are every month or so if you skip any lessons. It's easy (ask me how I know) to think, "Oh, we'll just skip for this one day..." and end up skipping 10 lessons over 3 months and now you're 2 weeks behind.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Garga

[FriedClams]

1. Keep plugging. Sorry.

2. Can you combine tests and lessons? As in, do a lesson of, say, 30 problems. Select 20 to grade (skipping new material). Test and lesson, done.

3. 7 days a week. Traditional school kids at this age have homework, do a work every day isn't that huge a deal.

4. For geography - cut any junk or waste and shoot for two lessons daily.

[meltf928]

Keep in mind that if she understands the concept, it is definitely not necessary for her to complete every single page of every lesson. We are using MUS Algebra 1 as well. If my DD understands the new concept and she completes a Lesson Practice with 100% accuracy, then I have her move on to a Review. If she does that successfully, I have her take the test and then we move on.  Every other lesson or so I'll throw an extra review page at her just for practice.  

I'll say this too. The first 1/2 of MUS Alg 1 was very slow for her, but she is now finding her groove with it and moving along more easily.  

I would not rush in an urgency to get it done. I would make sure that she's fully understanding the concepts. That, ultimately, is most important.

 

[Eliz]

Did you mean geometry instead of geography?  If geometry, could you teach algebra and geometry in an integrated fashion?  For my younger daughter, we will be reviewing algebra next year as she's studying geometry.  She's very intelligent, but struggles with math.  Originally, we had thought of algebra 1 followed by algebra 2 to avoid the loss of skills.  But she's concerned about algebra 2.  Rather than stress her, she and I decided together to continue algebra 1 integrated into geometry.

[Eliz]

If you did, indeed, mean geography, I would cut back on the lessons and focus on math.  In my opinion, geography can be taught faster than math for a child that struggles with math.  

[ProudGrandma]

I meant geometry...not geography...UGH...

 

I just happened to mention to her if she could find it within herself to do a lesson on Sunday too (there are 10 Sunday's between now and the end of July that we will be around) that would take the number of lessons in August down to 9...so that is less than 2 weeks.  So she is contemplating that idea. 

 

And, I know that with MUS you dont' have to do each and every page for every lesson, so that will help our cause too (we did MUS until the fractions book)...and the algebra isn't MUS but I happened upon the MUS geometry, so we are going to try that in the fall. 

 

It is all so overwhelming at this point. 

 

thanks everybody.

[Meriwether]

My daughter is taking her sweet time getting through Algebra. We are going to continue working on Alegebra while we do Geometry next year, either finishing her work or doing review for the entire year. Of course, she will be working on it during the summer, too, but with out-of-state weddings/graduations and various other summer activities she will only have about 5 full weeks at home.

[prairiewindmomma]

The beginning of MUS geometry is very, very easy.  If she has had any exposure to geometry before, it should be possible for her to do both algebra and geometry in overlap together for those last bits of algebra. Just keep plowing.  It will be ok!

[ProudGrandma]

The beginning of MUS geometry is very, very easy.  If she has had any exposure to geometry before, it should be possible for her to do both algebra and geometry in overlap together for those last bits of algebra. Just keep plowing.  It will be ok!

 

This is VERY good to know.  thanks.

[abacus2]

Geometry and Algebra 2 can run concurrently. I recommend continuing to plug along, and starting Algebra 2 junior year on time even if there is still some Geometry to complete. The end of Geometry and the beginning of Algebra 2 can be going at the same time if needed to finish up.

[Lori D.]

Encouragement: Geometry is SOOOO different from Algebra that students who do well with Algebra often struggle with Geometry, and the Algebra-strugglers often really click with Geometry. And, MUS Geometry is very, very light -- almost nothing on proofs, so it's all the stuff that's easy to visualize. Geometry is a math that non-abstract thinkers can SEE. So the odds are, you will go through MUS Geometry much more quickly -- less than 1 year -- so by the end of next school year, you'll be right on track, probably without having to go into the summer to finish.  :)

 

Our example: DS#2 has mild LDs with abstract topics in math -- took us 1.5 years to get through Algebra 1. He flew through MUS Geometry in a little less than 1 semester. Most days he was easily doing 2 pages a day, so 1 lesson took 4 days. (I usually had him do page A and C on one day, B and D the second day, E on the third day, and either H or the lesson quiz on the fourth day -- we did not do all the Honors pages or all of the quizzes if he clearly was getting the concepts and getting 96-100% correct on the work pages.) For a number of the first lessons he was easily understanding it and we skipped the extra work pages in those lessons, so those lessons only took 3 days.

 

 

I know this is hard and scary and overwhelming for you and DD, but you just can't force Algebra faster than what the student can absorb it. And your really can't skip because Algebra 1 is absolutely foundational to Algebra 2.

 

The other possibility is doubling up next year and doing one session of Algebra 1 and later in the day, one lesson of Geometry. However, I really think DO you'll be okay by waiting and just starting MUS Geometry partway into next year once Algebra 1 is done. I don't recommend doubling up Geometry and Algebra 2 for a student who struggles with abstract math concepts -- Alg. 2 is more complex and difficult and I think the student in more apt to have a bit more "brain battery energy" for double math lessons when doubling up with Algebra 1, rather than Algebra 2. Or better yet, if the student clicks with Geometry, just do double lessons of Geometry, and devote all the brain battery energy for math to just single lessons of Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. Just my 2 cents worth from our experience our very visual-spatial learner with mild LDs in math...

 

Hoping your GOOD experience with MUS Geometry will be similar to ours! Hang in there! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Lori D.

[OnMyOwn]

The beginning of MUS geometry is very, very easy. If she has had any exposure to geometry before, it should be possible for her to do both algebra and geometry in overlap together for those last bits of algebra. Just keep plowing. It will be ok!

I agree. This is what my ds has been doing most of the year because many of the geometry lessons are quick. When they are longer, I have him do half of the lesson each day instead of the whole thing. We are prioritizing algebra II and if he has to finish a little geometry over the summer or next year, so be it. He never spends more than 30 minutes on MUS geometry.

Edited April 5, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[J-rap]

A good, solid understanding of Algebra is so important -- THE most important math to learn in high school (my personal opinion).  I wouldn't try and hurry through it.  I'd just plan to take all of next academic year to complete it.  Don't even worry about doing it over the summer, unless she wants to try and get in a lesson here and there.  Then, Geometry in 11th grade and Algebra II in 12th.  If she happens to get done with Algebra earlier than planned next year, you can get a jump start on Geometry.

 

We did that with two of our kids and it worked out fine.  They got into college no problem.  

Edited April 5, 2016 by J-rap

[MerryAtHope]

Honestly...I think it sounds intense too. What I would do:

 

Work 5 days a week, and help her progress as fast as she can, but not faster. She needs to master and understand the material. If she can work that 6th day and she can retain and it's going well, fine. If it's overwhelming and her brain needs the break, cut back to 5. Sometimes trying to cram in too much at too fast of a pace doesn't work. This is definitely a case where I would want to gauge how things go. 

 

I agree about MUS allowing you to not have to do all of the lessons if they've got it. My kids would not have done well doubling up (having to do both algebra and geometry in one day). So again, I'd really wait to see how things are going and where she is at the end of the summer with algebra. I think I'd be more likely to let her start geometry when she finishes algebra. Unless she is planning on going on in a field that requires more upper math beyond algebra 2, I'm not sure the point in trying to cram things in at a faster pace. Why not just let her keep working at a good, steady pace and progress to new levels as she's ready? 

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't know what program you are using for algebra, but if it's Saxon, it does get more intense as the book progresses.

However, it is really common for people to take both algebra and geometry together, and actually what she could do is start geometry this summer when things are light, and take the pressure off of next year.  Geometry is SO different from algebra, it might actually be refreshing for her if it turns out that she is better at geometry.  An advantage of that approach is that once she finishes algebra 1 she can continue with geometry but won't have as big a gap before starting algebra 2--that means that she might be able to skip some of the typical review lessons at the beginning of algebra 2.  So really you are catching this at exactly the point where you have the most flexibility, which is awesome!

[Mom22ns]

I'm going to chime in with another vote not to worry. MUS Geometry will NOT take a full year. Keep plugging through Algebra and start Geometry when she finishes. I will bet she finishes Geometry on time next year, even with the late start. If not, it won't take all summer. She'll be fine and ready to go for Algebra 2 the following year.

 

Both my kids used MUS Geometry. One is very slow with multiple LD's and even he finished MUS Geometry in less than a year.

[ProudGrandma]

Carol in CAL asked what program we are using for Algebra...it's call Math Relief Algebra.  

 

thank you so much everybody who told me MUS Geometry won't take a full year...but that brings me to another question...it is enough to be considered a HS Geometry course?  Someone said they hardly do proofs? What about the ACT test...I do want to prepare her for that.  

 

thanks again EVERYBODY for responding.  I feel much better about the whole situation now.

 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

MUS Geometry is enough for a high school course. It is gentle, but adequate.  It should be enough for the ACT.  It's not what I'd recommend for someone who wants to go STEM at a competitive university, but it's enough for everybody else, imo.

[Mom22ns]

thank you so much everybody who told me MUS Geometry won't take a full year...but that brings me to another question...it is enough to be considered a HS Geometry course?  Someone said they hardly do proofs? What about the ACT test...I do want to prepare her for that.  

 

thanks again EVERYBODY for responding.  I feel much better about the whole situation now.

 

MUS Geometry covers everything on the ACT. Proofs are not on the ACT. My kids never missed a geometry question on the ACT practice tests (I didn't look that closely at the real thing). 

 

I definitely consider it enough to be a full high school geometry course, or I wouldn't have used it twice. I'm not sure it is the best choice if your student will need Calculus and above in college. MUS geometry does only offer a light introduction to proofs. If your child is going to do math that will require extensive proofs in college, I think they would be at a disadvantage. 

[Pen]

I suggest continuing the algebra, plugging away as planned. But also suggest overlapping geometry with the algebra during the summer, and possibly going right on to algebra 2 once done with algebra 1 and plugging on that as needed while still overlapping geometry.

[Lori D.]

...thank you so much everybody who told me MUS Geometry won't take a full year...but that brings me to another question...it is enough to be considered a HS Geometry course?  Someone said they hardly do proofs? What about the ACT test...I do want to prepare her for that.  

 

Yes, MUS is light, but it covers all the topics for counting as one full credit.

 

Proofs are not on the ACT. Geometry topics covered are coordinate geometry (slope, equation of a line, graphing equations, conic sections), and plane geometry (angles, lines, triangles, polygons, circles).

Edited April 5, 2016 by Lori D.

[lllll]

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Edited April 20, 2016 by _ ?^..

[DebbS]

From my experience it was better for my kids to continue with their math, even if at a slower pace, over the summer. That way, they didn't forget what they learned. Here's a few ideas. I show what we actually did with my soon to graduate daughter in italics.

 

9th Grade - 1 semester Pre-algebra (call the other courses you did prep-work). 1 semester Algebra I.  Finish up through 1/2 of the course this summer

10th Grade - 1 semester Algebra I, 1 semester geometry or combine them and make it integrated Algebra/Geometry. Again, keep going through the summer

11th Grade - 1 semester Geometry or if you combined, finish up both the Algebra and Geometry the 1st semester. Then you could move on to Algebra II and work through the summer if needed. We added some statistics in at this point.

12th Grade - 1st semester finish Algebra II, 2nd semester something like Statistics, Number Theory or pre-calc if you think she's headed toward a STEM career.  My daughter is taking dual credit math this Spring to get her college math requirement out of the way.

 

BTW, dd had absolutely no trouble getting accepted into college with the math plan as described above.

 

If you combine Algebra and Geometry, you'd want to cover several chapters in Algebra and then several in Geometry. Look for logical changes in direction to know when to switch to between the two. Usually we were at least a month in Algebra and then a month in Geometry. Sometimes longer.  As you move between the two, be sure to take some time out every few weeks for review of whichever you aren't working on at the time. It might slow you down, but actually, it helps the concepts to stick.

 

 

[MerryAtHope]

Carol in CAL asked what program we are using for Algebra...it's call Math Relief Algebra.  

 

thank you so much everybody who told me MUS Geometry won't take a full year...but that brings me to another question...it is enough to be considered a HS Geometry course?  Someone said they hardly do proofs? What about the ACT test...I do want to prepare her for that.  

 

thanks again EVERYBODY for responding.  I feel much better about the whole situation now.

 

MUS is plenty. However, I'll be the dissenter and say that neither of my kids finished geometry in less than a school-year. Of course it can be done, but whether every student is ready for that is going to vary (and my kids test well in math on the ACT). Again, go at her pace--I wouldn't "count" on that happening unless she's really getting it and zipping along. Work steadily and don't worry about "how fast" she's going. If you can go faster or double-up, great, but I wouldn't worry about it if not. Laying a solid foundation in math skills is more important. A lot of the skill involved in doing proofs is about having good logic skills. I think kids who want to go on in STEM fields can pick that up though. Like others said, it's not needed for the ACT. 

[abacus2]

I didn't suggest doing Algebra 2 senior year because I assumed TN regulations had some correlation to what colleges are expecting now. In TN public high schools, no one can  earn a diploma without completing Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and one math course beyond Algebra 2.

[shanezomom]

OP, I think it might help to hire a math tutor for an assessment and let him/her walk through some of the basics with dd. If it took months to get the right book or program, it might help to hear an outside observer tell you what's up and make suggestions. 

 

I am just like you and have gotten the calendar out and projected how many days and how many lessons, etc. remain in the year when I'm in panic mode. It rarely works out because so much comes up in real life.I just think consulting with someone who can actually see your dd at work with the material might really help the situation.  

 

Hugs...you're not alone!

[Janeway]

I would favor not rushing it and just spending 1.5 yrs on algebra.

 

Thing is, algebra is the foundation for the rest of the courses. You can really skimp on geometry and easily get it done in half a year. Heck, we are doing Jurgenson's and that would be easy to do in half a year.  Algebra 2, if she really gets algebra 1 down, can easily be completed in a semester. So don't see it as three months to finish algebra one but rather a few more years to finish the high school sequence.