What things do some homeschoolers do to give us a bad name?

[EmilyGF]

I was going to post the same thing. If you've enrolled your child in a class, please take them to the restroom and get water before coming to class. No, I just can't send your young child to the restroom alone in our large building which is often open to the public. Yes, I do have a helper but that helper is usually busy with class activities.

 

Lest anyone think I'm cruel and deny the restroom to young children, it's inevitable that a child has to go potty just as class is beginning.

When I was an exchange student in Germany, there was another girl at the same school who was always drinking from a water bottle. Always. The German students asked me, "Why can't she take a break from drinking? Is something wrong with her?" They saw drinking in class as very disrespectful, even though it was just water.

Sometimes it is interesting to get an outside look at one's culture.

Emily

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't think this is something that falls in the bad rep category, but is a skill to develop.

Teach your kids how to be at an activity without you. I have seen a lot of homeschool field trips where the parent and siblings are along. Some families are reluctant to sign up for a team unless all their kids can participate. I get the issue of spreading yourself too thin.

 

On the other hand by middle school and high school, many B&M kids know how to go on a sports tourney without their parents. They go to academic competitions with just one or two teachers as coach/advisor. They have to get to the right rooms with the right materials with teammate help or on their own.

[creekland]

When I was an exchange student in Germany, there was another girl at the same school who was always drinking from a water bottle. Always. The German students asked me, "Why can't she take a break from drinking? Is something wrong with her?" They saw drinking in class as very disrespectful, even though it was just water.

Sometimes it is interesting to get an outside look at one's culture.

Emily

 

FWIW, a major reason many of us teachers allow drinks and/or food during class is because we have some who need to be able to have drinks and/or food for medical reasons (diabetes, etc).  We don't want them to feel singled out by giving them special treatment, so we open it up to all.  No one has to wonder if there's something wrong with another student.

 

There really is no harm done to anyone.

 

Of course, there are also those who don't get up early enough to eat breakfast at home and still make it to school on time.  Sure I could force that issue, but why?  Kids learn better when they aren't hungry.  School starts at 7:30am and most go to bed quite late due to activities and/or homework.  At college the earliest classes my guys have experienced are 8 or even 9am.  If students enter the work force directly they'll adjust to their schedules.  I see no need to force it super early just because.

 

My generally unspoken rule is that no one can be disruptive or leave their trash all over.  It's an unspoken rule because my classes are run treating everyone as an adult, so acting like one comes naturally to most.  When a few don't, the other kids tend to take care of the problem for me or I simply remind them it's not the janitor's job to clean up things like that.  ;)

 

YMMV

[lllll]

nm

Edited December 14, 2015 by ^ 022

[daijobu]

 

Many professors will get towards the end of the semester and suddenly realize they're behind on the syllabus and speed up drastically, so try to stay ahead at the beginning of the semester and all along, else you'll be blindsided by that when it happens.

 

 

 

Agreed.  They spend an unnecessary amount of time on the easy stuff at the start of class, then hand-wave quickly through the most difficult stuff at the end.  

[Deee]

I work part -time as an adult educator. Plenty of adults spend the whole break talking and then go to the toilet during the lesson. I don't let it bother me - they pay me to attend a course. If they want to miss bits of it because they can't attend to their personal needs, thats their problem. I treat my bookclub teens the same way - its really undignified to have to ask to go to the toilet. If you need to go, just excuse yourself and go.

 

I do have a few pet peeves, though. Parents of gifted kids who think that they are old enough to attend all the older teen activities. Yes, they may be able to write 5 page essays and do year 9 maths, but they are not teens and they do not have all the same social skills and needs as older teens. i'm sure they are both lovely and brilliant, but if they are not old enough to sit in class without you, they are probably also not old enough to sit through some of the discussions that the older kids are having, and those kids have a right to discuss that stuff. They don't need to moderate it because you insist that your 10 year old is on the same level. Nor does the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney have to change its science education programme to accommodate you and your 9 year old in a high school class (yes, this really happened).

 

And my bookclub peeve. I don't care if you are a radical unschooler. If you send your kid to my bookclub, I expect that he/she will have read the book. If I give you a list of books at the beginning of the year, get the books or don't come. This is an educational activity, not free child minding. And if you aren't going to come, let me know, i do this for nothing. Be polite. Knock yourself out!

 

I think I need a cup of tea now......

[Deee]

While the kettle is boiling, I thought of another one. When you attend an external class with your child, be quiet. The class is for the CHILDREN. Don't ask questions from the sidelines, don't play one-up-manship games with the instructor, don't let your little kids disrupt the class, and don't talk loudly with the other parents. Sit quietly or go outdoors.

 

I could also have a rant about multiple - child discounts, but my tea is ready.....

D

[Tsuga]

Um...I have a Bachelor of Science from a large state university and I've never heard of a Blue Book (what the heck?)...

 

It's a humanities thing. :)

 

 

Pet peeve three, is that in going to the public library, I have seen homeschoolers snub each other.  I saw a woman telling another woman about a Lego club her kids are in.  This woman asked if they might be able to join.  The first woman looked her up and down and said "I don't think so."  It was one of the rudest things I have ever seen between two adults.

 

:svengo: Surely that is a one-off and unique to that lady and not homeschoolers? I mean how incredibly rude!!!

 

Being on their high-horse about what they eat, wear, play with, do, live in, drive, grow, etc. It's the little snide comments and one-up-man-ship that drives me batty with homeschoolers. Ex. Girl Scout troop at a karaoke party. Homeschooled kids (minus mine who knows who Taylor Swift is) sitting in the corner b/c they don't know the pop songs to sing them with the other girls. The hsed moms just sat there bragging on how 'counter-culture' their kids were b/c they 'aren't allowed to listen to inappropriate music' and only know 'church hymns.' And you'd think they wouldn't come, right? Oh no, can't give up an opportunity to sit there and be "better" than the ps-ed moms!!! It's the judging that makes me inwardly groan. 

 

But... don't your kids EVER interact with other kids, go on the Internet, just play without you directing their cultural learning? Other than that, the high-horse phenomenon is very sadly somewhat universal and not at all exclusive to homeschooled kids.

 

Kids wearing no shirt and no shoes to park day b/c 10 yr old Snowflake Susie can't be bothered with footwear and a t-shirt in the winter. ...

 

Oh, are you SURE those are homeschooled? My kids aren't forced to wear anything from age 9 on. I will let them go, as will many people around here. "Listen or suffer, but don't whine when we're there or you're not coming back."

 

I think you've hit on a lot of really rude behavior that is in my experience not homeschooling behavior at all.

 

One complain I've heard quite a bit, not sure if it's true or not...to put their name on their papers? I've heard homeschooled kids are not used to doing that, and makes it harder for teachers when they go somewhere else

 

I always do that and I've been in institutions from age 4. I am forgetful.

 

 

One thing that I didn't cover with my children--dealing with folks cheating off of them. I think that's just about ALL dd learned from her first music theory class at college, but it was important to learn

 

 

:huh:  What sort of college was that? I don't remember learning that skill in public school. Some people cheated, but it was usually cheaters and non-studiers in the back and they all failed together.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Tsuga

[EmilyGF]

It's a humanities thing. :)

 

We used Blue Books for all our exams, and it doesn't get more sciencey/techy than the college I went to. But I'd never heard of them before college and it took me all of a few minutes to figure out the whole Blue Book thing.

 

Emily

[Kat w]

I haven't read the replies. But IMO....

 

Is to not in fact educate their kids but then...I personally don't consider them homeschoolers. Unfortunately , the rest of the world does.

[Kat w]

Lecka,

 

I saw where you said that about the Lego club.

 

That very thing has happened to me. I didn't even know Lego clubs exisisted ! Lol.

 

She says....are you living under a rock? Or just have girls! Baha.

 

I had to laugh at her. Of course , I did not join their co-op or...their Lego club lol

Edited December 7, 2015 by Kat w

[Kat w]

Being on their high-horse about what they eat, wear, play with, do, live in, drive, grow, etc. It's the little snide comments and one-up-man-ship that drives me batty with homeschoolers. Ex. Girl Scout troop at a karaoke party. Homeschooled kids (minus mine who knows who Taylor Swift is) sitting in the corner b/c they don't know the pop songs to sing them with the other girls. The hsed moms just sat there bragging on how 'counter-culture' their kids were b/c they 'aren't allowed to listen to inappropriate music' and only know 'church hymns.' And you'd think they wouldn't come, right? Oh no, can't give up an opportunity to sit there and be "better" than the ps-ed moms!!! It's the judging that makes me inwardly groan.

 

Kids wearing no shirt and no shoes to park day b/c 10 yr old Snowflake Susie can't be bothered with footwear and a t-shirt in the winter. 11 yr olds who can't read b/c mom insists on not "directly teaching" the kids.

 

Snubbing those who aren't unschoolers and accusing them of abusing their kids by teaching them. Kids not brushing their hair, just looking like a hot mess walking around. Saying ignorant things, letting their kids be rude or disrespectful to others b/c they're so "independent-minded". No, your kid is being a jerk, be a parent!!

 

 

Expecting special treatment b/c you're a homeschooler. Thinking your kids don't have to follow the rules of a traditional classroom setting (church, co-op) b/c you're a radical unschooler. Great, then don't come here and participate if you don't want me to say "no" to your kid!! Being non-normal so you can brag on it.

 

Suffice to say, I have no homeschool friends ;)

I homeschool and these are huge pet peeves for me too.

 

I've had my kids in PS for a bit too. Bu a homeschooler at heart.

 

Some parents, should just sit certain activities out IMO. Don't make it miserable for those who want to attend and participate.

 

I have to say over 18 yrs of homeschooling , I have grown quite tired of this from other homeschool families but, I think there is some of this in the PS system too say...with gifted programs/kids and their families

 

Jus my 2 cents

Edited December 7, 2015 by Kat w

[kirstenhill]

I don't think this is something that falls in the bad rep category, but is a skill to develop.

Teach your kids how to be at an activity without you. I have seen a lot of homeschool field trips where the parent and siblings are along. Some families are reluctant to sign up for a team unless all their kids can participate. I get the issue of spreading yourself too thin.

 

On the other hand by middle school and high school, many B&M kids know how to go on a sports tourney without their parents. They go to academic competitions with just one or two teachers as coach/advisor. They have to get to the right rooms with the right materials with teammate help or on their own.

I really hope this changes as my DD gets older, but I have tried to sign up my DD for a few homeschooling activities targeted at her age group (she's 6th grade, so these were basically middle school activities), and they said a parent HAD to attend or stay on the premises. She would be more than happy to attend on her own, but I'm certainly not going to pay a sitter for her brothers so I can attend with her! (Maybe I could keep them entertained while they were waiting for her if we were just in another room at say, a library...but with one two hour class in particular I really wanted to use the time to run errands, not be forced to keep my typically loud boys quiet in a library for two whole hours!). Needless to say we passed on a few great classes because it just wasn't practical with her being the oldest of four.

 

I do worry about my free spirited, creative, possibly ADHD six year old DS as being judged as "that weird homeschooled kid." He is the type of kid to wear really weird combinations of inside out and backwards clothing (because, "mom, I am being an orange fire ninja so I have to wear these pants inside out with a red shirt - only the inside of these pants are orange!"), and what I suspect to be ADHD causes him to do really impulsive things like jump up on a pallet of sugar packages at the store and start dancing. Hopefully people see my other kids are a bit more "typical" and don't judge homeschoolers by him. Because he would be quirky if we weren't homeschooling too, I think.

[shawthorne44]

Only half on topic, but maybe it will be helpful.  I got a hint on always getting your name on your paper from a fellow student in drafting class.   He always wrote his name on the paper as a reward to himself when he finished it.  He was an excellent student so I filed that away.

[Reefgazer]

*Raising hand*  Guilty.

Ack...  I see a lot of this, but it's usually with newer homeschoolers (sorry, guys).  In my most nonjudgmental tone...I see a lot of families not getting to their schoolwork for long periods of time, because they have scheduled so many outside activities (for socialization).  I notice some homeschoolers have a tendency to really over schedule their kids - I'm guessing it's to help with the socialization argument.  I feel like we're over scheduled, too - but, we homeschoolers don't have to put them in so much stuff!  (I know easier said than done)      

 

[Kat w]

Names on their papers....my boys PS teachers cheif complaint.

 

Now I won't take it without their name. :/ had to. Teachers as they get older it in college. ..yea. They don't play dat lol

 

Oh. But a close second would be...lost planners. At school even!

On teacher once found my older guys planner on the playground . he had buried it in the dirt. Lol

 

At home. He buried his shoes.

O dunno. ....he finally quit that when we ga e consequence for every buried item.

Oiy :/

Edited December 7, 2015 by Kat w

[Hilltopmom]

I really hope this changes as my DD gets older, but I have tried to sign up my DD for a few homeschooling activities targeted at her age group (she's 6th grade, so these were basically middle school activities), and they said a parent HAD to attend or stay on the premises. She would be more than happy to attend on her own, but I'm certainly not going to pay a sitter for her brothers so I can attend with her! (Maybe I could keep them entertained while they were waiting for her if we were just in another room at say, a library...but with one two hour class in particular I really wanted to use the time to run errands, not be forced to keep my typically loud boys quiet in a library for two whole hours!). Needless to say we passed on a few great classes because it just wasn't practical with her being the oldest of four.

 

 

I run a co op with a "parents must stay rule". Several reasons:

 

Half the kids seriously cannot behave without a parent present.

 

Parents want to drop off all 7 of their kids ages 3-15 with the teachers for free babysitting/ teaching while they run errands all day (but yet not ever volunteer to teach or help out themselves all year)

 

Our insurance policy (required by the space we use) states that parents must be present. (Without a parent, they wanted us to have a day care policy which requires a ton of documentation & training and costs much more)

[Hilltopmom]

My pet peeves are parents who insist on staying with kids at drop off events (for kids with no special needs)

 

Parents who talk all during classes, field trips, presentations & won't correct their kids misbehaviors.

 

Parents who insist all their kids must be in a group together with the oldest child- causing the whole group to be dumbed down & too loud. Ugh.

 

Expecting bright upper elem/ middle schoolers to be allowed in all teen groups & activities. My teens want to hang out & chat or play a game or take a class without your 10 year old. Sorry.

 

Oh, & parents who want to be in a co op, but not ever actually want to teach all year, while I'm teaching 3 classes a meeting to make up for it.

 

Eta- yes, I'm a little bitter this year, I know. Getting burnt out on leading stuff.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Hilltopmom

[Kat w]

∆∆∆ that's annoying

 

In thst position I mean

Edited December 7, 2015 by Kat w

[kirstenhill]

I run a co op with a "parents must stay rule". Several reasons:

 

Half the kids seriously cannot behave without a parent present.

 

Parents want to drop off all 7 of their kids ages 3-15 with the teachers for free babysitting/ teaching while they run errands all day (but yet not ever volunteer to teach or help out themselves all year)

 

Our insurance policy (required by the space we use) states that parents must be present. (Without a parent, they wanted us to have a day care policy which requires a ton of documentation & training and costs much more)

That makes sense for a co-op...it makes a lot less sense to me for a paid class (unless yeah, maybe it is just an insurance issue). I guess the thing about a co-op is that something is usually offered for all ages. We do a clo-op and all parents stay on site because parents are expected to help out somewhere every time we meet. At a sewing class for 6th-8th graders where I am wanting to or someone to teach my DD how to sew, there is nothing for my three boys to do.

[waa510]

It's a humanities thing. :)

 

 

:svengo: Surely that is a one-off and unique to that lady and not homeschoolers? I mean how incredibly rude!!!

 

 

I think you've hit on a lot of really rude behavior that is in my experience not homeschooling behavior at all.

 

 

I always do that and I've been in institutions from age 4. I am forgetful.

 

 

 

 

:huh:  What sort of college was that? I don't remember learning that skill in public school. Some people cheated, but it was usually cheaters and non-studiers in the back and they all failed together.

 

 

 

That's awesome that that's not your experience, where do you live??? I genuinely want to live there! I've lived in Texas, Georgia, Washington, Virginia, Florida, Connecticut and now Japan. Homeschoolers were/are like that in every single spot.  Northern VA was the worst by far. 

[Proudpapa77]

teaching young earth creationism as scientific fact, that evolution is "just a theory," etc., etc. 

[creekland]

teaching young earth creationism as scientific fact, that evolution is "just a theory," etc., etc. 

 

Lest you think this is only something homeschoolers do, allow me to mention there are plenty of ps students with that view too.  We don't teach it in ps, but they've definitely picked it up from their parents or elsewhere.

 

Sometimes I wonder how much homeschoolers stereotype ps students and their parents...

[pinkmint]

 

I've had people say "Oh, I knew a homeschooler once and they. . . ."  and my reply is "why are you telling me this?  I am not them.  If you are worried about whether I might not do XYZ, why not directly ask me my views on XYZ?"  I am not responsible for people jumping to conclusions about "all" homeschoolers when they are using faulty logic. 

 

Had this happen to me recently. A lady I met was not doing a good job of hiding her disdain for homeschooling (after finding out I homeschool my kids) and brought up that she knows some homeschooled kids who are now young adults and are "not where they should be". Because everyone who goes through public school ends up exactly where they should be? 

 

I was caught off guard and didn't know how to reply to her at the time, but later I thought of some things to say. I wonder how other homeschoolers respond to these types of comments. 

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm filling in for the homeschool art teacher this month. Again, I know it's not unique to homeschoolers, but that's the context of this conversation, so  I'll add two more to my list.

 

Not being able to work diligently during class time.

 

One of the most commonly cited reasons for homeschooling is the ability to work at a child's individual pace.  I think that phrasing means very different things to different homeschoolers.  For some it means doing what you're capable of, when you're capable of doing it at a pace that you're capable of.  That's a good thing. For others, the phrase is used when they mean allowing a child to set his or her own pace to suit his or her own preferences. That's a terrible attitude for a class setting and it's a bad idea to normalize that for children who aren't naturally inclined to diligence.  They're completely different things, but the same phrase is used.

Some parents actually make the problem worse by routinely allowing slothfulness at a price.  They tell their kids they have to get certain things done and if they don't they lose a privilege until those things are completed. . Some children are completely unmotivated by losing the privilege and routinely give up screen time or  free time, or whatever because they spend aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll daaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy loooooooooooooong doing a bit of school here, staring out the window, making up stories in their heads, a bit of school there, doodling on their paper, looking at the pictures in chapters of their textbooks that they're not actually studying, doing a bit more school, petting the cat............. They never learn to work at a diligent pace as a matter of habit.  Then these kids show up to a class and take far too long to accomplish multi-step tasks within their ability range, so the teacher is forced to choose between: 1. constantly redirecting them like preschoolers, 2. reteaching the same steps again later-sometimes several times because the class is no longer a single class, it's essentially several classes being juggled at the same time, 3. ignoring them and teaching at the pace of the diligent kids.

 

Not being able to make simple decisions in a timely way.

When making a craft where they have to choose 5 different buttons from several color options or choosing a flavor of sucker from a large bag of suckers with a line of 10 kids behind them, they should be able to pick them quickly. It's not Sophie's Choice.  There are no potential negative consequences if you pick A over B, C, D, and E and then later wish you had picked C but it's too late. I think it's a parenting problem where the parent is prioritizing the child's preferences above all other things at all times. 

 

Yes, at home you can burn 6 solid minutes agonizing over which food coloring to put in the frosting for the cupcakes, but it isn't doing your child or anyone else any favors.  It's reinforcing fussiness that ruins group activities.  Yes, it's OK to ask a child which flavor of otter pop he or she likes, but if the child takes more than a few seconds to decide, then the person in charge should say something like, "Well, they are no bad choices.  I'm going to count to 5 and if you don't decide by then, I'll decide for you."  Then the adult follows through with it even if there are tears, weeping and wailing.  You don't make a Christmas list that way, you don't decide which book to buy like that, but in a group setting with a time limit and a line of kids who need to get things picked and moving along, it's necessary and preferable.

 

 

[albeto.]

Lest you think this is only something homeschoolers do, allow me to mention there are plenty of ps students with that view too.  We don't teach it in ps, but they've definitely picked it up from their parents or elsewhere.

 

Sometimes I wonder how much homeschoolers stereotype ps students and their parents...

 

It's one thing to believe a thing is true, quite another for an educator to teach it is factual. I agree this contributes to giving homeschoolers a bad name - teaching mythology and known falsehoods as factual information. Many people take pride in this, even.

Edited December 9, 2015 by albeto.

[swellmomma]

In this case, it is the bubble sheets that accompany the machine that the teacher complaining about. 

Until this thread I have never heard of the word scantron.  We call them bubble sheets, always have, always will.  Have to think now if my teens know what they are and how to do them.  Never really considered it before.

[creekland]

It's one thing to believe a thing is true, quite another for an educator to teach it is factual. I agree this contributes to giving homeschoolers a bad name - teaching mythology and known falsehoods as factual information. Many people take pride in this, even.

 

I'm pretty sure you missed my point.  My point was that there are plenty of ps parents who do the same - as evidenced by the fact that they aren't getting this knowledge in ps.  We don't even touch it in ps.  (We do teach evolution - we just don't compare, etc.  Someone who doesn't know creationism or ID exist won't get that info in our public schools except from other students when they ask questions.)  There are plenty of kids who come in already knowing and/or believing. 

[Haiku]

Then the adult follows through with it even if there are tears, weeping and wailing.  You don't make a Christmas list that way, you don't decide which book to buy like that, but in a group setting with a time limit and a line of kids who need to get things picked and moving along, it's necessary and preferable.

 

I once taught a co-op class and had a boy in it who was younger than my age guidelines. He clearly wasn't ready for the class, and he wanted to dominate the conversation with off-topic comments. At one point he had a fit and ran from the classroom weeping because I had said, "We only have time for three more comments, and you have commented several times today, so it's time to give other people a chance."

 

He never came back to the class, and every time he saw me after that he would make awful faces at me and then run and hide, like I was going to beat him or something. I was very glad when they stopped coming to our homeschool group events.

[SkateLeft]

I don't know many homeschoolers who bad mouth public schools. I guess this just depends on your community. After 15+ years of homeschooling, I have MORE respect for teachers than I did before. I know how much work it can be to teach my own kids. I can't imagine trying to teach other people's kids!

 

One thing that makes me cringe when I meet other homeschool families is how within the first five minutes they'll tell me all of their children's labels. Most often, this seems to occur in families with young children. It's like a "geek code" of sorts. The other thing that drives me nuts is one-upping. I can't STAND the one-upping and competitiveness. It's why I stopped attending our local gifted group years ago. I can't handle those people at all.

 

As far as things public school kids know that homeschooled kids don't, this is going to sound awkward, but I found that I had to teach my teens the meanings of swear words (and why we don't use them). When my older kids started encountering traditionally schooled kids as they got older, I found they'd come home and ask me what such-and-such a word meant because another teen used it. After my oldest was teased at swim team for not knowing what a word meant, I sat her down and we had a little life lesson. It was pretty uncomfortable for both of us, but I'd rather they hear this stuff from me and get my take on it than from other kids.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I once taught a co-op class and had a boy in it who was younger than my age guidelines. He clearly wasn't ready for the class, and he wanted to dominate the conversation with off-topic comments. At one point he had a fit and ran from the classroom weeping because I had said, "We only have time for three more comments, and you have commented several times today, so it's time to give other people a chance."

 

He never came back to the class, and every time he saw me after that he would make awful faces at me and then run and hide, like I was going to beat him or something. I was very glad when they stopped coming to our homeschool group events.

Yep.  Clueless parents are a plague on society.  I once attended a church service where I had my arm on the pew behind on of my kids.  I child who looked about 5 or 6 was in the pew behind us with an adult male, possibly his father.  The kid leaned forward and started blowing on my arm.  I assumed the adult would be horrified and stop him as soon as he saw it so I didn't react immediately. The adult either didn't notice or did notice and chose not to intervene, so I turned around and made eye contact with the kid and then the adult.  Nothing.  The kid continued as soon as I turned back to the front of the church.  I turned around again and said quietly in a neutral tone of voice, "Don't blow on my arm."  The adult seemed upset.  When the service was over the adult said to the child, "Come on, we're leaving! And glared at me for a long time as they left.  Did he think it would bother anyone that they stormed out?  Nope.  We were glad they left and any potential Sunday School teacher would  thrilled to know they didn't have to deal with those two. B-Bye!

 

 

I don't know many homeschoolers who bad mouth public schools. I guess this just depends on your community. After 15+ years of homeschooling, I have MORE respect for teachers than I did before. I know how much work it can be to teach my own kids. I can't imagine trying to teach other people's kids!

 

I have a theory about this.   I started homeschooling in 2000, back before all the school shootings, crazy test prep, and Common Core type issues were getting a lot of press.  I think we had a much higher percentage of philosophical homeschoolers (Pioneers) who were into homeschooling because they believed home was the naturally occurring (for our secular friends) or divinely designed  (for our religious friends) learning environment for children because children learn best in families and education should be customized to the individual.  Others (Settlers) were there not because they had a categorical objection to institutionalized leaning environments, but because the flexibility in lifestyle and customized academics.   So of course, none of them ever thought an institutional setting could possibly be the ideal learning environment, so none of them blamed teachers and schools for failure or the inefficiencies and one-size-fits-all nature for all schools-including those doing a good, solid job providing a conveyor belt education. 

 

There was no reason to bad mouth ps for failing to the impossible.  It would be as irrational to us as ordering Mexican food (individualized, customized education) at a French restaurant (an institutionalized, standardized school) and then complaining about the flavor.  If you want Mexican food, get yourself to a Mexican restaurant.  If you want French food, go to a French restaurant.  If you don't have access to a Mexican restaurant, don't blame the French restaurant for that and stop bothering the people around you about it.

 

So, where I'm from, it was taboo to speak negatively of ps teachers.  If it happened (I witnessed it a handful of times in the early years) the philosophical homeschoolers would immediately talk about what a challenge it is for a 1: 30 teacher: student ratio and sympathize with the ps teachers because children are no longer divided by ability, and that teachers have no control over scheduling, curriculum, teaching techniques, testing standards, etc. Another tactic was to switch to talking about how glad we are to live in state with so many choices and how deeply saddened we are for parents in others states who don't have choices.  Usually the complainers picked up that no homeschoolers wanted to hear their complaints about ps and stopped talking about it.....then the refugees started flooding in in the last 10 years. 

 

Whoa! Refugees wanted their kids in ps and/or had their kids in ps and it didn't work out for a huge variety of different reasons.   Many of them have no problem griping about ps teachers and schools in homeschooling settings.  When philosophical homeschoolers point out all the inherent problems of institutional settings as a way to say, "Stuff a sock in it, lady." without actually saying, "Stuff a sock in it, lady." many of them don't pick up on it. They seem to be stuck in JAWM mode and are completely unaware that there are quite a few homeschoolers listening to them who were ps teachers who did everything they possibly could under the difficult circumstances of working for institutions and decided to homeschool their own kids. Awkward!

 

I decided to just stop the ps trash talking by saying in a nice voice, "You should know it's taboo to speak negatively about ps and ps teachers in the homeschooling community."

 

I avoid the religious ps trash talkers like the plague. If it never occurred to them that secular institutions cannot possibly be expected to have religious or religious leaning content or views, they're  waste of my time and energy. 

[albeto.]

I'm pretty sure you missed my point.  My point was that there are plenty of ps parents who do the same - as evidenced by the fact that they aren't getting this knowledge in ps.  We don't even touch it in ps.  (We do teach evolution - we just don't compare, etc.  Someone who doesn't know creationism or ID exist won't get that info in our public schools except from other students when they ask questions.)  There are plenty of kids who come in already knowing and/or believing. 

 

I didn't miss your point. It's a red herring and irrelevant to Proudpapa77's point. The point isn't whether or not kids attending public school are ever conditioned to believe that mythological stories can be relied upon as factual events. That's just embarrassing as an American, imo. The point is this happens by design in many home schools, and many home educators will refer to this reason as a primary reason for educating their children at home. It's not only embarrassing in light of the mountains of evidence available to anyone who cares to learn, but because it keeps children ignorant of, or teaches them to distrust the value of the scientific method in general. It's anti-science, and it's anti-education. Scientific literacy is as important as reading literacy, and to suppress literacy on purpose gives home education a bad name.

Edited December 9, 2015 by albeto.

[lllll]

nm

Edited December 14, 2015 by ^ 022

[idnib]

As far as things public school kids know that homeschooled kids don't, this is going to sound awkward, but I found that I had to teach my teens the meanings of swear words (and why we don't use them). When my older kids started encountering traditionally schooled kids as they got older, I found they'd come home and ask me what such-and-such a word meant because another teen used it. After my oldest was teased at swim team for not knowing what a word meant, I sat her down and we had a little life lesson. It was pretty uncomfortable for both of us, but I'd rather they hear this stuff from me and get my take on it than from other kids.

 

I'm going to re-think my plan of handing DS The Martian and a dictionary. DH said he learned all of his curse words from his father building a gingerbread house each Christmas. Maybe we should try that.