lauraw4321 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 My husband and I love our neighborhood. However, our house is trying to kill us. Since we moved in (7 years ago), in all except one year, we have paid MORE in home repairs than we have in mortgage payments. There was the leak from a drainage water pipe that went undiscovered since the house was built (1992) until last year, causing ridiculous amounts of water damage. There was the collapsing foundation that required bolstering. There were the dangerous trees that were required to be cut down. There was the crawl space full of mold that required remediation. There was the wall to wall bathroom carpeting in the MASTER BATHROOM that we felt compelled to replace. After all that, we recently discovered another problem that will require (at a minimum) around $7K in repairs (assuming we do a lot of the work ourselves - the original quote was for $10K). I seriously don't know what to do. I worked off and on, but now that I haven't worked in 2 years, all of this has exhausted our savings. We don't have the money. I feel like I need to go back to work. I also feel like I need to prioritize our family. But I also don't see how we can get out from under this house (much less get back our investment in the house). So, anyone have any wise words? Anyone know a quick and easy way to make...say... $10K? Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I am sorry. That really is yucky. I once was stuck with a house we couldn't get the money back from. We ended up selling at a 30k loss and we got a tax deduction that made up for some of our loss, but not all. But we had to move because day to day living was miserable because of people we couldn't get away from in the neighborhood. If you like the neighborhood I think you are probably going to have to deal with the house somehow and hope it appreciates enough for you to get some of your money back. Could you start an in home business to make some of these expenses tax write offs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 If you like the neighborhood I would stick it out. Did you get a good deal on purchase price? Maybe it isn't so far outside reasonable even if it does hurt as you are paying out those repairs. We bought a fixer 3 years ago. Although I am really sick of things not being done, we are still in an excellent position as we keep improving and still have no mortgage. If we had to sell today we would make money. And if we get it fixed like we want we can make a lot of money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauraw4321 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 We're basically *slightly* ahead money-wise in terms of potential sale price vs. mortgage. But we wouldn't get back any we've invested. We thought we were getting a deal. We weren't. Market continued downward and has just started to go back. We were definitely under water for awhile, but I think we're ahead. I just don't know which repairs we can keep putting off / saving up for. I'm a lawyer by training. I can't open a law firm out of my home. Just not possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 We're basically *slightly* ahead money-wise in terms of potential sale price vs. mortgage. But we wouldn't get back any we've invested. We thought we were getting a deal. We weren't. Market continued downward and has just started to go back. We were definitely under water for awhile, but I think we're ahead. I just don't know which repairs we can keep putting off / saving up for. I'm a lawyer by training. I can't open a law firm out of my home. Just not possible. If you are an attorney I would find some work and pay off those repairs. You will feel better. And remember location is everything in real estate so you still have that going for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialClassical Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Could you do any work reviewing contracts or other legal documents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 What type of law? If you do contracts now is a good time to advertise to med students graduating from residency in July who will have their first contracts to review. Basically, you're checking to make sure that the non-compete is not totally unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 We have made similar repairs to our home in the eight years we have lived here, plus some. We refinanced this summer to afford a new well and roof. Even adding these expenses on to our loan we are still paying less because of the better interest rate we received. Not sure where you live, but check with Rural Development (USDA) or Urban Development (HUD) to see if you qualify for any programs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 You can't sell without disclosing problems. You like the neighborhood. You need to remember these things. It is highly unlikely moving will help. Moving could make things worse financially. It's an awful situation. I would be researching possible tax write offs you can do with the house. How's your professional network? Can you do occassional contract/overflow work for other attorneys? Unless you plan never to work as an attorney again, I would advise keeping the professional network current and doing a little contract work even if you didn't need the cash right away. I found out staying away from my field too long made it impossible to reenter. For extra money (unrelated to two different professional careers I had) I work nights and weekends. So, dh and I work opposite schedules and we have no childcare issues. Yes, this schedule cuts into family time with the whole family, but we do have some family time and the kids spend time with both parents. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauraw4321 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 I like how I say "I can't open a law firm" and then get suggestions to start practicing law. To practice would cost me an absolute minimum of $2,500. (License fee, Continuing Legal Education fees, malpractice insurance, corporate formation (to protect myself from liability)), and that doesn't include childcare or rent or advertising. I have no place to meet with clients. So, I'd have to commit to working enough to making $2,500 to even break even. (Oh, and I have started my own firm before and the stress of it seriously damaged my health. So I do know what I'm talking about.) The legal market where I live is overly-saturated with lawyers and short on work. If I lived in Atlanta or New York or Chicago, I probably could get short-term document review work, but that doesn't happen here. Also, I live in a non-disclosure state. Some things would be obvious, but others wouldn't. I think I'll drive to a neighboring state and play the lottery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I like how I say "I can't open a law firm" and then get suggestions to start practicing law. To practice would cost me an absolute minimum of $2,500. (License fee, Continuing Legal Education fees, malpractice insurance, corporate formation (to protect myself from liability)), and that doesn't include childcare or rent or advertising. I have no place to meet with clients. So, I'd have to commit to working enough to making $2,500 to even break even. (Oh, and I have started my own firm before and the stress of it seriously damaged my health. So I do know what I'm talking about.) The legal market where I live is overly-saturated with lawyers and short on work. If I lived in Atlanta or New York or Chicago, I probably could get short-term document review work, but that doesn't happen here. Also, I live in a non-disclosure state. Some things would be obvious, but others wouldn't. I think I'll drive to a neighboring state and play the lottery. You can't practice law without opening your own law firm? Odd. Why can't you work for another lawyer? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauraw4321 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 I could be employed full-time as a lawyer for another firm/lawyer. I could open my own firm part time. Those are the two options. Full time lawyer and home schooling do not mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I could be employed full-time as a lawyer for another firm/lawyer. I could open my own firm part time. Those are the two options. Full time lawyer and home schooling do not mix. No firm will hire you part time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I like how I say "I can't open a law firm" and then get suggestions to start practicing law. To practice would cost me an absolute minimum of $2,500. (License fee, Continuing Legal Education fees, malpractice insurance, corporate formation (to protect myself from liability)), and that doesn't include childcare or rent or advertising. I have no place to meet with clients. So, I'd have to commit to working enough to making $2,500 to even break even. (Oh, and I have started my own firm before and the stress of it seriously damaged my health. So I do know what I'm talking about.) The legal market where I live is overly-saturated with lawyers and short on work. If I lived in Atlanta or New York or Chicago, I probably could get short-term document review work, but that doesn't happen here. Also, I live in a non-disclosure state. Some things would be obvious, but others wouldn't. I think I'll drive to a neighboring state and play the lottery. Play the lottery. :) What would you prefer to do? Sell and move? I'd probably hire a contractor and get a clear idea about what's needed. Then figure out where to go from there. FWIW, I don't think anyone was trying to offend by offering ideas on how to come up with extra funds. Creative problem solving. It's possible that their ideas could spark a new idea, from you. If they didn't, or don't work for you - that's fine. I don't live in a non-disclosure state, so I can't quite relate to the idea of selling without disclosing work that needs to be done on the house. That feels unethical. Legal, yes, but ... Yuck. So that perspective colors my thoughts about fixing the house and/or selling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I didn't say to open a firm. I suggested doing contract work for someone who already has a firm or solo practice. I was not aware you had not kept up your license. Dh has always insisted I keep mine, so I make suggestions from my perspective. If you work for someone else you may not need insurance--depends on how you do it. That said I am not practicing law. I am working nights and weekends when dh can take care of our youngest who has disabilities. For me this is not temporary. Ds will need constant supervision and med issues killed our retirement. But dh and make it work for us and the family. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauraw4321 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 My plan in terms of disclosure is to disclose everything to our realtor and let him/her decide how to handle that. I have maintained my license. I have a special license that keeps me in good standing but doesn't require me to take CLEs and doesn't enable me to practice law. To start practicing, I would have to just pay more and then start working on CLEs. My state requires 12 hours every year, and the cost is around $100/hour for CLE. Part-time work just doesn't exist in the legal field in my area. And as I stated, there isn't a need for temporary / contract work. You can't be covered by someone's malpractice insurance unless you are an employee or partner. Plus I've come in and out of the legal field here so often that I'm pretty sure I've destroyed my professional career as a lawyer. Also, my husband does not want me to work... so there's that. Not that he's come up with a suggestions of how to solve this. And I realize that I came to the internet asking for advice, and then snapped at that advice. It's just so frustrating and I wish I could come up with a good solution, but so far I haven't been able to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm sorry there's no quick answer. It's frustrating. If you and your dh agree that not working is a priority, then you have find a bare bones budget that you can live with. Finding that budget is painful. For me the process was very depressing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Is the new $7K repair something that must be done immediately? Can you postpone and save? Do you get a tax return? Use a zero interest credit card offer and pay off asap? I'm sorry. It stinks. I hope you find a solution. If you sell, the buyers would have the opportunity for a home inspection, yes? They'd have the opportunity to find any flaws. Their realtor would advise them. And - I get snappy when stressed. It's understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I totally understand. Home Ownership ruined us. In the end we walked away square minus about $1000 other than the work and money we put in it for 6 years. The new owners are lucky to have a fixed house, I guess, though I'm angry at that whole process. We want to buy again now that we're renting. Somehow it is worth it. I wish I had advice for the job issues. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Would you be able to sell and buy a smaller house (such as with all 3 girls sharing a room, if they're not currently) or an apartment for a few years? Then you might be able to roughly break even. Make sure you include moving costs, though. Does your DH have to potential to earn more money the next decade or so? If so, it might be worth staying, and using a HELOC (home equity line of credit) to finance repairs. I know of a lawyer who goes to people's houses to help them with wills and estate planning, so he doesn't need an office, but IDK how that works with insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TianXiaXueXiao Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I don't think going back to work is the answer. In your shoes, I would save money, study diy manuals and videos, look for deals on materials and do this project with the kids (assuming they are older than 5 or 6) and call it "shop" class. I would put other studies besides Math and English on hold until the shop project was done. I absolutely relish the memories of building and repairing the house alongside my parents as a kid and I learned a lot! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 BTW if you eventually work as an attorney, MCLE EZ has cle credits for many states at rates significantly less than $100/hour. Once a year they usually have an 8 credit package for $69. There are sources to get the credits done cheaply, when you are ready. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauraw4321 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 There's just now way I could do it myself. It involves tearing out and putting back the kitchen floor. With a 1 year old around? I can't be without my kitchen for weeks and I've laid tile before and it was horrible-looking when we finished. We can do the demo ourselves, maybe. That's how we got the price down from $10k. When we bought we were DINKs. Thought we'd be that way for awhile. Didn't work out that way. Of course we could delay, but it could result in more repairs so I don't see how to do that. DH could possibly get assignments across the country that would make someone money. But he doesn't want to. One thing this post is making clear to me is that DH and I are not on the same page and that is dramatically increasing my stress about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Now might be the time to get some seasonal work for the holiday season. Seriously. Just work for two months and at least put a dent in the bills. My old boss used to work at jewelry stores during Nov/Dec to supplement her income. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauraw4321 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Thanks, DianeP. My state only allows half of the hours to be online, but that will help the cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauraw4321 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Garga- I proposed that to DH. He said no way. Wouldn't be worth it. Yup. This is really clarifying things for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroe1 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 1. Barter some of the work. Try trading some babysitting time or house cleaning or whatever else you could do that doesn't require a license. We do that sometimes at our house. Heck, we have even done some three way trades. Doing that with contractors can be tricky and best done with people you know. 2. Sell stuff. If it is between a house that falls down or furniture, maybe sell the furniture. Hopefully hubby has a motorcycle stuffed in the garage, a family heirloom, or something else. 3. Make stuff to sell. 4. Do paralegals need licenses in your state? I know several lawyers who work as paralegals part-time after retirement. 5. Banks like lawyers. Perhaps you could start as a teller and work into mortgages or some such. But, really, I would fix this one issue and put the house on the market. With all those repairs you have made, it sounds like this house really is a money pit. And at the age it is, remodeling surely needs to be done soon as well as roof problems are just around the corner. How does anyone really make money on real estate unless he pays cash and then resells at a higher price? The cost of interest payments on housing loans, even considering tax help, is rarely computed into someone's mind when he tells his friends if he made money on a house or not. I have sold a house or two at a price higher than I originally paid, but I never made money on them. The costs of home ownership including interest, property taxes, maintenance, and repairs are far greater than whatever profits are made on the actual sell. Then the government even says I have to pay taxes on my "profit". Say whaaaat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKWAcademy Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Chalk up the things you've already done as sunk costs. No way around that. I'm in a situation where we hate the area and the house but due to location and lousy market here, we can't get out. We remodeled a few years ago to make it marginally livable, but now we've just sunk even more into this house. My advice is to stop while you're ahead. Make whatever repairs necessary to sell the place and get out. And I get that you can't practice in your home. I'm an accountant. My people don't understand why I can't just hang out my shingle and earn some money. Start up in fees and insurance and software are high and who will educate/watch my kids? I get it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Garga- I proposed that to DH. He said no way. Wouldn't be worth it. Yup. This is really clarifying things for me. Oops. Sorry. I think I remember you saying upthread that your dh didn't want you working. I guess if you can't work to earn money then the choices are to stay and hope the problems are all fixed...or move and hope the new house doesn't have problems. After watching a lot of tv shows about people buying and renovating houses, I think I'd go for a brand new house if I ever had to buy again. And I hate new houses. :( But it's scary when the repair costs start adding up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKWAcademy Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 After watching a lot of tv shows about people buying and renovating houses, I think I'd go for a brand new house if I ever had to buy again. And I hate new houses. :( But it's scary when the repair costs start adding up. YES! I've poured so much money into various used houses! Not to mention the HOURS I've spent removing wallpaper (fortunately that was the one problem our current house didn't have). Our house may be fixed up now but it's roots are still 1977. Of course, a lot of rooms, all the floors, the roof, the AC, the appliances, the bathrooms.... are all "new". If we ever unload our house, we're building brand new. Supposedly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Well, I think you need to be careful buying new housing too unless you're personally overseeing the whole project and individually hiring contractors. I've seen some disasters in new planned neighborhoods and major work done on houses less than 10 years old. My brother lives in a 10 year old house and is going through a divorce. The house is not in good enough shape right now to just sell outright so he's going to need to stay in the house for a while. He really can't comfortably afford to stay there but they have too much debt to get the house in good enough shape to resell. Houses in general are just money pits. I live in a 100 year old house and happily, not much NEEDED to be done when we moved in. We did pay quite a bit for a highly recommended inspector before closing. We've slowly improved it over the 12 years we've been here. We were in a "new" house before this though, and it was very shabbily made. At least the bones of our 100 year old house are good. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 In addition to other advice, sometimes I take myself through the mental exercise / thought experiment of "living like a student." I'd ask myself if "21yo me" would have considered this repair "nescessary" -- and, to what standard would "she" have needed things to be changed in order to carry on having a normal life. 21yo me happily lived in ugly places, as long as they were functional and safe. She didn't keep appropriate-ideal maintenence issue up to date. She wore undies with small holes in them and let her hair be scraggly. Some things just mattered less back then, so thinking things through from that perspective helps me assess between problems (or parts of problems) that are actual functional/safety/shelter needs and other things that are legitimate and reasonable "needs" now, but wouldn't have phased me very much to live at a lower standard back then. I don't know if that applies to your current 7K problem or not -- so it's just a suggestion for a thought experiment, not a solution. It's a suggestion to think about quick-and-dirty, temporary, minimal, and shabby solutions that could do the trick: instead of getting stuck thinking (as most normal people do) 'middle class standards or bust'. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I like how I say "I can't open a law firm" and then get suggestions to start practicing law. To practice would cost me an absolute minimum of $2,500. (License fee, Continuing Legal Education fees, malpractice insurance, corporate formation (to protect myself from liability)), and that doesn't include childcare or rent or advertising. I have no place to meet with clients. So, I'd have to commit to working enough to making $2,500 to even break even. (Oh, and I have started my own firm before and the stress of it seriously damaged my health. So I do know what I'm talking about.) The legal market where I live is overly-saturated with lawyers and short on work. If I lived in Atlanta or New York or Chicago, I probably could get short-term document review work, but that doesn't happen here. Also, I live in a non-disclosure state. Some things would be obvious, but others wouldn't. I think I'll drive to a neighboring state and play the lottery. Even in Atlanta, law jobs don't fall from the sky. The review contracts at home in one's leisure time for large wads of cash is a unicorn. I hate house stuff. We need a roof, new windows, new driveway... It. Never. Ends. No good advice, just commiseration. :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 My plan in terms of disclosure is to disclose everything to our realtor and let him/her decide how to handle that. I have maintained my license. I have a special license that keeps me in good standing but doesn't require me to take CLEs and doesn't enable me to practice law. To start practicing, I would have to just pay more and then start working on CLEs. My state requires 12 hours every year, and the cost is around $100/hour for CLE. Part-time work just doesn't exist in the legal field in my area. And as I stated, there isn't a need for temporary / contract work. You can't be covered by someone's malpractice insurance unless you are an employee or partner. Plus I've come in and out of the legal field here so often that I'm pretty sure I've destroyed my professional career as a lawyer. Also, my husband does not want me to work... so there's that. Not that he's come up with a suggestions of how to solve this. And I realize that I came to the internet asking for advice, and then snapped at that advice. It's just so frustrating and I wish I could come up with a good solution, but so far I haven't been able to. I know how frustrating it is. Especially to not be on the same page as your husband. Some days I don't think I can stand another day of this fixer house nonsense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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