Having trouble dealing w/this... WWY Do?

[LisaKinVA]

My older brother's family came for a visit. We have some divergent philosophical positions (he'd say religious... but theologically, we line up pretty well -- it's in the definition of say, "modesty" where we may diverge).

 

Anyhow, I'm pretty upset (okay, ANGRY), about this. It's not a huge thing, really, but I'm tired of them coming to MY house and telling my 6.5yo daughter to "go put shorts on" under her SKORT (built-in-shorts), and telling her if she doesn't, she can't play with her cousins.

 

For the record, they are "dresses only" (for the most part), and LONG dresses (to the ankles) at that. We don't go that far. DD prefers dresses, and I accomodate her when I can, as well as purchase inexpensive bike shorts or knit shorts she can wear under her play dresses.

 

Now, they have never said anything to me or dh, just dd. And dd, doesn't question or argue, she just goes back to her room and puts on a pair of shorts.

 

This upsets me, I guess, because I feel it's a back-handed slap at me and dh for "not dressing our daughter appropriately."

 

But, what I want to say is, something akin to, "While you are visiting OUR house, my children are free to wear the clothing we have provided for them -- without interference or fear of retribution from YOU. If you cannot visit without making my dd feel badly about the clothing dh and I provide, please don't visit."

 

But, for the most part, we enjoy having them -- so that last part is pretty unenforceable.

 

I guess I just feel this behavior is rude... I know we need to deal with it somehow. But right now...:cursing:

[Harriet Vane]

But, what I want to say is, something akin to, "While you are visiting OUR house, my children are free to wear the clothing we have provided for them -- without interference or fear of retribution from YOU. If you cannot visit without making my dd feel badly about the clothing dh and I provide, please don't visit."

 

 

 

I think your words are good. The only thing I would add is, "You don't have to agree with my parenting, but you do need to respect the rules that I have for my children."

 

You might consider a letter. Keep it brief, and gush about how much you enjoy seeing them.

[Rosy]

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that...but I also don't think there's anything wrong with buying her a long skirt to wear when her cousins come over. I think I would choose the latter--if the relationship is otherwise good, I would probably seek to avoid stumbling them and do that, and explain to my DD that different people have different convictions, and that I'm not ashamed of how we dress, but we want to live at peace with them and not offend them when we can help it.

[JFSinIL]

I agree - let them know you enjoy having them over BUT they are not to dictate to your kid what she may or may not wear in order to play with the cousins. You are not insisting their kids wear shorter dresses to play with YOUR kid, are you?;)

 

I mean - what kind of play do they think is going to go on????;)

[Staci in MO]

I'm sure one of the wise, clever people here can come up with something better, but here are my initial thoughts. Not only is this rude, I would argue that it's unbiblical. Your dh is the head of your household, so any problems with your dds clothing needs to be addressed to her parents, not to your dd. I would tell them this:

 

1. Any remarks about your child's clothing need to be directed to her parents, not her.

 

2. Parents set the dress code for their children.

 

Now, if you really enjoy having them, and you think it would help to preserve the relationship, I could see some value in encouraging you dd to wear more modest clothing while they were over. But I would only do this if you could do it without going to a lot of trouble yourself AND if you could do it in a way that wouldn't confuse your dd or make her feel bad.

 

My bil doesn't eat pork. While my dh and I personally think he's misinterpreting Scripture as his basis for doing this, we still don't grill up pork chops when he's coming over for dinner. :) BUT, even though he disagrees vehemently with Calvinism, I don't take my books off the shelves for fear of offending him. My house, my books.

 

I realize clothing and modesty are a lot more complicated (and my dc don't notice that I'm always cooking chicken when bil comes over), but that's how I handle it.

[Aggie]

You have every right to be livid, imo. They've got quite the nerve coming to YOUR home and parenting your dc. My sis lives quite close and we've had some *boundary* issues, too.

 

What you thought about telling them is quite appropriate. Just tell them before they plan their next visit.

 

The alternative would be dressing your dd the way your brother's family dresses the entire time they are visiting. To keep peace.

 

Aggie

 

ps...I would not write it in a letter, though. :) Too much can be misconstrued.

[JennifersLost]

What would I do, honestly?

 

I'd tell them that until they start dressing their children EXACTLY the same way you dress yours they are NOT allowed to come to your house anymore.

 

Then maybe they'll get a clue as to how ignorant, mean, pushy, and ridiculous they're acting.

 

Why is it that whoever comes up with the strictest interpretation of a rule "wins"? How come the rest of us give in to that? It's a bullying tactic, plain and simple and we've become a nation of panderers to whoever gets on their soapbox and yells the loudest.

 

What's more important - you're daughter's self-worth or seeing your relatives?

 

What's more important - being able to decide what your own children wear or seeing your relatives?

 

You know in your heart what's right. And it doesn't include allowing your children to watch while others bully you around!

[Jennifer in NH]

I feel angry for here! I think that making your rules clear before hand is the key! All the advice you have received has been great!

Jenny

[Zelda]

I got a little hot under the collar just reading that. I pretty much echo other sentiments here. Your house, your rules and talk to you, not your daughter.

 

:grouphug:

[beansprouts]

Why is it that whoever comes up with the strictest interpretation of a rule "wins"? How come the rest of us give in to that? It's a bullying tactic, plain and simple and we've become a nation of panderers to whoever gets on their soapbox and yells the loudest.

 

What's more important - you're daughter's self-worth or seeing your relatives?

 

What's more important - being able to decide what your own children wear or seeing your relatives?

 

You know in your heart what's right. And it doesn't include allowing your children to watch while others bully you around!

 

I love this post!!

 

To insert a Christian perspective:

 

What is more important - Wearing the "right" clothing, or being loving and gracious to others?

[Susan in KY]

Off the top of my head, I would say this isn't worth throwing away a relationship with my brother. I would have a discussion about it with dd and buy her a long skirt to wear with her cousins. If she wants to wear it, fine. If she doesn't want to wear it, fine. In that case, intervene and *gently* say to your brother, "I know this bothers you a little, but we feel comfortable with her level of modesty and don't see the need to make this into a mountain. We love you guys--let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that."

 

If he decides to up the ante, that's unfortunate. In my opinion, however, you can be gracious and stand your ground all at once. I can't imagine cutting off a relationship with my extended family over such an issue. I don't need to be right that much. He's slipped into legalism, but well-placed "speaking the truth in love" can go a long way to establishing freedom.

 

Susan

[myfunnybunch]

If you know that your brother's family will be visiting and your dd has clothing that they consider to be more appropriate, you may want to simply let your dd know that her cousins are coming, and will she please wear something with which they'll be comfortable. Shorts under a dress or a wearing longer skirt seem reasonable accomodations for guests, given that you've already got the clothing and it will make your guests feel more comfortable.

 

Not only that, but it will remove the opportunity for your brother to dictate to your child what she can and cannot wear.

 

My children know that when their cousins visit, they cannot play Pokemon, so they put them away. I know it's not as personal an issue as dress, and my sister and I have simply come to the "to each his own" conclusion when it comes to the issue of Pokemon, but if the goal is to enjoy our guests while they visit, why not minimize potential conflicts from the start?

 

However....I would nip this right in the bud.

Now, they have never said anything to me or dh, just dd.

 

Not only is it wildly rude, your brother is behaving as though he's got authority over your child in your home. Your brother and SIL need to know just how inappropriate you find this behavior. I'd address this in person and very directly: If he's got an issue with your child's clothing then, no matter how uncomfortable, he must approach you. Period.

 

A simple and polite, "I'm not quite comfortable with what dd has on today. Would you mind asking her to put on a pair of shorts?" would suffice.

 

:grouphug:

 

Cat

[Remudamom]

I'd be offended too. They are only allowed to ruin their children. You get to ruin your own. You should say exactly what you said you wanted to say.

 

If one of my siblings pulled that on my dd, they'd be walking around with their hand on their head and a knot under it. Good grief.

[sweetbasil]

This would have made me angry. They are undermining your authority.

 

I would have DH talk to your brother and set boundaries. It also helps present a unified front to them, i.e. "This is what we have prayerfully chosen for our family". (And on a separate note, where's the passage where Jesus specifies an acceptable skirt length and/or wearing of shorts?)

 

I am willing to make concessions for others' issues as far as it is reasonable, but I absolutely wouldn't tolerate the undermining.

 

"In Essentials, Unity; in Non-essentials, Liberty; in All Things, Charity,"

[st_claire]

I'd be very angry also. You decide what's ok for your kid to wear, not them. If they don't like it, they don't have to visit. I hate when people try and push shame onto kids that aren't theirs. They have no right at all.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I completely agree that it's an issue of their going behind your back straight to a 6 yo. ??? That speaks volumes to me.

 

We were previously dresses only. I never, ever, ever thought to dictate what ANYONE else would wear, least of all in their own house. I did, and do, establish boundaries for my children and that includes distancing our family from some others. However, that has never been because of their standards, but rather their blatant lack of respect and sometimes ridicule for ours (whether dresses, shorts, music, etc...)

 

I would discuss it with them, not as an issue of modesty, but authority. Anyone who sent behind my back with my children in such a way would not be left alone with them, even in another room, again, especially when my children were so young.

 

I definitely want my children to learn deference, but this does not seem to apply to this situation at least as a primary issue.

[Carol in Cal.]

...I would act like I didn't think that I understood correctly. I would probably say something like, "My DD thinks that you are telling her that her clothing is inappropriate. I'm sure that you didn't intend to convey that message, but if you have a difference or difficulty with my parenting, I hope and expect that you will talk with me about it rather than with her. After all, she is only 6. I don't want her to feel attacked over something that is not of her own choosing." And I would say this pretty warmly, not argumentatively.

 

That way he has a way out--if he says that she misunderstood, then you let it go this time and watch for a recurrence. If he defends himself, then you take it further to the authority issue. Don't be drawn into a debate about conflicting standards if he is one of those people who will get mean about it. As long as it doesn't recur, you have accomplished your goal, and that is what really counts, right?

[OnTheBrink]

It would be one thing if your brother had pulled you aside, said that the short skorts make them uncomfortable and had politely asked if there was anything else your dd could wear. You'd still have the right to say "my house, my clothing standards" but I bet, for the sake of grace and peace, you'd be more willing to accommodate their wishes and comfort level.

 

However, for him to dictate to your daughter what she must wear in order to play with her cousins, behind your back, is rude and "insisting on it's own way" which is not what love does.

 

I'd speak to him privately, tell him how you feel about his undermining your authority and his disrespect of your and your dh's home. If he can not respond with any grace or understanding, or at least concede that his approach was over the line, then you might want to reconsider the reality of the relationship.

[Danestress]

I would tell my daughter and my brother that I think the way she dresses is fine. I would tell them both that I think he's being legalistic in a way that seems harsh to me, and that nothing in the bible really dictates his position.

 

And I would ask my daughter if she really minds dressing in a way that makes him happy while he is here. As long as he understands and she understands that she is dressing that way to please a relative rather than to please God (because God wasn't, in your view, displeased with the way she dressed already) then I would encourage her to just put on the shorts to keep the peace.

 

If she ever really has a problem with this, I would respect her decision not to do so. But at this point, she doesn't seem have a problem with it. As long as my DB understood I was humoring him - not agreeing with him - I would just do it.

 

Life is very short. People die. People experience grief and loss. You need all the love you can get in this life from your family members. I personally wouldn't let something like this drive a wedge between me and a brother. When your parents are old and frail, you will be happy you pleased them by cultivating love with your brother.

[ticklbee]

...I would act like I didn't think that I understood correctly. I would probably say something like, "My DD thinks that you are telling her that her clothing is inappropriate. I'm sure that you didn't intend to convey that message, but if you have a difference or difficulty with my parenting, I hope and expect that you will talk with me about it rather than with her. After all, she is only 6. I don't want her to feel attacked over something that is not of her own choosing." And I would say this pretty warmly, not argumentatively.

 

That way he has a way out--if he says that she misunderstood, then you let it go this time and watch for a recurrence. If he defends himself, then you take it further to the authority issue. Don't be drawn into a debate about conflicting standards if he is one of those people who will get mean about it. As long as it doesn't recur, you have accomplished your goal, and that is what really counts, right?

 

I think this advice is right on the money...it was similar to what I was going to say but Carol said it waaay better then I could have!

[MicheleB]

So, if you do have your dd wear dresses only when they're at your house, what will your brother require next?

 

What does he expect of you when they're visiting?

 

I agree with many of the others, it's more about undermining your dh's position as head of HIS household. Your brother, of course, is *not* head of your household.

 

I'm flabbergasted....

[pianoplayer]

Both your brother and your daughter need to understand that the fundamental issue is not that of modesty, but rather of authority. Had such a situation occurred in our home, dh would have told the culprit kindly, calmly, and firmly that he could not undermine the authority of the parents in the home and that any concerns should be addressed to dh privately. If the culprit chose not to abide by that, he would, regretfully, not be welcome in our home.

 

I'm so sorry for this painful situation! Family problems can be so hard to deal with. Don't be ugly, but definitely stand your ground here, because the issues at stake are vital.:grouphug:

[Mom to Aly]

My first reaction was how dare they, and say what you thought, but not the you can leave part--I wouldn't go quite that far--just try to calm down a bit and be more diplomatic. Someone said buy a long skirt for her to wear, and I thought "No way!". But...

 

I realized, just today, we saw some friends whose daughter recently told her her dress, which came a few inches past her knees, was too short on her--I was stunned--but I know they are quite conservative. When my daughter put on a skirt this morning that reached her knees I told her to take it off, we were seeing Mrs. X, and she looked at me, and said, "Yes, but you have told me we don't dress for other people.". Of course I have, and I believe that, but I still hesitated, then told her, of course, we don't, wear what you like. But I still felt a little uncomfortable.

 

So--my advice is, do what you feel most comfortable with. If you think it is worth it, have her dress differently in front of your brother (aren't I a help?). But I would never, ever, let anyone tell my daughter how to dress, nor dare to make her feel uncomfortable about that. Only a parent has the right to humiliate their child ;).

[CLHCO]

I like all of the posts so far, even the feisty ones.

 

What I think would be most appropriate, from a Christian perspective, would be to, #1 have your husband (if possible, due to their likely beliefs on this) mention to him that any concerns in this area should be addressed to the parent, not to the daughter; #2 ask him what his intent is. It could be that he is being holier-than-thou and trying to shove in the face that your children are not as appropriately religious, or it could be a concern that seeing their cousins with clothing on that he does not allow for his children could cause his children to stumble by wanting to do the same. This could cause friction for him where he is trying to establish what is best for his family. If it's the former, his problem - get over it. If it's the latter, I'd consider getting some modest clothing for her out of respect for her cousins when they come to visit.

 

I have had my daughters dress more modestly, sometimes even in skirts, in certain areas. I sometimes wonder if this seems a bit like I'm not being honest or putting on a false face around them, or if it is being respectful. I'll err on the side of respectful though.

[GSMP]

I haven't read through all of the posts and you've probably gotten enough advice but......

 

The only issue I would address is them going to your child instead of coming to you. That is not acceptable to me.

 

We are a dress/skirt/culotte group here. My nieces who come to visit are not.....and when I say not.....I am talking the teen ager wears the spaghetti strap tops with her bra and boobs hanging out. She is two months older than my daughter who will be 15 in November.

 

I pulled my sister aside and asked her if it was okay if I talked to my niece. I did. I didn't think it was appropriate for her to walk around exposing herself to her cousins and uncle.

 

By the same token.....we do not try to cram our dressing standard down anyones throat.

 

I would tell your brother or better yet write him a letter explaining how this makes you feel.

 

What I have told my nieces is that what we do is OUR conviction. Not everyone who is a Christian has the same dress code. If you don't feel that strongly about it and yet agree down the line on everything else than quite frankly this should be a minor issue. He really has no right trying to enforce his conviction on your family in your house.

 

I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist.....there are families in my church who only wear dresses to church. Out side of church you would see them in jeans and shorts. I gave my daughter this option and she has made up her own mind on what she believes.

 

I'm sorry. I know you love your brother and it may only bother you when he and his family visit but if it is going to cause enmity, you should address it with him. Pray about it before you send your letter or call. If he gets upset or insulted then it is on him.

 

Quite frankly....the important part is the salvation issue. The rest as far as convictions and standards, God and the Holy Spirit will take care of......I have been known to tell people they are not supposed to try to do the job of the Holy Spirit.

 

I was just in your neck of the woods the other day....had to have a Carls's milkshake. Even though it doesn't like my tummy.

[kalanamak]

I haven't read through all of the posts and you've probably gotten enough advice but......

 

The only issue I would address is them going to your child instead of coming to you. That is not acceptable to me.

 

 

Ahhh, but it is so much easier to tower over a 6 year old. "Can't play with"! Does he go down the street and tell people they can't walk on the sidewalk with is kids if they aren't dressed right?

 

Your brother is also teaching his kids that their lifestyle trumps yours. That is a set up for hubris.

 

I'd have a very calm chat. Or a letter.

[LisaKinVA]

Thank you everyone... I'm a bit calmer about everything now. I don't believe I would have gone to the "you can leave" part, but you know how it feels to be in that moment.

 

My older brother and I have our own unresolved issues going back to childhood -- which I won't go into, it would take too long. So it is very hard for me to take what he says/does lightly. It takes all of my presence of mind to simply remain calm when I feel threatened, slighted or stepped upon (whether directly or indirectly).

 

My SIL, and her daughters, make all of their clothes. I don't sew anything other than baby blankets -- and haven't made one of those in about 8 years. Sewing isn't my forte -- but I can cook and bake like a pro -- even for large groups :D.

 

I'm not sure I could dress dd according to their standards, because I feel it would be letting him "win" -- on an issue in which he should have no say. Maybe that's my issue.

 

I guess I feel that I work so hard not to be critical of them and the choices they have made for their family. Yes, I've spoken to our mom/dad about some of my concerns, and I even mentioned them to Brother & SIL. But, in the end, they are responsible for their family and I am not.

 

I'm tired of always feeling like we have to defend ourselves, and the choices we've made for our family.

 

DD's clothes are modest, and age-appropriate. It takes work to purchase clothes on a budget in the 7 and up sizes that aren't hip-huggers (providing her with a plumbers crack), or skin tight, or hooker-in-training types. If I could, I'd buy her Lands' End Dresses year round... but our budget would allow her a total of 5 dresses a year at those prices:tongue_smilie: Not including the shorts or tights to go with them. I occassionally find something appropriate at the Goodwill, but most of the dresses there are more of the party variety, IYKWIM. It's just sooo frustrating.

 

DH is going to have a talk with my brother (because it's an authority issue). I'm going to stay out of it -- because I'm sure I won't handle it appropriately. I've hurt my brother as much as he's hurt me throughout the years -- and I'm trying to heal, forgive and forget. Putting myself in a situation that would dredge up old hurts and emotions won't help either of us deal with the past.

 

Thanks!