Home'scool Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 A few weeks back I posted about perhaps moving in with my sister after my divorce is finalized. She has the perfect in-law set up for me. But there may be a problem. This is the situation: About 10 years ago my mother and step-father paid to put on the in-law addition to my sister's house. They lived there 6 months out of the year and the other 6 months they lived in Florida. They never paid rent, just their share of the expenses. Where my sister lives is not zoned for a two family so there are no separate utilities, etc. but there is a separate entrance so you can stay completely private if you want. Their name is not on the deed or anything attached to the house. 2 years ago my mother passed away. Our relationship with my stepfather has been rocky at best. He spent all of my mothers' money while she was alive (she had a pretty sizable chunk of money) and they had to declare bankruptcy about 5 years ago. When my mother died he received a $50,000 life insurance policy that he is promptly spending on scams and get-rich-quick schemes. He probably receives little to nothing in social security because he always owned his own business and never claimed any salary. He also never saved anything. You cannot trust the man at all, everything is a con or a scheme or a lie. My sister has been taking care of him since my mother's death. He lost his license so she drives him to his appointments and to the food store, etc. She set up meals-on-wheels for him, etc. The problem is that he does not interact with her or her family at all unless he needs something. She will offer to have him over to watch tv, or for dinner or whatever and he always says no. He is literally living there like a stranger and my sister hates that because this is her home. My stepfather has one son. The son has not offered any help to my sister and never comes to see him unless she calls and insists that they come get him for Thanksgiving or something. So when I am ready to move my sister wants to call his son and say that she is done taking care of him and that he needs to take over. My step-father is not family, he has never acted like family, and she has been doing all the care of him. I am worried, though, that because my stepfather probably has no money left (again) that his son may freak at taking over the financial responsibility of his father. And either he or my stepfather may try to lay claim to the addition. Does he have a legal right to stay there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 So he's living in the space you plan to occupy? Yeah, that's a problem. She needs to talk to him and his son now. She needs to let them both know she has a paying tenant coming in and needs time to prep the space, and give a definite deadline. Eta - I think it might be best if she not say upfront who the paying tenant is, just that she needs the space vacated. Not sure of the legalities but if he doesn't have a lease that may be easier. Are homesteading laws still in effect? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftymama Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I would contact a lawyer. He may have rights just because he's been living there for two years - rent or no rent, family or not. I would be very cautious, especially if he is as you describe. If she's been supporting him for two years she may have obligated herself without realizing it. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 So he's living in the space you plan to occupy? Yeah, that's a problem. She needs to talk to him and his son now. She needs to let them both know she has a paying tenant coming in and needs time to prep the space, and give a definite deadline. Eta - I think it might be best if she not say upfront who the paying tenant is, just that she needs the space vacated. Not sure of the legalities but if he doesn't have a lease that may be easier. Are homesteading laws still in effect? agreed. It should be done in writing as well. In my area you must provide a written vacate order (or whatever it's called) or it is not valid and then they get another month. make sure you have someone witness that she's given him the letter. We had a friend who helped another friend by giving him a place to stay while he got on his feet. It became a nightmare to get him out because this guy knew the system and the rules... so he stayed an extra 3 months because of legalities. Our friend was so frustrated. Laws are generally in the renter's favor in most states. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Yep, get a lawyer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Blugh. This won't be happening until early next year but I will tell her to start preparing. We are hoping that the son will be decent and realize it is HIS father and HIS responsibility but that doesn't always work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Blugh. This won't be happening until early next year but I will tell her to start preparing. We are hoping that the son will be decent and realize it is HIS father and HIS responsibility but that doesn't always work If he hasn't been decent about it over the past two years, there's no reason to expect him to start now. I think by letting your stepfather stay so long, your sister has set the expectation that it's a permanent situation. Or at least, it could be interpreted that way. :grouphug: I hope you are able to get it worked out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Blugh. This won't be happening until early next year but I will tell her to start preparing. We are hoping that the son will be decent and realize it is HIS father and HIS responsibility but that doesn't always work This is so true. I started to share some recent experience along these lines but decided to skip the details. Based on my experience, she needs to start now. The son will probably need time to adjust his attitude and get the ball rolling. That may not happen unless she actually evicts him and the son has no choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I just looked back at your OP because I was curious about why he lost his license. But then, this jumped out at me: "About 10 years ago my mother and step-father paid to put on the in-law addition to my sister's house." For me, this detail was lost in the first reading. I think you're going to have a bigger problem than you think if you hope that he will vacate a building he paid for (even if it were done with his wife's money). He may demand repayment for the cost of this improvement. Not trying to sound mean here, but I'm actually kind of surprised that this is an after the fact question for you and your sister. Do you really think he doesn't see at least the added on part of the house as his territory? Seems like that would have been a big concern right off the bat. I find myself cringing at the thought of my mom passing on before her husband does, just so we won't have such a problem. Am I misunderstanding what you wrote about the cost of the addition being paid by your mom and stepdad? Because now I really do think your sister needs to begin by consulting a lawyer. Was that money deemed a gift or an investment in the property? Complicated. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Mousie Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Blugh. This won't be happening until early next year but I will tell her to start preparing. We are hoping that the son will be decent and realize it is HIS father and HIS responsibility but that doesn't always work I really think you need to consult with a lawyer ASAP. There is no reason (i.e., income from rent) to allow him to stay any longer than is absolutely necessary (or legally required). I don't think it matters that you don't think you'll be ready to move in until early next year - it can just be vacant for a couple months, can't it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 :iagree: Your sister needs a lawyer to navigate her way through this mess. Unfortunately this is not a simple as asking him to leave or his son taking over responsibility; my guess is that he has lived there for the past two years and plans to continue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Not trying to sound mean here, but I'm actually kind of surprised that this is an after the fact question for you and your sister. Do you really think he doesn't see at least the added on part of the house as his territory? Seems like that would have been a big concern right off the bat. I find myself cringing at the thought of my mom passing on before her husband does, just so we won't have such a problem. Am I misunderstanding what you wrote about the cost of the addition being paid by your mom and stepdad? Because now I really do think your sister needs to begin by consulting a lawyer. Was that money deemed a gift or an investment in the property? Complicated. When they added on the addition to my sister's house it was with their own money. And at the time my sister had two rules: she told my mother not to drink (she was a recovering alcoholic) and to not do anything that would cost her money. Well, my stepfather spent them into bankruptcy, to which my mother responded to by drinking. Priceless. My sister ended up shouldering the financial burden of the bills they could not pay, etc. All this probably doesn't affect the legal outcome, but it gives a little more background on why my sister is not too hesitant to remove him. I do plan on discussing with her how we should go about this. I am just hesitant to give the son too much notice, but do want to give him enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I would suggest she go ahead and start the removal process. If he is out before you are ready to move in, it doesn't sound like your sister will be out anything. (He isn't paying her anything at this point?) She definitely needs to consult a lawyer. I understand why she wants him out, but since he paid for the addition, I'm thinking she is on very shaky ground. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 When they added on the addition to my sister's house it was with their own money. And at the time my sister had two rules: she told my mother not to drink (she was a recovering alcoholic) and to not do anything that would cost her money. Well, my stepfather spent them into bankruptcy, to which my mother responded to by drinking. Priceless. My sister ended up shouldering the financial burden of the bills they could not pay, etc. All this probably doesn't affect the legal outcome, but it gives a little more background on why my sister is not too hesitant to remove him. I do plan on discussing with her how we should go about this. I am just hesitant to give the son too much notice, but do want to give him enough. I'm still confused who "they" and "their" are. The parents? Or your sister? Sounds like the parents, but then didn't follow through on the bills, so your sister had to absorb part of the cost. Still complicates things. I am guessing your stepfather will be shocked when asked to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 I'm still confused who "they" and "their" are. The parents? Or your sister? Sounds like the parents, but then didn't follow through on the bills, so your sister had to absorb part of the cost. Still complicates things. I am guessing your stepfather will be shocked when asked to leave. My mother and stepfather paid for the addition. Then, when my stepfather spent all their money and my mother drank my sister had to step in and pay their share of the bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 My mother and stepfather paid for the addition. Then, when my stepfather spent all their money and my mother drank my sister had to step in and pay their share of the bills. So mom & stepdad paid for the cost of the addition, but then sister had to begin paying their share of utility bills? Not trying to be picking at details, just trying to understand them. I still believe he will resist leaving and things could get really messy for your sister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I would assume that she will have to go through the the normal (painful, time-consuming) eviction process if he doesn't want to leave. She will need a lawyer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 She needs a lawyer. She will have to go through eviction process if he won't leave voluntarily, but he may have some defense based on the earlier payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I would have no moral issue with getting him out but I agree you need to consult an attorney. He will probably feel taken advantage of by your sister ( He will say, 'I paid for the addition but she is kicking me out. That is what I get for trusting her and not having the agreement in writing). And I wonder...what was the agreement? Did your mom and stepdad have the expectation of living there until they died? I doubt your sister would have EVER added them to her house deed just to get an addition to her house.....so really this is playing out like it should. He won't have a leg to stand on I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Adding another voice to the choir that a lawyer really is needed here. At minimum, she'll need to start formal eviction proceedings. But, the fact that he and his wife also paid for the addition could complicate matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 And I wonder...what was the agreement? Did your mom and stepdad have the expectation of living there until they died? I think that was the expectation. My sister was willing to even take care of them when they got older and more infirmed. But then all the bad happened. They really just did things without regard to how it would affect her life and home. Growing up with my mother being an alcoholic made my sister adamant that she did not want her children exposed to that. And she was clear to my mother about that. When things went bad they went really bad. And then add to that my stepfather's role in causing their bankruptcy and they way he is acting now. Things have gone way off track and it is time for his son, who hasn't had to lift a finger, to step in and do something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 .... it is time for his son, who hasn't had to lift a finger, to step in and do something. Personally, if the stepfather is of sound mind, I would leave the son out of it altogether, for a couple of reasons: 1. The son might have just as many reasons as your sister to not want to take care of him. Just because it's his father doesn't make it a foregone conclusion that this IS his responsibility. 2. It's not really your sister's business, or job, to figure out where he's going to live after he leaves her home. She shouldn't put it on her plate to worry about that. And it's the stepfather's business, both in the "mind your own business" way and in the "take care of your business" way to make his own arrangements. Your sister needs to start thinking like a landlord and not like a pissed off family member. Landlords don't worry about where the tenants will go when the sheriff evicts them. For them, it's just business. Your sister will save herself a lot of grief if she can just start handling this as a business transaction. 3. Legally, the son won't matter. Practically, who wants a 3rd party involved in the arguments? It just makes things louder, not clearer. If the son is going to be involved, let the stepfather handle contacting him. I would literally refuse to speak to him on the subject - he's not involved with her part of it (which is getting the stepfather out, not where he's going after). 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 ^^^ I agree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Lawyer. Yesterday. These things are incredibly complicated, and, yes, he will have some legal rights. If it is smooth and easy, it will take the amount of time you have planned before your move-in. If it is the slightest bit complex, it will take longer. Possibly far longer. And may involve a significant repayment of his contribution cost. Make a plan for what you will do for housing if this isn't worked out by the planned date. It is most likely that you will need it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Personally, if the stepfather is of sound mind, I would leave the son out of it altogether, for a couple of reasons: 1. The son might have just as many reasons as your sister to not want to take care of him. Just because it's his father doesn't make it a foregone conclusion that this IS his responsibility. 2. It's not really your sister's business, or job, to figure out where he's going to live after he leaves her home. She shouldn't put it on her plate to worry about that. And it's the stepfather's business, both in the "mind your own business" way and in the "take care of your business" way to make his own arrangements. Your sister needs to start thinking like a landlord and not like a pissed off family member. Landlords don't worry about where the tenants will go when the sheriff evicts them. For them, it's just business. Your sister will save herself a lot of grief if she can just start handling this as a business transaction. 3. Legally, the son won't matter. Practically, who wants a 3rd party involved in the arguments? It just makes things louder, not clearer. If the son is going to be involved, let the stepfather handle contacting him. I would literally refuse to speak to him on the subject - he's not involved with her part of it (which is getting the stepfather out, not where he's going after). Agree completely with this. Contact an attorney, get things started, and communicate with the stepfather, not his son. His son isn't a party to this, but does have an interest in keeping things as they are (it's apparently much more convenient for him this way, so adding him to the mix will only make things more volatile). It doesn't matter if it's time for the son to step up to the plate. If he had an interest in doing that, you'd know already. This could likely be a lengthy process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Just thinking "out loud" a bit, but I would think that the bankruptcy would also play into the legal ramifications of your sister's obligation or not. I suppose they didn't declare the portion of your sister's house an asset of theirs? This would be documented, and could help your sister. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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