What do you teach your kids about pot/alcohol?

[Wabi Sabi]

I am curious and have a question for those who mention not fully developed brains:

is there any data that compare the US, where there is a restrictive drinking age, with countries where wine is a normal part of the culture (France, for example) with respect to outcomes re brain function, alcoholism rates, etc?

If responsible drinking (not binging or getting drunk, but wine with meals) is detrimental to adolescents, I would expect there to be data showing the US to a clear advantage. I have not found such data and don't hear about French young adults being brain damaged by alcohol to a significant extent, which leads me to believe that the danger of moderate consumption is greatly exaggerated.

 

ETA: Just to clarify: I am not talking about teens who are specifically genetically predisposed to alcoholism and for whom it might be prudent to abstain. I am talking about normal 16 year olds having a glass of wine with dinner. Is there really evidence that this is actually harmful?

 

 

Modeling responsible drinking won't stop disease.

 

Alcoholism rates are higher in countries in which alcohol is casually given or offered to children and adolescents.

 

And you are reading "brain damage" into the posts, "we" are not talking about that.

Looking at the US vs most of western Europe on this interactive map by the WHO, the rate of alcoholism in much of Europe is roughly equal to the rate of alcohol use disorders in the US. Alcohol seems to be far less of a problem for Italy or Spain than the rest of Europe or North American, but a much greater problem in Norway and most of eastern Europe: 

 

http://gamapserver.who.int/gho/interactive_charts/substance_abuse/bod_alcohol_prevalence/atlas.html

[MBM]

I am curious and have a question for those who mention not fully developed brains:

is there any data that compare the US, where there is a restrictive drinking age, with countries where wine is a normal part of the culture (France, for example) with respect to outcomes re brain function, alcoholism rates, etc?

If responsible drinking (not binging or getting drunk, but wine with meals) is detrimental to adolescents, I would expect there to be data showing the US to a clear advantage. I have not found such data and don't hear about French young adults being brain damaged by alcohol to a significant extent, which leads me to believe that the danger of moderate consumption is greatly exaggerated.

 

ETA: Just to clarify: I am not talking about teens who are specifically genetically predisposed to alcoholism and for whom it might be prudent to abstain. I am talking about normal 16 year olds having a glass of wine with dinner. Is there really evidence that this is actually harmful?

 

I don't have any of his books to check, but I vaguely remember Laurence Steinberg mentioning something about the statistics here and in other countries. You might be able to access his textbook online. I think that's where I found some of the info.

 

Dan Siegel's book Brainstorm: The Power and Purpose of the Teenage Brain also discusses adolescence and addictions and why/how they occur as well as what can be done to help prevent problems.

 

ETA: Yes, Siegel talks about the neurological effects that both drinking and doing drugs have on an adolescent's brain on pages 264-269 of his book. It's a general overview but he touches upon what specifically has been discovered.

[Bluegoat]

I am curious and have a question for those who mention not fully developed brains:

is there any data that compare the US, where there is a restrictive drinking age, with countries where wine is a normal part of the culture (France, for example) with respect to outcomes re brain function, alcoholism rates, etc?

If responsible drinking (not binging or getting drunk, but wine with meals) is detrimental to adolescents, I would expect there to be data showing the US to a clear advantage. I have not found such data and don't hear about French young adults being brain damaged by alcohol to a significant extent, which leads me to believe that the danger of moderate consumption is greatly exaggerated.

 

ETA: Just to clarify: I am not talking about teens who are specifically genetically predisposed to alcoholism and for whom it might be prudent to abstain. I am talking about normal 16 year olds having a glass of wine with dinner. Is there really evidence that this is actually harmful?

 

i think that this is probably more of an issue, potentially, with pot.  There is some thought that exposure in the teen years can really impact those who are susceptible to some mental illnesses like schizophrenia.

[Bluegoat]

Looking at the US vs most of western Europe on this interactive map by the WHO, the rate of alcoholism in much of Europe is roughly equal to the rate of alcohol use disorders in the US. Alcohol seems to be far less of a problem for Italy or Spain than the rest of Europe or North American, but a much greater problem in Norway and most of eastern Europe: 

 

http://gamapserver.who.int/gho/interactive_charts/substance_abuse/bod_alcohol_prevalence/atlas.html

 

The drinking culture is rather different in those places.  I suspect that is more the issue than anything to do with age.

[creekland]

This is what I would say - you really can't reconcile those two positions.

 

However, I have heard some people try and claim that the "wine" used at the last supper, the wedding at Cana, and in the early church generally, was actually grape juice.  This seems a pretty incredible claim given the dates people learned to pasteurize juice, but it seems to be an argument people make anyway.

 

 

I've heard this explanation and have countered with asking how people became drunk back then if this were indeed the case...  Even at the wedding, people mentioned that the host saved his best wine for last (when people were drunk or tipsy and wouldn't notice as much) rather than offering it first (when people were still in their right minds).

 

I think those who offer this suggestion aren't reading their Bible too clearly.

[LucyStoner]

I've heard this explanation and have countered with asking how people became drunk back then if this were indeed the case... Even at the wedding, people mentioned that the host saved his best wine for last (when people were drunk or tipsy and wouldn't notice as much) rather than offering it first (when people were still in their right minds).

 

I think those who offer this suggestion aren't reading their Bible too clearly.

They are reading want they want it to say instead of what it actually says. This is not an uncommon problem!

[Spy Car]

Which as far as I can see is irrelevant to what she said.  You can enjoy wine aesthetically and drink to get drunk or buzzed.  But many people don't, which was her point.  Plenty really don't even like to get buzzed but still enjoy a beer or whatever.

 

People don't smoke pot without an expectation of getting high, and if they don't like it they pretty much don't smoke it.

 

 

First, I don't know of anyone who drinks alcohol who doesn't expect to feel some effect, even if it is just the mild relaxation that comes with one drink.

 

Second, the statement was that "the sole reason to consume pot is its effect on the nervous system" and that is not so. As one could savor a delicious wine, beer, or spirit, one could enjoy the the experience of smoking a fine cannabis from an aesthetic standpoint. Not unlike cigar aficionados, many cannabis connoisseurs enjoy the qualities of different strains from the persecutive of taste and smell. It is wrong to believe everyone is just looking to get stoned to the gills, or that cannabis can't be appreciated for its qualities every bit as much as wine, beer or spirits. That is not so.

 

Bill

[regentrude]

Modeling responsible drinking won't stop disease.

 

Alcoholism rates are higher in countries in which alcohol is casually given or offered to children and adolescents.

 

The WHO statistics posted by pp does not confirm this claim.

 

US: male 5.48, female 1.92

France: 4.54/1.07

Germany 4.51/0.88

 

Not sure about the extremely low values in Italy. They are such outliers that I would suspect a problem with data gathering, not the almost complete absence of alcoholism.

 

And you are reading "brain damage" into the posts, "we" are not talking about that.

I was specifically referring to the "alcohol kills brain cells" and "teen brains are still developing" aspects, NOT alcoholism. You may not have been talking about this, but other posters did.

My main interest is the effect on brains when addiction does not play a role. I understand that your personal history and professional experience have you very focused on alcoholism and disease; since I have in my wide family and friend circle not a single example of alcoholism and addiction, this causes me much less concern, and *I* am interested in the other aspect. 

[regentrude]

The drinking culture is rather different in those places.  I suspect that is more the issue than anything to do with age.

 

:iagree: You can't compare drinking in Northern +Eastern Europe with drinking in France or Italy. That's heavy consumption of hard liquor vs wine with meals. I had the latter in mind.

[Joanne]

 

My main interest is the effect on brains when addiction does not play a role. I understand that your personal history and professional experience have you very focused on alcoholism and disease; since I have in my wide family and friend circle not a single example of alcoholism and addiction, this causes me much less concern, and *I* am interested in the other aspect. 

 

Then anecdotals and personal observation suggest that people can socially use alcohol and mj with seeming impunity during the teen and early adult years.

 

You can chill. I actually agree that the "alcohol kills brain cells" meme is as simplistic and outdated as Refer Madness. ;)

[regentrude]

First, I don't know of anyone who drinks alcohol who doesn't expect to feel some effect, even if it is just the mild relaxation that comes with one drink.

 

I have to disagree, but that's OK, since I know different people than you do ;-)

 

Second, the statement was that "the sole reason to consume pot is its effect on the nervous system" and that is not so. As one could savor a delicious wine, beer, or spirit, one could enjoy the the experience of smoking a fine cannabis from an aesthetic standpoint. Not unlike cigar aficionados, many cannabis connoisseurs enjoy the qualities of different strains from the persecutive of taste and smell. It is wrong to believe everyone is just looking to get stoned to the gills, or that cannabis can't be appreciated for its qualities every bit as much as wine, beer or spirits. That is not so.

 

Thanks for educating me. I was not aware that there are pot connoisseurs who consume solely for taste and not the effect. But then, what do I know about pot... I never smoked any, nor did any of my friends growing up. (And yes, lest anybody claim I can't possibly know: I can. The iron curtain was impenetrable to drugs. )

[Spy Car]

I have to disagree, but that's OK, since I know different people than you do ;-)

 

 

Thanks for educating me. I was not aware that there are pot connoisseurs who consume solely for taste and not the effect. But then, what do I know about pot... I never smoked any, nor did any of my friends growing up. (And yes, lest anybody claim I can't possibly know: I can. The iron curtain was impenetrable to drugs. )

 

Everyone who drinks a glass of wine is going to experience some effect, whether they choose to believe it (or not). If you know people who swish wine around in their mouths and then spit it out without swallowing, I'll take your point. Otherwise, not so much.

 

I also know no one who smokes cannabis "solely" for the taste, but it is part of the experience just like wine, beer, or spirits. And like drink many people can enjoy a very wee amount, and appreciate the varietal nature of the herb just like people enjoy the varietal nature of different grapes in wine or different hops in beer (cannabis and hops are very similar in terms of taste and smell). 

 

Bill

[regentrude]

Everyone who drinks a glass of wine is going to experience some effect, whether they choose to believe it (or not). If you know people who swish wine around in their mouths and then spit it out without swallowing, I'll take your point. Otherwise, not so much.

 

It was not my point whether they experience any effect or not, but whether the effect is the reason they drink wine.

As I stated before, I'm a light weight and my tolerance is half a glass after which the "effect" sets in and I stop because I don't find it pleasant. DH has a very high tolerance and does not notice any effect until several glasses later, a point which he rarely reaches.

 

But either of us would drink the wine even if it contained no alcohol and tasted the same (if that were possible). I would, in fact, prefer it, because I would be able to drink more of it ;-)

[Hikin' Mama]

We talked about the following since childhood

alcohol lowers inhibition and clouds judgement and may lead people to do stupid things

alcohol increases reaction time and affects judgement and driving under the influence is an absolute and utter no.

too much alcohol makes you sick, throwing up is disgusting

much too much alcohol can kill.

 

alcohol consumed in moderation and safe situations can be part of a balanced lifestyle - we as parents model responsible drinking

 

and for teens:

if they EVER find themselves in the situation that their driver has drunk alcohol or they are the driver and have drunk alcohol, call parent or call a cab, no questions asked

if they EVER suspect alcohol poisoning in a friend, call 911 - even if you have drunk alcohol yourself when you were not supposed to. Don't let a friend die for fear of getting in trouble.

 

I have no first hand experience with pot. I tell my kids to stay away from it completely because it is illegal and can get them in huge trouble which can't possibly be worth it. I think the jury is still out about conclusive health effects, but not wanting to land in jail seems a much stronger deterrent to me.

 

 

This has pretty much been my approach.

[MBM]

I was specifically referring to the "alcohol kills brain cells" and "teen brains are still developing" aspects, NOT alcoholism. You may not have been talking about this, but other posters did.

 

My main interest is the effect on brains when addiction does not play a role. I understand that your personal history and professional experience have you very focused on alcoholism and disease; since I have in my wide family and friend circle not a single example of alcoholism and addiction, this causes me much less concern, and *I* am interested in the other aspect. 

 

Alcohol affects dopamine, a neurotransmitter. From Siegel's book:

 

For an adolescent whose dopamine release is already revved up, drugs, including alcohol, that directly increase the release of this transmitter create an especially challenging mix of drug-enhanced dopamine levels on top of an already activated adolescent dopamine system. In other words, adolescence is a period not only of drug experimentation to explore novelty, but also of vulnerability to becoming physiologically drawn to using and becoming addicted to alcohol and other drugs.

 

An article about the effect of alcohol -- even small amounts -- on the nuclear accumbens (NAc):

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15704345

 

Even low alcohol doses can increase dopamine release in part of the NAc.

 

 

Another article about adolescence and alcohol:

 

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh26-4/287-291.htm

[regentrude]

 

Another article about adolescence and alcohol:

 

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh26-4/287-291.htm

 

Thanks. But they don't actually explain anything - they basically state that they don't actually know.

 

 

 

Changes in these systems may have a profound effect on adolescent behavior and psychological functioning (Spear 2000b). It is possible that features of the adolescent brain may predispose young people to behave in ways that place them at particular risk for trying alcohol or other drugs.

 

Research on alcohol’s effects on the developing adolescent is still in its infancy, despite the fact that this is the time during which many people begin drinking. There is evidence that people who begin drinking at an early age may have problems with alcohol later in life. Research also has shown that adolescence is a time when remarkable changes are taking place in the brain. Just how alcohol use impacts this development or whether these developmental changes influence alcohol use is unknown.

It also is unclear how gender differences may influence the way that alcohol affects the developing adolescent brain and other body systems. Researchers have shown that chronic alcohol consumption can disrupt developmental changes in hormones associated with puberty in both males (Cicero et al. 1990) and females (Dees et al. 1990). It also is clear that gender influences the perception of stress, a factor that has been shown to lead to higher rates of alcohol use among this age group. Just how these endocrine–related changes influence alcohol use is not fully understood.

Most importantly, future research efforts must examine why early exposure to alcohol is apparently associated with considerably more adverse consequences than later use, and why this age group seems at particular risk for alcohol’s deleterious effects.

 

May, seems, apparently, unclear, not fully understood...

[Melissa in Australia]

I just recently read about a Norwegian guy who is trying to legalize LSD in Norway. LSD can be life-changing for some people, when used correctly.

there are a whole group of people here in Aus that are actively trying to make Heroin and Ice legal.

[Lisbeth]

The Mormon stance is both alcohol and other drugs used for recreation are a big no. In harmony with our Church I teach the same at home. ("Anything that unnecessarily affects your agency is not a way to go," basically.)My parents (non-Mormon) are 100% teetolers though atheists. My mom openly disdains drinking to the point of getting any sort of buzz, so my kids have heard it from various fronts. They don't put down casual drinkers and neither do I, though. As in, we don't teach jydging others. My husband is Catholic and has never once touched an alcoholic beverage or other drug. He also has a non-religious disdain for partaking. I wonder if it is partially the ARFID in his case? We just don't exist in any drinking or drug-taking cultures whatsoever. In my town it is also really rare to witness a smoker. ,)

[MBM]

My main interest is the effect on brains when addiction does not play a role. I understand that your personal history and professional experience have you very focused on alcoholism and disease; since I have in my wide family and friend circle not a single example of alcoholism and addiction, this causes me much less concern, and *I* am interested in the other aspect. 

 

 

Thanks. But they don't actually explain anything - they basically state that they don't actually know.

 

 

 

May, seems, apparently, unclear, not fully understood...

 

Fair enough. Here is something more recent from David DiSalvo, who is a science writer:

 

...alcohol also increases the release of dopamine in your brain’s “reward center.†The reward center is the same combination of brain areas (particularly the ventral striatum) that are affected by virtually all pleasurable activity, including everything from hanging out with friends, going on vacation, getting a big bonus at work, ingesting drugs (like cocaine and crystal meth), and drinking alcohol.

 

By jacking up dopamine levels in your brain, alcohol tricks you into thinking that it’s actually making you feel great (or maybe just better, if you are drinking to get over something emotionally difficult).  The effect is that you keep drinking to get more dopamine release, but at the same time you’re altering other brain chemicals that are enhancing feelings of depression.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/10/16/what-alcohol-really-does-to-your-brain/

 

The brain is affected whether a person drinks a lot or a little because alcohol (ethanol) passes through the blood brain barrier fairly easily.

 

http://www.rise.duke.edu/apep/pages/page.html?020403

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

there are a whole group of people here in Aus that are actively trying to make Heroin and Ice legal.

ICE is illegal? That's strict.

[Rosie_0801]

ICE is illegal? That's strict.

 

Not the frozen water kind. :p

 

The kind that is one of the most dangerous drugs on our streets.

[Liz CA]

Sure.  Lots of people do, but more than an occasional person does not.  That is particularly true where drinking is culturally attached to eating rather than being an activity in itself.

 

Responding to Bluegoat and Regentrude (Multi quote does not work):

 

There has been some research and stats that the number of alcoholics is lower in countries where alcohol consumption is closely associated with meals. Those countries are most notably Italy and France, likely Spain and Portugal as well. If I remember correctly, research revealed that there seems to be a correlation between alcohol abuse and attitude toward alcohol. This is likely true for those without genetic predisposition. This would not apply to those with strong genetic markers.

[Rosie_0801]

Or so the media keeps telling us.

 

Alcohol causes much more widespread misery than ice does. Or heroin for that matter.

 

So my brother who answers phones for police says. Lucky fellow. He gets to chat to all the, uh, interesting people.

 

 

Trends may be different in other states. He only deals with Vic.

[Liz CA]

Or so the media keeps telling us.

 

Alcohol causes much more widespread misery than ice does. Or heroin for that matter.

 

In the U.S, alcohol is the most widely abused "drug." Ice or heroin would probably cause a lot more misery if you had as many people abusing it as there are people abusing alcohol. Is that what you meant? Not being snarky; just trying to clarify.

[Melissa in Australia]

Or so the media keeps telling us.

 

Alcohol causes much more widespread misery than ice does. Or heroin for that matter.

Hmm I think that depends on where you live. a smallish community 40 minutes drive form me has about 70-80% of its TOTAL population on ice. very high levels of violence, etc.

 

 

Ice is very vary bad in small towns in rural areas. trust me I live in one. I teach children who have ice user parents. My sister lives beside a ice user house. I have stopped refereeing Mens basketball because there was a player using ice while playing. it is a HUGE problem.

[Melissa in Australia]

ICE is illegal? That's strict.

Crystal meth. It is called ICE here in Australia. It is becoming a huge problem in rural Australia.

[Melissa in Australia]

First, I don't know of anyone who drinks alcohol who doesn't expect to feel some effect, even if it is just the mild relaxation that comes with one drink.

 

Second, the statement was that "the sole reason to consume pot is its effect on the nervous system" and that is not so. As one could savor a delicious wine, beer, or spirit, one could enjoy the the experience of smoking a fine cannabis from an aesthetic standpoint. Not unlike cigar aficionados, many cannabis connoisseurs enjoy the qualities of different strains from the persecutive of taste and smell. It is wrong to believe everyone is just looking to get stoned to the gills, or that cannabis can't be appreciated for its qualities every bit as much as wine, beer or spirits. That is not so.

 

Bill

 A sophisticated pothead is still just a pothead.

[Bluegoat]

Genes are not destiny. 

 

Environment has an impact.

 

Nobody has claimed that all teens with a genetic risk will go on to be alcoholics/addicts. (Interestingly, this particular genetic prize can manifest differently in girls - my SIL's case, as an eating disorder, for which her father's alcoholism put her at greater risk.)

 

I actually doubt my own kids will become addicts, mostly as a result of environment, which differs radically from the culture on the alcoholic side of the family. But frankly, I'd be an idiot to assume that as a given. 

 

As Joanne confirmed, delaying the age of use is an important tool in keeping kids safe from an illness for which they are at greater risk.

 

There is nothing to lose by educating/discouraging/delaying drug and alcohol use, and everything to gain.

 

I am not one of those people who think alcohol or drugs (other than those medically prescribed) are necessary for a fun, adult life, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest that my kids might 'miss out' because of my gentle education about their risks.

 

Sure, this was really my point.

 

I think however that this is quite different than saying someone has no chance or even next to no chance of not being an addict when exposed because of genetics.

 

And I do think it is generally a bad idea to give young people an exaggerated sense of the risk rather than a realistic one.  I think they are more likely to dismiss it as scaremongering, or possibly even become resigned to it or even romanticize it. 

 

[Bluegoat]

Responding to Bluegoat and Regentrude (Multi quote does not work):

 

There has been some research and stats that the number of alcoholics is lower in countries where alcohol consumption is closely associated with meals. Those countries are most notably Italy and France, likely Spain and Portugal as well. If I remember correctly, research revealed that there seems to be a correlation between alcohol abuse and attitude toward alcohol. This is likely true for those without genetic predisposition. This would not apply to those with strong genetic markers.

 

Yes, this is exactally what I was talking about.  Binge drinking culture in particular is bad for this.

 

I think it probably affects people with a genetic predisposition as well.  No one exists outside of culture, and how you perceive your own behavior is going to be within the context of what is considered culturally acceptable.

[Pam in CT]

Responding to Bluegoat and Regentrude (Multi quote does not work):

 

There has been some research and stats that the number of alcoholics is lower in countries where alcohol consumption is closely associated with meals. Those countries are most notably Italy and France, likely Spain and Portugal as well. If I remember correctly, research revealed that there seems to be a correlation between alcohol abuse and attitude toward alcohol. This is likely true for those without genetic predisposition. This would not apply to those with strong genetic markers.

 

I haven't seen actual studies on this, but it makes sense to me...

 

FWIW, in Judaism, the standard blessing that kicks off Sabbath and most holidays starts with a formula along the lines of "blessed be God, maker of the universe, who sanctified us with commandments and created the fruit of the vine..."  The (very moderate amount of) wine consumed thereafter is understood to sanctify the time (and is nearly always accompanied by a meal).  Drinking to excess is very much frowned upon; but in its proper context wine is joyous and sacralizing.  

 

It makes sense to me that a consistent cultural surround that links moderate amounts of alcohol with food, mixed age gatherings and healthy limits would teach limits more successfully than a black&white orientation that -- to me -- might well drive alcohol into furtive fast unsupervised circumstances as seem to be pretty common in US college settings.

 

 

(Propensities to addiction are a different matter, and happen in all communities everywhere...)

[Liz CA]

Crystal meth. It is called ICE here in Australia. It is becoming a huge problem in rural Australia.

 

Meth is an issue here as well. The thought is that it is more popular in rural areas is because it is often homemade.

[6packofun]

I think limiting it to the occasional wine connoisseeur is not giving people enough credit.

In my entire extended family, my parents' friends when I grew up, and my own various circles if friends, I have never encountered a person who drank for the "buzz". They all drink for the taste and are selective in what they consume. I really don't know anybody who drinks to feel uninhibited, or to get drunk. Drinking wine is part of a nice meal for millions of people - not just "occasional" ones.

 

I know plenty of people who did NOT like alcohol when they first tried it.  How many teens and young adults try beer or wine and actually do not like the taste?  Most it seems to me.  So why do they *continue*? Because they want to be like everyone else.  (Is there another reason?  They want to become a connoisseur of fine beer and wine?  Really?  At the beginning?  LOL)  There are plenty of people who fall between the "connoisseur" and the drink-for-a-buzz or fall-down drunk...and not only the latter extreme probably shouldn't be drinking.

 

I tell my kids that there is nothing wrong with drinking in moderation if you actually LIKE it.  I have always liked champagne.  That's pretty much all I will ever drink, except for the amazing pina coladas that a friend makes on the 4th of July.  lol  I probably have less than half a dozen drinks in a year.  (That's not the only "right" option, of course) I tell our kids that you may find as you get older and try it again that you DO like it.  Great!  Have it as an occasional beverage with your meal. TRYING to develop a taste for it so that you fit in is not a reason to start. *Motivations* are an important part of the discussion for us.  (My dad runs a wine bar, so I've been around wine and beer all of my life and he always offered it. I still don't really like it.  LOL)

[creekland]

Or so the media keeps telling us.

 

Alcohol causes much more widespread misery than ice does. Or heroin for that matter.

 

Not around here.  

 

Well, let me rephrase that.  I'm sure more use alcohol and that can lead to misery for the individual and the family, but with recent graduates from our school, more have succumbed to illegal drugs like heroin - one of the most memorable tossed out into a local hospital's parking lot by her "friends" in winter.  Many others don't make the news anymore - not the official news anyway.  They are just tallied into annual numbers.

[Joanne]

Sure, this was really my point.

 

I think however that this is quite different than saying someone has no chance or even next to no chance of not being an addict when exposed because of genetics.

 

And I do think it is generally a bad idea to give young people an exaggerated sense of the risk rather than a realistic one.  I think they are more likely to dismiss it as scaremongering, or possibly even become resigned to it or even romanticize it. 

 

 

I was answering for MY family and kids. That part, anyway. The generalized answer was contained in the same post.

 

The specific to my family advice is offered in the context of my family. It therefore has the style, tone, and culture of my family. If "you" know me at all, you know that scaremongering is not a parenting style I embrace. I know how my kids "take" my words on using substances. WIth a launched child and one entering college in the Fall, we have these conversations constantly.

 

Add to that my job and the personal background of family members, substance abuse issues are discussed often to say the least.

 

If you are answering my content in which I talk about my children's genetic likelihood, please read the whole of my words in this thread as they are not a match for your use of "scaremongering, resigned, romanticize."

[Joanne]

Heroin use is on the rise (again) primarily because many pill-based opioid addicts discover it is easier and cheaper to get heroin.

 

ETA: Meth is a growing known problem in the US, too, in rural areas.

[regentrude]

I know plenty of people who did NOT like alcohol when they first tried it.  How many teens and young adults try beer or wine and actually do not like the taste?  Most it seems to me.  So why do they *continue*? Because they want to be like everyone else.  (Is there another reason?  They want to become a connoisseur of fine beer and wine?  Really?  At the beginning?  LOL)  There are plenty of people who fall between the "connoisseur" and the drink-for-a-buzz or fall-down drunk...and not only the latter extreme probably shouldn't be drinking.

 

I tell my kids that there is nothing wrong with drinking in moderation if you actually LIKE it.  I have always liked champagne.  That's pretty much all I will ever drink, except for the amazing pina coladas that a friend makes on the 4th of July.  lol  I probably have less than half a dozen drinks in a year.  (That's not the only "right" option, of course) I tell our kids that you may find as you get older and try it again that you DO like it.  Great!  Have it as an occasional beverage with your meal. TRYING to develop a taste for it so that you fit in is not a reason to start. *Motivations* are an important part of the discussion for us.  (My dad runs a wine bar, so I've been around wine and beer all of my life and he always offered it. I still don't really like it.  LOL)

 

When I was young, I only liked light dry whites - that's what grew up with, since that was the prime wine of our region (difficult to get) and what my parents had for dinner and shared with us. For many years, I did not like fullbodied dry reds. That is a taste I acquired through careful cultivation and actually taking a class- not because I wanted to "fit in" or feel the buzz, but because I wanted to learn to appreciate the subtleties. Starting with whites before developing a taste for reds is actually quite typical and was the progression for several of my wine loving friends.

I fully admit to being a wine snob, at least as far as my budget permits (which means I can't really play in the same league as real connoisseurs). Other alcoholic drinks have no appeal; I dislike beer and never touch liquor. Sadly, my enjoyment of wine is limited by my low tolerance for alcohol; unless I work on it actively and build stamina, like the year I took the class.

 

 

[MBM]

Rates of addiction are much higher in some areas than others. The reservation I lived on has extremely high rates of addiction, and meth is now the #1 drug.

 

There are four main drives that motivate adolescents to use drugs:

1. experimentation

2. social connection

3. self-medication

4. addiction

 

On my old reservation, most people are given drugs at sometimes very early ages and ultimately use to self-medicate, become addicted, and finally either end up in prison (like some of my friends) or die, often committing suicide (like some of my friends). These are not people savoring their drugs.

[regentrude]

ETA: Meth is a growing known problem in the US, too, in rural areas.

 

Yes, big problem here in rural Midwest, especially out in the country. Although local police reported a relatively recent heroin problem in town during the past few years.

 

[Orthodox6]

Over here we have been factual from young ages up.  We have known people who have a genetic pre-disposition for alcoholism, we have known people who are "just plain alcoholics."  DH and I are not averse to alcohol; neither is our religion.  We drink something occasionally.  (I welcome a good-quality frozen margarita, for example, when we can afford to splurge when out.)  We know that individuals who must take certain medications for health reasons have additional reasons to guard against drug and alcohol addiction.  We have had relatives who used drugs (and who reaped the negative results of that).  Neither of us (parents) ever has sampled illegal drugs.  I had ample access while in high school, but I found real life far too interesting to resort to a crutch or to a hoped-for "experience". . . .  So we just shared IRL experiences and knowledge and, mercifully, that paid off in healthy young adults.