"Counting" as HS courses taken in 8th

[Halcyon]

Hi-

next year, my rising 8th grader will be taking courses which I suppose are considered HS level: Algebra 2 through Wilson Hill (he has already taken Algebra 1 and will have completed Geometry), Physics (through clovercreekscience) and Latin--he has taken 3 years, but took a year off this year, so I think we will use Wheelock's,but not sure if we should just start in the beginning and move quickly...

 

Anyway, how does one "make" these high school courses, to count as such? Do I need a syllabus? Exams? Grades? Thanks!!

[snowbeltmom]

Hi-

next year, my rising 8th grader will be taking courses which I suppose are considered HS level: Algebra 2 through Wilson Hill (he has already taken Algebra 1 and will have completed Geometry), Physics (through clovercreekscience) and Latin--he has taken 3 years, but took a year off this year, so I think we will use Wheelock's,but not sure if we should just start in the beginning and move quickly...

 

Anyway, how does one "make" these high school courses, to count as such? Do I need a syllabus? Exams? Grades? Thanks!!

 

You would treat these classes in the same manner that you will treat his other high school classes and simply list them on the transcript.  My son's transcript was arranged by subject, but others who arrange the transcript by grade level have had a category on the transcript for classes taken before 9th grade.

 

I included all classes listed on the transcript when calculating the gpa as that is the norm at the public schools in my neck of the woods.  I have read where others list the classes taken before 9th grade, but don't include the grades in the gpa. 

 

[Gratia271]

 

 

I included all classes listed on the transcript when calculating the gpa as that is the norm at the public schools in my neck of the woods.  I have read where others list the classes taken before 9th grade, but don't include the grades in the gpa. 

 

 

That is the norm around here too for any classes on the transcript.

[bettyandbob]

My older dc went to public high school, but the public school counted all math algebra 1 and over and all foreign language (no science) taken in homeschool before high school. These classes were listed on his transcript from the public high school. Ds had Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, Latin 1, Latin 2, French 1, French 2 and French 3 before high school. The grades were even counted in his GPA. 

 

You could do a transcript that lists the courses by subject, not by year taken. I work at an online program and these types of transcripts are much easier for me to read. I don't know how college admissions officers feel, but it's so easy to see quickly that the person has all the math requirements plus more, the minimum English requirements, all the science plus more, the minimum foreign language, minimum arts, etc. It helps me to see the academic strengths quickly. 

[regentrude]

To make them "count", you simply list them on your transcript.

If you submit course descriptions for other classwork, you provide them for these courses as well.

 

I have listed before-9th classes with a note that they were taken before 9th grade and are not included in the GPA and number of credits, because some colleges want to see only the last four years. I have still assigned a grade, and any college wishing to include them is free to do so.

My kids have enough credits that they don't need before 9th to fulfill the minimum credit requirement, and there are no bonus points given for a large number of credits.

[regentrude]

You could do a transcript that lists the courses by subject, not by year taken. I work at an online program and these types of transcripts are much easier for me to read. I don't know how college admissions officers feel, but it's so easy to see quickly that the person has all the math requirements plus more, the minimum English requirements, all the science plus more, the minimum foreign language, minimum arts, etc. It helps me to see the academic strengths quickly. 

 

or you could use the genius transcript template very popular on this board that groups courses by subject as well as by year

[Halcyon]

or you could use the genius transcript template very popular on this board that groups courses by subject as well as by year

 

 

Link?

[regentrude]

Link?

 

look in the pinned transcript thread. I'm prety sure that 8FiltheHeart posted the template at some point.

 

[katilac]

Is there a benefit to having them 'count?' 

 

If it's an unusual course, I can see the allure. But if it's Algebra 2 or Precalc, is there a reason to list Algebra 1? Looking at snowbeltmom's post, it seems like it might be able to enhance GPA if needed. And if you're graduating early, you might need the credits. 

 

Any other reasons? 

[bettyandbob]

Is there a benefit to having them 'count?'

 

If it's an unusual course, I can see the allure. But if it's Algebra 2 or Precalc, is there a reason to list Algebra 1? Looking at snowbeltmom's post, it seems like it might be able to enhance GPA if needed. And if you're graduating early, you might need the credits.

 

Any other reasons?

In my state to graduate from public school you must pass algebra 1 and geometry. And you must take exit exams in those course. Since my entered public high school after taking these course, his school accepted my credits, but ds still had to take the exit exams. The district has special dates for retakes and my ds took the exams with the retake group. It did not matter that ds would have calculus before graduation, he would not have graduated without those specific courses. So, keeping good records of this work will make it possible to change high school plans if necessary.

 

My second reason would be these course might be good to have figured into GPA. Obviously, this depends on how the student performs in them and in other courses throughout high school.

[regentrude]

Is there a benefit to having them 'count?' 

 

If it's an unusual course, I can see the allure. But if it's Algebra 2 or Precalc, is there a reason to list Algebra 1? Looking at snowbeltmom's post, it seems like it might be able to enhance GPA if needed. And if you're graduating early, you might need the credits. 

 

Any other reasons? 

 

Some colleges specifically want to SEE the algebra 1 credit. The fact that having algebra 2 would indicate, to any reasonable person, that the student must have completed algebra 1 previously, does not to seem to suffice for some box checking admissions officials.

 

[quark]

look in the pinned transcript thread. I'm prety sure that 8FiltheHeart posted the template at some point.

 

 

Is it this thread? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/499024-can-the-high-school-transcript-be-more-than-one-page-long/

 

Unfortunately, the pdf link is no longer there.

 

[creekland]

Add us to those who listed high school courses taken before 9th grade, but we never counted credits or GPA from them - very much in line with the public school I work at.  No course taken before 9th grade counts as high school credit there, not even when they are identical to the courses high schoolers take.  But yes, some colleges want to see them listed, just to check boxes.  We did that.

 

My guys weren't short on any credits.  There are always more things that can be studied.  ;)

[Cosmos]

Is it this thread? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/499024-can-the-high-school-transcript-be-more-than-one-page-long/

 

Unfortunately, the pdf link is no longer there.

 

 

I wonder if it's this one? I found it in my files, and it appears I downloaded it in December 2013, which would match that thread. And it is a subject/year combo transcript.

wtm transcript.pdf

[Halcyon]

I wonder if it's this one? I found it in my files, and it appears I downloaded it in December 2013, which would match that thread. And it is a subject/year combo transcript.

 

 

Very awesome. Thank you!

[regentrude]

I wonder if it's this one? I found it in my files, and it appears I downloaded it in December 2013, which would match that thread. And it is a subject/year combo transcript.

 

That is the one.

I believe the template originates from one of the yahoo homeschooltocollege lists; you should be able to find an excel template there

[quark]

Awesome template. Thanks so much Cosmos!

[Mom-ninja.]

Thanks for the link. 

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

It is my understanding so far that to make them count you need a grade, amount of credit granted, course description and list of texts used.

 

I would look critically at how many and which courses you list as pre-high school on a transcript. Especially if you intend on completing a full four years of high school and not graduating early.  You don't want to over-pad a transcript either.

 

I agree with regentrude that so many colleges specify which math courses they want to see that it is often beneficial to include those.  I would just be sure that the text and work were on level with a high school course.

 

[LisaKinVA]

I am planning to only count foreign language, science and math courses prior to 9th grade. I wasn't planning on using them for high school credit -- is there any reason I really *need* to include grades or credits?  (I am keeping their lab reports from the science courses, and do have grades, if someone wants to see them).

 

 

[Mom-ninja.]

It is my understanding so far that to make them count you need a grade, amount of credit granted, course description and list of texts used.

 

 

Why are course descriptions and list of texts needed? 

 

All you put on a transcript is the name of the class, amount of credit, and grade. B&M schools don't include course descriptions or texts used on high school transcripts they give. 

[regentrude]

Why are course descriptions and list of texts needed? 

 

All you put on a transcript is the name of the class, amount of credit, and grade. B&M schools don't include course descriptions or texts used on high school transcripts they give. 

 

I think it is still wise to have the extra information in case something about the transcript is questioned - or if the college te student will apply to in 4 years  requires more information from homeschooled students.

Just because a B&M school is not asked for more info does not mean homeschoolers won't be.

[Guest2]

We took a different route. Instead of providing extra information on the transcript, we included a detailed multipage transcript legend. It was written in the same order ( subject transcript). The legend detailed the course description, including booklists, texts, papers assigned, ect.

 

Then again, if you have a stellar student applying to a top school...perhaps following Regentrude's path would be most prudent:)

[snowbeltmom]

Why are course descriptions and list of texts needed? 

 

All you put on a transcript is the name of the class, amount of credit, and grade. B&M schools don't include course descriptions or texts used on high school transcripts they give. 

 

Some schools require homeschoolers to submit course descriptions and the list of texts used.  This information is typically not included on the actual transcript, but is listed in a separate, multi-page document.

 

While B&M schools don't include course descriptions, they do include a school profile which does provide general information on the courses available.  Many B&M schools also have websites that lists more detailed information for each class that an admissions staff could review if necessary.

 

[FaithManor]

These kinds of questions have no right or wrong answers. It's a grey area of "It all depends" because each state and sometimes each school district sets the their own policies. On top of which, 2700+ four year colleges all with their own guidelines for admissions makes it a crazy maker. Some will want to see algebra 1 or whatever specifically. Others, like the schools my son applied to, only want to see the last four years of school period and make the logical leap that if the student took geometry in 9th, algebra 2 in 10th, and trig in 11th, that algebra 1 was indeed completed.

 

While publically schooled kids are at the mercy of whatever their district's policy is in the matter and therefore the transcript is beyond their control regardless of what the college or university wants to "see" (which kind of makes me think that we kids all over America applying across state and regional lines it can't be that big of a deal despite what any admission department might say), homeschoolers at least can generate more than one transcript tailored to the idiosyncrasies of each college. Therefore, one could generate a transcript listing algebra 1 for the schools that require it even if it was completed in 8th grade, while dropping it for those schools that state they only want to see the last four years of achievement.

 

As a general rule, we've found that colleges either require a bit more of homeschoolers in terms of documentation, or if they don't require it, do like to see it anyway.

As for other documentation, I attached course descriptions, textbook lists, outside verification of achievement, etc. to the transcript. Some places required it. Some did not. I figured, "It can't hurt."

 

 

[Mom-ninja.]

Interesting. It all depends on your plans and your goal. 

[MysteryJen]

NCAA allows for high school core courses to be taken in 8th grade, provided they are for credit, graded, and on the transcript. For ds1, I merely listed them as taken in 8th grade, but didn't award credit/grade. But for dd1, they are on the transcript like the NCAA wants. 

 

As long as they truly are high school level, I think you can do what you want.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Why are course descriptions and list of texts needed? 

 

All you put on a transcript is the name of the class, amount of credit, and grade. B&M schools don't include course descriptions or texts used on high school transcripts they give. 

I've not heard an official answer as to why but nearly every school that my DD has looked at has had a course description and list of texts (or just primary text) as a requirement for homeschooled applicants.  I think most want a solid paragraph not pages of description or even a full syllabus.  This request has either come in the form of explicit instructions on the admissions website or from conversations with admissions counselors.

 

As I understand the situation-most admissions folks are either familiar with the high school's catalog, can access it on the web or in their own files, trusts the accreditation standards or the state standards are being met, etc.  But they have no basis for understanding what was in a homeschooler's course and therefore want a basis to judge difficulty of academics, subjects covered, etc. to weigh against the GPA on the transcript.

 

I should add this isn't Harvard I'm talking about-some of these are state schools.

[snowbeltmom]

NCAA allows for high school core courses to be taken in 8th grade, provided they are for credit, graded, and on the transcript. For ds1, I merely listed them as taken in 8th grade, but didn't award credit/grade. But for dd1, they are on the transcript like the NCAA wants. 

 

As long as they truly are high school level, I think you can do what you want.

:iagree:

 

I know that the OP asked about 8th grade, but just in case someone is wondering how to treat high school classes taken prior to 8th grade...I was told by an NCAA rep that as long as the class is high school level,they don't care when it was taken.  The guy I spoke with said that even if Algebra I is taken in 6th grade, that the NCAA will count it. 

[MEmama]

:iagree:

 

I know that the OP asked about 8th grade, but just in case someone is wondering how to treat high school classes taken prior to 8th grade...I was told by an NCAA rep that as long as the class is high school level,they don't care when it was taken. The guy I spoke with said that even if Algebra I is taken in 6th grade, that the NCAA will count it.

What do you do if you cover a high school level class over two years instead of one? This year (6th) my son completed half of his algebra text. We stopped at the midterm, which he aced at 98% (I only include that because that will become his grade--I wasn't thinking terms of counting this for anything official when we started the year). If I include algebra on his transcript as being completed before high school, would I only list it as having been taken in 7th, combining his 6th grade half year and 7th grade half year? Or would I count it as a half credit for each year?

[snowbeltmom]

What do you do if you cover a high school level class over two years instead of one? This year (6th) my son completed half of his algebra text. We stopped at the midterm, which he aced at 98% (I only include that because that will become his grade--I wasn't thinking terms of counting this for anything official when we started the year). If I include algebra on his transcript as being completed before high school, would I only list it as having been taken in 7th, combining his 6th grade half year and 7th grade half year? Or would I count it as a half credit for each year?

 

I would list it for 7th grade since that is the year he completed the course, but others may award 1/2 credit for both 6th and 7th grade.

 

[MEmama]

I would list it for 7th grade since that is the year he completed the course.

 

That seems simplest. Thank you! :)

[regentrude]

What do you do if you cover a high school level class over two years instead of one? This year (6th) my son completed half of his algebra text. We stopped at the midterm, which he aced at 98% (I only include that because that will become his grade--I wasn't thinking terms of counting this for anything official when we started the year). If I include algebra on his transcript as being completed before high school, would I only list it as having been taken in 7th, combining his 6th grade half year and 7th grade half year? Or would I count it as a half credit for each year?

 

I have simply "completed before 9th grade" and do not elaborate further.

My DS stretechd AoPS Intro to Algebra from 6th through the first half of 8th, with a detour through counting and probability. The transcript will simply say "Algebra 1, taken before 9th grade".

Keep it simple.

[EKS]

Why are course descriptions and list of texts needed? 

 

All you put on a transcript is the name of the class, amount of credit, and grade. B&M schools don't include course descriptions or texts used on high school transcripts they give. 

 

That's because b&m schools are given the benefit of the doubt.  Meanwhile, homeschools are just doubted.

 

Interestingly, the common app *requires* homeschoolers to provide course descriptions for all courses taken *outside* of the homeschool but does not mention needing descriptions of homeschool courses.  So, I had to provide descriptions not only of my own courses, but also all courses taken at accredited institutions.  Which is ridiculous.  (In their defense, I think they are actually targeting the co-op type classes, but unfortunately, classes that would normally not require descriptions are getting included.)

[EKS]

What do you do if you cover a high school level class over two years instead of one? This year (6th) my son completed half of his algebra text. We stopped at the midterm, which he aced at 98% (I only include that because that will become his grade--I wasn't thinking terms of counting this for anything official when we started the year). If I include algebra on his transcript as being completed before high school, would I only list it as having been taken in 7th, combining his 6th grade half year and 7th grade half year? Or would I count it as a half credit for each year?

 

I listed courses by subject, but if I were to list by grade, I would place it in the year it was completed.

[Laura Corin]

In the UK system, I documented early work with exams: Calvin took biology, Chinese and Classical Civilisation GCSEs before typical age and then he was able to enter them as documented 'high school' achievements on our common application.

[creekland]

I've not heard an official answer as to why but nearly every school that my DD has looked at has had a course description and list of texts (or just primary text) as a requirement for homeschooled applicants. 

 

We did not have to do this for any school my guys applied to.  They accepted my transcript the same way they'd have accepted our ps transcript.  Even on the Common App, I just left that part blank.  One school told us it was due to our being from PA - a regulated state where each year our portfolios are technically approved.  The other schools never said a thing.  YMMV  I appreciated NOT having to do it all!

 

Out of nine schools applied to, eight were acceptances with significant merit aid.  One (a lottery school with a 15% acceptance rate) was a waitlist.

 

At all of the schools my guys were in the Top 25% of stats, so that might have been a factor too.

[happyhome]

I am so thankful for the wisdom on this board. High school seems possible, in large part, because of what I learn here. Thank you, thank you.

[MysteryJen]

Regarding course descriptions, for the large state schools ds1 applied to, they did not require course descriptions. He said on his application that they were available on request. Some schools required them, other schools encouraged them. I do think that they helped give a better sense of who he was as a student and ultimately they were helpful to his application.

 

Dd1 needs NCAA core course worksheets and several coaches want to see her transcript with course descriptions. Right now! (like everything with coaches).  But they will have to wait; her semester is almost over.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

That's because b&m schools are given the benefit of the doubt.  Meanwhile, homeschools are just doubted.

 

Interestingly, the common app *requires* homeschoolers to provide course descriptions for all courses taken *outside* of the homeschool but does not mention needing descriptions of homeschool courses.  So, I had to provide descriptions not only of my own courses, but also all courses taken at accredited institutions.  Which is ridiculous.  (In their defense, I think they are actually targeting the co-op type classes, but unfortunately, classes that would normally not require descriptions are getting included.)

 

For course descriptions of community college classes, I pretty much copy what is in the syllabus or the catalog, with an addition describing the institution and where the course fit in the school's scope and sequence.  (Esp. for College Algebra, which seems to be used to describe anything from Algebra 2 to Pre-Calculus, depending on the school.)

 

A couple notes about what I included.  I wanted in put High School Special status into the verbiage, because that was the condition under which he was allowed to enroll as a high school student.  So it is as clear as I can make it that the course met high school and college requirements.  I added the info about being part of a pre-calculus sequence, because it took me a long time to figure that out in the college catalog and course descriptions.  I pretty much copied that from the college.  I included a textbook.  

 

I showed some of my course descriptions to a couple admissions officers at a recent college fair and they were happy with the level of detail.  They mentioned that it helped to see a textbook as a quick gauge of the level of the course.

 

 

 

Ex.

 

College Algebra (xxCollege Math 101-3 credits):  Emphasizes functions (algebraic and transcendental), relations, theory of equations and inequalities, matrices, binomial theorem, sequences and series, and curve fitting using the graphing calculator. Requires graphing calculator.  This course taken on campus at xxCollege (xx, CA) under High School Special status.  Student earned three college credits and one high school credit.  [At xxCollege, Pre-Calculus can be completed by successfully completing MATH 244 (Pre-Calculus) or both 101 (College Algebra) and 104 (Trigonometry) for a total of six credits.]

Textbook:

Hornsby, Lial, Rockswold, A Graphical Approach to College Algebra, 6e, Addison-Wesley, 2014, ISBN: 

 

 

 

[crazyforlatin]

We did not have to do this for any school my guys applied to. They accepted my transcript the same way they'd have accepted our ps transcript. Even on the Common App, I just left that part blank. One school told us it was due to our being from PA - a regulated state where each year our portfolios are technically approved. The other schools never said a thing. YMMV I appreciated NOT having to do it all!

 

Out of nine schools applied to, eight were acceptances with significant merit aid. One (a lottery school with a 15% acceptance rate) was a waitlist.

 

At all of the schools my guys were in the Top 25% of stats, so that might have been a factor too.

So in DD's case if she were to go to PS in 9th grade, I would have to attach a PS transcript and a homeschool transcript (like the one Cosmos linked) for classes taken before 9th grade when we apply to colleges, right? DD will have finished a couple of high school math subjects, a few levels of languages before 9th grade.

 

Whether or not PS will accept them for credit or allow her to take, let's say, trig in 9th grade, is a different issue, correct? Actually, I wonder what happens to the mommy transcript if PS will only allow her to take algebra (unless she passes an entrance exam?).

[wapiti]

So in DD's case if she were to go to PS in 9th grade, I would have to attach a PS transcript and a homeschool transcript (like the one Cosmos linked) for classes taken before 9th grade when we apply to colleges, right? DD will have finished a couple of high school math subjects, a few levels of languages before 9th grade.

 

Whether or not PS will accept them for credit or allow her to take, let's say, trig in 9th grade, is a different issue, correct?

 

I'll be interested to see how my dd's high school handles this.  Maybe these courses get mentioned on the high school transcript, presumably not for credit, or maybe not, but I highly doubt you'd need to submit a homeschool transcript *to colleges* for courses done in middle school.  Lots of kids take high school courses for math and foreign language in middle school and I've never heard of anyone submitting a middle school transcript to colleges.

 

If anything, there might be an opportunity to submit a homeschool middle school transcript to the PS.  It might be worth calling/emailing the high school to find out, along with finding out their placement process.

[quark]

irrelevant reply, sorry!

[fourisenough]

My older girls are in PS for high school. Any "high school level" classes they took before arriving at the PS, earned them placement into higher courses, but not high school credit, and they will not appear on the transcript, nor will those grades figure into their GPAs. They will have plenty of credits taken during 9th-12th grades, including math through Calculus, so I'm told it doesn't matter that Algebra 1 doesn't appear on their transcript because it will be obvious that they have taken/mastered it since they took 4 years of higher math beyond Algebra 1.

[EKS]

So in DD's case if she were to go to PS in 9th grade, I would have to attach a PS transcript and a homeschool transcript (like the one Cosmos linked) for classes taken before 9th grade when we apply to colleges, right? DD will have finished a couple of high school math subjects, a few levels of languages before 9th grade.

 

This is where it gets tricky.  

 

My personal take on it is that if my son were to go to four years of high school at a b&m school, my homeschool transcript would not be relevant.  My son is currently 7th grade age and doing all high school work (after completing 8th grade at a b&m school), so I've told him that if he wants to attend a b&m high school (meaning full time starting in 9th grade) he will lose those credits.  

 

However, if he were to go to a b&m school part time or for fewer than four years, my transcript would be relevant because I would be graduating him.

[creekland]

So in DD's case if she were to go to PS in 9th grade, I would have to attach a PS transcript and a homeschool transcript (like the one Cosmos linked) for classes taken before 9th grade when we apply to colleges, right? DD will have finished a couple of high school math subjects, a few levels of languages before 9th grade.

 

Whether or not PS will accept them for credit or allow her to take, let's say, trig in 9th grade, is a different issue, correct? Actually, I wonder what happens to the mommy transcript if PS will only allow her to take algebra (unless she passes an entrance exam?).

 

My youngest went to our ps after homeschooling 5th - 8th.  Since our ps doesn't allow any credits from middle school to count, even if students took Alg 1 in 7th or 8th grade, this didn't apply to us.  Of course they also weren't going to allow hs courses to count if they don't allow their own.

 

There was absolutely no problem placing him in the class I said he was ready for though.  They took my word on that.  HOWEVER, I work there, so my word could have counted for more than someone they didn't know.  There could easily be a placement test for others, esp if you want a 9th grader starting in Pre-Calc (what Trig usually is in ps now).  Nonetheless, there were no credits for earlier classes.

 

Since colleges accept this as "normal" from my high school, there was definitely no need to send an additional transcript.  He did need a separate transcript sent for his DE class though.

[Halcyon]

In response to seekinghim: 

 

My son will have taken Pre-A, Alg 1, Geometry and Alg 2 before high school. He will also have taken a HS level physics course (but he wants to take both APs so I consider this just prep work). In high school, his math sequence will likely be: 

 

9th: Pre-Calc

10th: AP Calculus

11th and 12th: AOPS Probability and Statistics/AP Statistics?, Intermediate Counting and Probability, Number Theory and some AP classes in the areas that interest him. 

 

For science, not sure yet but likely Biology, AP Chem, AP Physics, Environmental Science/Ecology....