Pulling a Sophomore out of school with four weeks left

[Guest LaffyTaffy]

My son has had a miserable year at school. His freshman year was great, but sophomore year started badly and has stayed that way.

 

A little bit of bullying, poor peer group that developed due to his class schedule (the same small group tracks from class to class), a really tough schedule (were never advised or warned about the intensity of the load), and now illness that has lost him 5 days of school with what feels like an unbearable makeup load. When I try to talk to the school, they just blame him and say that he can't deal with stress well and offered counseling. This may be true, but the other factors were not considered, which is frustrating.

 

He just feels overloaded and stressed to the max. Now there are rumors floating around the school about his absence, and he is just done. 

 

He has been asking to homeschool since January. I'm at the point where I'm stressed all the time so I'm ready to just pull him out, let him take an incomplete, then finish the quarter as a homeschooler.

 

I did talk to someone at the school about the idea and was told that I'm not letting him learn to work through problems. I would just be rescuing him. So now, I'm feeling all kinds of guilt about doing this. But, I really want the stress on us all to stop.

 

Has anyone else done this or have any thoughts on the plan? I really could use some advice as I don't feel like I can talk to IRL people about this.

[EKS]

Honestly, I'd stick it out until the end of the year.  And this is coming from someone who put her son in to a b&m school halfway through 10th grade and withdrew him halfway through 11th grade.  If you're going to be homeschooling when he applies to colleges, the fewer weirdnesses the better.  IMO.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I would be sure about the idea of an Incomplete.  At the schools I have taught, your son would fail.  There are no incompletes given at the end of the school year without significant plans in place and a fairly strong track record.  Incompletes were given at the semester with the idea that contact would still be there with the kid, so the teacher could keep tabs on progress.  That does not mean that your school has this policy, but it might be worth considering if it would dramatically alter the GPA or if that even matters.

 

As for giving your student an out, is this something you have noticed in his personality?  My mother is a person who hangs in till she breaks, then expects an out.  Her mother perpetuated this behavior.  It drives my father and I crazy!  My husband is the opposite extreme.  No one really asked him to express himself, he grew up with "suck it up" being pumped into him, and he now has serious issues asking for help or giving help to others.  Those are two extremes of the spectrum.  Before you give yourself too much guilt, look at whether your child appears to be falling to one side or the other.  If he is in the center, then you are just being a concerned parent - which is never easy!

 

 

 

 

[Guest LaffyTaffy]

Honestly, I'd stick it out until the end of the year.  And this is coming from someone who put her son in to a b&m school halfway through 10th grade and withdrew him halfway through 11th grade.  If you're going to be homeschooling when he applies to colleges, the fewer weirdnesses the better.  IMO.

 

Thanks for replying!

 

Well, here is the other problem. He has made As and a couple of Bs this year. This quarter with the missing week and the stress taking its toll, he could be looking at grades that will knock everything down substantially. Since the transcript only puts the final average, I feel like the stress of this final quarter could take the gpa into a spiral that doesn't really reflect most of the year?

 

How did your kiddo do with applying to college with his situation?   

 

Thanks for the help!

[Guest LaffyTaffy]

I would be sure about the idea of an Incomplete.  At the schools I have taught, your son would fail.  There are no incompletes given at the end of the school year without significant plans in place and a fairly strong track record.  Incompletes were given at the semester with the idea that contact would still be there with the kid, so the teacher could keep tabs on progress.  That does not mean that your school has this policy, but it might be worth considering if it would dramatically alter the GPA or if that even matters.

 

As for giving your student an out, is this something you have noticed in his personality?  My mother is a person who hangs in till she breaks, then expects an out.  Her mother perpetuated this behavior.  It drives my father and I crazy!  My husband is the opposite extreme.  No one really asked him to express himself, he grew up with "suck it up" being pumped into him, and he now has serious issues asking for help or giving help to others.  Those are two extremes of the spectrum.  Before you give yourself too much guilt, look at whether your child appears to be falling to one side or the other.  If he is in the center, then you are just being a concerned parent - which is never easy!

 

I appreciate the help that I'm getting on this board, thank you.

 

Why would a kid fail if you take the kid out to homeschool? How does that work? I would think you just wouldn't get the credit, but fail. So, if I do go into the school to ask this, how would I avoid this scenario?

 

My kid probably errs on the side of "suck it up" and "don't ask for help." Its frustrating.

[EndOfOrdinary]

The reason is because over half the semester/quarter has transpired.  This means that the student has already been counted for FTE (Full Time Enrollment - federal money) and thus must recieve a grade for the course.  An incomplete does not count as a grade.  It means that the student is still enrolled and working to fill in any holes.  It keeps the students status the same into the next year.  The student doesn't count as progressing, they are in a holding pattern.  Thus, very few are given out at the end of the year, and none are given out if the student is withdrawn.

 

There have been previous issues with a kids beginning a school year with K12, then holidays, then parent pulls child out.  This shows that the child has a percentage of work completed that is astronomically low because of the vacation days.  The child is given an F because percentage wise, they have only completed less than 40% of the quarters work.

 

Whether it is sensible or not, logical or not, doesn't matter.  It creates a big, stinky mess to sort out.  Trust me when I say that the burden of proof falls to the homeschooling mom and not the school.  The school will be looked at as infallible by the other academic institutions.  Just cover your butt, is my recommendation. Make sure you ask a whole metric boat load of questions before you mess with your kid's permanent record.  If it was 6th grade, 2nd grade, any thing outside of high school, it wouldn't matter.  High school gets really, really messy.

[snowbeltmom]

 

 

Why would a kid fail if you take the kid out to homeschool? How does that work? I would think you just wouldn't get the credit, but fail. So, if I do go into the school to ask this, how would I avoid this scenario?

 

 

 

When he applies to college, you will have to include his transcript and grades from his current school.  If you pull him out with only 4 weeks left in the school year, the school may give him F's for his classes this year.  You will definitely want to discuss this with the school before you pull him out.

 

Unless you are worried about your son's personal safety and the situation at school is very dire, I would have him finish out the year at his current school.

 

[Mom22ns]

Whether it is sensible or not, logical or not, doesn't matter.  It creates a big, stinky mess to sort out.  Trust me when I say that the burden of proof falls to the homeschooling mom and not the school.  The school will be looked at as infallible by the other academic institutions.  Just cover your butt, is my recommendation. Make sure you ask a whole metric boat load of questions before you mess with your kid's permanent record.  If it was 6th grade, 2nd grade, any thing outside of high school, it wouldn't matter.  High school gets really, really messy.

 

I agree with this. I have no idea what your school's policy will be. I had never thought of them giving grades as EndofOrdinary suggests, but after the explanation, it does make sense. 

 

The grade for the semester should be given by you, just as if he transferred to a different school district, they new district would give the grade. However, I would discuss this very thoroughly to see exactly what his transcript would look like.

 

I actually don't think I'd pull out 4 weeks before the end of the year for the reason, it got hard. I get that it is a bad fit, but it is high school and you really should have made the call at semester or even at the 3rd quarter break. Now isn't the time unless there is something bigger than he was already struggling and then was out sick for a week. I think that is going to be tough to explain honestly to colleges in a way that will not look bad.

[EKS]

Thanks for replying!

 

Well, here is the other problem. He has made As and a couple of Bs this year. This quarter with the missing week and the stress taking its toll, he could be looking at grades that will knock everything down substantially. Since the transcript only puts the final average, I feel like the stress of this final quarter could take the gpa into a spiral that doesn't really reflect most of the year?

 

How did your kiddo do with applying to college with his situation?   

 

Thanks for the help!

 

As the others have said, you want to be very sure of what is going to be on the school's transcript if you pull him.  They could make a good effort to calculate his grades up until the point he withdrew, or they might do something else entirely.  No matter what, you're going to have to live with whatever grades are on that transcript because many colleges ask for official transcripts from all high schools and colleges the student has enrolled in.

 

As for my son, he did well.  He got into his first choice school (and several other as well).  He had good grades at the high school he withdrew from and then he got reasonable grades at the CC afterwards.  His ACT score was excellent and he was able to get letters or recommendation from instructors at both the high school and the college.  But in the stuff I wrote about him, I had to explain what had happened.  I managed to put a positive spin on it though.

 

I would do whatever you can to get your son through the last few weeks of school.  Then you can start next year fresh. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I would hesitate to pull him out in the last month. Can you ask the school to help with the assignments he needs to make up? Are they offering g counseling or telling you to get some elsewhere?

 

How bad are his grades going to be? I think I would have to weigh the worst interpretation a college would put on the withdrawal. Would it seem like he'd been expelled or was pulled because he was failing?

 

Also in my state a homeschooler can't get credit for any high school work done at home. So once pulled out to homeschool there would be no transferring to another public school.

 

Would he have the option of dropping any courses and making them up in summer school? Could he get credit for the semester he did?

 

I would also ask the school for help in quashing rumors about his absence. I realize they may not be at all helpful and you need to weigh you kid's best interests. Hugs as you work through the decisions.

[Guest LaffyTaffy]

I would hesitate to pull him out in the last month. Can you ask the school to help with the assignments he needs to make up? Are they offering g counseling or telling you to get some elsewhere?

 

How bad are his grades going to be? I think I would have to weigh the worst interpretation a college would put on the withdrawal. Would it seem like he'd been expelled or was pulled because he was failing?

 

Also in my state a homeschooler can't get credit for any high school work done at home. So once pulled out to homeschool there would be no transferring to another public school.

 

Would he have the option of dropping any courses and making them up in summer school? Could he get credit for the semester he did?

 

I would also ask the school for help in quashing rumors about his absence. I realize they may not be at all helpful and you need to weigh you kid's best interests. Hugs as you work through the decisions.

The grades are probably going to drop from a 3.7 from the first three quarters to under a 3 because of the last quarter. What is sad is that the transcript only has the final average, not the good grades from the first three quarters.

[ktgrok]

I can't see how they would give him an F. If he moved in the last month of school, and transferred to a new one, they old school wouldn't put F's on his transcript for the last semester, right? It's the same exact thing. (at least where I live). You are withdrawing him from the school and transferring his education to a new one, your homeschool. 

[Lanny]

I believe he should  finish this school year at his current school.  I remember missing a week of  High School when I had the flu and yes I got way behind, but it wasn't like when I took German 101 and had the flu and missed a week.  I dropped that course, because I was lost when  I went back. He has completed most of the semester, so he has a good grasp on the material in each of his courses. He had good grades and if you pull him out now, you may destroy his High School G.P.A., which will hurt him if he wants to attend university,  enlist in the military, etc. 

[Ellie]

My son has had a miserable year at school. His freshman year was great, but sophomore year started badly and has stayed that way.

 

A little bit of bullying, poor peer group that developed due to his class schedule (the same small group tracks from class to class), a really tough schedule (were never advised or warned about the intensity of the load), and now illness that has lost him 5 days of school with what feels like an unbearable makeup load. When I try to talk to the school, they just blame him and say that he can't deal with stress well and offered counseling. This may be true, but the other factors were not considered, which is frustrating.

 

He just feels overloaded and stressed to the max. Now there are rumors floating around the school about his absence, and he is just done. 

 

He has been asking to homeschool since January. I'm at the point where I'm stressed all the time so I'm ready to just pull him out, let him take an incomplete, then finish the quarter as a homeschooler.

 

I did talk to someone at the school about the idea and was told that I'm not letting him learn to work through problems. I would just be rescuing him. So now, I'm feeling all kinds of guilt about doing this. But, I really want the stress on us all to stop.

 

Has anyone else done this or have any thoughts on the plan? I really could use some advice as I don't feel like I can talk to IRL people about this.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

In the first place, why would it be wrong for a parent to rescue her child??? Goodness. That argument is just...stupid. How is a child (and he is still a child, even at his age) supposed to "work through problems" when those problems are things he has absolutely no control over?  This just makes me angry. :cursing:

 

If you withdraw him, you understand that you will probably not be able to re-enroll him, because the school would *probably* not accept this last four weeks of grades from you. So homeschooling will become the end game. Are you ready for that? Because if so, you don't need to worry about the grades; you withdraw him and get his records--all of his records, his whole cum file, not just his transcript--and as the new school, grade his last quarter with you (I'd do a whole quarter, not just a few weeks).

[JanetC]

I can't see how they would give him an F. If he moved in the last month of school, and transferred to a new one, they old school wouldn't put F's on his transcript for the last semester, right? It's the same exact thing. (at least where I live). You are withdrawing him from the school and transferring his education to a new one, your homeschool. 

 

They may denote it as "WP" or "WF" (withdrew whlie passing/failing). They may indicate his current average at time of withdrawal, etc.

 

There are so many different ways that a transcript can be done in this situation, that it is important to both ask the school before you withdraw and to get a copy of the records later to make sure it happened the way they said it would.

[klmama]

Since it is so close to the end of the year, I would help him as much as possible to bring up any grades he can, and then homeschool him for the rest of high school or find a private school that's a better fit.   If his other years and ACT/SAT are stellar, one poor year is not going to make them think he isn't up for college level work, even if it lowers his cumulative GPA.  He can mention the bullying experience in his college essays as a reason for homeschooling and discuss the many wonderful opportunities that change opened up to him -  just make sure he has some wonderful opportunities because of it!

 

 

[FaithManor]

I appreciate the help that I'm getting on this board, thank you.

 

Why would a kid fail if you take the kid out to homeschool? How does that work? I would think you just wouldn't get the credit, but fail. So, if I do go into the school to ask this, how would I avoid this scenario?

 

My kid probably errs on the side of "suck it up" and "don't ask for help." Its frustrating.

Our local PS's will issue a semester grade for the fully completed semester, but do not issue incompletes yet they have to account for the attendance at their school for the second semester and issue the transcript for work completed ...thus they issue a zero for the missed classes and coursework if you pull them out mid-semester. Always homeschoolers here in order to avoid this at college application time have to take them out at the semester break to avoid the F's. Then they are issued a transcript with the appropriate 1/2 credit in each subject with the final grade for the semester.

[ktgrok]

Our local PS's will issue a semester grade for the fully completed semester, but do not issue incompletes yet they have to account for the attendance at their school for the second semester and issue the transcript for work completed ...thus they issue a zero for the missed classes and coursework if you pull them out mid-semester. Always homeschoolers here in order to avoid this at college application time have to take them out at the semester break to avoid the F's. Then they are issued a transcript with the appropriate 1/2 credit in each subject with the final grade for the semester.

 

So what do schools do when kids move??? I mean, I can't see them issuing a transcript with a zero on it for a kid that say, moves across the country or state or whatever. That wouldn't make sense. And lots of people must move at times other than the exact semester break.

[FaithManor]

I can't see how they would give him an F. If he moved in the last month of school, and transferred to a new one, they old school wouldn't put F's on his transcript for the last semester, right? It's the same exact thing. (at least where I live). You are withdrawing him from the school and transferring his education to a new one, your homeschool. 

States are at liberty to set their own policies. While the Michigan public schools have reciprocity so the student transcript for three quarters plus whatever assignments would be sent to the new school in the 4th quarter thus allowing the new ps to issue the final grade based on completion of work in that class in their school combined with the grades from the previous school, there is no requirement to do this for homeschoolers or private schooled students. As a general rule, most of our local PS's will still do this for private schools though that is not true in every case.

 

In the absence of a state law that forces public and private schools to provide x,y,z, to homeschoolers, they will generally look at a student who withdraws to homeschool half way through the last quarter of the school year and who is not transferring to a private school as a drop out and issue grades accordingly.

[EndOfOrdinary]

For kids who transfer mid year at the schools which I have worked, there are often placement tests given and that is the grade they enter the class with.  The student can attempt to pick up the slack if it has only been a week or two into the quarter/semester.  In an instance where the year is almost over, a phone call can be placed to the school and the grade the previous teacher assigns could stand.  This is very sketchy.  This is not policy.  This is giving the student the benefit of the doubt and allowing both the older teacher and the newer teacher to have a very candid and frank conversation about the student.  Definitely not considered PC, but that is exactly what happens when parents request that a grade transfers mid year.  The parent needs to be sure they really want the information transferring.

 

School district to school district is considered something out of the students control and maintaining cultural norms.  This is 100 percent different than being homeschooled.  Legally it is the same thing, but it is not culturally.  As much as that is illogical, it is reality.  School districts can play nice with homeschoolers, but often times view the homeschool situation as a either a threat or a condemnation of the school.

 

In elementary it doesn't matter and it really doesn't in middle school.  Very few people I know transfer their kids mid-year in high school for exactly this reason.  Darn near most PS parents try to do such at the semester break or summer.

[ktgrok]

States are at liberty to set their own policies. While the Michigan public schools have reciprocity so the student transcript for three quarters plus whatever assignments would be sent to the new school in the 4th quarter thus allowing the new ps to issue the final grade based on completion of work in that class in their school combined with the grades from the previous school, there is no requirement to do this for homeschoolers or private schooled students. As a general rule, most of our local PS's will still do this for private schools though that is not true in every case.

 

In the absence of a state law that forces public and private schools to provide x,y,z, to homeschoolers, they will generally look at a student who withdraws to homeschool half way through the last quarter of the school year and who is not transferring to a private school as a drop out and issue grades accordingly.

 

Interesting, I wonder if it is related to how strict or not the regulations are. Here, you "transfer" into homeschooling. You are then registered with the homeschool office, and therefore not a drop out. But, we have a pretty tight system for homeschooling. Maybe that's the difference?

[FaithManor]

Interesting, I wonder if it is related to how strict or not the regulations are. Here, you "transfer" into homeschooling. You are then registered with the homeschool office, and therefore not a drop out. But, we have a pretty tight system for homeschooling. Maybe that's the difference?

Very likely. In Michigan there is no registration or reporting and homeschools are not considered "private" schools as they are in some states, nor do we have to homeschool under the banner of a cover school so there isn't anything, in terms of record keeping, that one transfers in and out of which means the school districts do not have to work with homeschoolers at all if they do not want to making the parents and students subject to the mercy and good graces of administrators.

[MarkT]

The grades are probably going to drop from a 3.7 from the first three quarters to under a 3 because of the last quarter. What is sad is that the transcript only has the final average, not the good grades from the first three quarters.

he still has his finals left - make a big push towards those assuming they have some percentage impact on the final grade

 

what is he taking?

[lmrich]

Keep him in school. He has a chance to pull up his grades. What is his final worth? Look at his grades and his classes and pour energy into the ones that can be brought up a letter grade. The final four weeks of school most classes take a lot of grades. Have you talked to each teacher personally? Sometimes a teacher will answer an email quoting policy, but maybe willing to help out in person. 

[justasque]

My son has had a miserable year at school. His freshman year was great, but sophomore year started badly and has stayed that way.

 

A little bit of bullying, poor peer group that developed due to his class schedule (the same small group tracks from class to class), a really tough schedule (were never advised or warned about the intensity of the load), and now illness that has lost him 5 days of school with what feels like an unbearable makeup load. When I try to talk to the school, they just blame him and say that he can't deal with stress well and offered counseling. This may be true, but the other factors were not considered, which is frustrating.

 

He just feels overloaded and stressed to the max. Now there are rumors floating around the school about his absence, and he is just done. 

 

He has been asking to homeschool since January. I'm at the point where I'm stressed all the time so I'm ready to just pull him out, let him take an incomplete, then finish the quarter as a homeschooler.

 

I did talk to someone at the school about the idea and was told that I'm not letting him learn to work through problems. I would just be rescuing him. So now, I'm feeling all kinds of guilt about doing this. But, I really want the stress on us all to stop.

 

Has anyone else done this or have any thoughts on the plan? I really could use some advice as I don't feel like I can talk to IRL people about this.

 

Academics are important, but they are not always the top concern in what is best for a child.

 

I would seriously consider taking him out now.  He's told you he wants out, he's told you he is being bullied, he's told you he is stressed to the max, and on top of all that he's been sick.  The school told you that you would just be rescuing him.  Yes, indeed, that's exactly what you'd be doing.  That's what he's asking you to do.  That's what he's been asking you to do since January.  Listen to your child.

 

Yes, there may be academic ramifications that you will have to deal with.  You can talk to the school about what you can do to minimize them, and you can talk to homeschoolers in your particular state about various options that may help.  He may even end up having to do an extra year of high school.  It won't be the end of the world.  You've said he has been a good student in the past.  He needs to find the environment that will allow him to be a good student in the future, and where he is right now isn't it.  Talk to him - explain the possible ramifications of leaving school now, and ask him what he wants to do.  Let him decide.  And if he decides to go back, continue to make sure he knows he can quit at any time.  Just knowing that he can quit might be the thing that will help him deal with the school environment for a few more weeks.  Or he may decide to stay home.  Give him the power, every day, to decide where he needs to be, in order to be safe and healthy.

[katilac]

I agree with a lot of what Justasque said. 

 

I do think it is preferable for his transcript if he finishes out the school year, at least in most districts. I say that as a person who has always advocated against making a student finish the year instead of withdrawing at winter break, and as a person who wouldn't hesitate to pull out a younger student with just a few weeks left. However, he is in high school, and I wouldn't want a decision made in haste. 

 

What I would do is try to track down official policy, as opposed to what the school might tell you. Start searching online now. Monday morning, call the school DISTRICT, not the school, and ask for the official policy. Is leaving to homeschool a withdrawal or a transfer? How it it officially handled? 

 

Don't explain your son's particular situation or what school he is at (it should be a district-wide policy). You don't want their advice, you want their policy, and you don't just want it verbally - ask them where you can find it online. 

 

I would explain the ramifications and tell him the final decision is his. However, if I sensed that he probably could make it through the month with only short-term stress, I would brainstorm ways (with him) to make it do-able and bearable. Help him break it down, work-wise and time-wise, so that he is looking at chunks that can be managed day to day, rather than the whole mountain of work. Small rewards along the way and big reward at the end - for both of you! 

 

I would also help him a lot more in this situation than I normally would. Can you start the research process for an English paper while he works on math? If he has to look up and write down definitions, can you look them up and call the them out so he just writes? There are probably better examples, but you get the idea. 

 

At this point, it's all about getting through these last few weeks with the best possible outcome for him. If you know it's a transfer and you can grade his last quarter, then great, get him outta there. If it's a withdrawal and he doesn't want to take the hit, then be overly helpful mom for a few weeks and just git-r-done. If it's a withdrawal and he still can't stand to stay, then he leaves and starts working on a great last two years. 

 

It's a hard decision. Good luck.

[yvonne]

You mentioned that he missed a week of school due to illness. If he's dealing with a longer term illness or depression, that would be cause for a longer absence.  Does the district have any contingencies for an extended medical absence? 

 

Some districts here will arrange for an "educational specialist" to come to the home and help the student keep up on school work. Maybe he could get an extension to allow him to hand in work/take the finals late.  If he can get a medical excuse and could do the work from home, he could avoid the miserable situation in the classroom and get the time needed to get his final grades up and finish out the year without impacting his transcript.

[MarkT]

You mentioned that he missed a week of school due to illness. If he's dealing with a longer term illness or depression, that would be cause for a longer absence.  Does the district have any contingencies for an extended medical absence? 

 

Some districts here will arrange for an "educational specialist" to come to the home and help the student keep up on school work. Maybe he could get an extension to allow him to hand in work/take the finals late.  If he can get a medical excuse and could do the work from home, he could avoid the miserable situation in the classroom and get the time needed to get his final grades up and finish out the year without impacting his transcript.

and they may allow him to finish up over the summer