I ran net price calculators like suggested....

[Ann.without.an.e]

I didn't want to completely hijack Joanne's thread ;)

 

This was my finding...

 

Wake Forest

Loan $4,000

DD work contribution $2300

Our contribution $3000

 

Emory

Loan $5,500

DD work contribution $3,000

Our contribution $3,000

 

Duke

Loan $5,500

DD work contribution $2600

Our contribution $2000

 

NC State

Loan $5,500

DD work contribution $2300

Our contribution $2000

 

UNC Chapel Hill

Loan $2300

DD work contribution $2500

Our contribution $2000

 

Ok so here are my thoughts....WHY in the world are we worried about 'going over the top' for merit aid?  If she is okay with a loan of up to $5,500 a year then she can probably go somewhere for not much more than that?  I just need to focus on getting her into college and not so much worry about the aid.  She's smart, it will probably take care of itself.  or am I missing something? Is there anything I need to know? 

[Joules]

I think the things that garner great merit aid (ECs, high test scores, challenging classes, great writing) are also the things that get students into competitive colleges, so I would think that those things wouldn't change. But since you have a low EFC, you can search for colleges based on need met, rather than merit aid awarded. There is some overlap, but often they are different lists.

[Jen in NY]

Can you describe what you mean by "setting her up to get great merit aid"?

 

So many schools that have good fin-aid (grants as opposed to loans) are competitive to get into. High test scores, strong academic rigor, good extra-curriculars, and good admissions essays are going to be necessary to get into those schools .... not just ticking off the admissions requirement minimums.

 

I am not too familiar with the schools you highlighted, but a quick check tells me that UNC Chapel Hill accepts only 27% of their applicants, and their middle 50 for SAT Scores combines to about 2000.... give or take.

 

Are the strategies for getting into schools like that the same as setting up for merit aid at schools that are maybe less well endowed or less competitive?

 

(I have one more kid to get into college.... always interested in learning more!)

:)

 

LOL. I was writing as Joules was posting. Had I waited I could have just 'liked' her post! :)

[creekland]

I agree with Joules.  You try to set her up for great merit aid because those same high stats and ECs will be what helps get her in to top schools (and any Honors Program they might have).  It's not as simple as "apply and go there."  Admission is competitive - generally moreso for those with high need.

 

You are also fortunate to live in NC where the state schools are terrific with need based aid.  ;)

[Ann.without.an.e]

Can you describe what you mean by "setting her up to get great merit aid"?

 

So many schools that have good fin-aid (grants as opposed to loans) are competitive to get into. High test scores, strong academic rigor, good extra-curriculars, and good admissions essays are going to be necessary to get into those schools .... not just ticking off the admissions requirement minimums.

 

I am not too familiar with the schools you highlighted, but a quick check tells me that UNC Chapel Hill accepts only 27% of their applicants, and their middle 50 for SAT Scores combines to about 2000.... give or take.

 

Are the strategies for getting into schools like that the same as setting up for merit aid at schools that are maybe less well endowed or less competitive?

 

(I have one more kid to get into college.... always interested in learning more!)

:)

 

 

 

My wording was bad.  I edited.  I just hear about what the kids have to be in order to get merit scholarships and I am not sure we have what that takes?  She hasn't built a rocket for NASA or single-handedly fed a village in Africa (yes, I am being sarcastic...you get my point ;). 

[creekland]

My wording was bad.  I edited.  I just hear about what the kids have to be in order to get merit scholarships and I am not sure we have what that takes?  She hasn't built a rocket for NASA or single-handedly fed a village in Africa (yes, I am being sarcastic...you get my point ;). 

 

You are SO behind the times.  (sigh)  We try to get parents to realize they need to start their rocket projects in 6th grade and ought to be feeding the villages by 8th. 

 

It is tough to get the full ride scholarships at top schools.  The competition is very fierce.  You sound like you are pretty "set" with your need-based aid options, so that is a terrific "safety" to have in the bag - but keep up the rest so she gets accepted at more than one place and has a choice.  ;)

[Ann.without.an.e]

I agree with Joules.  You try to set her up for great merit aid because those same high stats and ECs will be what helps get her in to top schools (and any Honors Program they might have).  It's not as simple as "apply and go there."  Admission is competitive - generally moreso for those with high need.

 

You are also fortunate to live in NC where the state schools are terrific with need based aid.   ;)

 

 

again....bad wording, I edited.  I just mean the over-the-top competitive stuff that you hear about for those who get big merit scholarships.  We won't have that.  One of the main reasons...money, money, money.

 

DD gets catalog after catalog in the mail about summer programs and she drools but we just can't.  She is limited because of finances.  We can't produce a transcript where she has "done" a lot...all we can do is show who she is and her academics.  She mentors a group of middle school girls, she is a self taught artist (and she is talented), she is taking AP classes and she will take some SAT sub tests for validity but other than that we don't have anything big and merit worthy.  If that makes sense?  She has great standardized tests grades.  That's about it.

 

ETA - I wrote this before your last reply. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

You are SO behind the times.  (sigh)  We try to get parents to realize they need to start their rocket projects in 6th grade and ought to be feeding the villages by 8th. 

 

It is tough to get the full ride scholarships at top schools.  The competition is very fierce.  You sound like you are pretty "set" with your need-based aid options, so that is a terrific "safety" to have in the bag - but keep up the rest so she gets accepted at more than one place and has a choice.   ;)

 

 

Haha...I know you are only half kidding though ;)

[creekland]

again....bad wording, I edited.  I just mean the over-the-top competitive stuff that you hear about for those who get big merit scholarships.  We won't have that.  One of the main reasons...money, money, money.

 

DD gets catalog after catalog in the mail about summer programs and she drools but we just can't.  She is limited because of finances.  We can't produce a transcript where she has "done" a lot...all we can do is show who she is and her academics.  She mentors a group of middle school girls, she is a self taught artist (and she is talented), she is taking AP classes and she will take some SAT sub tests for validity but other than that we don't have anything big and merit worthy.  If that makes sense?  She has great standardized tests grades.  That's about it.

 

 

And that should work out well for her as long as she doesn't get her heart set on ONE school.  Make sure she applies to a few including at least one that will be a guaranteed acceptance based upon her stats.  It won't matter that she doesn't win any big competitive scholarship.  Chances are, since your need based aid will make college affordable for you, that she would have less of a chance to win anyway.  Colleges like to use their big non-need based competitive scholarships to attract the students they know they wouldn't get otherwise - like the gal I mentioned.  If she'd had to pay, she'd be at Stanford.  For free she was willing to consider other schools.

 

They use their need based aid to attract other top students.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I was surprised at Furman though.

 

They calculated merit aid, need aid etc, etc and then subtracted a student loan and showed us needing to come up with 13,000 a year?

 

 

 

 

Should we strike that one from the list??

[Pawz4me]

This is my simplistic takeaway from my grand total experience of getting one kid into college.  So take it FWIW and defer to those who know more. ;)

 

Our EFC is very high.  We knew going into it there would be no financial aid.

 

DS applied to several of the schools you listed (Duke, Wake, Chapel Hill).  He was accepted at Wake and Chapel Hill.  His course work, GPA, test scores and extra-curriculars made him a solid match (but not a truly stellar match) for those two schools.  He's a smart, solid and well-rounded student, but he hasn't discovered a cure for cancer or worked with the scientists in Antarctica or anything like that.  He was offered a little grant aid at Wake but nothing at Chapel Hill.  As far as I know Chapel Hill isn't known for offering much in the way of merit aid except to those students who win top scholarships (Morehead Cain, etc.).  DS applied to the University of South Carolina as a safety.  His stats made him fairly stellar there, and they offered quite a lot of merit aid.

 

So my experience is that if you want or need merit aid, you need to look at less selective schools where your kid will truly be a standout.  Standout students are the ones who get offered merit aid, and it takes a lot to stand out at the very selective, top rated schools because for the most part every student accepted at those schools stands out in some way, even if it's "just" GPA and test scores.  If you can get solid financial aid then good.  But she'll need to keep up her academics to get accepted into those top schools.  And that same academic work will keep the door open for merit aid from less selective schools.

[8filltheheart]

My wording was bad. I edited. I just hear about what the kids have to be in order to get merit scholarships and I am not sure we have what that takes? She hasn't built a rocket for NASA or single-handedly fed a village in Africa (yes, I am being sarcastic...you get my point ;).

There are multiple issues. High EC activity with significant impact (volunteering included) is often considered for admission to top schools. So those very high stats with high levels of academic achievement combined with ECs are what are required to be competitive to apply. Getting accepted is standing out in the sea of all the other equally top applicants.

 

Those same qualities are what make kids competitive for Morehead or Park. As an instate student, getting accepted to the school is not as difficult as OOS ( UNC has an OOS acceptance rate of 15%) but admission is still competitive. (I have read a lot of threads about kids being shocked at being deferred at NC schools.). So those same qualities help with admission, even if they are not Morehead or Park level.

 

But move down a notch, and scholarships are based far less on ECs in the combo and more on just academic achievement. Those full rides for NMS status are stat based, not big picture student resume based.

 

If you are admitted and schools are affordable to the individual family, that is win-win. :)

 

If I were you, I would start investigating what it takes to be admitted to those schools for the desired major.

[Ann.without.an.e]

There are multiple issues. High EC activity with significant impact (volunteering included) is often considered for admission to top schools. So those very high stats with high levels of academic achievement combined with ECs are what are required to be competitive to apply. Getting accepted is standing out in the sea of all the other equally top applicants.

 

Those same qualities are what make kids competitive for Morehead or Park. As an instate student, getting accepted to the school is not as difficult as OOS ( UNC has an OOS acceptance rate of 15%) but admission is still competitive. (I have read a lot of threads about kids being shocked at being deferred at NC schools.). So those same qualities help with admission, even if they are not Morehead or Park level.

 

But move down a notch, and scholarships are based far less on ECs in the combo and more on just academic achievement. Those full rides for NMS status are stat based, not big picture student resume based.

 

If you are admitted and schools are affordable to the individual family, that is win-win. :)

 

If I were you, I would start investigating what it takes to be admitted to those schools for the desired major.

 

She has no idea about major :(

[8filltheheart]

She has no idea about major :(

Then I would look at ones she might consider. For example, getting accepted as an engineering major at NCSU is competitive. If that is one she might consider, understand the level of competitiveness.

[Ann.without.an.e]

So getting into chapel hill, state, etc...

 

What is dd lacking?

She takes rigorous classes

She will have SAT sub tests and AP scores

Her standardized test scores will be competitive

She has her art

She leads a group of 5th-6th grade girls

 

What is she missing? What gap do we need to fill? She loves to write so I thought about encouraging her to enter some writing contests?

 

And here is the question I probably shouldn't asked here...do I need to put her in PS? Are the only homeschooled kids who get into these schools ones who have built rocket ships and fed third world countries? Does getting in as a homeschooler require as much as if you were aiming for merit as a public schooler? I get that feeling when I read comments on here sometimes :/

[creekland]

I was surprised at Furman though.

 

They calculated merit aid, need aid etc, etc and then subtracted a student loan and showed us needing to come up with 13,000 a year?

 

 

 

 

Should we strike that one from the list??

 

I would.  Furman is the school that wanted us to pay the most (way beyond our EFC - not even in the same ballpark).  It surprised me because I had heard they were good with aid.

 

It turns out, the year my middle son applied they changed their policy.  Instead of heading toward more need-based aid they opted away from it.  In their alumni publication they had mentioned something like "preferring a different demographic" of student.  Many of us on college confidential at the time interpreted that to mean they were looking for wealthier students.  We mused that perhaps too many of their current wealthy students were meeting their future spouses and those need-based aid spouses didn't live up to the standards mama and papa wanted to see.

 

It was ALL tongue in cheek with our musing, of course, but it is extremely rare to see a school head toward cutting need-based aid and in favor of basic merit aid (10 - 20K - enough to make a dent, but not much in the overall price).

 

In hindsight I'd have cut Furman without even wasting a day on a visit, but we were in their transitional year, so there's no way I could have known ahead of time.

 

To contrast, that same year Franklin & Marshall cut almost all merit aid in favor of more need based aid.  We cut them too as our finances are flexible.  We didn't need fantastic aid one year, then no aid the next.  My guys all have a combo of merit and need based aid.  With their merit aid, we know the max we would have to pay in a superb year.  Ivies were not considered by middle son for the same reason - no merit aid - all need-based.

 

If folks are in a need-based situation, Furman is NOT a school I recommend considering unless one learns that they change their current policy back.

[8filltheheart]

I know nothing about Carolina, but ds applied and was accepted to NCSU as an OOS student. They have a weird drop down menu for categorizing your classes. I think we messed up there. In hindsight, if ds really had wanted to attend and be more competitive for scholarships, that part shouldn't have been filled out without talking to someone in admissions bc we didn't really understand some of the classifications.

 

Other than that, I'm sure his acceptance was just based on this transcript, but his transcript is unusual.

 

Read the UNC and NCSU forums on CC and see what students are posting. I would ignore OOS students and focus on instate bc the level of competitiveness is different.

[creekland]

So getting into chapel hill, state, etc...

 

What is dd lacking?

She takes rigorous classes

She will have SAT sub tests and AP scores

Her standardized test scores will be competitive

She has her art

She leads a group of 5th-6th grade girls

 

What is she missing? What gap do we need to fill? She loves to write so I thought about encouraging her to enter some writing contests?

 

And here is the question I probably shouldn't asked here...do I need to put her in PS? Are the only homeschooled kids who get into these schools ones who have built rocket ships and fed third world countries? Does getting in as a homeschooler require as much as if you were aiming for merit as a public schooler? I get that feeling when I read comments on here sometimes :/

 

Brief answer as hubby is waiting for me to head out snorkeling... (tough life, but someone needs to do it!)

 

NO, she doesn't need to go into PS and it might work against her pending the school.  Many schools including those in the Top rankings like to see homeschoolers apply to add to their diversity.

 

Writing contests are a great idea.  If she wins - great - if not - it was still a good experience.  Middle son won some around here.  ;)

 

Are art contests an option too?

 

I think she will be a terrific applicant for NC State schools and many privates.

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm not familiar with Wake Forest, but Duke and Emory are highly competitive and provide great financial aid.  The numbers you saw with Furman are probably more representative of what you'll find from most private colleges without the huge endowments like Duke and Emory.  To round out your potential list of colleges, I'd look for some affordable matches.  It's harder to find affordable ones, but it may give her more options.   Money should not hold her back from having great experiences to include in her application.  Again it's harder to find opportunities, but they do exist and volunteer work is a good option and she should do what she's interested in and enjoys.

[Hoggirl]

So getting into chapel hill, state, etc...

 

What is dd lacking?

She takes rigorous classes

She will have SAT sub tests and AP scores

Her standardized test scores will be competitive

She has her art

She leads a group of 5th-6th grade girls

 

What is she missing? What gap do we need to fill? She loves to write so I thought about encouraging her to enter some writing contests?

 

And here is the question I probably shouldn't asked here...do I need to put her in PS? Are the only homeschooled kids who get into these schools ones who have built rocket ships and fed third world countries? Does getting in as a homeschooler require as much as if you were aiming for merit as a public schooler? I get that feeling when I read comments on here sometimes :/

Our situation was different than yours, but I will explain *our* purpose in seeking out large, stats-based, merit scholarships. Ds was pretty much "come big or stay at home," in his approach to where he wanted to attend college. Meaning, if he did not get into a top school, he wanted to go where the money was. He applied to two "match schools" which were privates (one which was thrown in at the last minute as it had no supplements). He received merit awards of around $20,000 per year at each of those, which would have put their total cost of attendance at around $40,000. In his mind, a private match school was not going to be worth $40,000 per year. He would have preferred going to a safety for significantly less. He had some good (combined to = full COA at two different Big State Us) options because of National Merit AND winning some competitive merit scholarships.

 

Without knowing specific numbers for your student, it's hard to make any predictions. Even *with* specific numbers it can be hard to make predictions. However, the list for which you ran NPCs includes some pretty competitive schools. So, as another poster pointed out, life works out great for her IF she gets accepted to those schools. The point of seeking large, institutional merit money for a high-stats kid is to have a back-up if she doesn't. And, as another poster pointed out, you are fortunate to live in a state that meets a lot of need. If you didn't, your choices might be free if she got into Duke, Wake, Emory, etc. OR something you could not afford without loans if she had no financial safety.

 

There are residents of certain states (VA and PA are often mentioned - I'm sure there are others) where, depending on your income and assets, your student is going to be able to go to certain private institutions for FAR less than s/he could go to the flagship. That is *IF* s/he can get accepted to the private institution. But those schools who offer need-based aid without loans are few and far between and extremely competitive to gain admission to. Not saying your daughter doesn't have the stats to do that. However, you can't *rely* on getting into one of those types of schools. And many private schools that are "matches" are going to prove unaffordable because of gapping. From your examples, Furman would likely be one of those.

 

You are wise to be running numbers now and learning about the mixes of aid (grants/loans/work-study) that schools offer.

[Starr]

Don't think colleges are need blind. They only take so many students who qualify for a lot of aide. And they don't have to follow the recommendations.  I agree not to worry so much but if she wants to go to a competitive college it helps to keep up the resume. 

[unsinkable]

My wording was bad. I edited. I just hear about what the kids have to be in order to get merit scholarships and I am not sure we have what that takes? She hasn't built a rocket for NASA or single-handedly fed a village in Africa (yes, I am being sarcastic...you get my point ;).

That depends. Some places give scholarships based solely on GPA and SAT scores. They aren't competitive schools but we weren't aiming for a competitive school. It's awfully nice to plug in a GPA and SAT score and see an almost 60% scholarship.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Don't think colleges are need blind. They only take so many students who qualify for a lot of aide. And they don't have to follow the recommendations.  I agree not to worry so much but if she wants to go to a competitive college it helps to keep up the resume. 

 

Completely stupid question, I know but do you give financial information when you apply? 

[Jen in NY]

Completely stupid question, I know but do you give financial information when you apply? 

 

The short answer is Yes. If not immediately, then before a deadline if you want to be considered for aid, which is before the admissions decision deadline, if that makes any sense.

 

 

 

IOW, the usual sequence is something like: 1. Apply to a school. 2. Apply for financial aid. 3. Get admission decision. 4. Get aid info.

 

Many (but not all) schools use your ability to pay in their admissions decision. If you want to apply somewhere that does not, look for 'need blind' schools.

 

DD has been accepted at two schools so far but has not yet gotten any financial information.

[Pawz4me]

So getting into chapel hill, state, etc...

 

What is dd lacking?

She takes rigorous classes

She will have SAT sub tests and AP scores

Her standardized test scores will be competitive

She has her art

She leads a group of 5th-6th grade girls

 

What is she missing? What gap do we need to fill? She loves to write so I thought about encouraging her to enter some writing contests?

 

And here is the question I probably shouldn't asked here...do I need to put her in PS? Are the only homeschooled kids who get into these schools ones who have built rocket ships and fed third world countries? Does getting in as a homeschooler require as much as if you were aiming for merit as a public schooler? I get that feeling when I read comments on here sometimes :/

 

I can't address NCSU.  I do know kids who're going there, but not well.  My last close familiarity with it was about 35 years ago when my brother was there.  Not exactly relevant any more. ;)

 

Chapel Hill has a holistic admissions process.  But it leaves a lot of people scratching their heads.  I know some really high stats kids who haven't gotten in.  I know some slightly lower stats kids with excellent extra-curriculars who have gotten in.  I like to think the high stats kids who didn't get admitted flubbed something up on the app.  But who knows?

 

As far as homeschool -- No, I don't think you need to put her in public school.  Although I don't know any specifics about Chapel Hill's attitude toward homeschoolers, I think overall it can often be a hook.  I can tell you that last summer when we were at orientation one of the breakaway sessions was for students (and their parents) who were coming from homeschools.  That indicated to me that there was likely a significant number of them.

[creekland]

Completely stupid question, I know but do you give financial information when you apply? 

 

Sometimes.  Some only ask if you will be applying for financial aid when you apply.  Others want to see more info before you find out admission status.  Some don't ask for any.

[katilac]

Sometimes.  Some only ask if you will be applying for financial aid when you apply.  Others want to see more info before you find out admission status.  Some don't ask for any.

 

You have to keep in mind that there is a finite pool of money for both merit and financial aid. It's shooting yourself in the foot to delay asking for financial aid in the hopes of increasing your chance of admission. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Really look at the financial aid process for the school.  Many schools require the FAFSA and the CSS.  The FAFSA is easy peasy compared to the CSS.

 

If your student wants to apply Early action or early decision, you may need the financial information as early as Sept or Oct.  We had to submit income information for 2013 and 2014 (estimated) in Oct for one of DS's schools.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Really look at the financial aid process for the school.  Many schools require the FAFSA and the CSS.  The FAFSA is easy peasy compared to the CSS.

 

If your student wants to apply Early action or early decision, you may need the financial information as early as Sept or Oct.  We had to submit income information for 2013 and 2014 (estimated) in Oct for one of DS's schools.

 

 

I keep hearing that only those who can afford the school should apply early decision.  Is that true?  For example, I've read that if you need to take into account aid at all then do not apply early decision.  I've also heard that the aid isn't as good because you are committed before a financial package is presented.  Just curious if there is validity to this.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I keep hearing that only those who can afford the school should apply early decision.  Is that true?  For example, I've read that if you need to take into account aid at all then do not apply early decision.  I've also heard that the aid isn't as good because you are committed before a financial package is presented.  Just curious if there is validity to this.

 

That depends.  DS and I had an indepth conversation with admissions and fin. aid from his #3 school.  The school was encouraging DS to apply ED.  We were told (for this school) that any student who applied ED was offered a preliminary fin. aid package at time of admission. They stated that only 1 student in the last 5 years had to decline the ED decision based on financials.  We were also told the inability to meet the financial contribution was the only way to break the binding ED contract.

 

Since this was DS's #3, he chose not to apply ED. 

 

The school to which he did apply ED (and was deferred) also included fin aid packages with the admissions decisions.  This is the school we had to submit all of our tax info in Oct.

 

Maybe someone else has more information to share.

[Jen in NY]

Again, I think it depends on if you are applying to a school that is a need blind/ 100% EFC meeting type school. If you are, and you feel that you can comfortably afford your EFC, (and your student is absolutely sure of a school), there is no downside to applying ED. The thing about ED is that it is usually binding, and if you are accepted you have to withdraw applications from all other schools usually before any acceptance decision or scholarship offers.

 

For instance, my dd#1 was absolutely in love with Cornell. We did the calculations and figured out that it would cost less than a state school here in NY (for us.) She went ahead ED, and was accepted. She had to shut down all the other apps. We had no information about how it would have gone with other schools as far as scholarships go.....  but if you apply ED the school in question really knows you are serious!

 

DD#2 has similar stats to dd#1, but was not absolutely sure that she wanted to follow her sister. She applied to a number of schools, and lo and behold has been invited to apply for high level scholarships and honors programs. Who knows how it will end up? But it may be equally as attractive (or better financially, or just 'fit') for her to go somewhere else. We'll see where the chips fall.

 

I can only assume that dd#1 would have been eligible for the same opportunities, but she will never know. :)

 

I have no idea how the process works for other schools where you can't figure out what your EFC would be ahead of time.

This is a good list to peruse for 100% EFC meeting schools: http://www.thecollegesolution.com/list-of-colleges-that-meet-100-of-financial-need/

 

 

 

 

 

[Pawz4me]

I keep hearing that only those who can afford the school should apply early decision.  Is that true?  For example, I've read that if you need to take into account aid at all then do not apply early decision.  I've also heard that the aid isn't as good because you are committed before a financial package is presented.  Just curious if there is validity to this.

 

Chapel Hill's early decision is NOT binding.  Since we didn't qualify for any financial aid, I can't say for sure when they send that out.  But I see only "pros" to applying there early since the admission percentage is generally higher than for regular decision applicants.  I assume, but don't know for sure, that the same would be true at NCSU.  The only kids I know who wait to apply to UNC or State are almost always kids who need a little more time to improve their GPA or get scores in from one more SAT or ACT.

[Nan in Mass]

Many of us focus on giving our child the best education we can manage (both academically, non-academically, and financially), making sure that what we DO do is documented and the academic skills are validated (standardized testing, outside classes, or whatever), that we keep general college admission requirements in mind, and then when the time comes, THEN decide which colleges are a good fit, academically, nonacademically, and financially. BUT BUT BUT this only works well if the student doesn't fall in love with a particular college AND AND AND if the student is versitile enough to be able to survive and get themselves a good education where ever they land. That last was the problem for my particular children. Many people have trouble with the first.

 

Nan

[Ann.without.an.e]

Chapel Hill's early decision is NOT binding.  Since we didn't qualify for any financial aid, I can't say for sure when they send that out.  But I see only "pros" to applying there early since the admission percentage is generally higher than for regular decision applicants.  I assume, but don't know for sure, that the same would be true at NCSU.  The only kids I know who wait to apply to UNC or State are almost always kids who need a little more time to improve their GPA or get scores in from one more SAT or ACT.

 

 

Thanks for alerting me to this.  I was unaware.  Duke meets 100% of real need so I guess we could apply ED there too if she likes it?  She may prefer CH or State though?

[nancy in nj]

Also, intended major does NOT affect admissions at Chapel Hill.  All of the professional programs, Business School, J-School, Public Health, are by application during your 2nd year at Chapel Hill.  The only exceptions are the Guarantee Admittance offered for select admitted students.  I forget what they call it, but they send out an invitation for special programs which includes the guaranteed admission programs to top admitted students and students pick their top 3 choices--then the programs select from those students to offer the guaranteed admissions.

 

I think entering/winning writing contests would be a great addition to strengthen your dd's applications.  My dd was the NC state winner of a major essay contest, and I am sure it helped--especially with the scholarship day and honors program invites at Chapel Hill.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

again....bad wording, I edited.  I just mean the over-the-top competitive stuff that you hear about for those who get big merit scholarships.  We won't have that.  One of the main reasons...money, money, money.

 

DD gets catalog after catalog in the mail about summer programs and she drools but we just can't.  She is limited because of finances.  We can't produce a transcript where she has "done" a lot...all we can do is show who she is and her academics.  She mentors a group of middle school girls, she is a self taught artist (and she is talented), she is taking AP classes and she will take some SAT sub tests for validity but other than that we don't have anything big and merit worthy.  If that makes sense?  She has great standardized tests grades.  That's about it.

 

ETA - I wrote this before your last reply. 

 

I'm really not sure how the summer programs are viewed.  Some offer college credit, but many don't.  A great deal of the summer program offers coming through the mail at our house give my kids the opportunity to spend $5000 or more for a couple weeks at a college, with no college credit.  For $5000 I could do an awful lot, including take that same kid on a trip to Europe or Asia.  

 

I have read that some admissions offices look at these programs as bought experiences.  I think in many cases that characterization is also unfair.  But there is a bit of truth to it.

 

Personally, I think the middle school mentoring is great and I would want to hear more about that if I were interviewing her.  I would also be interested in reading a letter of recommendation from someone who was in a position to have observed her in that role.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

So getting into chapel hill, state, etc...

 

What is dd lacking?

She takes rigorous classes

She will have SAT sub tests and AP scores

Her standardized test scores will be competitive

She has her art

She leads a group of 5th-6th grade girls

 

What is she missing? What gap do we need to fill? She loves to write so I thought about encouraging her to enter some writing contests?

 

And here is the question I probably shouldn't asked here...do I need to put her in PS? Are the only homeschooled kids who get into these schools ones who have built rocket ships and fed third world countries? Does getting in as a homeschooler require as much as if you were aiming for merit as a public schooler? I get that feeling when I read comments on here sometimes :/

 

When I get frustrated and worried that my kids won't be accepted anywhere we can afford to send them or at a school that I consider worthy academically I try to remember the situation of some of my friends' kids.

 

Homeschooled from 1st grade on.  No AP courses or exams.  One had an outside calculus course.  Science labs were done in a small group that the mom mentored.  I don't think there were subject tests.  No scouting.  

 

One played soccer all through school, but was not on an elite level.  The other traveled on a couple short term missions trips and also competed in the Poetry Out Loud competition (representing the small state they lived in at the national competition). 

 

One was accepted to a smallish LAC in the Pacific Northwest, and received a significant scholarship.

The other attended a very good but not flagship state school.  He did ROTC and based on his academics and leadership as a college student, he received a scholarship for his final two years of college.  

 

Neither would probably have been accepted at schools in the most competitive category.  But they went to good schools, where they had opportunities to work with good instructors, grow as adults and have doors opened to them as a consequence of their hard work, work ethic and leadership.  

 

 

I think it is so easy (for me at least) to consider only what isn't likely to happen.  I'm not likely to send a kid to an Ivy league or most competitive level school (one might be a good candidate, but I know how fierce the competition is).  But I also know that I've been surrounded by people who are doing great things in their field, not because of what college they were accepted to, but because of what they did in college and what they did after graduation.  

[creekland]

So getting into chapel hill, state, etc...

 

What is dd lacking?

She takes rigorous classes

She will have SAT sub tests and AP scores

Her standardized test scores will be competitive

She has her art

She leads a group of 5th-6th grade girls

 

What is she missing? What gap do we need to fill? She loves to write so I thought about encouraging her to enter some writing contests?

 

Ok, I'm back and with more time at this point.

 

All of what you listed is good.  Writing or art contests (esp if she wins something) are also good.  

 

The one thing that otherwise comes to my mind is volunteering.  Is there anything she has done for that either on a regular basis or single "events?"  Kids at our school who go to more selective colleges tend to do something like this.  It can be tutoring.  It can be leading therapeutic riders on horseback.  It can be work trips via their churches.  It can be soup kitchens or the local animal shelter.

 

My homeschooled guys came up with a unique one that I'll share in case anyone wants to steal the idea.  

 

Through their church and community groups they put on a benefit dinner for microfinance in Haiti (two separate dinners, two years apart).  The dinner was a hunger banquet and each table had 10 seats.  Colored tickets were drawn.  One person got a very nice dinner - their choice of a couple of entrees, but equivalent to what one would get at a nice restaurant and served on a real plate, etc.  Four people got rice, beans, and a vegetable, and a roll on a paper plate with water to drink.  Five had rice and a small amount of a vegetable on a paper plate with water to drink.  It was all luck of the draw and demonstrated the proportions (more or less) of how the world eats.

 

The dinner was explained by my guys while it was being served.  Guests had no idea (except for those who went to both).  They also had a slide show playing showing scenes from Haiti and success stories from the microfinance group 100% of the donations went to (Hope International).  After dinner that slide show became a more attentive (short) show with words and slides (powerpoint) that told the story directly.  Then there was a speaker (who had been to Haiti).

 

The dinner was free to all who came.  Donation baskets were on the table if anyone chose to give.  All food was donated and all workers donated their time.  The church (a big place) donated the space and tables, etc.  My guys coordinated 100% of it and were the emcees.  It cost them essentially nothing but time and effort - maybe a little bit for getting the word spread, etc.  They raised a significant amount of money and opened the eyes up to many as to what was going on in Haiti both before and after the earthquake.  By choosing a microfinance group, they feel the money was directed as best it could be.

 

They did this as a service project for homeschooling and I'm super proud of them for all they accomplished.  The dinners were really, really nicely done.

 

But it also worked well as an EC on their college apps.  Colleges they interviewed with asked them about it and seemed impressed.  It did show what they were capable of doing from concept to production - not just pure academics.

[8filltheheart]

Ok, I'm back and with more time at this point.

 

All of what you listed is good. Writing or art contests (esp if she wins something) are also good.

 

The one thing that otherwise comes to my mind is volunteering. Is there anything she has done for that either on a regular basis or single "events?" Kids at our school who go to more selective colleges tend to do something like this. It can be tutoring. It can be leading therapeutic riders on horseback. It can be work trips via their churches. It can be soup kitchens or the local animal shelter.

 

My homeschooled guys came up with a unique one that I'll share in case anyone wants to steal the idea.

 

Through their church and community groups they put on a benefit dinner for microfinance in Haiti (two separate dinners, two years apart). The dinner was a hunger banquet and each table had 10 seats. Colored tickets were drawn. One person got a very nice dinner - their choice of a couple of entrees, but equivalent to what one would get at a nice restaurant and served on a real plate, etc. Four people got rice, beans, and a vegetable, and a roll on a paper plate with water to drink. Five had rice and a small amount of a vegetable on a paper plate with water to drink. It was all luck of the draw and demonstrated the proportions (more or less) of how the world eats.

 

The dinner was explained by my guys while it was being served. Guests had no idea (except for those who went to both). They also had a slide show playing showing scenes from Haiti and success stories from the microfinance group 100% of the donations went to (Hope International). After dinner that slide show became a more attentive (short) show with words and slides (powerpoint) that told the story directly. Then there was a speaker (who had been to Haiti).

 

The dinner was free to all who came. Donation baskets were on the table if anyone chose to give. All food was donated and all workers donated their time. The church (a big place) donated the space and tables, etc. My guys coordinated 100% of it and were the emcees. It cost them essentially nothing but time and effort - maybe a little bit for getting the word spread, etc. They raised a significant amount of money and opened the eyes up to many as to what was going on in Haiti both before and after the earthquake. By choosing a microfinance group, they feel the money was directed as best it could be.

 

They did this as a service project for homeschooling and I'm super proud of them for all they accomplished. The dinners were really, really nicely done.

 

But it also worked well as an EC on their college apps. Colleges they interviewed with asked them about it and seemed impressed. It did show what they were capable of doing from concept to production - not just pure academics.

I love this idea. What an excellent idea for a fund raiser!

[JanetC]

I didn't want to completely hijack Joanne's thread ;)

 

This was my finding...

 

Ok so here are my thoughts....WHY in the world are we worried about 'going over the top' for merit aid?  If she is okay with a loan of up to $5,500 a year then she can probably go somewhere for not much more than that?  I just need to focus on getting her into college and not so much worry about the aid.  She's smart, it will probably take care of itself.  or am I missing something? Is there anything I need to know? 

 

If you look at the admit rates and test scores at a school like Wake Forest, then just getting in to Wake Forest is almost the same as "going over the top for merit aid" at a less selective school.

 

Even some state schools want kids who go "over the top."  For example:

 

http://www.educatedquest.com/senior-year-important-year-high-school-transcript/

 

With your EFC, you may be sweating to get in to some of these generous schools that you compared, and you may be sweating to see your financial and merit awards at whatever safety schools you choose.  It's just going to be a hard wait after acceptances and before your FAFSA and CSS (if needed) are evaluated by the schools.  However, if she does get in to places like the names you listed, her need-based aid should be good.

 

It is obvious that you are working hard and your DD is bright. Your APs and SAT subject tests are great, especially if they bring in good numbers.  Your ECs are unique and she sounds like a wonderful kid.  Your paperwork (essays, counselor letter, transcrpt) will need to show these off to good effect, and then you'll just have to wait and see.

 

Nan's advice to not fall in love with a particular school and to encourage your kids to be determined to bloom where they are planted is spot-on.

 

I have also heard that ED is only for the wealthy.  I do not know how that plays out at a school that meets 100% of need, but certainly only the wealthy should apply ED to any school that does not. 

[creekland]

I love this idea. What an excellent idea for a fund raiser!

 

Anyone can feel free to steal/borrow/whatever the idea.  My guys originally got the basic format - not exact format - from somewhere online, then adjusted it to fit what they wanted at the time.  I mention it here with more details in case anyone wants to get ideas from it.  Our world benefits when we share ideas.  ;)

[8filltheheart]

Just some thoughts spurred by all of the replies. Your dd is doing herself a disfavor by thinking in terms of not wanting to attend any of the schools with high merit$$ for NMF/S. She needs to have at least 1 financial safety.....a school she can afford to attend and she would be happy attending. Putting all of applications into the competitive basket means she has no way of relaxing and saying that she can always attend X b/c she can both afford it and she is OK with it.

 

High SAT scores and APs are common amg ALL strong applicants. Whether or not the "everything else" is enough, that is the million dollar question. You just don't know until it is often too late to apply to schools with the good scholarship offers.

 

And likeSebastian's description, lots of top students excel at the lower ranked schools. Our oldest attended a school that didn't care that he had 18 hrs of DE credit b/c he would have been accepted without it. The hours enabled him to graduate in 6 full semesters and 1 summer session. His school was not selective, but he has a great career as a chemE.

 

So definitely apply to the top schools b/c they look very affordable for your dd. But, apply to those scholarship heavy schools, too. Then you know she'll be ok no matter what. (And agreeing, don't let her fall in love with a dream. It isn't a dream. It is a school. More than one path will lead toward the same outcome.)

[Ann.without.an.e]

When I get frustrated and worried that my kids won't be accepted anywhere we can afford to send them or at a school that I consider worthy academically I try to remember the situation of some of my friends' kids.

 

Homeschooled from 1st grade on.  No AP courses or exams.  One had an outside calculus course.  Science labs were done in a small group that the mom mentored.  I don't think there were subject tests.  No scouting.  

 

One played soccer all through school, but was not on an elite level.  The other traveled on a couple short term missions trips and also competed in the Poetry Out Loud competition (representing the small state they lived in at the national competition). 

 

One was accepted to a smallish LAC in the Pacific Northwest, and received a significant scholarship.

The other attended a very good but not flagship state school.  He did ROTC and based on his academics and leadership as a college student, he received a scholarship for his final two years of college.  

 

Neither would probably have been accepted at schools in the most competitive category.  But they went to good schools, where they had opportunities to work with good instructors, grow as adults and have doors opened to them as a consequence of their hard work, work ethic and leadership.  

 

 

I think it is so easy (for me at least) to consider only what isn't likely to happen.  I'm not likely to send a kid to an Ivy league or most competitive level school (one might be a good candidate, but I know how fierce the competition is).  But I also know that I've been surrounded by people who are doing great things in their field, not because of what college they were accepted to, but because of what they did in college and what they did after graduation.  

 

 

Thank you for this.  It helps :)

[Ann.without.an.e]

To answer several concerns about the difficulty of our current school list (sorry I can't seem to multi quote)

 

We need to find safety schools.  I know this.  We just haven't found any yet.  When I run numbers there is a huge gap financially.  I ran numbers for two private schools with less expectations and it will leave dd in debt over $20,000 a year.  Unless they have great merit aid and she qualifies for that?  How do we know that though? I need to do more research.

 

I considered having her visit a state school or two that isn't so competitive in order to have that as a safety?  Maybe Appalachian?  I definitely want safety schools and I don't view the competitive schools as safety schools.  I was originally looking at NC State as a safety but then ya'll clued me in ;) 

 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Just some thoughts spurred by all of the replies. Your dd is doing herself a disfavor by thinking in terms of not wanting to attend any of the schools with high merit$$ for NMF/S. She needs to have at least 1 financial safety.....a school she can afford to attend and she would be happy attending. Putting all of applications into the competitive basket means she has no way of relaxing and saying that she can always attend X b/c she can both afford it and she is OK with it.

 

 

If she gets NMF then she will be choose a school that offers a free ride to list.  One thing that is limiting our college search in general is she prefers to stay within a 4 hour drive of home and none of those schools are close to home.  BUT, she will choose one as a financial safety if she gets it.  It would be silly not to, right?  ;) 

[Nan in Mass]

We had the problem of there not really being very many schools that met youngest's requirements. He wanted engineering, within a few hours of home. I refused to insist he apply to a large city campus (like BU or Northeastern) when he didn't think he'd survive there. That left us with limited choices. That CAN happen, even in an area with lots of schools. The result was that he didn't really have an academic safety that he wasn't very unhappy with. UMass Amherst was his financial safety, not a very good one, financially. His academic safety (and a place I thought he might receive a scholarship) was a long drive away, not a happy thing at all. Neither were really good choices. He might have survived the huge UMass campus. At least it isn't in a city, even if it is practically a city all by itself, to us anyway. I'm not sure he would have survived being far from home. (UMass wasn't a good academic safety partly because of the situation with Mass public colleges and homeschoolers.) I don't have any advice. I just wanted to sympathize with the problem of not being able to find good safeties. People often make it sound very easy. I think they have more robust children than I do. : )

 

Nan

[Ann.without.an.e]

We had the problem of there not really being very many schools that met youngest's requirements. He wanted engineering, within a few hours of home. I refused to insist he apply to a large city campus (like BU or Northeastern) when he didn't think he'd survive there. That left us with limited choices. That CAN happen, even in an area with lots of schools. The result was that he didn't really have an academic safety that he wasn't very unhappy with. UMass Amherst was his financial safety, not a very good one, financially. His academic safety (and a place I thought he might receive a scholarship) was a long drive away, not a happy thing at all. Neither were really good choices. He might have survived the huge UMass campus. At least it isn't in a city, even if it is practically a city all by itself, to us anyway. I'm not sure he would have survived being far from home. (UMass wasn't a good academic safety partly because of the situation with Mass public colleges and homeschoolers.) I don't have any advice. I just wanted to sympathize with the problem of not being able to find good safeties. People often make it sound very easy. I think they have more robust children than I do. : )

 

Nan

 

 

Thanks for sympathizing.  I wish there were schools closer to us with good national merit scholarships.  If she even gets NM?  She may not?  You can't bank on anything at this point.  Especially with a completely revised test coming in the fall. 

She doesn't want to go too far.  I think the feeling that she could technically come home on a long weekend is comforting for her.  I think the closest NM school to us would be U of KY which is huge, right?  It is like 7 hours away.

[Pawz4me]

I think the whole process is almost always full of trade-offs, no matter your kid's stats or your financial situation.  You just have to go with the trade-offs your kid and your finances can best deal with.

[Hoggirl]

If she gets NMF then she will be choose a school that offers a free ride to list. One thing that is limiting our college search in general is she prefers to stay within a 4 hour drive of home and none of those schools are close to home. BUT, she will choose one as a financial safety if she gets it. It would be silly not to, right? ;)

I don't know where you are located in NC, but I think it's about six hours (farther than you would like, but still not *that* far) from Lexington, KY to Charlotte, NC. Scroll down on this page to see the NMF scholarships. Tuition, room & board, + a stipend, iPad, etc. Is she a basketball fan? ;)

 

http://www.uky.edu/financialaid/scholarship-incoming-freshmen

[Nan in Mass]

Charleigh, my impression is that if she is an NM possible (in other words, that level academically), there is a good chance that other non-NM schools will offer her a good deal. Hopefully one of those is closer to home. We've had a number of disasters in my extended family with children at un-near schools who would have been fine if they had been able to be visited or visit more frequently, so the near-far thing is something I treat with respect. A good school is no good at all if the student can't stay there. A cheap school isn't cheap if the student can't stay there, either. Or finish in 4 years. Or manage the requirements of the scholarship. A scholarship that requires a 3.5 isn't something we wanted for ours. They like to try different things. Sometimes those turn out to be unexpectedly unmanagable. That means there will be the occasional bad grade. Mine would struggle to get a 3.5 under the easiest of circumstances, I think. But then again, we can afford to send ours someplace where they aren't tied down by a gpa requirement. Given the choice between a 3.5 requirement and no college at all, I'd encourage them to give it a try. That isn't a choice here, though, because community college then transfering to a commutable state college is perfectly possible for us. That was the real safety. Not a good option because the commute to the state 4-year engineering would be like an hour each way, but a good start, anyway. Our cc is very good at some things and not good at others, so not optimal but possible. Better than trying for that 3.5 gpa, anyway. The point of all that is that if you have a reasonable community college within easy reach, THAT might be your financial safety. It might make it possible to apply to other more desirable places on spec, anyway.

 

Nan