How can I vote for Obama if

[Plucky]

I worry about the Supreme Court Justices changing and then losing my Right to Bear Arms. This is a real concern for me.

 

I've got other issues, too, but this is one I can easily pinpoint (I could start an exact thread about McCain and NAFTA *shudder*).

[Krista in LA]

I worry about the Supreme Court Justices changing and then losing my Right to Bear Arms. This is a real concern for me.

 

I've got other issues, too, but this is one I can easily pinpoint (I could start an exact thread about McCain and NAFTA *shudder*).

 

You can't. From everything that I've read, Obama doesn't think that citizens should be able to own/carry guns. This is a deal breaker for me. Of course McCain isn't as supportive of such things as one might think either. The NRA gave him a C+ which is pretty low for a "conservative."

 

I'm not voting for either one of them.

[Parrothead]

That would be a deal breaker for me.

[Plucky]

I am so upset with Bush that he went around the law and allowed trucks from Mexico to deliver in our country. I can't vote for anyone it seems. These seem like small things to others but they are in my top 10 issues.

 

I'm a moderate but I swing conservative on some things and liberal on others. I literally don't have anyone to vote for. :(

 

I'd really like to pick one of them otherwise it's like flushing my vote.

[astrid]

I worry about the Supreme Court Justices changing and then losing my Right to Bear Arms. This is a real concern for me.

 

I've got other issues, too, but this is one I can easily pinpoint (I could start an exact thread about McCain and NAFTA *shudder*).

 

Taken from ontheissues.org :

 

Barack Obama on Gun Control Democratic nomine for President; Junior Senator (IL)Click here for 11 full quotes by Barack Obama OR click here for Barack Obama on other issues.

• Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)

• FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)

• Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)

• Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)

• 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)

• Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)

• Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)

• Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)

• Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)

• Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)

• Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

 

Doesn't seem to indicate that he's going to amend the Bill of Rights to me.

 

Astrid

[Plucky]

But it's not exactly in his power is it (correct me if I'm wrong)? More liberal Supreme Court Justices tend to vote against the Right to Bear Arms. They may rule in other ways I like but this is something that is important to me. :)

[astrid]

But it's not exactly in his power is it (correct me if I'm wrong)? More liberal Supreme Court Justices tend to vote against the Right to Bear Arms. They may rule in other ways I like but this is something that is important to me. :)

 

No, it's not in his power, that's my point. And again, I seriously doubt that rights as empassioned as the right to bear arms would be overturned. I know you'll all disagree with me, but I just don't see it happening. But I've been accused of being an optimist before! ;)

 

Astrid

[JudyJudyJudy]

You can't. From everything that I've read, Obama doesn't think that citizens should be able to own/carry guns.

Really? That's not what his website says:

 

PROTECTING GUN RIGHTS

Respect the Second Amendment: Millions of hunters and shooters own and use guns each year. Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Taken from ontheissues.org :

 

Barack Obama on Gun Control Democratic nomine for President; Junior Senator (IL)Click here for 11 full quotes by Barack Obama OR click here for Barack Obama on other issues.

 

• Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)

• FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)

• Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)

• Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)

• 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)

• Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)

• Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)

• Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)

• Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)

• Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)

• Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

Doesn't seem to indicate that he's going to amend the Bill of Rights to me.

 

Astrid

Thank you! I totally agree.

[Mrs Mungo]

There are too many gun-toting Southern Democrats that the party relies on. There's no way he'll try to force a gun ban.

[astrid]

There are too many gun-toting Southern Democrats that the party relies on. There's no way he'll try to force a gun ban.

 

Yep. It's more scare-tactic, partisan fear-mongering.

 

astrid

[my4boysmom]

You can't. From everything that I've read, Obama doesn't think that citizens should be able to own/carry guns. This is a deal breaker for me. Of course McCain isn't as supportive of such things as one might think either. The NRA gave him a C+ which is pretty low for a "conservative."

 

I'm not voting for either one of them.

 

Well I may get in trouble for saying this but I live in Arizona and he has done nothing for us in Arizona. I haven't voted for him for quite a while but he's a democrat in drag. This is not a comment about democrats it just means he is more liberal then he protrays. I don't want either one but I will vote.. shudder.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Well I may get in trouble for saying this but I live in Arizona and he has done nothing for us in Arizona. I haven't voted for him for quite a while but he's a democrat in drag. This is not a comment about democrats it just means he is more liberal then he protrays. I don't want either one but I will vote.. shudder.

Don't push him off on us. We don't want him! :tongue_smilie:

[Spy Car]

Why do people think it is ok to just flat out lie about Barack Obama's positions? :glare:

 

In no way does he want to over-turn the 2nd Amendment.

 

Since when is it unreasonable to make sure we keep guns (especially things like assault weapons) out of the hands of criminal? These are just common sense positions any right minded person should support.

 

But rather than dealing with reality too many seem ready to misrepresent, smear, and distort a fine man's positions. It's dishonest, and, frankly, not nice.

 

Bill

[Plucky]

I don't see anyone lying here. They are stating what they know. I do worry about the 2nd Amendment and I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I also don't have a problem keeping guns out of the hands of criminals but limiting law abiding citizens rights don't do that.

 

I was hoping this wouldn't be a debate about gun ownership. I don't appreciate your response to my honest question. Answer the question but don't be reactive.

[Plucky]

With all respect Astrid I'm not so sure. I do need to do more research on it though. Thanks for sharing.

[Spy Car]

I don't see anyone lying here. They are stating what they know. I do worry about the 2nd Amendment and I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I also don't have a problem keeping guns out of the hands of criminals but limiting law abiding citizens rights don't do that.

 

I was hoping this wouldn't be a debate about gun ownership. I don't appreciate your response to my honest question. Answer the question but don't be reactive.

 

Elaine, others have stated Barack Obama does not believe Americans should be allowed to own guns. This is not true.

 

I'm sorry if If it sounds like I'm being "reactive" but this isn't the first thread where Mr Obama's views have been very falsely misstated.

 

You have no cause to believe your 2nd Amendment rights are at risk if he is elected president. He does NOT oppose gun ownership.

 

Bill

[Peek a Boo]

But it's not exactly in his power is it (correct me if I'm wrong)? More liberal Supreme Court Justices tend to vote against the Right to Bear Arms. They may rule in other ways I like but this is something that is important to me. :)

 

 

bingo.

 

it is not a scare tactic to point out that a guy who supposedly supports an individual's right to carry a gun is also in support of gun BANS and supportive of letting local cities institute gun BANS on an individual's Constitutional right to carry.

 

per the list given:

 

Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)

....even if they determine to take away an Honest Citizen's right to own and carry.

 

 

FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)

BAN. against criminals only??

 

 

Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)

...translation: "respect" 2d amendment only so far as he agrees with it. interpretations abound on this one. again --does this only apply to criminals? or will people who "just" carry guns be deemed criminals under these bans???

 

Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)

....that makes "common sense" subjectively determined by those who are enforcing. If they are interpreting the 2d amendment in a "bans are ok" way then that "common sense" is going to be strictly defined.

 

 

2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)

Is that in the second amendment??? or does it LIMIT an individual's right in the 2d amendment?? or is this only for criminals??

 

Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)

....so he only respects the second amendment's right to bear arms to certain people that he deems worthy. and just being an Honest Citizen doesn't cut it. I missed that part of the 2d amendment.....

 

Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)

I'm all for enforcing the law. As long as it doesn't infringe a non-criminal's rights per the second amendment. Criminals lose that right. Honest citizens shouldn't.

 

Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)

 

"keep guns out" --another ban. only on criminals???

 

Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)

 

again --only against criminals, or against Honest Citizens too??

 

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

so it's ok to sue someone that didn't commit the crime and legally distributed a product.

 

Second Amendment stuff isn't really an issue for me, but it would be a STRETCH to say Obama supports fully the second amendment with all the bans he supports and has voted for. he won't overturn it, he'll just choose the strictest interpretation and keep redefining it and say that's what it Always Meant.

 

to say that they only want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals is a lie. Those bans apply not only to criminals but to honest citizens who have never held a gun.

 

gun toting Southern Democrats?

frog. water. boiling.

[Peek a Boo]

Elaine, others have stated Barack Obama does not believe Americans should be allowed to own guns. This is not true.

 

I'm sorry if If it sounds like I'm being "reactive" but this isn't the first thread where Mr Obama's views have been very falsely misstated.

 

You have no cause to believe your 2nd Amendment rights are at risk if he is elected president. He does NOT oppose gun ownership.

 

Bill

 

would you like to explain what a BAN is??

[astrid]

With all respect Astrid I'm not so sure. I do need to do more research on it though. Thanks for sharing.

 

Well, he flatly denies it on his website (see post from JudyJudyJudy, above) so aside from it coming straight from the horse's mouth, I don't know what else can convince you.

 

Respectfully and gently, perhaps you don't really want to be convinced otherwise, and would prefer to continue believing what, from all I've read and from Obama's own statements, is untrue.

 

All Best,

Astrid

[Plucky]

Well, he flatly denies it on his website (see post from JudyJudyJudy, above) so aside from it coming straight from the horse's mouth, I don't know what else can convince you.

 

Respectfully and gently, perhaps you don't really want to be convinced otherwise, and would prefer to continue believing what, from all I've read and from Obama's own statements, is untrue.

 

All Best,

Astrid

 

Gee Astrid, because I don't instantly change my mind based on a message board I don't want to be convinced otherwise? I asked a question. I'm uncertain who I'm going to vote for and I am finally at a place to start researching it - yeah, I'm late.

 

I'm basing most of my concern on the very fact that the Supreme Court just ruled on 2nd Amendment rights and it was a very close call. I'm sorry if I cannot just believe a *politician* when they post something to their websites. Politicians lie. They always have. I need more convincing evidence than that but I'm obviously not going to get it here.

 

I'm really surprised at your response.

[Peek a Boo]

Well, he flatly denies it on his website (see post from JudyJudyJudy, above) so aside from it coming straight from the horse's mouth, I don't know what else can convince you.

 

His actions, for one.

The man has voted repeatedly for BANS --for limiting the right of honest, non-criminal citizens to bear arms.

 

or maybe he thought the second amendment is about BARE arms. :glare:

[Kelli in TN]

 

or maybe he thought the second amendment is about BARE arms. :glare:

 

:confused:

 

What is that supposed to mean?

[astrid]

Gee Astrid, because I don't instantly change my mind based on a message board I don't want to be convinced otherwise? I asked a question. I'm uncertain who I'm going to vote for and I am finally at a place to start researching it - yeah, I'm late.

 

I'm basing most of my concern on the very fact that the Supreme Court just ruled on 2nd Amendment rights and it was a very close call. I'm sorry if I cannot just believe a *politician* when they post something to their websites. Politicians lie. They always have. I need more convincing evidence than that but I'm obviously not going to get it here.

 

I'm really surprised at your response.

 

 

Uh, I think maybe you misunderstood me. I KNOW politicians lie..... but so do most of the other pundits who are running their mouths during these past 18 years (seems like it, but it's only been months!) of the current campaign. All I'm saying is that so many things have been posted here that are just flat-out wrong.....I'm thinking of the "Do we want a president who thinks its okay to let babies die?" thread a while back. The pundits and everyone else can speculate all we want about what will happen in the future, but we don't have a crystal ball. We can only educate ourselves the best we can and formulate an opinion, which is what you were trying to do with your post. There are tons of opinions out there but for my money, regardless of the candidate, and without a handy crystal ball, the best we can do is take their word for it, because it DOES come from their platform; it's not somebody's spin on it.

 

And seriously, I'm starting to get the feeling, (call me paranoid!) that threads are being started here for the sole purpose of baiting those of us who support Obama. I just dont' see the same types of threads about McCain. But maybe I've missed them.

 

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear; but I mean you (nor anyone else!) any disrespect; that's not my style, which I think you know by your surprise at my post! :001_smile:

 

Really......I meant no disrespect. Honestly.

 

Astrid

[Peek a Boo]

:confused:

 

What is that supposed to mean?

 

 

maybe i shoulda used the eye-roll guy instead.

 

it means I think he knows EXACTLY how limiting his "respect" for the second amendment is but is willing to try to spin his support for it despite his numerous votes for bans to own/bear arms on non-criminal citizens.

 

does that answer your question? ;)

[my4boysmom]

I'm a conservative and well my problem is the church he belonged to for 20 years bashing racial tones and his wife talking about being american or ashamed of it. If you can't be proud to be an American no matter whom is the president and no matter which party they are involved with then why even be involved with the race to begin with. I have issues with that let alone the right to bear arms. What is he afraid of anyways? I'm not going to go to religeous views but that has something to do with it for me and don't get me started on everything else. I'm truly being toned down but his wife really upsets me. I'm far from his party. Yikes... there my mouth goes ..... sorry

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm a conservative and well my problem is the church he belonged to for 20 years bashing racial tones and his wife talking about being american or ashamed of it. If you can't be proud to be an American no matter whom is the president and no matter which party they are involved with then why even be involved with the race to begin with.

 

Have you ever known anyone who came from the inner city? Have you ever spoken to someone who spent their life fighting racism? Have you ever attended a predominantly black church? I, personally, think fighting for the poor on the South side of Chicago, whether they were black or white, fighting against racism, fighting to give a black community a sense of pride in itself is something of which one can be proud.

 

As far as Michelle Obama's comment, even Laura Bush defended her.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/MOattackad

[JudyJudyJudy]

What is he afraid of anyways? I'm not going to go to religeous views but that has something to do with it for me and don't get me started on everything else.

If you're not going to "go to religious views," then why even bring them up? I truly am confused here anyway. I honestly don't understand your post.

[5kidsforME]

I'm a conservative and well my problem is the church he belonged to for 20 years bashing racial tones and his wife talking about being american or ashamed of it. If you can't be proud to be an American no matter whom is the president and no matter which party they are involved with then why even be involved with the race to begin with. I have issues with that let alone the right to bear arms. What is he afraid of anyways? I'm not going to go to religeous views but that has something to do with it for me and don't get me started on everything else. I'm truly being toned down but his wife really upsets me. I'm far from his party. Yikes... there my mouth goes ..... sorry

 

I don't understand a lot of your post, can you clarify a little?

[5kidsforME]

If you're not going to "go to religious views," then why even bring them up? I truly am confused here anyway. I honestly don't understand your post.

 

Whoops, should have waited and read further.

[Michelle in MO]

No, it's not in his power, that's my point. And again, I seriously doubt that rights as empassioned as the right to bear arms would be overturned. I know you'll all disagree with me, but I just don't see it happening. But I've been accused of being an optimist before! ;)

 

Astrid

 

to overturn Supreme Court decrees, but it is certainly in their power to appoint justices that will support their own politics.

 

SCOTUS recently upheld the right for private citizens to bear arms; the vote was 5-4, I believe, with the 5 more conservative justices upholding the right for private citizens to bear arms and the 4 more liberal justices voting against it. The reasoning behind upholding the right for private citizens to bear arms is because the rest of the Bill of Rights clearly gives individuals rights to things like freedom of speech, press, religion, assembly, etc. Hence, SCOTUS interpreted the 2nd Amendment as upholding individual rights, not merely the right of states to support a militia.

[Jean too]

You can see how he has voted here http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490

[astrid]

Yup, I understand all of that too. Again, I just feel, like Mrs. Mungo, that there are too many outside forces which will be brought to bear on this issue. It's not going to happen, IMHO.

 

astrid

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Well if that is your make it or break it issue then you can't vote for him. However, I don't think it would be that simple for a president to single handedly change something written into the constitution.

 

Well, she definitely can't vote for him if she opposes serious restrictions on the sale of AK-47's. But she probably could if she opposes serious restrictions on handguns and rifles (with applicable permits and concealed carry licenses).

[Krista in LA]

Well, there are lots of other places on the web where you can find out what he really thinks and how he has voted rather than what he is saying to try to get votes....

 

I'm quite certain I heard, from his mouth, that he does not support the right to carry a concealed weapon. In addition, he has said that although he supports the 2nd amendment, it's okay for local gun bans. Either the 2nd amendment is our right or it is not, a local gun ban would violate that right.

 

From http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban

 

Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:

a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.

b. ban assault weapons? Yes.

c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."

[WTMindy]

I'm a conservative and well my problem is the church he belonged to for 20 years bashing racial tones and his wife talking about being american or ashamed of it. If you can't be proud to be an American no matter whom is the president and no matter which party they are involved with then why even be involved with the race to begin with. I have issues with that let alone the right to bear arms. What is he afraid of anyways? I'm not going to go to religeous views but that has something to do with it for me and don't get me started on everything else. I'm truly being toned down but his wife really upsets me. I'm far from his party. Yikes... there my mouth goes ..... sorry

 

This is a HUGE issue for my husband too.

 

For me, it is so much more about who the actual president is. It is very much about who they will appoint to the supreme court (which in my opinion means that the balance of power is out of whack). I think what the original poster was saying was NOT whether Obama supports gun control, but whether he would apoint liberal judges to the supreme court who would restrict freedoms. This is a huge concern of mine as well. Not necessarily in that one issue, but in others.

[Krista in LA]

Why do people think it is ok to just flat out lie about Barack Obama's positions? :glare:

 

In no way does he want to over-turn the 2nd Amendment.

 

Since when is it unreasonable to make sure we keep guns (especially things like assault weapons) out of the hands of criminal? These are just common sense positions any right minded person should support.

 

But rather than dealing with reality too many seem ready to misrepresent, smear, and distort a fine man's positions. It's dishonest, and, frankly, not nice.

 

Bill

 

Bill, I don't believe he wants to overturn it. I think he wants to legislate it out of existence. Many law makers, at all different levels, have tried to pass laws making it harder for law abiding citizens to buy and/or carry a gun. I don't believe I have said any lies about him, just that I can't vote for a man with his record on this issue. And I'm certain that I heard him say (not second hand) that he did not support a persons right to carry a concealed weapon.

[Parabola]

FWIW, he said in his speech last night that he did not want to "Take away" (as if he could) people's right to own guns. What he is aiming for (as a poster already said) is to get the Ak47s and machine guns and that kind of weaponry out of the hands of criminals. Thats his position, right now, as he runs for president.

 

I have a hard time with voting records, because so often many different issues are gathered together in a single bill. Its hard to tell what a candidate is voting for in that bill or what they are voting against. I'm not saying this is always the case, I'm just kind of making a general observation.

 

Obama isn't going to take away guns, in any way. Even if he gets to appoint Supreme Court justices, this will not be an issue. I'm voting democrat and I don't want the 2nd amendment messed with. Just because one is voting for Obama doesn't mean one wants gun rights abolished. Most of us just want a happy medium. Guns for protection and hunting are fine. Over the top guns for killing people are not. So don't lump democrats into a big ol' bag of "they want to take away our guns". Its wrong. Its wrong. Its wrong. Its wrong.

 

Back to the SC justices, again as someone said, the desire to leave the 2nd amendment alone, among democrats, republicans, and independents, and many others, is tooooooo stroooooonnng. They are not going to take away guns.

 

Oh, and McCain is a far cry from a democrat. He's a moderate, right-leaning conservative (in the new sense of that word).

[pqr]

Well, she definitely can't vote for him if she opposes serious restrictions on the sale of AK-47's. But she probably could if she opposes serious restrictions on handguns and rifles (with applicable permits and concealed carry licenses).

 

I am sorry, I was intending to keep out of this thread but comments like the above just drive me nuts. They exemplify a base lack of understanding that leads to the 60 second soundbite and catch words.

 

The AK-47 is a fully automatic assault rifle, the restrictions on purchasing one require, if you were able, are

 

1. You live in a state that allows ownership

2. You pay to the Federal Government a $200 tax (above all other costs)

3. You get your local sherrif to sign a document that allows you to own one

4. You pass a background check by the BATF (this can take six months)

5. You come up with over $7,000

6. You have to have copies of all relevant paperwork whenever you remove the firearm from its mandated safe

7. You have to report to the police every time the firearm crosses a state line

8. You have to ensure that it is legal in the state you transit

9. You have to find one of an incredibly small number that are for sale

 

there are other loops to jump through. For all but a very small number it simply can not be done.

 

Now if you want to purchase a semi-automatic rifle that looks like an AK-47 that is far easier, but what you then have is a semi-automatic rifle that is little different from many hunting or sporting rifles other than it LOOKS like something else.

 

The so called "Assault weapon ban" did not ban assault weapons, it banned weapons that looked like assault weapons, it fed on fears generated by a lack of knowlege. Those who supported it gained adherents by deliberately misidentifying what they hoped to ban and referring to them as AK-47s and other such names. Parabola did just this when stating "FWIW, he said in his speech last night that he did not want to "Take away" (as if he could) people's right to own guns. What he is aiming for (as a poster already said) is to get the Ak47s and machine guns and that kind of weaponry out of the hands of criminals. Thats his position, right now, as he runs for president."- misinformation or a deliberate deception (on Obama's, not Parabola's part), take your pick, but certainly not an attempt to be truthful.

 

 

What Obama would ban, as Pam agrees, (given that she could not mean genuine AK-47s as Obama has never dealt with this issue) is our hunting, sporting and target rifles. No I can not vote for a man who would ban them, I further can not vote for a man who would be our Commander in Chief and does not know the difference.

[pqr]

Thats his position, right now, as he runs for president.

 

 

Obama isn't going to take away guns, in any way. .... I'm voting democrat and I don't want the 2nd amendment messed with. Just because one is voting for Obama doesn't mean one wants gun rights abolished. ...So don't lump democrats into a big ol' bag of "they want to take away our guns". Its wrong. Its wrong. Its wrong. Its wrong.

.

 

Parabola, as you are a pro-Constitution, ie pro-2nd Amendment Democrat, I salute you. Your party needs more like you.

 

Unfortunately you are being misled by your party. Arguing that Obama is anything but anti-gun is like arguing that the world is flat. One can find some tenuous evidence to support the argument, but it will not stand up to examination.

 

Voting records are important, especially before he announced for President. "his position, right now, as he runs for president" is opposed to everything else he has done. It is disingenuous. You are being misled.

 

Sincerely pqr

[lynn]

I am so upset with Bush that he went around the law and allowed trucks from Mexico to deliver in our country. I can't vote for anyone it seems. These seem like small things to others but they are in my top 10 issues.

 

I'm a moderate but I swing conservative on some things and liberal on others. I literally don't have anyone to vote for. :(

 

I'd really like to pick one of them otherwise it's like flushing my vote.

 

These are not little issues at all. I am glad someone is posting beyond prolife/prochoice. The Supreme Court Justice appointments need to be addressed in a big way because messing major constitutional rights are an issue. It's going to be hard for many. I don't believe in being a 1 issue voter then deciding not to vote because of 1 issue. Write it all out what you would like to see in the future for your children and see which candidate you can support.

[Mom to Aly]

Now that the laws have been put in place, it would be hard to overturn. It would take another landmark case to challenge the laws--and that means something that would find problem with a law in place, where a specific situation is unclear under the law and a decision had to be rendered and could not on a state level, that would bring it to the Supreme Court. Not a general, we don't want you to be able to carry guns and we are challenging the right to do it when you already have it.

[Angel]

I may be naive, in fact, I probably am. I like to stick my head in the sand and not listen to all the bad things that are going on in the world around me. I know more about McCain and Obama than I ever really wanted to know, thanks to you all. Frankly, it is disturbing. What I am wondering is this...if we support bans only on assualt weapons (or any weapons), and word it so that we are doing the ban to keep it out of criminals hands, is this ban really for criminals or for the common public. I guess this has always confused me. Aren't criminals, well, criminals? Are they not going to find away around the laws to obtain their weapons? That is what they do for a living, is it not. I've always wondered about this and maybe you all can enlighten me. I've always assumed (I know, it's bad to assume) that bans on weapons would not protect us from those who know the back alley way of obtaining those weapons in the first place.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

as Pam agrees,

 

I bow to your superior knowledge of what I agree to.

 

I think this is what I agree to, as this is what he says. If you know differently, I'd love some links. Links that aren't Bill O'Reilly OR Daily Kos, if you please.

[Jugglin'5]

No, you are not naive, you are on the logic train, traveling straight and true.:001_smile: I'm out of rep right now. I'll try to catch you later.

 

I may be naive, in fact, I probably am. I like to stick my head in the sand and not listen to all the bad things that are going on in the world around me. I know more about McCain and Obama than I ever really wanted to know, thanks to you all. Frankly, it is disturbing. What I am wondering is this...if we support bans only on assualt weapons (or any weapons), and word it so that we are doing the ban to keep it out of criminals hands, is this ban really for criminals or for the common public. I guess this has always confused me. Aren't criminals, well, criminals? Are they not going to find away around the laws to obtain their weapons? That is what they do for a living, is it not. I've always wondered about this and maybe you all can enlighten me. I've always assumed (I know, it's bad to assume) that bans on weapons would not protect us from those who know the back alley way of obtaining those weapons in the first place.

[Robin Hood]

he's a democrat in drag.

 

:lol: Off topic, but I found humor in that because here in CA, I've always thought of Arnold as a Kennedy in disguise. This conservative did not give him my vote.

[Krista in LA]

I bow to your superior knowledge of what I agree to.

 

I think this is what I agree to, as this is what he says. If you know differently, I'd love some links. Links that aren't Bill O'Reilly OR Daily Kos, if you please.

 

Pam, thanks for that link. I can see how non-gun owners might not see any problem with many of those issues but they are a big deal for gun owners. Just like requiring standardized testing for homeschoolers doesn't sound like a big deal to non-homeschoolers but homeschoolers would not want such a law passed.

 

Obama: Principles that Obama supports on gun issues: Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons. Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms. Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.

Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test

Date: 07/02/1998

I happen to have a semi-automatic .22. It is really a rather harmless gun in the big picture. Loading it is rather tedious. It holds 5 shots. I don't carry it as my concealed weapon because it wouldn't necessarily stop someone who might be attacking me. I wouldn't be able to buy this gun if Obama had his way. However, I would still be able to go buy a .38 special revolver which is far more dangerous on so many levels. It's easier to load and and also will hold 5 shots. If you pull back on the hammer, it fires very easily. It also uses an ammo that most likely would stop an attacker. So even though some of these things may seem like they make sense, they really don't. It's just a way to slowly take away our rights just like many other laws.

[Peek a Boo]

Pam, thanks for that link. I can see how non-gun owners might not see any problem with many of those issues but they are a big deal for gun owners. Just like requiring standardized testing for homeschoolers doesn't sound like a big deal to non-homeschoolers but homeschoolers would not want such a law passed.

***

So even though some of these things may seem like they make sense, they really don't. It's just a way to slowly take away our rights just like many other laws.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

Spot on.

[Peek a Boo]

I bow to your superior knowledge of what I agree to.

 

I think this is what I agree to, as this is what he says. If you know differently, I'd love some links. Links that aren't Bill O'Reilly OR Daily Kos, if you please.

 

 

THIS is what he says there: [as we pointed out earlier in the thread]

 

Principles that Obama supports on gun issues: Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.

 

that's like saying we're only going to ban certain forms of media to the public.

 

 

Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.

 

"increase" usually means there's going to be MORE. more what? RESTRICTIONS. A restriction means that it will NOT be a freedom guaranteed to all non-criminal citizens. This is akin to pro-choice people pointing out the "restrictions" about a woman's right to access an abortion. It is disingenuous to realize that a restriction on one "right" is not ok and a restriction on another right IS ok.

 

 

It's hard for me to find a rationale for a 19-clip semi-automatic.

 

um, so our SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS are going to be based on HIS rationale?? what version of the Constitution was this guy teaching?? what other Rights are going to be determined by his "rationale"??

 

as i have mentioned before, it's not Obama's lack of experience that bothers me-- it's his stated policies and judgment.

[pqr]

I bow to your superior knowledge of what I agree to.

 

I think this is what I agree to, as this is what he says. If you know differently, I'd love some links. Links that aren't Bill O'Reilly OR Daily Kos, if you please.

 

 

Pam to use your own link: "Obama: Principles that Obama supports on gun issues: Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons. Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms. Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.

Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test

Date: 07/02/1998"

 

This ban includes:

1. The .22 rifle my father taught me to shoot with

2. The WWII rifle I have in the safe

3. The shotgun my friend uses during duck season

4. The WWI pistol I have in the safe (by the way this pistol is 91 years old!)

5. The pistol I have (when in the States) for home protection

6. The pistol our Olympians used in the Olympics

7. The .22 rifle I bought to teach my children to shoot with (yes, it is part of our homeschooling program as I believe it teaches valuable skills as well as providing an enjoyable passtime)

8. The rifles many boy scout troops use

 

So... No when you state "Well, she definitely can't vote for him if she opposes serious restrictions on the sale of AK-47's. But she probably could if she opposes serious restrictions on handguns and rifles (with applicable permits and concealed carry licenses)." she could not vote for him if she simply opposed "serious restrictions.", and they are not restrictions, they are (in Obama's words) BANS.

 

The fact remains that Obama, and others, rely on the unfortunate truism that many do not understand the definitions used when speaking of firearms as (and I am honestly not trying to be rude here, so please do not take it as such, but it is a truth) many on this thread have aptly demonstrated. I may not know what you agree to, but I do know what many people know when it comes to firearms.