Does it raise red flags in your mind...

[Ginevra]

when you meet a family and the children seem excessively quiet/sad?/uninvolved with the other people around them? I'm talking more than one child in the family, all seems the same -sad/disinterested.

[JustEm]

Not at all. I would assume they were uncomfortable in crowds or with other people.  

[Peaceful Isle]

Nope, I have a great friend who is wonderful mom and homeschool her kids. They are all pretty shy, quiet, and reserved. It's just their personality.

[Catwoman]

I guess it would depend on how well I knew the family and how often I saw them.

[Guest submarines]

In and of itself? Not necessarily. They could be introverted or slow to warm up.

 

So much depends on their personalities and ages and whether it is a regular occurrence.

[zoobie]

Not a one-off thing. Maybe the ride over was hellish. Maybe there's a family stressor. Maybe they're getting over something. Or maybe they all have reserved personalities. If it were a constant thing, it would worry me.

[Guest]

Not a one-off thing. Maybe the ride over was hellish. Maybe there's a family stressor. Maybe they're getting over something. Or maybe they all have reserved personalities. If it were a constant thing, it would worry me.

This is kinda what I'm thinking - that if this is what I saw over and over, it might be troubling.

[Orthodox6]

Yes, possibly a red flag. One or more of the children possibly have depression. You need more information before taking a leap to wonder about abuse. Anything could be the case. The family pet might have died during the previous week. A loved grandparent might be dying (or have died). The dad may have lost his job and the children know it. (or the mother have lost her own job). House could be in foreclosure. It would take a close, astute observer to detect clues to a serious situation. One social setting interaction is not much.

 

I hope I am making some sort of sense.

[Mimm]

I know a family who act that way. Three children and the mom, all very quiet and reserved. Till you get to know them. I had the son in an art class and couldn't get him to stop talking.

[Guest]

I know a family who act that way. Three children and the mom, all very quiet and reserved. Till you get to know them. I had the son in an art class and couldn't get him to stop talking.

Yeah, but...I'm reserved. It did not look that way to me. Although, truly, one interaction does not say much. Still...it was curious.

[Guest submarines]

I'm curious why quiet and sad seem to be used interchangeably in the question? How do you define "sad" in this context?

[texasmama]

Maybe.  My "feelers" are pretty sensitive, and I can usually fairly easily differentiate between being reserved, shy, anxious, slow to warm up, and sad.  If several kids in one family seem sad, I would wonder the reason.  Sad feels different than scared or shy.  I would not necessarily jump to any conclusion about it, but I would wonder. 

[Guest]

I'm curious why quiet and sad seem to be used interchangeably in the question? How do you define "sad" in this context?

I'm not equating quiet and sad; I am a quiet person. I have been sad/depressed, too, though. People may or may not notice that i have left "quiet" and journeyed into withdrawing. "Sad" to me is kids that seem uninterested in the other kids, aren't involved, seem mute.

[texasmama]

I have experienced a heaviness when around sad kids.  (ETA:  The same is true for sad adults.  Depression is heavy and often palpable.)  I start to feel "heavy" when I am around them.  This is absent with anxiety, shyness or kids who are naturally quiet.

 

My therapist training taught me to pay attention to how I was feeling while interacting with someone.   Often there are clues to the person's mood if you are an intuitive person.

[Guest]

I have experienced a heaviness when around sad kids. (ETA: The same is true for sad adults. Depression is heavy and often palpable.) I start to feel "heavy" when I am around them. This is absent with anxiety, shyness or kids who are naturally quiet.

 

My therapist training taught me to pay attention to how I was feeling while interacting with someone. Often there are clues to the person's mood if you are an intuitive person.

This does make sense to me.

[Truscifi]

Not in one instance, but if it were a pattern I would start to look closer to see what might be going on.

[Samiam]

I'm not equating quiet and sad; I am a quiet person. I have been sad/depressed, too, though. People may or may not notice that i have left "quiet" and journeyed into withdrawing. "Sad" to me is kids that seem uninterested in the other kids, aren't involved, seem mute.

So you just described my oldest child when in a group of people he doesn't know. He "seems" uninterested in other kids, because he's so reserved he is nervous/scared/doesn't know how to get involved, he wouldn't involve himself for fear of being rejected, he wouldn't choose to speak to anyone, he would chose to even sit alone, away from the group. You judged him as sad. You don't know him. He's not sad, he's reserved aka shy. That's different then quiet. And he's none of these things at home, or in groups he feels very comfortable in. He'll mature out if this to a certain extent, already has from what he used to be.....but your judgement doesn't help him or me! I already know all if this about him, and I'm already am keenly aware of how uncomfortable he is, and how others will judge him because he seems so stand-off-ish. I already feel bad about it, for him, and we have always worked on it, discussed it, tried to help....but it's just part of his personality....and it's not about being sad. The judgement based in a one time meeting is incorrect. Spend more time, actually get to know them, then decide.

[Catwoman]

when you meet a family and the children seem excessively quiet/sad?/uninvolved with the other people around them? I'm talking more than one child in the family, all seems the same -sad/disinterested.

I just wanted to post and tell you I love your new avatar picture. You look gorgeous!

 

I wish I had your hair!!!

[Guest]

I just wanted to post and tell you I love your new avatar picture. You look gorgeous!

 

I wish I had your hair!!!

Awww, thanks. You're so dear. I was trying to get a nice graphic of a quill and not have myself at all, but it's not working out for me ATM. I hope to try on an actual computer later, not iPad. Maybe it will work then.

[Starr]

I would find it curious if they were also not interacting with each other. We have family friends that are not comfortable in large groups they don't know but you will see them chatting with each other.

[Guest]

I would find it curious if they were also not interacting with each other. We have family friends that are not comfortable in large groups they don't know but you will see them chatting with each other.

hmmm. That makes sense. I haven't had an opportunity to observe them all together. Like I said, I'm not leaping to any conclusions at this point; just thought it might want some observation.

[school17777]

I'd think shy, or some social anxiety. My daughter can seem like this to those who don't know her.

Yes, mine too. Dh brought home one of the little boys from soccer practice to babysit for a bit. When his dad came to pick the boy up, he couldn't believe what he saw - our youngest was running around laughing and giggling and talking with his son and neighbor kids. When he has seen her at church, she is quiet stands still, may hang her head slightly, and certainly doesn't say a word. And we have been going there for most of her life. So, she appeared as a completely different kid to him.

[Danestress]

I am not sure what kinds of red flags you mean. I might think the child or children were shy, socially anxious, or reserved by nature. Or I might think the child was sad, which does not necessary seem alarming, because the world can be a very sad place, and being sad does not seem unusual. Or I might think the child is possibly depressed. I don't know the depression rate for young children, but I expect some children will be depressed.

[elegantlion]

Yes, mine too. Dh brought home one of the little boys from soccer practice to babysit for a bit. When his dad came to pick the boy up, he couldn't believe what he saw - our youngest was running around laughing and giggling and talking with his son and neighbor kids. When he has seen her at church, she is quiet stands still, may hang her head slightly, and certainly doesn't say a word. And we have been going there for most of her life. So, she appeared as a completely different kid to him.

 

This was my ds as well. Someone from church was visiting me, she saw him every week. Yet he observes in groups and rarely speaks up. She couldn't believe how gregarious he was. 

 

I've also been aware of RBF - resting *itch face- seriously, don't know how else to describe it and that the term. It's almost like a scowl, where in reality you're thinking or just not doing anything. It can look like you're mean or offputting. I wonder if there is a resting sad face, if all the family had it, it could be. 

[SKL]

No.  If it was the first time you met them, maybe their uncle just died or their dad lost his job or something.  If it is over time, I would assume that they just had that look (physically) and it didn't mean anything.  I know kids who have a permanent frown or sneer that they inherited from their dad.  Even if they were crying or crabbing all the time, I would not assume anything.  I know kids who screamed most of their waking hours away during certain stages, and came out just fine.

[SKL]

My kids won't talk to new people unless the issue is forced.  They just look kind of lost, until they find their groove.

[mommymilkies]

Probably not. My family (extended too) are largely shy and reserved. We are all like Eeyore. I blame genetics. :p

 

I would only be concerned if there were obvious red flags: bruises, excess acting out, etc. especially not knowing these kids, maybe that's personality, maybe there was a death in the family...there are too many variables.

[Paige]

No, I'd assume they were shy. I had a friend who we saw regularly- probably at least 1-2 times a week but most of the time it was in groups with other people. We were doing something with just our own kids after we had known each other for about 2 years and she told me that it was the first time she had ever seen my girls smile or laugh! I was really surprised. I knew they were extremely shy and uncomfortable with groups of other kids but I had never realized how bad it must look to other people. They are older now and not so shy. I promise we weren't beating them and they were happy, giggly, and outgoing at home and in groups of only a few kids. 

[Guest]

I am not sure what kinds of red flags you mean. I might think the child or children were shy, socially anxious, or reserved by nature. Or I might think the child was sad, which does not necessary seem alarming, because the world can be a very sad place, and being sad does not seem unusual. Or I might think the child is possibly depressed. I don't know the depression rate for young children, but I expect some children will be depressed.

If several children in one family may be depressed, that is something to care about. I'm not saying I would take some sort of drastic action, but depression is not a healthy or normal state for children to be in, IF that were the case.

[texasmama]

If several children in one family may be depressed, that is something to care about. I'm not saying I would take some sort of drastic action, but depression is not a healthy or normal state for children to be in, IF that were the case.

Agreed. 

 

The key to your OP is that SEVERAL children in a family appeared this way.  Even in the face of a difficult circumstance, children react differently.  The younger a child is, the less likely he/she should suffer from depression (an ongoing sadness, which sometimes presents as irritability in kids).  If a family, for instance, has children ages 5,8 and 12, and they have had a trauma of sorts, even a significant one like the loss of a loved one, they will likely present differently due to age/developmental stage alone, forgetting family culture and other factors.

 

Several children appearing sad and heavy versus being shy or slow to warm up is very different, in my book.  A family of introverts might not rock the room at first entry, but they would probably not look "sad" to me, not in the way I imagine it is meant in the OP.  Not "I dropped my favorite pencil and broke it on the way in here" but "things feel bad to me, and I don't know when or if they might get better".

 

Again, even with my professional hat on, I would not necessarily make something dire of this, but I would wonder if there was underlying pathology, either genetic or environmental.  Yes, I absolutely would. 

 

My first thought would be a mood disorder in a parent or main caretaker.  That's a bit too much to theorize, though, given the limited information in the OP, just something I would have my radar up for in general.

 

(We're just talkin' here - no diagnosing.  ;) )

[Paige]

You can't tell if a child is depressed by how he or she acts in public. A naturally shy child who appears sad could be very joyful internally and the very hyper, active, seemingly extra happy extrovert in groups could be extremely depressed. Think about Robin Williams- whenever he was in a group he seemed very outgoing and happy. I don't think it's unnatural for multiple children of the same family to have similar personalities. 

[texasmama]

(This is just the sort of discussion that I find very interesting, BTW. )

[texasmama]

You can't tell if a child is depressed by how he or she acts in public. A naturally shy child who appears sad could be very joyful internally and the very hyper, active, seemingly extra happy extrovert in groups could be extremely depressed. Think about Robin Williams- whenever he was in a group he seemed very outgoing and happy. I don't think it's unnatural for multiple children of the same family to have similar personalities. 

The bolded is true to a great extent, but a parallel cannot be drawn between an adult with Bipolar in his 60's and a family of children.

 

This thread has made me wonder if my senses have been honed by years of seeing kids in therapy  with all sorts of different issues.  The sad/depressed ones are not too hard to identify.  Not just the ones having a hard day but the ones who have given up hope and carry a much larger weight than a child should have to bear.  It is a terribly sad thing to watch from the outside.  :(

 

ETA:  If a child is truly extremely depressed, that is hard to hide.  The older we get, the better we get at slapping on a happy face, but depression in adults can bleed through, as well.  The younger the kids, the more transparent the feelings, IME.

[6packofun]

Not nearly right off the bat like that without really knowing the family.  I have a dd who is 17 and has a perpetual look of misery for some reason.  LOL  But play a board game or video game with her?  Listen to some music she likes with her?  Talk about art or comics/manga?  THAT is when you'll see who my dd really is and I appreciate others taking the time to get to know her, too.

 

Oh, and she's also quite aware and uncomfortable with the feeling she's being OBSERVED or judged.  In fact, it kind of ticks her off.

[texasmama]

Part of the reason I have always enjoyed working with kids is their transparency.  Barring extreme abuse/neglect/trauma, prepubescent kids are pretty genuine with the presentation of their emotions.  What you see is what you get.  I always found that refreshing.  Kids tend to be very accessible. 

 

(Sorry for the serial posting.  I am about to leave to do errands and had to get all of my thoughts out before I do so.  :D)

[Orthodox6]

I had the impression that OP was concerned because not just one, but all of the children acted withdrawn and unhappy.  That would trigger worry within me, to be honest. 

[mommymilkies]

The bolded is true to a great extent, but a parallel cannot be drawn between an adult with Bipolar in his 60's and a family of children.

 

This thread has made me wonder if my senses have been honed by years of seeing kids in therapy with all sorts of different issues. The sad/depressed ones are not too hard to identify. Not just the ones having a hard day but the ones who have given up hope and carry a much larger weight than a child should have to bear. It is a terribly sad thing to watch from the outside. :(

 

ETA: If a child is truly extremely depressed, that is hard to hide. The older we get, the better we get at slapping on a happy face, but depression in adults can bleed through, as well. The younger the kids, the more transparent the feelings, IME.

I actually disagree based on my experience with friends. I had two very outwardly happy outgoing friends who attempted suicide. Depression does not always show as looking sad.

[texasmama]

I actually disagree based on my experience with friends. I had two very outwardly happy outgoing friends who attempted suicide. Depression does not always show as looking sad.

But these are adults, right? We are speaking of children.

 

(And yes, adults can hide depression. )

[Paige]

I believe children can hide their emotions- especially for short periods outside of the home. Perhaps you have a selection bias in therapy. Those who are good at hiding it rarely get sent to therapy, or if they are sent to therapy, they receive diagnosis for things like ADHD or anxiety. Maybe a 3yr old wouldn't have the skills, but I think by the age of 8-10, some kids will do it. 

[mommymilkies]

But these are adults, right? We are speaking of children.

 

(And yes, adults can hide depression. )

No, in school.

[texasmama]

I believe children can hide their emotions- especially for short periods outside of the home. Perhaps you have a selection bias in therapy. Those who are good at hiding it rarely get sent to therapy, or if they are sent to therapy, they receive diagnosis for things like ADHD or anxiety. Maybe a 3yr old wouldn't have the skills, but I think by the age of 8-10, some kids will do it.

Selection bias is quite possible. But a truly depressed child (the way I mean depressed) would not be able to mask it very well at the ages you describe. They lack the sophistication.

[texasmama]

No, in school.

Gotcha. So adolescents. Teens start to resemble adults in this manner so I think we are not in disagreement.

 

When I speak of children, I generally mean pre adolescents.

[mommymilkies]

Gotcha. So adolescents. Teens start to resemble adults in this manner so I think we are not in disagreement.

 

When I speak of children, I generally mean pre adolescents.

I'm talking ages 10-14. Everyone will have different experiences, of course.

[texasmama]

I'm talking ages 10-14. Everyone will have different experiences, of course.

:( How very sad for your young friends.

[mommymilkies]

:( How very sad for your young friends.

One had a really terrible home life.  That attempt probably saved her life in that she got professional help out of it.  Sad either way.  I think we all have bias about issues.  I don't see kids who look sad as actually being depressed most of the time (outside of other factors), because I have one kid on the selective mutism border and two shy introverts.  I am also extremely shy and introverted with RBF.  :lol: 99% of the time I'm not sad, just uncomfortable in groups.  From one exposure to children I don't think I would presume abuse or anything pathological, though. If they were very sad appearing without other factors I could see, I would assume there was a death or large life change in the family and it was temporary. 

[VeteranMom]

I've seen that once and it didn't raise red flags until I got to know the family situation.  Basically, the only people happy in the household were Mom and Dad.  Each parent had brought 2 kids into the family.  The Dad was an a*s and I'm pretty sure the kids sufferered a lot of mental abuse. 

[SJ.]

I would assume one of these:

1. They are shy and reserved around new people

2. Depending on the age perhaps they were having a bad day and mom just gave them "the talk" about being on their best behavior

3. Depending on the age perhaps they were having a bad day and they were just disciplined and are feeling badly about it

4. All of the above

 

I definitely wouldn't jump to conclusions about depression or family problems upon first meeting a family.

[Reefgazer]

Funny story about quiet people:  One Christmas about 20-25 years ago, my entire family was sitting around being rowdy, loud, and obnoxious, because that's how we roll when we get together.  Except my niece.  She sat on the couch quietly and only spoke when spoken to, and then only in a very quiet voice.  After everyone left, my sister and I sat around speculating what was wrong with her, was she mentally ill, intellectually deficient and no one was getting her help, blah, blah, blah.  We figured once she reached school age, some teacher would intervene on her behalf and fix those deficiencies, LOL.  We just could not comprehend someone that quiet!  Finally, my dad, who hadn't joined in the niece-bashing, looked up from his paper and said "There is nothing wrong with ______.  Unlike the rest of you, she is just quiet and ladylike."  Fast forward to 15 years ago, when DH and I were just dating and he joined my extended family for Christmas for the first time.  He just sat on the end of the couch, as quiet and serious as my niece was a few years prior, completely dumbfounded at the chaos!  It was then that I realized my family *might not* be completely typical, LOL! 

 

My DH's family is so quiet and serious, I thought my wedding looked more like a funeral from their side of the room.  They seriously looked depressed all the time, and are really quiet.  But I've come to see it as just quiet and serious.  Don't know how people get that way, LOL!

[Danestress]

If several children in one family may be depressed, that is something to care about. I'm not saying I would take some sort of drastic action, but depression is not a healthy or normal state for children to be in, IF that were the case.

It is not a matter of 'care about' or 'not care about.' I guess when I see 'red flag' I think the question is about whether some action or investigation on my part is necessary. I don't actually think that it would be my job to investigate just based on signs of depression. I would normally assume that parents can see and respond to issues better than I can, and that if I started asking questions to get more information, it would may seem untrusive.

[Guest]

It is not a matter of 'care about' or 'not care about.' I guess when I see 'red flag' I think the question is about whether some action or investigation on my part is necessary. I don't actually think that it would be my job to investigate just based on signs of depression. I would normally assume that parents can see and respond to issues better than I can, and that if I started asking questions to get more information, it would may seem untrusive.

My use of "red flag" is in the sense that I will be observing them more in the future. I have no plans to interrogate anyone. I am not an "intervenor" type of person, but if I noticed the same behaviors repeatedly, I may discuss it with others in a position to have observed them, too, especially any who have some authority as to human behavior.

 

I've seen a lot of kids in this same setting. Gregarious kids, quiet kids, exuberant kids, terrified kids, kids with SPDs, nice kids and bratty kids. These kids stand out in a way that gives me a "none of the above" vibe. Honestly, it is less concerning when I encounter a kid who cries and kicks because they want Mama. That is normal distressed preschooler behavior and it generally blows over. This was not like that. I don't want to say too much, but these kids were different in a noticeable way. Sad is the best adjective that comes to mind. Listless, even. When I see something like that, I feel it warrants more observation, perhaps down the road, seeing if others feel something is amiss there.