creekland Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The national news this morning (NBC) came on with a headline saying 40 shootings over the weekend with 4 dead including an 11 year old girl at a sleepover killed by a stray bullet coming through the window! WHAT IN THE WORLD is going on there??? I guess I've been way out of the loop in my little corner of the world where shootings are quite rare. 40 in one weekend? I can't imagine... and that poor girl + her family +friends + the folks she was staying with for the sleepover... :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I think that kind of thing has been happening there for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 And oh joy, guess where my dd is moving in August. Just craziness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Here's a map that shows the locations of the recent shootings (Updated only through the 14th though) http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings Notice how almost every one of them is a male...is that typical? I guess maybe it is but it sure looks scary when I see it laid out like that. Lisa, I'm sure your dd will be ok. From what we're hearing it's mostly gang on gang. Yes, there are some innocent people getting caught up in that but it's usually in an area with a lot of gang activity. Then again, looking at the map, I think I'd be staying downtown in the loop- that looks like the safest place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I grew up in the Chicago area and I lived in a poor, crime-ridden area of the city for fourteen years. Summer violence is normal to the inner city throughout the world, including Chicago. Much of it is gang-related, but much of it is just old-fashioned unhappy, dysfunctional people acting crazy. I highly doubt your daughter is moving to an area that sees regular shooting. I had a good life in Chicago and I am sure she will too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Here is the map that includes this weekend. http://voices.suntimes.com/news/breaking-news/chicago-shootings-tracker-for-july-18-20-2014/ The violence is heartbreaking. Tourists should feel very safe, there are so many police walking,riding,biking around all of the downtown its sort of ridiculous. It makes me think of the old west. The gangs are fighting amongst themselves, the police haven't figured out how to deter them so they are doing what they can to protect innocent bystanders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwickimom Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yep- pretty much gangs and pretty much has always gone on, but they are being seen more in the news because of the concealed carry law that passed.Which I am sure none of the crimes were committed with a legal gun and permit but it will all be more in our face now due to the law passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelbe5 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I worked in the inner city with young gang bangers before my eldest was born from 1992-1995. I have also lived in Chicago or near Chicago all my life. Gangs are a major problem in parts of Chicago and gang violence is nothing new. In my opinion our instant-news-age has brought the issue to the forefront. There are parts of Chicago that I will avoid but I love going into Chicago and take my family to various places frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Those interested in this issue, if you've not already watched The Interrupters, you really should. A compelling & thought-provoking ~ as well as challenging and somewhat discouraging ~ documentary by the same filmmaker who years ago brought us Hoop Dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Those interested in this issue, if you've not already watched The Interrupters, you really should. A compelling & thought-provoking ~ as well as challenging and somewhat discouraging ~ documentary by the same filmmaker who years ago brought us Hoop Dreams. Thanks. I will watch that this evening. I spent the last 7 years working in an urban school with gangs. I am transferring (today!) to the opposite side of the county and pretty much the opposite school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Wow. Thank goodness for gun control laws. I can't imagine what it'd be like otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Wow. Thank goodness for gun control laws. I can't imagine what it'd be like otherwise. Unsurprisingly, some claim that Chicago's strict gun control laws are actually part of the problem. Blah, blah, blah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 So, gang warfare? That makes sense, and it also makes sense that it's been going on, but it definitely surprised me that it made the national news as that makes it seem like the numbers are out of the ordinary. It still seems like a lot (to me) when I think about it. I feel for those who have to live in those neighborhoods. I don't care which country it is in, I'd never want to live in a war zone - gang or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 So, gang warfare? That makes sense, and it also makes sense that it's been going on, but it definitely surprised me that it made the national news as that makes it seem like the numbers are out of the ordinary. It still seems like a lot (to me) when I think about it. I feel for those who have to live in those neighborhoods. I don't care which country it is in, I'd never want to live in a war zone - gang or otherwise. I think on the weekend of July 4th there were some 80 people shot in Chicago. I kept hearing different numbers but 80 was the one i heard most often. I feel for the people who live there and also for the young people in the gangs- that they feel this is their only choice. How sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 I think on the weekend of July 4th there were some 80 people shot in Chicago. I kept hearing different numbers but 80 was the one i heard most often. I feel for the people who live there and also for the young people in the gangs- that they feel this is their only choice. How sad. :iagree: Is Chicago now the most dangerous city per capita? I don't think it used to be. I guess I'm wondering why it made the news this morning. To be fair, I didn't watch the news after July 4th, so maybe it made national news then too... Sometimes I feel really out of the loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelbe5 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 There is a pervasive gang culture in Chicago. Inter-generational gang memberships (both male and female) is the "norm" in some communities. Gangs also offer a "family" to many young people who do not have healthy family dynamics. There is a strong code of silence because talking to the police will get you hurt or killed. They will use younger kids for crimes because the penalties are less severe . . . and they will execute members who try to leave or are a threat to the overall organization. The main business is drugs. One of my clients was a 14 year old gang member who was supporting his alcoholic mother. He asked me how else could he take care of her? There were no other "healthy" family members - even his mom was in a female gang. I really did not have an answer for him, even though he was headed for prison or death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Unsurprisingly, some claim that Chicago's strict gun control laws are actually part of the problem. Blah, blah, blah... What do gun control laws have to do with gang violence? It confuses me people bring this up in the context of criminals shooting people. They're criminals. If they don't care about the "don't shoot other people" law, they surely don't care about making sure their weapons are legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm not terribly suprised. I live downstate, but we get the trickle down of gang and mob crime and drugs and I've been to Chicago enough times that I fear for my safety more there than anywhere I've ever been or lived (except Rockford-part of Chicago sprawl and crime IME, but I grew up in/near Over the Rhine and it wasn't this bad). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 What do gun control laws have to do with gang violence? It confuses me people bring this up in the context of criminals shooting people. They're criminals. If they don't care about the "don't shoot other people" law, they surely don't care about making sure their weapons are legal. Nevermind. I did a quick google search. The thinking is that with strict gun control laws (e.g. banning handguns) the only people that are armed are criminals, which leaves law-abiding people defenseless against them, and Chicago has (at least in recent history?) had the strictest gun control laws AND the highest rate of gun violence. So, that's interesting. Anyway, my curiosity is assuaged. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Some parts of Chicago are dangerous, and some are very safe. In a place like Chicago, neighborhoods end with a street or a park, and living in a non-violent neighborhood can be the difference of E or W side of a boulevard. So, even if a murder occurred two blocks away, you may be living in a place where you experience nearly no crime. OTOH, you may live a block from $2.5 million homes and fear frequently for your safety. http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/homicides Ditto the gang-on-gang violence. As The Interrupters and some recent cases make clear, a lot of the violence is young people with access to guns and no ideas on how to deal with arguments reasonably. There are a ton of illegal guns in Chicago. I wish they'd crack down on those before making more laws... Enforce what you have, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Is Chicago now the most dangerous city per capita? No. That honor still belongs to Flint, Michigan, followed by Detroit. But people are less interested in hearing about Flint than they are Chicago, thus the media coverage. The thinking is that with strict gun control laws (e.g. banning handguns) the only people that are armed are criminals, which leaves law-abiding people defenseless against them Yep, the usual NRA style clap-trap. As The Interrupters and some recent cases make clear, a lot of the violence is young people with access to guns and no ideas on how to deal with arguments reasonably. Right. And gangs themselves are the by-product of the real issues: poverty & lack of jobs. What baffles me is that some people genuinely consider America "the greatest" nation on earth when these sort of endemic issues exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyWImom Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 We love Chicago & used to visit often. My mom has friends who live in the city who say the crime areas are spreading, even into the "good" or so-called safe areas and they are selling their homes and moving. It makes me so sad. Sad for the city and the innocent victims, sad for those caught up in the gangs themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 For some. For others, its that the income available from a legal biz isnt sufficient for the desires. And others come from dysfunctional families, the gang offers them what they cant get at home. We don't get gangs here - at least - nowhere near the same level. But one young drug pusher at the school where I work told me he does it because he can make far more money selling drugs than at anything else. His involvement with law enforcement (and his anklet, etc) were just part of the job to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yep, the usual NRA style clap-trap. Right. And gangs themselves are the by-product of the real issues: poverty & lack of jobs. What baffles me is that some people genuinely consider America "the greatest" nation on earth when these sort of endemic issues exist. It's not just NRA clap-trap. I have never owned a gun, and I am not a member of the NRA. I did, however, live in the inner-city for fourteen years, and I worked/volunteered there for many years prior to that. Tighter gun control on law-abiding citizens will not fix the problems of the inner city. You are right about the real issues being poverty and the lack of jobs. It goes deeper than that, however. It includes the drug sale structure that is intrinsic to game membership, and it includes deeply dysfunctional interpersonal relationship structures from generations of drug abuse and broken families and even the long-term effects of slavery. (Not ONLY slavery, but the after-effects of institutional slavery do still exist as one of the factors.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Another problem that has become more common is wilding, when large numbers -- up to 400, 500 -- of (mostly) teens meet up at one spot to harass and occasionally assault and rob strangers and businesses. Michigan Avenue, Oak Street Beach and North Avenue Beach are some of the areas where these have occurred. Sometimes they've evolved into flash mob robberies. In the past they've used the Grand and Chicago Red Line train stops to get there and leave. If the police notice large mobs of rowdy kids, they now accompany them in case they start to stir up trouble. I used to live in a condo on Michigan Avenue near Oak and still travel down there quite a bit (possibly moving back). It does seem to me that the crime has become worse but mostly in the form of wilding. ​Chicago and some of the suburbs have a lot of gangs. Some are more violent than others. One gang that they used to worry about was MS-13 from El Salvador but I don't think they managed to get a foothold here. Btw, some individuals are succeeding in brokering peace between rival gangs but that doesn't often make the news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 For some. For others, its that the income available from a legal biz isnt sufficient for the desires. Not sure what you mean by this. And others come from dysfunctional families, the gang offers them what they cant get at home. Yes, and I'd argue that more often than not, the dysfunction itself is part & parcel of the poverty, etc. Tighter gun control on law-abiding citizens will not fix the problems of the inner city. Agreed. As I said/we're saying, the problems are multifaceted. Of course there's no one, broad-brush solution. You are right about the real issues being poverty and the lack of jobs. It goes deeper than that, however. It includes the drug sale structure that is intrinsic to game membership, and it includes deeply dysfunctional interpersonal relationship structures from generations of drug abuse and broken families and even the long-term effects of slavery. (Not ONLY slavery, but the after-effects of institutional slavery do still exist as one of the factors.) Agreed. And again, poverty, lack of opportunity, limited job availability, inequality in education & housing ~ it's all interrelated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Btw, some individuals are succeeding in brokering peace between rival gangs but that doesn't often make the news. It's too bad it doesn't. I wish them success! The young chap I mentioned before told me his stuff about the drug dealing when he was in 8th grade. His father is also a known pusher and was in jail at the time. I do wonder how much of it is passed down as the family occupation whether in gangs or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Another problem that has become more common is wilding, when large numbers -- up to 400, 500 -- of (mostly) teens meet up at one spot to harass and occasionally assault and rob strangers and businesses. Michigan Avenue, Oak Street Beach and North Avenue Beach are some of the areas where these have occurred. Sometimes they've evolved into flash mob robberies. In the past they've used the Grand and Chicago Red Line train stops to get there and leave. If the police notice large mobs of rowdy kids, they now accompany them in case they start to stir up trouble. I used to live in a condo on Michigan Avenue near Oak and still travel down there quite a bit (possibly moving back). It does seem to me that the crime has become worse but mostly in the form of wilding. ​Chicago and some of the suburbs have a lot of gangs. Some are more violent than others. One gang that they used to worry about was MS-13 from El Salvador but I don't think they managed to get a foothold here. Btw, some individuals are succeeding in brokering peace between rival gangs but that doesn't often make the news. I take the red line from Jackson up to Chicago for dr appts at northwestern. I have never seen a large group of any people. Maybe its because I'm travelling during the week during the mid day hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I take the red line from Jackson up to Chicago for dr appts at northwestern. I have never seen a large group of any people. Maybe its because I'm travelling during the week during the mid day hours. I think they've been cracking down on that stop in the past year. Maybe that is why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I take the red line from Jackson up to Chicago for dr appts at northwestern. I have never seen a large group of any people. Maybe its because I'm travelling during the week during the mid day hours. When we were traveling via bus and rail in Chicago this past April, we saw huge groups outside of "rush hour" times. We took the red and orange lines (and all of the accompanying connections due to construction). I've truly never been so afraid of the situation and the safety of the public transport and we used to live/travel in Chicago, Cincy, and NYC often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 When we were traveling via bus and rail in Chicago this past April, we saw huge groups outside of "rush hour" times. We took the red and orange lines (and all of the accompanying connections due to construction). I've truly never been so afraid of the situation and the safety of the public transport and we used to live/travel in Chicago, Cincy, and NYC often. That would be scary. Maybe that's why there are so many police now. They ride segways, bikes, they are on foot and driving. When we walk to the target on state st there is usually a paddy wagon parked in the middle lane as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Chicago has had 253 homicides this year and has a population of 2.7 million. Oakland, CA has had 46 homicides and a population of 400k. So on a per-capita basis, Oakland has a worse murder rate. I'm sure there are other cities in the U.S. that are equally crime-ridden but I don't live close to them so I'm not personally concerned about getting caught in the wrong place at the wrong time there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaceyinLA Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 So of the 1254 shooting victims as of July, 1,000 survived? I'm curious because I'm reading the links showing 1,254 shootings and wondering where the 253 homicide number is from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yep, the usual NRA style clap-trap. For some reason, I think that if I had said, "Yep, the usual gun control crowd clap-trap," a lot of people here would get their panties all in a knot. Interesting double standard though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Flint had 61 murders in 2012 with a population hovering at 100,000. it had 52 last year but also lost population. In addition, all other forms of violent crime hover at 2300ish per 100,000 making it the violent capitol of the US followed by Detroit followed off and on by Saginaw making this an atrocious cooridor of violence. The total loss of manufacturing tanked these cities as small businesses dependent on being support for the manufacturing services lost revenue and went bankrupt. Hundreds of thousands out of work, nowork to be found, famikies with money left the state at a rate of 2000 families per month at onenpoint, the rest were stuck with a nearly bankrupt state who, with nit's back against the wall due to wanton, unbridled spnding of a particular govenor and the now barren tax coffers, couldn't pay it's bills and slashed safety net programs to a maximum four years per recipient. Homelessness for families who had once been middle class became shockingly normal. Where resources are scarce, violent competition for them ensues and that war is waged in the city streets. What has happened in Chicago is heartbreaking. Truly! It is "the norm" here, but Flint, Saginaw, and Detroit are not of interest to the nantional news media...add to the list, Cleveland, Camden, ....horrible but people do not understand how many hamlets in America this is happening to because these towns are not attention grabbers for news outlets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyGF Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 They need to allow more citizens to conceal carry! That won't solve all problems but it will help! This isn't about robberies of unarmed citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 They need to allow more citizens to conceal carry! That won't solve all problems but it will help! How on earth is adding more guns to the situation going to help? They're criminals. If they don't care about the "don't shoot other people" law, they surely don't care about making sure their weapons are legal. Sure - but if you have stricter gun control, you reduce access to *illegal* guns, many of which are stolen from people who bought them legally. Compare the shooting rates anywhere in the US (even if you take out accidental shootings) to places like the UK or China, which have much stricter gun control laws. If the argument here is "well, criminals don't obey the law!" you would expect the rates to be similar - after all, criminals in the UK or China or Spain or wherever have no more incentive to follow the law than criminals in the US. But they're not. Also, don't forget that many shootings are committed by people who consider themselves law-abiding, but who draw their gun at the wrong time, thinking they'll be a "hero" or that they're in "danger" or that "they only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". Consider Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman's defense was that he thought he was legitimately in danger. Well, I don't know what he really believed deep in his heart, but let's go with that. Sure. But if there had been stricter qualifications for owning a gun, or if there had been stricter restrictions on where he could carry it around, things would not have shaken out the way they did. George Zimmerman would not have shot Trayvon, he probably would not have even escalated the situation the way he did. Odds are, Trayvon Martin would be alive today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 They need to allow more citizens to conceal carry! That won't solve all problems but it will help! How would that be an effective part of the solution to gang on gang violence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 They need to allow more citizens to conceal carry! That won't solve all problems but it will help! How will it help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 East St. Louis is also often higher than Chicago per capita, it depends on the year. I tutored in E. St Louis and would not go there after dark but it was fine during the day. I also visited Chicago when we lived there. I felt safer in E St. Louis and Chicago than certain bad areas of Los Angeles and New Orleans, actually. The big cities I have felt safest in were Tokyo and several different large cities I visited in Israel. And, they are a contrast: one with basically no guns and one with a large percentage of the population walking around armed. Right now, Tokyo is probably a better bet to visit, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Authorities: Military service member with concealed carry permit shoots attacker Gresham man injured, charged after firing on group leaving party, prosecutors saidhttp://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-military-member-concealed-carry-shoots-attacker-20140706,0,5324984.story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 So of the 1254 shooting victims as of July, 1,000 survived? I'm curious because I'm reading the links showing 1,254 shootings and wondering where the 253 homicide number is from. I'm assuming most survive, though I've no idea about the quality of life. This past weekend the news said 40 shootings, but just 4 died. Unfortunately, one of those four was the innocent 11 year old attending a sleepover and killed by a stray bullet coming through the window. I can't imagine dealing with that as a parent, friend, or host of the sleepover. Gang upon gang is one thing - not good - but not as much tugging of the heart. Eleven year olds killed at a sleepover while inside a house is a whole different issue. :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 How on earth is adding more guns to the situation going to help? Sure - but if you have stricter gun control, you reduce access to *illegal* guns, many of which are stolen from people who bought them legally. Compare the shooting rates anywhere in the US (even if you take out accidental shootings) to places like the UK or China, which have much stricter gun control laws. If the argument here is "well, criminals don't obey the law!" you would expect the rates to be similar - after all, criminals in the UK or China or Spain or wherever have no more incentive to follow the law than criminals in the US. But they're not. Also, don't forget that many shootings are committed by people who consider themselves law-abiding, but who draw their gun at the wrong time, thinking they'll be a "hero" or that they're in "danger" or that "they only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". Consider Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman's defense was that he thought he was legitimately in danger. Well, I don't know what he really believed deep in his heart, but let's go with that. Sure. But if there had been stricter qualifications for owning a gun, or if there had been stricter restrictions on where he could carry it around, things would not have shaken out the way they did. George Zimmerman would not have shot Trayvon, he probably would not have even escalated the situation the way he did. Odds are, Trayvon Martin would be alive today. Like mentioned upthread, the majority of these shootings are gang related, not by people who would even bother to consider themselves "law-abiding". These gang shootings are almost exclusively done with illegally obtained guns. Chicago had a handgun ban for many years (only recently ruled unconstitutional) and it did nothing to stop the flow of illegal guns into the hands of criminals. I am not saying this because I am pro-gun ownership. I am just saying that the strict gun control laws did nothing about this type of crime. The "law-abiding citizen" shootings that you describe are much more rare than what has been happening here in Chicago (and New York and Detroit and name many other urban areas with severe poverty.) I'm assuming most survive, though I've no idea about the quality of life. This past weekend the news said 40 shootings, but just 4 died. Unfortunately, one of those four was the innocent 11 year old attending a sleepover and killed by a stray bullet coming through the window. I can't imagine dealing with that as a parent, friend, or host of the sleepover. Gang upon gang is one thing - not good - but not as much tugging of the heart. Eleven year olds killed at a sleepover while inside a house is a whole different issue. :crying: These children who die as a result of gun violence are innocent bystanders in the gang-on-gang violence. You have stupid youth who are not exactly marksmen shooting at each other. It is not surprising that innocent bystanders get hit. Yes, it is sad. But these shootings are part of the gang violence problem. While all of this is very sad, it really isn't new. The violent crime rates in Chicago have been somewhat stable, but I believe they are getting more attention due to activism on the part of the people who have to live with this - by the families of these innocent bystanders who are tired of these incidents getting relegated to the back page of the newspaper, yet when a white kid from the 'burbs dies, it is treated as front page news. Media bias has been strong in Chicago for decades. I have lived in the Chicago 'burbs all my life and have spent lots of time in the City (as us suburbanites call Chicago.) I have rarely felt unsafe, but there are areas that I will not travel to and I am careful about the routes I take to areas that may be adjacent to some questionable areas. Those crime statistics maps are deceiving because they really don't give a sense of the actual size of the city and how many areas are not considered unsafe. I would probably be more concerned about taking public transportation, not because it in of itself is unsafe ... millions of people use it every day without incident, but because I am unfamiliar with it and am probably more of a risk making a mistake and getting myself into an area I shouldn't go to. My daughter trains with a coach in the city and has taken public transportation for some after-practice social activities, but she is always with kids who have been doing this their whole lives and know how to stay safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 For some reason, I think that if I had said, "Yep, the usual gun control crowd clap-trap," a lot of people here would get their panties all in a knot. Interesting double standard though. Don't have a clue who would or wouldn't "get their panties in all in a knot". No double standard on my part in that I honestly don't care if you say that. No offense intended ~ just doesn't matter to me. Flint, Saginaw, and Detroit are not of interest to the nantional news media...add to the list, Cleveland, Camden, ....horrible but people do not understand how many hamlets in America this is happening to because these towns are not attention grabbers for news outlets. Exactly. They need to allow more citizens to conceal carry! That won't solve all problems but it will help! Or not. I am not saying this because I am pro-gun ownership. I am just saying that the strict gun control laws did nothing about this type of crime. I hear you. I'm a gun control advocate, but the reality is that neither stricter nor more lax gun control will be a game-changer in these scenarios. The problems are deeper, more pervasive, and more difficult to address. While all of this is very sad, it really isn't new. No, it's not new. But with each new generation, the issues persist and it seems increasingly difficult to effect change & climb out of the hole. Very discouraging ~ and I admit, I'm at a loss as to how I can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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