My ds wants to enter the military should I discourage him.....

[LearnFromHome]

ladies, this is very difficult for me. I was really hoping my ds would want to go to college but the more I talk to him about it the more he rejects the idea. He says he does not want to go to college that he would rather enter the marines. He has always been homeschooled and he's a gentle, respectful young man and I'm terrified of the whole idea especially "war." I don't know anyone who has been in the military so I don't know the pros and cons about it. I just want to discourage him but I'm I doing the right thing? Please give me some advice.

Judy

[Parrothead]

It would depend on what he would want to do while in the military. Does he have a goal such as saving money for college later or maybe learning a specific job? Does the discipline of the military appeal to him? I can think of several paramilitary careers that he might be interested in instead.

[swellmomma]

My ds has plans to enter the military as soon as he turns 18 as well. He has decided he wants to join the infintry, work his way up the ranks and eventually be trained as a sniper. His father was military when I met him and got out when Austin was 1 month old, so he is not used to a military life etc. I decided to enroll him in navy league this year which is like cadets but for the younger crowd(9-12 yrs old). I think if he can thrive in the strict disciplined style they have then wars aside I would be very happy with him joining, if he can't he will learn that young enough to make other choices. I have also recommended the reserves to him, so he can be a soldier like he wants, but still attend university during the week like I want. Which son is this? the 11 or 15 year old? Perhaps have then try out cadets, encourage a military career in the reserves so they can still go to uni and get a degree etc.

[bairnmama]

My dh is currently in the Marines so I'm a bit biased, but actually the benefits are wonderful for families. Actually, I wish he would have joined right after we first got married, instead of after 4 yrs of college so we wouldn't have all these school loans to repay! While active duty, there are several colleges (mostly done online and can even be done while deployed or on ship) he can attend for free, then there is the GI Bill for use after he is no longer active duty. Yes, they are gone from home a good bit, but that also depends on the MOS and the unit assignment... I have friends that have never been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan and some that have been 4 or more times. In these times of economic uncertainty, it is really nice to have the guarantied income and housing allowances we currently have as well as the health benefits and other perks on base. If you have anything else you would like to discuss, please feel free to pm me or e-mail me. Just know that I am on sporadically right now while I'm visiting family.

[TraceyS/FL]

I think it's a very honorable thing he would like to do.

 

In fact, i'm tearing up at thinking about it. (and, i'm not lying or exaggerating, i'm just very proud to hear a young person, knowing what is going on in the world, wants to serve their country)

 

I have gone thru a similar shock when my brother early enlisted in the Marine's. HE ended up being turned down because he blew his shoulder out doing PT with his recruiting officer. That was extremely devastating to him. It was about a month before he was supposed to enter. His life worked out, but took a few years. He's now a Firefighter - serving those in Riverside County in CA.

 

The army advertises materials to help parents, perhaps a visit to the local recruiting office will give you some reading material.

 

:grouphug:

[Crissy]

As painful as it is for me to think of one of my sons in the same position as any one of the young men in a war zone at this moment, no. I would not discourage him.

I would assist him in doing a considerable amount of research so I could be confident that he is making an informed, educated decision.

 

(((Judy)))

[JoyfulMama]

My dc are not old enough to consider life plans yet, so now I speak as a sister.

My younger brother was too afraid to tell our parents that he didn't want to go to college following hs (we were in public school). So he went, and passed enough to stay in, but after his third semester he wasn't invited to return back. (Lots of money wasted.) He got a fulltime job, and began talking (finally) to my parents about joining the military. My mother was understandably upset, but consented to my brother's wishes. He joined the army reserves as a compromise, matured, learned more than he did in college, was deployed, and grew physically, emotionally, and spiritually. And he eventually did finish his degree - on the army's dime.

My brother didn't know how to answer the question "What do you want to do with your life?" And for him, college was a waste of time and money when he had no specific dreams or goals. Army encouraged him in so many ways, and exposed him to so many opportunites. His army experience helped him identify his talents, so that he could then answer that life question.

And how great that your son does not have a selfish heart - that he'd be willing to serve not himself, but others. In that, you know you've raised a good son!

[TXMomof4]

My little brother was a very quiet, respectful teenager. He graduated highschool and didn't really have any *plans*. He was taking classes at the community college, but was a little aimless and hated spending money when he wasn't sure where he was headed.

 

He joined the Army in 2001 - in the springtime. It has been the best thing in the world for him. He is a very strong leader, but had never been in a situation where he was able to lead. He has dyslexia and was never very confident because of his difficulties related to that. The army has given him so much confidence and assurance in his abilities that I almost don't recognize him sometimes.

 

He has been to Iraq twice - he'll be home in Oct. That has been terribly hard on my mother. But he has valued the experience. I won't say he has enjoyed it, but he wouldn't trade that experience either.

 

My husband is also Army - National Guard. That's kind of a different animal, and I would never recommend anyone go that route. He's going to try to go active duty while he's on this deployment. I'd rather be full time army than this in-and-out every other year.

 

If he's sure that he wants to join, I wouldn't discourage him. Some people are "warriors" as Dr. Laura calls them. That may be the only thing I agree with her about, but I think she's right. Some people have the heart and soul for service in that capacity and thank God for that. It is an honorable thing with many benefits, even if it is one of the most terrifying things to live through for their families.

 

God bless you and your son.

[Catherine]

If you see the military as a good career option, a place where he'd thrive, or benefit from the structure, then why not? Personally, I would be very upset, for any number of reasons, but I also personally know people who've grown up once they were in the highly structured environment of the military. It really depends on your family's views of military service, education and college.

[Katrina]

I personally don't think it would be wrong to share your concerns with your son. he does need to research his decision and weigh both the pros and the cons. However, if he still wants to join, please be supportive. I've seen many soldiers who don't have the support of their family and that can actually be more stressful for the family and soldier.

 

I used to be more against people joining the military, but I've seen the possitive effects it's had on my husband. If we had to do it all over again we would.

 

:patriot:

[WTMCassandra]

I suggest sitting down and asking him nicely (not threateningly) to share with you why he wants to do this.

 

Then, I would try to find him some cadet-like experiences so he can "put his toe in the water." If he's not "the type" hopefully it will emerge in his explorations.

 

I wouldn't try to force the college issue (spoken as one who fervently hopes her two dc will want to go). Take deep breaths. Lots of them. Try to be supportive and let him explore possibilities. Who knows--maybe he will change his mind?

 

Unfortunately, we have to remember that our children's lives are theirs, not ours to live. For me, it's still theory. The rubber is meeting the road for you, and I'm sure it doesn't seem that simple.:grouphug: I'm sure I will have my moments too.

[tibbyl]

Hi, Learn. I attempted to pm you but received message that your pm box was full.

 

I am *not* anti-military nor am I a pacifist.

 

But I did want to direct you to a pdf pamphlet written by American Friends (aka Quakers - they are pacifists) Service Committee for its excellent consumer information about claims made by military recruiters. It covers things that are obvious to us experienced adults that may not be so apparent to young adults ... things like read the contract before you sign, generally you cannot change your mind, you do not have right to leave if you decide you don't like military, etc. Knowledge is power as they say.

 

http://www.afsc.org/youthmil/resources/DYKETEbro2006-lg.pdf

 

Good luck with this matter. I understand your concern during these times of strife.

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

Okay, I say that because I was raised in a Marine Corps family, and the pride runs deep for the Corps. My younger brother has been in for a long time, and has a few years until retirement.

 

The Marine Corps is one of the most difficult services to enter, so I am impressed that your son has chosen it. He must be a strong young man full of character.

 

The Marines is not only about shooting guns and physical training, but its a philosophy and lifestyle. Most young men that join the Marines gain such a love and dedication to the Corps, that it is hard for many to understand.

 

If you have time, check out the book Keeping Faith written by Frank Schaeffer and his son who entered the Marine Corps. Many in the Schaeffer circle are academics and theologians, yet his son wanted to go into the Marines! This book may give you some insight on just how the Marines tick. Warning, it does contain profanity and sexual references.

 

Btw, your son's college opportunities will open up before him in the Corps as well. Is he interested in officer's training?

 

Blessings,

 

Camy

[Danestress]

The bottom line, of course, is that we have to pursue our children in reaching THEIR goals - not our goals for them. So if he really want to do this, then you are going to have to buck up and support him.

 

But I would be talking to him about WHY he wants to do it, and helping him think through the pros and cons and the other options for careers that might provide some of the same things he craves (maybe travel? Adventure? Challenge?) I would just want to broaden the discussion, if he's interested in that. He might have already decided, though. Sometimes they do, and we have to respect that.

 

My DH's years active duty were great years in some ways. They were not lucrative, and they were hard on our families - particularly DH's family. But they were good years. Many of the things I most love about my husband, I know were partly produced by his years of service. And I have never met adult men I liked more than I liked the men my DH worked with. The other men in base housing, and in our churches - those were just fine, fine men. I *really* miss people, now that we are in the civilian world.

 

One thing I will say, though, and I guess this contradicts what I just said, but I still think it's true - prepare your son for a lot of temptation. I saw some pretty ugly things - partly because DH was a prosecutor, so those things came home with him. Lots of unwed pregnancy, lots of drug use, lots of alcohol abuse.

 

I suppose any concentration of young people will have these things - nothing special about the military - but I just didn't realize it would be that way. I thought kids who join the military would be straight arrows. So prepare him for that. He's going to meet some very very honorable, hard working men (and women) who he will admire and learn from. And he's going to meet some real scum bags. He needs to to go (as all of our children do, whether they go to college or elsewhere) prepared to choose what kind of person he is and how he wants to live, and how he will deal with a great deal of temptation. And he will be far from his parents and his church and his old friends, so he will need to carry that integrity with him and find it inside himself.

 

I have three sons. One wants to be a fighter pilot. He's only 10, and I spend a lot of time saying, "Wow, organic farmer! Now that would be a great career!" and "Hey, here's a guy who makes living building lego models. Wouldn't you like to consider that?" or "I think you would make such a fine history professor."

 

But they will do what they want, in the end. We all do. My heart goes out to you. Try to be as brave as he is:)

[In The Great White North]

If he wants to go into the military and you want him to go to college, he should look at the Academies and ROTC.

 

Best of both worlds.

[Prairie~Phlox]

My 9 year old son already tells people that he wants to go into the Army. I feel if that's God's calling on him, then it will be. I am not going to discourage him, but help him on that path to get where he wants to go. He's actually been saying this for about two years. Good luck helping your son figure out what HE wants out of life.

 

Blessings,

Phlox

[Mrs Mungo]

ladies, this is very difficult for me. I was really hoping my ds would want to go to college but the more I talk to him about it the more he rejects the idea. He says he does not want to go to college that he would rather enter the marines. He has always been homeschooled and he's a gentle, respectful young man and I'm terrified of the whole idea especially "war." I don't know anyone who has been in the military so I don't know the pros and cons about it. I just want to discourage him but I'm I doing the right thing? Please give me some advice.

Judy

 

First, joining the military doesn't preclude college.

 

What does he want to get out of joining the military?

 

Job training? There are *lots* of different jobs in the military. Some are extremely useful once you get out and some aren't useful at all outside of the military. It can be hard to predict which those will be unless you are fairly knowledgable.

 

The experience and adventure? There are other possibilities he should at least take a look at such as The Peace Corps.

 

As a career? What job does he want to do within the Marine Corps? This is something he should investigate and look into long and hard before he ever steps foot into a recruiter's office.

 

Here are a few reading lists, maybe he should start there:

The Marine Corps Commandant's professional reading list:

http://home.comcast.net/~antaylor1/usmccommandant.html

 

The Marine Intel reading list:

http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/dirint/2006readinglistbro.pdf

 

Navy Professional reading list:

http://www.usna.edu/Library/Navy_Professional_Reading_Program.html

 

Military Classics from Command and General Staff College:

http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/berlin/berlin.asp

 

another list from CGSC:

http://cgsc.leavenworth.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/books/books.asp

 

Army Chief of Staff's professional reading list:

http://www.history.army.mil/reference/CSAList/CSAList.htm

 

Personally, I would *not* encourage anyone to join the National Guard or Reserves at this point. It's too unstable. Two years at home, two years active duty? It's too hard.

 

Pick his brain on this and come back to us. There are lots of military wives here. There are also a few threads that have come up in the past about this that you might search for.

[RoughCollie]

If one of my DC wanted to join the military, the one thing I would make sure of is that they know all about the military life before they join, especially if they are not joining as an officer.

 

I'd begin by asking the recruiter for a tour of a military base, including living quarters, and I'd try to get permission for my child to shadow someone who is at work doing whatever job my child wants to do (or has been told is available). I'd also find a soldier who had served at least one tour in Iraq to explain to my child what that was like.

 

The way I see it, it is my child's decision to join. It is my duty as a mother to make sure my child knows what s/he is getting into. No rose-colored glasses allowed, if I can help it.

 

That said, I did recently applaud my sister's decision to join the Air Force. She'd been married to an Army man and knew what she was getting into ... having the same father and all, she also knew it better be the Air Force she joined! :-)

 

RC

former Air Force Brat

[Peek a Boo]

well, I've already explained to my guys upfront about why i don't want them pursuing a career in the military, and yeah, i would definitely sit down with my guys and go over point by point their reasons FOR joining the military.

 

But i would likely do that w/ ANY career, and as their parent given by God to Guide them i have no reservations about doing that.

 

That being said, i would still support my guys if they ultimately did join.

 

My li'l bro spent 11 years as a Corpsman in the Navy, traipsing around w/ the Marines in Afghanistanand Iraq. He got a degree and went on to become an officer in the Marine Corps, and just received his MOS of Human Source Intelligence/ counter intelligence. He is THRILLED, and I know he will do a great job. I went to his graduations and clapped proudly and enthusiastically, and I would go to my kids' and clap too.

 

but before they join --yes, i would do what i could to find another outlet for their wants and needs.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'd also find a soldier who had served at least one tour in Iraq to explain to my child what that was like.

 

We have soldiers deployed plenty of places where they see combat, not just Iraq. For example, my own husband has served two combat tours in Afghanistan. Sorry, it may seem nit-picky, just one of those things I can't let pass by.

[jkwynn]

Wife of a career Coast Guard guy here. :D Each person will have to evaluate the pros/cons of the branch they feel most suited for, but I thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents, since sometimes, we're the forgotten branch. (Heck, sometimes we're even told we're NOT military! *sigh*)

 

This way of life has been very good to us. When he joined he wasn't sure if he wanted to get in, do his time and then get out and use the GI Bill, or stay in for retirement. We weren't exactly sure what we were in for - would we be able to handle it, would we be apart more than together, etc.

 

Sure, there are ups and downs, and plenty of sacrifices per se, but my DH is in the aviation field. There's no doubt that the job security he has now, as compared to the civilian aviation world, is a million times better. He's doing what he loves to do, and we don't worry so much about if he'll still have a job next week, kwim?

 

So we decided to stay in for the full 20 (or 30?). He'll pass the 10 year mark in a couple weeks.

 

There are things we don't 'love' of course - like deployments and having to rearrange most of the holidays, hehe, and not being close to family (well, sometimes that isn't as bad as you'd think, lol. j/k) ... but overall we're VERY happy with our lives.

 

I'm able to stay home with the kids, he racks up lots of travel, homeschool is great for our way of life, tons of education benefits for him and us, excellent family support, life-long friendships can be found at each new station (the CG is very small, barely larger than the NYPD!), leadership opportunities, advancement, ceremonies, tradition, etc - not to mention how proud we are of him. :)

 

I think it's a very honorable path to choose, but that one should be as educated as possible about the lifestyle/realities before signing on the dotted line. It can be hard, but like anything else, it just takes some getting used to. Semper Gumby. :) I've only met a couple people who got in and then hated it...and it was mostly due to misconceptions they had prior to joining.

[Jumping In Puddles]

If he wants to go into the military and you want him to go to college, he should look at the Academies and ROTC.

 

Best of both worlds.

 

This is what I was going to suggest. Academes = Free!

 

Also, ROTC helps pay for college and when you are done with college you are an officer! My friend who did this said there is a world of difference entering the service as as an officer.

[Mrs Mungo]

This is what I was going to suggest. Academes = Free!

 

Also, ROTC helps pay for college and when you are done with college you are an officer! My friend who did this said there is a world of difference entering the service as as an officer.

 

My husband had his college partially paid with an ROTC scholarship. That said, an ROTC scholarship comes with an 8 year commitment. So, again, it sort of depends upon his motivation. If he wants it as a career, yes, ROTC is the way I would recommend but probably not if he doesn't want it as a career.

[Kari C in SC]

I know EXACTLY how you feel. My ds is 19 now and has been in the Army for about a month. He says he talked about joining the military way back when he was 14. Huh? I must not have been listening. Honestly, I NEVER saw this for him. He was always the heavier kid that loved playing on the computer. At the end of 2006, we decided to make plans to move from Florida to South Carolina. This is when I remember him starting to talk about the military. He was in his senior year (homeschooling). He did not want to move to South Carolina, but the family was moving. He would tell me he wasn't going to move with us and he was just going to join the Marines. My heart about stopped each time he said it. I had his future envisioned for him. He wanted to be an EMT/Firefighter. I found the schools he needed and the volunteer fire dept. We moved in January of 2008. He hated it here and missed his friends. He got accepted at a volunteer firefighter, but didn't go that route. I kept trying to steer him that way and finally my dh sat me down to talk. He told me that our ds was determined he was going in the military. Nothing I was going to say would change that. My dh told me he needed my help to study for his ASVAB and make a good decision on MOS. I changed my attitude and became accepting of his choice. All of a sudden, my ds got busy. He was busy studying for his ASVAB and he was busy losing 60 lbs. I had never in my life seen him so determined. He went to each of the branches recruiters and eventually decided on Army. I am still terrified he will be deployed. His MOS is Artillery - so he will be deployed. I miss him like crazy and am counting the weeks till his graduation. I can't believe this little boy, my little boy became a soldier. So, that is my story. I know you didn't see this for your ds, but I guess they actually do grow up. I may not have chosen this for my ds, but I am so extremely proud of him. Yep, I am going to be one of those moms with a "Proud Army Mom" t-shirt! I am already trying to choose. LOL! Good luck and remember all you can do is pray and put him into God's Hands.

 

Oh, I forgot to tell you about the benefits... My ds had a homeschool high school diploma. This is very important. If he had a GED, he would not have qualified for the amount of bonus he did. The recruiter had to learn about homeschool diplomas, but he got it figured out. My ds ended up with a $40,000 bonus and $62,000 GI Bill to pay for college when he gets out. As another poster mentioned - in these tough economic times - I am happy to know he has a steady income, place to live and health insurance.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I just want to discourage him but am I doing the right thing?

 

It's what I would do.

 

Please consider sitting down and browsing Before You Enlist together. Here's another good site. If that's too much, maybe just watch the video on YouTube.

 

I have friends who feel that the military is ordering them to break the very oath they took to serve their country and uphold the Constitution.

[sweetbasil]

I think that you should give him your full love and support, as hard as it must be. He needs to know that you believe in him and his ability to be independent and make crucial decisions. This is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak -- when our children leave our home for the world.

 

If you discourage him and he joins anyway, he'll always remember that you didn't/don't support his choice. If you discourage him and he decides not to enlist, he may have regrets and bitterness later due to your influence. It's best to let his decision be entirely his, and just offer non-judgemental insight when specifically asked for it. Other than that, tell him that you're proud of him and that you know he will make the best decision for him.

 

But I would also strongly encourage him to spend some time talking with other men in the military so that he can get a very well-rounded view of the reality of life in the service. This isn't a decision to be made without lengthy evaluation.

 

Wishing you well!

[Laura in VA]

If one of my DC wanted to join the military, the one thing I would make sure of is that they know all about the military life before they join, especially if they are not joining as an officer.

 

I'd begin by asking the recruiter for a tour of a military base, including living quarters, and I'd try to get permission for my child to shadow someone who is at work doing whatever job my child wants to do (or has been told is available). I'd also find a soldier who had served at least one tour in Iraq to explain to my child what that was like.

 

The way I see it, it is my child's decision to join. It is my duty as a mother to make sure my child knows what s/he is getting into. No rose-colored glasses allowed, if I can help it.

 

RC

former Air Force Brat

 

Well, I may be completely off base here, but I'm not sure a tour of living quarters or shadowing someone, is a realistic option. And as a wife of an Enlisted Master Sergeant, I must say that I am just a tiny bit offended by "especially if they are not joining as an officer" :). My husband is doing what he loves, and has been in the same MOS (field) for over 18 years.

 

To the op- I would find out what he wants to do in the service, and then help him decide which route would be best for doing that job.

 

My oldest ds recently decided he wants to join the military and has decided to go the officer route because he's already in college. I have shed a few tears (in private) over this, but I will support his decision 100%. I asked him if he had prayed about it, and he said yes. My job now is to support him and pray, pray, pray.

[runninmommy]

Hi, Learn. I attempted to pm you but received message that your pm box was full.

 

I am *not* anti-military nor am I a pacifist.

 

But I did want to direct you to a pdf pamphlet written by American Friends (aka Quakers - they are pacifists) Service Committee for its excellent consumer information about claims made by military recruiters. It covers things that are obvious to us experienced adults that may not be so apparent to young adults ... things like read the contract before you sign, generally you cannot change your mind, you do not have right to leave if you decide you don't like military, etc. Knowledge is power as they say.

 

http://www.afsc.org/youthmil/resources/DYKETEbro2006-lg.pdf

 

Good luck with this matter. I understand your concern during these times of strife.

 

My DH is a recruiter. He has served 15 years in the Air Force. He has served his country admirably and honorably. He has helped hundreds of young adults make a better life for themselves. The article you posted has an insulting tone. Its implications negate all the hard work recruiters do as well as the sacrifice their families make. It implies recruiters are not to be trusted and are only out for their own agendas. This is completely untrue!!

My husband has put in 15-16 hour days 6 days a week for the last 6 years. He has made himself available to help these kids any way he can. He cares about the young people that come to him and will continue to guide them to the best of his ability.

As with any career (in and out of the military) you are going to find dishonest people.

 

These young adults should fully understand the contract they are entering. They should do as much research as possible and think long and hard about their decisions. I think this can be achieved without insinuating that recruiters are liars and only out for their own benefit.

 

 

Edited to add that the article mentioned above is completely biased and full of misinformed statements. Please do not rely on everything you read. Research for yourself.

:rant:

[Mrs Mungo]

These young adults should fully understand the contract they are entering. They should do as much research as possible and think long and hard about their decisions. I think this can be achieved without insinuating that recruiters are liars and only out for their own benefit.

 

:rant:

 

And some parts of the video are just ridiculous. I know a LOT (A LOT) of people who have been soldiers, left the military and none of them ended up *panhandling*. I also know a lot of women in the military who would dispute what this video has to say about women's experiences in the military. Sheesh. This is propaganda of the highest order.

 

Should young people do research before joining? Yes. Should they talk to current and former members of the military? Yes. Should they be aware of issues like the stop-loss policy? Absolutely. Is even the stop-loss policy what this video implies? No.

[Peek a Boo]

I think that you should give him your full love and support, as hard as it must be. He needs to know that you believe in him and his ability to be independent and make crucial decisions. This is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak -- when our children leave our home for the world.

 

If you discourage him and he joins anyway, he'll always remember that you didn't/don't support his choice. If you discourage him and he decides not to enlist, he may have regrets and bitterness later due to your influence. It's best to let his decision be entirely his, and just offer non-judgemental insight when specifically asked for it. Other than that, tell him that you're proud of him and that you know he will make the best decision for him.

 

But I would also strongly encourage him to spend some time talking with other men in the military so that he can get a very well-rounded view of the reality of life in the service. This isn't a decision to be made without lengthy evaluation.

 

Wishing you well!

 

 

I think you make some excellent points.

 

However, i would be doing my kids a disservice if I was not upfront with them. If they have bitterness and regrets because of my views, then there are likely deeper issues at stake.

 

But scripturally, I have an obligation to train up a child in the way they should go, and if I see reason to discourage a particular career then i have a duty to speak up about it-- not maintain a non-judgemental stance on it.

[Melanie]

Army brat/veteran/mil spouse here!

 

I had a great military experience. My recruiter did not lie to me - he was more than helpful. I was never given an unlawful order. No one took advantage of my youth, inexperience, or gender, which is much more than I can say for my experience in civilian workplaces. I learned how to care for and protect myself and others. I received training, education, and fantastic career experience. I only separated because I couldn't bear the thought of leaving my babies for a deployment! I don't regret my decision to enlist, and neither does my brother (who saw combat) my husband (who will be deployed - again - shortly) or any other enlisted person I've spoken to over the years.

 

I do hope my children decide to go straight to college (and I do my best to encourage that) but if they decide to enlist, then I will be behind them. They have to live their own lives.

 

By the way, not one of my buddies ended up panhandling after leaving the service. ;)

[danielle]

My husband is a former Marine Corps officer. He has become a Quaker in large part because of his experiences in the military and in Viet Nam. He says to young people who are contemplating joining the military two things. I will try to state this as well as I can for him.

 

The first is, are you ready to surrender all your decision making and morality to another person? In all situations, you must obey your commander. If you do not, you risk being shot or going to prison. If you do, you may be asked to do something terrible which is against your morals and against humanity. In the heat of extreme crisis and danger, you will have to make a split second decision. Do you know that you are strong enough to do so, and that any decision you make may torture you (and the families of the victims) for the rest of your life? No soldier ever thought he would be a party to atrocities.

 

Second, dh suggests that you visit a base hospital, or even better, the new Museum of the Marine Corps. While you are there absorbing all the glory portrayed, take a good look at the so-young men who are visiting with terrible injuries. Would your child be willing to face being maimed for life? Is he willing to maim defenseless civilians who might be caught in the crossfire? For that is the reality of war--far more innocent civilians are killed than military forces.

 

My husband says he believed he was immortal when he volunteered. So does everyone at 18--they never think that there might be these terrible consequences. Neither did any of the more than 10,000 young people currently suffering terrible injuries from this war. The count of the dead is a fraction of those who will live the rest of their lives in suffering.

 

There are many ways to be a patriot serving this country and the world. I pray our children will find other ways than joining the military. Young people should truly understand what they are getting into. There are many other ways to pay for college, mature, and see the world.

 

Danielle

 

[LaMere Academy]

My son's goal is to go into the USAFA and make the Air Force his career after, he wants to fly.

He has joined CAP and when I see him in his uniform I get upset. I think it's because I feel that it's so dangerous to be in the military AND to fly. He's going up in a small plane this next weekend, and the weekend after that he's going up in a glider.

I don't like it, I tried to discourage him. I was even upset when he cut his long hair to the short military cut. I'm not handling it well, but it is his dream and I told him he has to do what he wants, not what I want.

 

**ETA, I bought him the cadet survival book for the USAFA, and I think it gives you a perfect view of what it is really like to be a cadet. He reads it all the time.

[Mrs Mungo]

The first is, are you ready to surrender all your decision making and morality to another person? In all situations, you must obey your commander. If you do not, you risk being shot or going to prison.

 

This isn't the LEAST bit true. NEVER do you risk getting purposefully SHOT by your commander for disobeying an order!!!! HOLY COW! You are carefully taught as a soldier what does and does not constitute a lawful order. Soldiers have every right not to obey unlawful orders and have a duty to report them. Soldiers do not go to prison for disobeying unlawful orders.

 

I would also stress that the military has changed a great deal from the Vietnam era.

[Confuzzled]

Both my boys are in the military. I was scared and shocked when they each individually made the decision within the same year. I tried my best to discourage them, especially the 18-year-old, and cried a river of tears when they left.

 

They've both been gone a year now. My 22-year-old is a medic in the Air Force, stationed near Virginia Beach and my now 19-year-old is in the military police in the Army National Guard and is currently deployed in Kosovo.

 

It turns out I was wrong about my resistance. I can not put into words the difference in maturity and character I've seen in them. They are both very happy and fulfilled. If I had it to do over again, I would not have been so negative.

 

I had seen all the propaganda about the recruiters and made sure I shared that with them. I told them every negative, morbid, horrible, thing I could think of to get them to change their minds. I've since apologized to them.

 

I found the recruiters to be very informative and helpful, making sure to include me in the process. I had the same experience as a previous poster with the homeschool diploma. The recruiter didn't really know what to do with it and had to spend some time researching, but once he did, my son also got a large bonus. Both sons also had some college credits and were able to enter a rank above the bottom.

 

It was difficult to let go, but I am so incredibly proud of both of them!

 

Kris

[danielle]

I wish you were right. Unfortunately, our knowledge of history says that these moral issues will always be part of war. Some things certainly have changed since Viet Nam (more people survive who are horribly injured that just used to die, thanks to medical advances). Also, there is much more therapy available to try to help soldiers recover from the horrors they have seen and been involved in. Bottom line, when you sign up with the military, you are swearing to your willingness to kill people. If you do manage to avoid combat, you are enabling someone else to go kill in your place.

 

But sadly, involvement in atrocities continues to occur. I'm sure you're aware of the events at Abu Ghraib. Perhaps you are not familiar with the investigation of alleged atrocities in (Marine Corps) Kilo company (btw, that was my dh's old unit). Here's a link http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1198892,00.html

 

Unfortunately, I was not able to find a newer follow up. But what is described in this article is not something I would ever want my child to be involved in.

 

Danielle

[Kari C in SC]

My DH is a recruiter. He has served 15 years in the Air Force. He has served his country admirably and honorably. He has helped hundreds of young adults make a better life for themselves. The article you posted has an insulting tone. Its implications negate all the hard work recruiters do as well as the sacrifice their families make. It implies recruiters are not to be trusted and are only out for their own agendas. This is completely untrue!!

My husband has put in 15-16 hour days 6 days a week for the last 6 years. He has made himself available to help these kids any way he can. He cares about the young people that come to him and will continue to guide them to the best of his ability.

As with any career (in and out of the military) you are going to find dishonest people.

 

These young adults should fully understand the contract they are entering. They should do as much research as possible and think long and hard about their decisions. I think this can be achieved without insinuating that recruiters are liars and only out for their own benefit.

 

 

Edited to add that the article mentioned above is completely biased and full of misinformed statements. Please do not rely on everything you read. Research for yourself.

:rant:

 

I just wanted to say that my ds had a wonderful recruiter. He was a friend of a friend that traveled from NC to SC to meet with my son at least 4 times. He came and talked to both my dh and I. He gave me his number and would answer any of my questions. He also had to do a lot of leg work to make sure my ds got all the bonus he could. Somebody else may not have done all that. Anyway, I just wanted to say that we really appreciated our recruiter and had a good experience.

[tibbyl]

..

[Mrs Mungo]

Bottom line, when you sign up with the military, you are swearing to your willingness to kill people. If you do manage to avoid combat, you are enabling someone else to go kill in your place.

 

You're absolutely right about that but it's something I find an unfortunate necessity to protect our freedoms. As George Orwell said, "people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." I know enough to 100% believe, in my heart of hearts that it is necessary.

 

But sadly, involvement in atrocities continues to occur. I'm sure you're aware of the events at Abu Ghraib.

 

Perhaps you are not aware of the fact that such atrocities were neither ordered nor condoned by the military and those soldiers involved went to jail. Seventeen officers and soldiers were removed from duty. Seven were court martialed. None would have been SHOT if they had refused to go along with it.

 

 

Perhaps you are not familiar with the investigation of alleged atrocities in (Marine Corps) Kilo company (btw, that was my dh's old unit). Here's a link http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1198892,00.html

 

Unfortunately, I was not able to find a newer follow up. But what is described in this article is not something I would ever want my child to be involved in.

 

People from all walks of life knowingly participate in things that are wrong. Again, this is NOT something ordered or condoned by the US military and there is a soldier being held (his trial was recently postponed) for the killings.

[Jenne]

Army brat/veteran/mil spouse here!

 

I had a great military experience. My recruiter did not lie to me - he was more than helpful. I was never given an unlawful order. No one took advantage of my youth, inexperience, or gender, which is much more than I can say for my experience in civilian workplaces. I learned how to care for and protect myself and others. I received free training, education, and fantastic career experience. I only separated because I couldn't bear the thought of leaving my babies for a deployment! I don't regret my decision to enlist, and neither does my brother (who saw combat) my husband (who will be deployed - again - shortly) or any other enlisted person I've spoken to over the years.

 

I do hope my children decide to go straight to college (and I do my best to encourage that) but if they decide to enlist, then I will be behind them. They have to live their own lives.

 

By the way, not one of my buddies ended up panhandling after leaving the service. ;)

 

I'm an AF brat/vet/spouse, now civilian. I also left because I didn't want to risk being deployed away from my children. DH separated a few years later for a variety of reasons. I'm not going to say that my time in was perfect, but I learned a lot. Basic training taught me how to make good decisions under stress. The GI Bill and active duty education benefits got me to the second year of a master's degree (then I was recruited for a doctoral program with funding.) I lived in three different countries as an active duty airman, then another as a spouse. (Of course, when my brother was in, he served his entire time at Nellis AFB in Nevada.) Joining the military doesn't preclude college and it might give your DS some extra maturity and self-discipline when he does take classes.

 

I will admit that our families (with proud military service on both sides) are relieved that we aren't in right now. Our service was hard on them and they worried a lot. But in the end, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Mama Lynx]

I can't give you any rep just yet, but as an AF brat, wife to a Marine brat, and a mother of four sons at least one of which is likely to enter the military when he is of age ... thank you for saying the things you have said, Mrs. Mungo.

 

To the OP: What should you do? You should make sure that your son does his research, talks to as many people as he can, and investigates his decision carefully. You should tell him about your misgivings. If your hope is that he will choose a different path, you should tell him that.

 

And then you should stand back as the man you raised makes his own decisions, and you should do your best to love him and support him, even if his decision is not the one you would make.

[camibami]

Army brat/veteran/mil spouse here!

 

I had a great military experience. My recruiter did not lie to me - he was more than helpful. I was never given an unlawful order. No one took advantage of my youth, inexperience, or gender, which is much more than I can say for my experience in civilian workplaces. I learned how to care for and protect myself and others. I received training, education, and fantastic career experience. I only separated because I couldn't bear the thought of leaving my babies for a deployment! I don't regret my decision to enlist, and neither does my brother (who saw combat) my husband (who will be deployed - again - shortly) or any other enlisted person I've spoken to over the years.

 

I do hope my children decide to go straight to college (and I do my best to encourage that) but if they decide to enlist, then I will be behind them. They have to live their own lives.

 

By the way, not one of my buddies ended up panhandling after leaving the service. ;)

__________________

THis was my experience, too. I left after 8 years, when my youngest was a baby. I did 5 years active, 3 reserve, and I think it was wonderful. My DH is currently an Army officer, and we are all very proud of him.

 

Support your son in his choice. Our kids *will* make bad choices, but IMO, joining the military and serving our country is *not* a bad choice!

 

FYI, I think, but may be wrong, that it is difficult to get into a service academy as a hs'er. We're pushing the idea to the girls, LOL, and DH looked into it some. So carefully review that idea, and he would need to start doing things now to get in. I don't know if its a diploma they need, or what, but look into it ASAP (he's high school age, right?) if he even might consider an academy.

[Mrs Mungo]

FYI, I think, but may be wrong, that it is difficult to get into a service academy as a hs'er. We're pushing the idea to the girls, LOL, and DH looked into it some. So carefully review that idea, and he would need to start doing things now to get in. I don't know if its a diploma they need, or what, but look into it ASAP (he's high school age, right?) if he even might consider an academy.

 

The service academies definitely have certain criteria to follow.

 

USNA guidelines for homeschoolers (since the OPer's son is interested in joining the Marines):

http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/sthome.htm

 

West Point information:

http://www.west-point.org/academy/malo-wa/educators/HomeSchool.html

 

Air Force Academy: http://www.academyadmissions.com/admissions/howtoapply/homeschool.php

[Peek a Boo]

This isn't the LEAST bit true. NEVER do you risk getting purposefully SHOT by your commander for disobeying an order!!!! HOLY COW!

 

um, actually, i happened to be reading thru this thread while on the phone w/ my bro who is a Marine Corps officer and been hanging w/ the Marines for some time. He said he wouldn't say "NEVER"....more like "highly unlikely." If your disobedience to a lawful order is going to cost men's lives and the immediate situation warrants it, getting shot may end up being a reality. But again --that's highly unlikely. the training process for everyone involved is such that it should weed out that sort of situation, and has done a pretty good job so far.

[Melanie]

The first is, are you ready to surrender all your decision making and morality to another person?

 

What??? When precisely does this happen? I don't recall signing anything to that effect. Military personnel are trained to recognize, disregard, and report unlawful orders.

 

You're absolutely right about that but it's something I find an unfortunate necessity to protect our freedoms. As George Orwell said, "people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." I know enough to 100% believe, in my heart of hearts that it is necessary.

 

Perhaps you are not aware of the fact that such atrocities were neither ordered nor condoned by the military and those soldiers involved went to jail. Seventeen officers and soldiers were removed from duty. Seven were court martialed. None would have been SHOT if they had refused to go along with it.

 

People from all walks of life knowingly participate in things that are wrong. Again, this is NOT something ordered or condoned by the US military and there is a soldier being held (his trial was recently postponed) for the killings.

 

Thank you, Mrs. Mungo. Well said.

[In The Great White North]

um, actually, i happened to be reading thru this thread while on the phone w/ my bro who is a Marine Corps officer and been hanging w/ the Marines for some time. He said he wouldn't say "NEVER"....more like "highly unlikely." If your disobedience to a lawful order is going to cost men's lives and the immediate situation warrants it, getting shot may end up being a reality. But again --that's highly unlikely. the training process for everyone involved is such that it should weed out that sort of situation, and has done a pretty good job so far.

 

Would he have a recent (say last 50 years) example? I suspect this type of thing would have made the news.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielle

The first is, are you ready to surrender all your decision making and morality to another person?

 

What??? When precisely does this happen? I don't recall signing anything to that effect. Military personnel are trained to recognize, disregard, and report unlawful orders.

 

:iagree: They spent hours and hours on this point, emphasizing that following an illegal order wasn't a valid excuse at Nurnburg or Mei Lei. Today, they probably add Abu Graib to the list of notorious examples.

[Peek a Boo]

Would he have a recent (say last 50 years) example? I suspect this type of thing would have made the news.

 

 

Nobody said it has been implemented anytime recently, only that saying it would "NEVER" happen isn't completely accurate. It actually IS "the least bit true." It is a highly unlikely yet viable option to be exercised under dire circumstances when men's lives are in immediate danger and other courses of action are not forthcoming, applicable, or effective to remedy the situation.

note the use of HIGHLY UNLIKELY, DIRE, IMMEDIATE, and DANGER in that sentence. It's obviously not a first course of action, nor even a second or third. But the option is still on the table. and to reiterate, we are talking about a soldier's refusal to obey a lawful order. Obviously --again-- the situation will dictate a specific sequence of events and this would ONLY be reserved for situations that we haven't had to deal with in a very long time.

 

and yeah, I'm sure if it was ever exercised it certainly would make headlines. As i mentioned, that it HASN't is evidence of the great training our military receives and the solid structure of it ;)

[Peek a Boo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielle

The first is, are you ready to surrender all your decision making and morality to another person?

 

What??? When precisely does this happen? I don't recall signing anything to that effect. Military personnel are trained to recognize, disregard, and report unlawful orders.

 

 

 

I think the distinction would be made that just because something is lawful does not necessarily make it moral for every person. Since each person has a distinct level of what is moral and what is not, it would behoove one to do that research that has been suggested and make sure any lawful orders given don't contradict any moral issues one might have.

[tibbyl]

They spent hours and hours on this point, emphasizing that following an illegal order wasn't a valid excuse at Nurnburg or Mei Lei. Today, they probably add Abu Graib to the list of notorious examples.

 

I wonder why that particular soldier at My Lai felt the need to shoot himself in foot so that he would not have to participate. Maybe the soldiers felt intimidated by peer pressure as well as pressure from commanding officers? As I recall, Hugh Thompson got a very chilly reception when he returned to U.S. He was branded a traitor for threatening to fire on the U.S. soldiers if they continued the massacre of civilians. I remember nasty mean-spirited letters to editor in our local newspaper about Thompson. That was a very difficult divisive time in U.S. history.

[Mrs Mungo]

I wonder why that particular soldier at My Lai felt the need to shoot himself in foot so that he would not have to participate. Maybe the soldiers felt intimidated by peer pressure as well as pressure from commanding officers? As I recall, Hugh Thompson got a very chilly reception when he returned to U.S. He was branded a traitor for threatening to fire on the U.S. soldiers if they continued the massacre of civilians. I remember nasty mean-spirited letters to editor in our local newspaper about Thompson. That was a very difficult divisive time in U.S. history.

 

You're right. It was a divisive time in history. It also took place over 40 years ago. *Many* different protocols have been put into place by the military since then. I think we actually have a couple of different books on the subject. Many of the soldiers refused to participate, even when directly ordered to do so. Thompson and his crew actually flew some of the kids out who had been hidden. The three of them were eventually awarded medals for their intervention. Ron Ridenhour, one of the soldiers of Charlie company is the one who brought the incident to light. Twenty-six officers and soldiers were eventually charged.

 

It changed in many ways how the military operates. It's why you don't have officers who are rushed through a 90 day course anymore. It's why you have strong systems of leadership. It's why you no longer have the draft but a *professional*, all-volunteer army. It's why we have set rules of engagement that soldiers must follow.

 

Is it perfect, even today? No. Is anything? No. Any society? No.

 

There are almost THREE MILLION people in the US military, including the seven reserve components. Not all of those are going to be the best, just by sheer force of numbers. But the fact that these incidents are so isolated despite the fact we've been engaged in a global war for the last seven years shows the high standards of conduct.