poppy Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I actually agree with jasperstone, don't shun me :) How anyone can take a wealthy 'man of god' seriously, I do not know. I think it's OK to judge that, although I've got no biblical evidence :) Lots & lots of loud and clear quote from Jesus on this topic. Luke 6:20-26. Based on the text, this is not a tough one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanitaL Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I should have been clear, that's a specific reference to a specific sermon. I keep trying to give the link but it won't let me, so google "Paul Washer, Regeneration versus Decisionism". ETA - found a link! Woohoo! http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1021081230111 Ah ha. Evangelism through derision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. Matthew 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. All I know is that I don't *LOVE* money. It doesn't drive me. Does it drive JO? I betcha it does! And the reason Jesus said that it's hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God, is because money is their lord. And by going on JO books, his BEST life is now. I know mine is still to come. I don't love this world etc.... Yes, there are many, many verses telling of the wrongs of riches. But by the standards Jesus was using to speak, *I* am rich. That makes me uncomfortable judging the wealth of anyone else. I can be discerning, of course. I do think JO is a "wolf in sheep's clothes", but that is because of his false teachings, not his wealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Yes, there are many, many verses telling of the wrongs of riches. But by the standards Jesus was using to speak, *I* am rich. That makes me uncomfortable judging the wealth of anyone else. I can be discerning, of course. I do think JO is a "wolf in sheep's clothes", but that is because of his false teachings, not his wealth. Not being able to live up to Jesus's standard (just like every other human on Earth) does not mean you should ignore His teachings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Not being able to live up to Jesus's standard (just like every other human on Earth) does not mean you should ignore His teachings. I don't understand your point. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Not being able to live up to Jesus's standard (just like every other human on Earth) does not mean you should ignore His teachings.Sorry if I'm misreading the above. Do you mean Jesus' teaching, or JO's? In case you meant JO, I wrote the below. Otherwise ignore what I wrote- and YES, we can never measure up to Him, and we shouldn't ignore His teachings! So true. We all fall short daily. The Bible has clear instructions for a pastor/ preacher and how they should be. They have a huge responsibility. It's a very good idea to ignore JO's teachings, as its a false gospel etc. As with anyone that strays away from the traditional Gospel, we should expose them. We are called to be watchmen, and sound out when an enemy is around. Again totally biblical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 If you ate more than one meal today and have a different outfit to wear tomorrow with some shoes, you have NO room to talk. None. How do you justify all that wealth when there are naked, starving people in the world? I disagree. Olsteen gets his wealth not in an honest way (in my opinion) and he is VERY wealthy. Not like what you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Whoops, me thinks I totally misread the point, as I'm only on my phone and didn't read the quote part it was referring to. Sorry!!! :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Peter Singer is an interesting philosopher to read on the moral need to give away our 'riches'. I agree with him, but consistently fail to live up to that standard. That's weakness in me, not in the idea :) I'm not familiar with him, but his books look interesting. Do you have a favorite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Something that occurred to me today is that I know people who own private planes that they lend out to charity when they aren't being used. I'm not sure of the details, but it might be through this organization: http://www.angelflightwest.org/?/about_us/types_of_missions_we_fly/ I have no idea whether or not Joel Osteen donates use of his private plane in this manner, but it's a reminder that we shouldn't make assumptions about a person simply based on one thing (ownership of a private plane). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TN Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I don't have an issue with rich people - pastors or not. "Guy Smiley" has written (several, I think) best selling books and may make money with speaking engagements, etc. Many, many pastors have been quite wealthy and others not so much. That's fine with me. God places different people in different places and in different circumstances for reasons I cannot fathom. I don't believe that God is anti-wealth or anti-poverty or anti-middle class. He is concerned with the condition of a person's heart. I personally would not want to attend a mega church, but at one point in my life attended a large church and found it to be a welcome refuge of anonymity. Quite frankly, there are times now when I wish I could sit and disappear into a pleasant feel-good sermon of self-actualization and then be on my way, but I don't believe that that is what is ultimately good for me or my family or for the church at large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Sorry if I'm misreading the above. Do you mean Jesus' teaching, or JO's? In case you meant JO, I wrote the below. Otherwise ignore what I wrote- and YES, we can never measure up to Him, and we shouldn't ignore His teachings! So true. We all fall short daily. The Bible has clear instructions for a pastor/ preacher and how they should be. They have a huge responsibility. It's a very good idea to ignore JO's teachings, as its a false gospel etc. As with anyone that strays away from the traditional Gospel, we should expose them. We are called to be watchmen, and sound out when an enemy is around. Again totally biblical. I meant JC's teaching, I wouldn't capitalize "His" for JO (or any mortal man) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 The LOVE of things like money is idol worship. It is putting things before God. I was an up and becoming actress when God put it on my heart that I LOVED the job more than Him. I knew the industry was my weakness, but tried to justify it- telling God there needs to be Christians here etc... It was an excuse, as I was there for my own ego and pride. Anyway, it was a HUGE decision to walk away from it just as I was breaking into it. I had dedicated over a decade of pure commitment, blood, sweat and tears. And now I was to leave the love of my life? I got off the phone from my agent, and cried for hours. What had I done!? I prayed to God, and asked Him to take away the desire and the pain. And God in His mercy did that. Took it all away completely. And replaced it with a love for the simple things in life. Which before I didn't have- I needed BIG hits for happiness. Thought I share to help you see that it isn't just the LOVE of money that can hinder us, but other stuff as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I don't know why but I find it funny that his name can be butchered in so many different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 LOL, personally I just stick with the money thing, but point taken :) Lol, yeah, reading back it sounds a bit over dramatic, but was in a *in* the moment roll. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I don't know why but I find it funny that his name can be butchered in so many different ways. When one does the wrong thing, you got to expect that. Hey, we're being gentle too. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Something that occurred to me today is that I know people who own private planes that they lend out to charity when they aren't being used. I'm not sure of the details, but it might be through this organization: http://www.angelflightwest.org/?/about_us/types_of_missions_we_fly/ I have no idea whether or not Joel Osteen donates use of his private plane in this manner, but it's a reminder that we shouldn't make assumptions about a person simply based on one thing (ownership of a private plane). I think people were using that as but one among many reasons why they feel Osteen is unpalatable to them. I don't think it was the only thing upon which they were basing that opinion. Disclaimer: I have no dog in this fight and couldn't care less about Osteen or anyone's opinions or facts regarding him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Jesus said: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Do you really think JO is doing God's will? Is he working for God, or for himself? How can he justify all that wealth when there are people starving in the world? Also, as Christians we are taught to deny ourselves. I can confidently say JO isn't denying his self one little bit. Many false prophets have a form of godliness, and we as Christians are to judge whether or not it's the Gospel that was taught from the beginning of Christ's ministry. Which in his case, it is not. How would I know Joel Osteen's inner thoughts and motivations for/in his preaching? Nor do you? Maybe he is a sheep that is stumbling a bit and will get back on the path. Maybe he is a goat who is intentionally leading hordes to hell with his happy Jesus message. Perhaps he is just an "eye" or a gall bladder in the "Body", having a specific small but important role. Perhaps people hear his Happy Jesus message, and then go deeper into the scriptures. You and I just do not know the end from the beginning. "It' ain't over 'til it's over." I find highly judgmental people such as the heresy hunters to be adhering more to the "form of godliness" while maligning brothers by name. But God will work it all out and it is His call, ultimately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 The LOVE of things like money is idol worship. It is putting things before God. I was an up and becoming actress when God put it on my heart that I LOVED the job more than Him. I knew the industry was my weakness, but tried to justify it- telling God there needs to be Christians here etc... It was an excuse, as I was there for my own ego and pride. Anyway, it was a HUGE decision to walk away from it just as I was breaking into it. I had dedicated over a decade of pure commitment, blood, sweat and tears. And now I was to leave the love of my life? I got off the phone from my agent, and cried for hours. What had I done!? I prayed to God, and asked Him to take away the desire and the pain. And God in His mercy did that. Took it all away completely. And replaced it with a love for the simple things in life. Which before I didn't have- I needed BIG hits for happiness. Thought I share to help you see that it isn't just the LOVE of money that can hinder us, but other stuff as well. That's great, and that is YOUR call. Not everyone in that industry who is a believer is called out. That was for you. Someone else will get his own call. I have a similar story that spoke to ME, but certainly not every woman preaching to a roomful of men. Or, excuse me...."giving a testimony" as the guy who ran the shelter insisted on calling it (what do I care what he calls it?) Anyway, I was going with an 80 year old man and regularly speaking to groups about what the Lord had done for me. One time, plain as day, the LORD told me to stop focusing on my appearance prior to leaving and focus on his message. I was specifically NOT to wear makeup and wear baggy clothes, because at this time in life, I was prideful of my appearance. That message was not for anyone else - and no one else can extrapolate from my story unless God is specifically speaking to her/him about the same thing. Anyway, that night of ministry was powerful. Interestingly, the 80 year old Baptist man got up and said, "You might not think X (me) is a preacher, but let me tell you, GOD has called her to be a preacher." (Baptists do not call women "preachers". It was pretty cool). So I get what you are saying. But your call is not everyone's call (unless it is specifically sin, as if he called you out of murdering or human trafficking or something like that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 That's great, and that is YOUR call. Not everyone in that industry who is a believer is called out. That was for you. Someone else will get his own call. . . . So I get what you are saying. But your call is not everyone's call (unless it is specifically sin, as if he called you out of murdering or human trafficking or something like that). But she didn't say that her message was for anyone else, or that anyone else should do what she did. :confused1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. Matthew 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. All I know is that I don't *LOVE* money. It doesn't drive me. Does it drive JO? I betcha it does! And the reason Jesus said that it's hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God, is because money is their lord. And by going on JO books, his BEST life is now. I know mine is still to come. I don't love this world etc.... How can you make that judgment about Osteen, knowing nothing about him? He inherited Lakewood and some property from his father. He wrote a couple of books. I've not read the book "Your Best Life Now", but I would assume that means quit bellyaching about the past that you cannot change and realize NOW is all you have on this earth to do your best and most, until heaven. I wouldn't automatically judge him as saying now on earth is better than heaven, as you have done. We all know it isn't, with sickness, death, war, and horrible weather killing people all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 But she didn't say that her message was for anyone else, or that anyone else should do what she did. :confused1:Yeah, she kind of did. Joel Osteen is not supposed to be wealthy because Jasperstone chose to quit her acting career which makes her a "better Christian". So, in order to be a "real Christian", one must only be as wealthy as, or less wealthy than Jasperstone. Because western "wealthy" is not really wealthy, it's just life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Who was it who said "It's not a sin to be rich, but it is a sin to die rich?" Google says Rick Warren, I'm not sure it originated from him. I'm not really familiar with him at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 But she didn't say that her message was for anyone else, or that anyone else should do what she did. :confused1: No, but the implication that it was sinful was there. I was just pointing out that it is not inherently sinful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Yeah, she kind of did. Joel Osteen is not supposed to be wealthy because Jasperstone chose to quit her acting career which makes her a "better Christian". So, in order to be a "real Christian", one must only be as wealthy as, or less wealthy than Jasperstone. Because western "wealthy" is not really wealthy, it's just life. Exactly! By the way, Joel Osteen takes no salary. He worked for his father for a reasonable amount for a few decades. Then he wrote a couple of books that happened to be big sellers and we really don't know what he does with the money, just because he has some. I did read that about him. I'm simply not prepared to judge him based on that, but everyone obviously does not feel the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanitaL Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Who was it who said "It's not a sin to be rich, but it is a sin to die rich?" Google says Rick Warren, I'm not sure it originated from him. I'm not really familiar with him at all. Andrew Carnegie said it was a disgrace for a rich man to die rich - maybe that's the origination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Who was it who said "It's not a sin to be rich, but it is a sin to die rich?" Google says Rick Warren, I'm not sure it originated from him. I'm not really familiar with him at all. I don't know if I agree with that statement either, but I do believe that, "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required." Each follower of Christ has to decide for himself/herself what exactly that means, and how to live that teaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Well, I don't care whether or not anyone thinks I'm entitled to judge Joel Osteen. All I know is that every time I happen to see the guy on TV, he strikes me as incredibly phony. And his wife seems even more plastic and rehearsed than he does. Others are free to feel any way they would like about him, but I don't view him as being sincere at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Then why the heck does he have a private plane! I seriously cannot understand defending the wealth of a man of god. Poverty, chastity, obedience, anyone ? It's ugly that we don't consider ourselves as having excess wealth. Compared to most of the world we are incredibly rich. But it's even uglier for a preaching man to be making anything more than a humble living for himself and his family. I hope he donates everything he makes from his books/tours beyond a salary that is the median wage. Religion should never be a business and profit has no place in it. A quick Google search reveals his net worth at forty million. It is true he gave up his church salary of $200,000/year at some point since his book success. Not that that salary was chump change to start with. I do find it hard to see why he would feel justified to have a $40m net worth, even if he did quit drawing a church salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Exactly! By the way, Joel Osteen takes no salary. He worked for his father for a reasonable amount for a few decades. Then he wrote a couple of books that happened to be big sellers and we really don't know what he does with the money, just because he has some. I did read that about him. I'm simply not prepared to judge him based on that, but everyone obviously does not feel the same. He inherited a fortune and ministry of 15,000 people. I'm not saying it makes him a bad person, at all. I don't think he IS a bad person. But he's not exactly the self-made man, which is what your post makes it sounds like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Yeah, she kind of did. Joel Osteen is not supposed to be wealthy because Jasperstone chose to quit her acting career which makes her a "better Christian". So, in order to be a "real Christian", one must only be as wealthy as, or less wealthy than Jasperstone. Because western "wealthy" is not really wealthy, it's just life. We'll have to disagree on this. Jasperstone did not say that it made her a "better Christian." (And even if she did, she also did not say that anyone else should do what she did.) I honestly don't understand how people can make these giant leaps. Do you really believe what you are saying, or are you unintentionally misinterpreting what is said? Is it not enough to disagree, do you have to make something up to prove some sort of point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Nm, thought better of it. Better things to do with my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 So if I write multiple books, all of which become best sellers, and I make $40M off the deal, I can't keep it if I happen to also be in ministry of some sort? A quick Google search reveals his net worth at forty million. It is true he gave up his church salary of $200,000/year at some point since his book success. Not that that salary was chump change to start with. I do find it hard to see why he would feel justified to have a $40m net worth, even if he did quit drawing a church salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 We'll have to disagree on this. Jasperstone did not say that it made her a "better Christian." (And even if she did, she also did not say that anyone else should do what she did.) I honestly don't understand how people can make these giant leaps. Do you really believe what you are saying, or are you unintentionally misinterpreting what is said? Is it not enough to disagree, do you have to make something up to prove some sort of point? Thank you ThisIsTheDay, yeah, can't recall saying that either. I just wanted to share that there are lots of things one can put before God. And when the drive overrides everything else in becomes problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 If someone in ministry makes 40 million off anything, I sincerely hope most of it goes to charity. If you want to be a business person, go into business, not the church. Exactly, he should leave God out of it, and stick to motivational speaking only. The two don't mix. One calls us to take up our cross and follow Him. And to deny self etc... The other is to focus on *making it* in this world. To feed the self with self esteem and other stuff. The two are totally at odds. And before someone misreads what I meant- I'm talking about FOCUSING on SELF, not a normal healthy self esteem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 If someone in ministry makes 40 million off anything, I sincerely hope most of it goes to charity. If you want to be a business person, go into business, not the church. I will readily admit that this is where I feel I sometimes judge others and wish I didn't. It is so hard, though. When dh and I get ahead in finances, there is always someone who needs it more than us and we give it away. It just feels wrong to us to hold on to money when so many others are in need. I can't imagine if I had made ministry my life and kept a fortune. It's also the background dh and I come from that influences that. I grew up in a family that had nothing but my parents always found some way to give to help others. Dh's parents were in the ministry and they never had anything but the necessities. The idea that someone heads a church and is very wealthy is something I can't wrap my head around, so I try to imagine that most of that is being given away. If not, I don't understand (it doesn't matter if the money is from book sales, either). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I completely disagree. He works. He writes books. Just because he also happens to be a pastor, doesn't mean he can't keep the money. He didn't scam his congregation into giving him the money. People bought BOOKS! He wrote them. I am not a JO fan, but on this topic, I think it doesn't matter. And you know what, he does give to charity, I don't have exact figures but I do know he gives generously because our mission has been a recipient of that charity. If someone in ministry makes 40 million off anything, I sincerely hope most of it goes to charity. If you want to be a business person, go into business, not the church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I'm confused. You, as Christians want to "spread the word" to everyone as per the bible. There's a charismatic (maybe? I assume...) man doing just that to multi-thousands of people, but because he also happens to write best-selling books, he should stop trying to convert people to the word of God? So which is it? Are we ALL children of God, should we ALL spread the "good news", or is it only those who are not rich? Every single one of us is RICH by the bible standards, so NONE of us have any room to judge. How is that not clear? It pisses me off to see supposed Christians acting the least like Christ in any way. FWIW, I have not even googled who this JO dude is, have not ever even heard of him before this thread, have Not read his books. My problem is directly with the judgy judgerson "Christians" on this thread deciding who does or does not meet the criteria of calling themselves such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Funny how little this "judge not" business came into play in that Hobby Lobby thread. I'll keep that in mind for the future. Birth control and gay marriage are matters to be judged, wealth acquisition by pastors is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Those doing the wrong thing are the ones who have misrepresented what judging really means. I have heard them preach on it numerous times. Its their protection shield, and their catch cry is- don't touch the anointed. The bible is quite clear that we are called to make judgments on those that are destroying the faith that was once delivered to us in its pure and simple form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I'm confused. You, as Christians want to "spread the word" to everyone as per the bible. There's a charismatic (maybe? I assume...) man doing just that to multi-thousands of people, but because he also happens to write best-selling books, he should stop trying to convert people to the word of God? So which is it? Are we ALL children of God, should we ALL spread the "good news", or is it only those who are not rich? Every single one of us is RICH by the bible standards, so NONE of us have any room to judge. How is that not clear? It pisses me off to see supposed Christians acting the least like Christ in any way. FWIW, I have not even googled who this JO dude is, have not ever even heard of him before this thread, have Not read his books. My problem is directly with the judgy judgerson "Christians" on this thread deciding who does or does not meet the criteria of calling themselves such. I don't think he should stop. I said that I do find myself judging the money part and wish that I didn't. In a perfect world for me he wouldn't stop spreading the word but he would stop keeping all the money (if he is, which I said I didn't know). That's because I feel there are so many others out there that need it more than he does. I don't really know anything about him at all. I also don't ever try to decide who is a Christian or not. That's not me. I was just honest with myself in this thread and said the money thing bothers me. Also, for the record, I've never felt it was my duty to "spread the word". I have instead felt it was my duty to live a life that reflects God's love and hope other see Him through me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Ah, now we're getting somewhere. I DON'T believe in that EQUALITY for ALL is possible. Ever. Equal opportunity is important. Equal rights are important. Equal status and financial standing - impossible. As humans we should help each other out, not necessarily just financially, but it's not for me to say who should provide what help. I can only control my own actions. I also don't believe spirituality has anything to do with financial standing. There are assholes at both ends of the spectrum and everything in between. Same goes for good guys. The more "good guys" there are with the means to share, the better it is for everyone below, no? If no one has anything to share, how is anyone better off? Keeping in mind that there is still not equality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I have to say, if I was up for conversion, Horton would do a better job of softening my heart better than JO ever would. Apparently, not everyone agrees, since we are discussing the leader of a Mega-church. ;) ^^ Saying this lightheartedly. And please remember, I still have no idea who this guy is. Still haven't googled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 One weekend's (tax exempt) income: $600,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Apparently, not everyone agrees, since we are discussing the leader of a Mega-church. ;) ^^ Saying this lightheartedly. And please remember, I still have no idea who this guy is. Still haven't googled. If you see him, I'll bet he'll creep you out, too. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Reckon he's loan me the cash to get my wisdom tooth out ? :) No. But if you make a generous donation, he might just pray for your tooth to be healed. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 One weekend's (tax exempt) income: $600,000 And? That's the church, not his personal money which has been said over and over again he doesn't take a salary. If we want to get into beliefs and money re:churches here's mine: I don't believe in tithing. At all. Or church "membership". It skeeves me out that ANY church asks for or requires money, ever. And, for that matter, religious institutions would NOT be tax exempt if I had my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 No "and". I thought it was a striking visual. I saw it earlier and thought it was more useful than looking at the fellow's mugshot. When I hit google to share the image, I saw the story about the theft. I thought it was a lot of money. If $600,000 is the typical weekend donation income, that is over $7 million annually. I agree with you about churches not being tax exempt. I'm sure the church does some charitable work, but income towards the community itself is not charity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I don't have an opinion on JO one way or another (I think maybe I said that earlier in this thread?), but out of curiosity I just Googled Billy Graham's net worth. Several sources cite it as being right around $25 million. And yet I've never heard anyone make any issue out of his wealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I don't have an opinion on JO one way or another (I think maybe I said that earlier in this thread?), but out of curiosity I just Googled Billy Graham's net worth. Several sources cite it asbeing right around $25 million. And yet I've never heard anyone make any issue out of his wealth.Yep, same goes to him plus other things. Apparently, he is a 32rd Freemason. He is behind the pushing of the Ecumenical Movement. And he has also taught some dodgy stuff. So he isn't in the clear either. ;-) Same and more goes to Benny Hinn!!! How blind are the people following him? Seriously! Oh, also Kenneth Copeland, and what's that woman's name with the $40,000 toilet? Her name fails me at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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