Hakim History of US - Reservations? Alternatives?

[dauphin]

I was excited with my plan to use HofU as a "spine" for next year but some of the criticisms online (non-Hive) have given me pause. Primarily regarding errors and revisionist/progressive (?relativistic - did I read that somewhere?) slant. If you had reservations about it after reviewing it, what were they? What alternatives did you prefer.

 

Here's more info on what I'm looking for:

 

DD will be in 6th grade. This will be our second full year of homeschooling. She is a strong reader so I could give her lots of independent reading. We've dabbled in living books so I'd love to incorporate some, but:

 

I want a framework - I was considering relying upon Hakim as the spine in the sense of the organizing framework. We also just left CC but the preplanned framework (although it's only 24 weeks) for Cycle 3 (US History and Geography) is very appealing (eg for each history peg "sentence", there are lots of blogs,PDFs, etc that key the pegs to Netflix, SOTW, Kingfisher, and others (including Hakim!)).

 

We might have preferred to stick to the SOTW rotation but we just finished two consecutive years of SOTW 2 era (due in part to the schedules of the private classical school we left and then CC Cycle 2), AND there's a group of families all rotating through SOTW together that I'd like to start aligning with, but you'll never guess which year of SOTW they'll be on next year. Harrumph.

 

Additionally, most of the schools in our area do US History in 5th grade and travel to DC. DD hates that we missed that...we could probably wrangle a mom/daughter trip by the end of next year if we plan ahead...

 

When I asked DD what she would like to learn about most in US History, she said "the interesting things that not many people know." Ummm, okaaay, I guess that definitely rules out traditional textbooks!

 

So if we align up with the local families starting next year, it's my understanding that we will hit YS History some more in the context of World History. So maybe I'm looking for guidance on just what to cover, considering that...but maybe that's another post...

 

I didn't care much for how conversational Mystery of History was, I felt like it talked down to the reader too much. Could that also be an issue with Hakim? I've read that Hakim is conversational too. Dd reads and enjoys SOTW independently.

[EKS]

I can't stand the original edition of a History of US, but the *concise* edition from K12 is much, much better.  It wanders less and the layout is beautiful (I couldn't even stand to look at the original edition).   I've read both editions from start to finish aloud, BTW.

 

I looked far and wide for an alternative to Hakim and couldn't find one.  Luckily the concise version came out during my search and it worked for us.

 

[Murrayshire]

EKS~ do you think the concise version would be too simple for 7th & 8th grade years? I was thinking of using it for my middle dd for those two years. As of now, she enjoys a more simpler text, but that may change within the next year.

 

OP~ Sorry to butt in. 😬

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

We used the 10 volume set and have really enjoyed them. I don't consider them revisionist.

[EKS]

EKS~ do you think the concise version would be too simple for 7th & 8th grade years? I was thinking of using it for my middle dd for those two years. As of now, she enjoys a more simpler text, but that may change within the next year.

 

OP~ Sorry to but in. 😬

 

It would be expensive, but you could get through the books in one year.  Also, the concise version hasn't been simplified.  It's just more clear.  So if the original version is at the right level for your daughter, the concise version will be fine as well.

 

[Alte Veste Academy]

We have and love Hakim's 11 volume series. I find it well balanced. Because your DD wants fun details, I highly recommend supplementing with every Steve Sheinkin American history book. His books are the best for fun details. 

 

You really need to look at samples though because, yes, many people dislike it because of the conversational tone. It might be too chatty and "silly" for a 6th grader. It wasn't so for me, and I'm a grown woman. LOL But people like different things. It has never bothered me. Then again, I think it is great for kids in younger grades too (so long as they can keep up with the copious details), so I'm sure that affects my acceptance of the sometimes informal tone.

[Alte Veste Academy]

EKS~ do you think the concise version would be too simple for 7th & 8th grade years? I was thinking of using it for my middle dd for those two years. As of now, she enjoys a more simpler text, but that may change within the next year.

 

OP~ Sorry to but in. 😬

 

Not EKS, and I don't use the concise edition (although I did once see a set at Half-Price books :tongue_smilie: ), but I want to say that the writing is simple. In my opinion, what makes it a reasonable choice for middle school age kids is the enormous amount of detail to be followed. 

[Momto6inIN]

We used the concise version with my boys this past year - 6th & 8th grades.  They both loved it and learned a lot from it.  To be honest, so did I.  :)  There is a ton of information in there that I didn't know, lots of little details that keep it interesting, but also good in that it shows the big picture too.  Hakim's style is chatty & conversational, but she doesn't talk down to you like you're a little kid at all.

 

As far as progressivism goes ... you can definitely tell she leans left of center ... even my boys could pick that out, especially towards the end of the 4th book when she gets closer and closer to today's politics and today's leaders.  But I'm quite conservative and I felt she did a good job of not telling kids what to think one way or the other.

 

We definitely plan on using her books again when my girls get to middle school and we go through the US History part of the history cycle again.

[Momto6inIN]

Also - we really appreciated the concise version.  I can't imagine trying to get through all 10 books in one year - the reading would have been waaaaaaay too much for my boys, even though they're voracious readers.  The concise version worked out to about 2-3 chapters/day, which was plenty for us.

[kaymom]

We used them with TOG year 2.  My son is in 5th grade and we both enjoyed the books.  I have to say I feel like she has a good way of bringing US history to life.  She gives quite of bit of depth to the people and the times--so that history doesn't feel like fact learning, but understanding who these people were.  Yes, there are a few opinions (we only used book 2 and 3), but I never felt that they were totally off kilter, and I am a conservative. And they were usually hidden as questions for the students to think about.   I don't know my history well enough to know if the books contain mistakes or not.  I love the book series and would highly recommend it.  I think that it is perfect for middle school and would be way too detailed for younger children.  Sonlight uses the series for late middle school and high school in their Core 100, so that should tell you something.  We also had the book from Audible along with the paperback to look at--lots of great artwork and details.

[ocelotmom]

I have the 11 book set. I'd much prefer to have the concise edition! I think the full set is way too much for one year, especially as a spine (implying that you're using other resources as well).

[EndOfOrdinary]

My family lineage is Native.  My husband's is Confederate (he is actually named after Robert E Lee - seriously Confederate).  As a result, U.S. History is a very difficult subject for our family to find any version which includes much about the victims.  Her history is not revisionist any more than most.  My issue is the Rah Rah! America! patriotism which tends to ignore the point of view of anyone who did not win.  It frustrates me immensely.  History should not only be what our current culture wants to talk about.  There are some very uncomfortable things that famous people have done, that our nation has done, and those are not covered in Hakim's text other than very superficially.

 

This is not to say that I believe our country is constantly screwing up.  I just feel like if you are going to talk about the Civil War, you need to acknowledge that it had very, very little to do with any kind of moral values.  It was a political power play.  The North were being bullies and we have whitewashed it into being caring.  Anti-Slavery was good, but we screwed up a lot of people's lives as well and that never gets talked about.

 

I feel like we need to discuss that Manifest Destiny allowed the Puritans to behave in a very "un Christian" way.  Very little is ever discussed about how the basis of our founding documents were from the beliefs of the Puritans (which were quite good), but at the same time, they deliberately created genocide.  Because, they were people.  Just as messed up, ignorant, flawed, and doing the best they could as much as I am.

 

She does not do a very good job of covering such things, IMO.  But there aren't too many text books that do.

 

[Ravin]

My favorite alternative is Zinn's Young People's History of the United States. If we were homeschooling next year that's what we'd use.

 

Of course, if you think Hakim is too left of center you may not like it. But if you think "question everything" is a good approach, it's a great starting point for discussion.

 

For an idea of the tone, chapter one introduces Columbus' arrival in the New World from the point of view of the Arawak people.

[dauphin]

Thanks for all the discussion/feedback, everyone! FTR, I have already purchased the 11-volume set. So if I were to see the concise set at a used curriculum sale locally, I'd be tempted to pick it up but IDK that I'd go hunt it down then resell the 11-volume set.

 

EofO, I'm curious what resources you -have- liked.

 

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

These are some of the better ones we have used.  Though, I warn you, if your child likes this version of history traditional text become rather hard to read.  They also will most likely not test well on traditional texts.  Paul Revere was drunk and actually warned the least amount of people. There were really five riders: William Dawes, Samuel Prescott, Isreal Bissel, and Sybil Ludington.  Sybil Ludington (a 16 year old girl) warned most of the people and she did it side saddle defending herself against robbers with a large stick.  My son got this wrong on a test, until his teacher looked it up.  His grandparents also told me that we were misteaching him, until they started looking things up too.

 

Lies My Teacher Told Me and Lies Across America both by James Loewen

 

Founding Mothers: The Women Who Raised our Nation and Ladies of Liberty: Women Who Shaped Our Nation both by Cokie Roberts

 

Revolutionary Mothers: Women In the Struggle for America's Independence by Carol Berkin

 

Mary Chestnut's Diary by Mary Chestnut

 

Battle Cry of Freedom by James McPherson

 

Iron Jawed Angels (Movie)

 

Legends, Lies, & Cherished Myths of American History by Richard Shenkman

 

That's Not In My American History Book by Thomas Ayres

 

America's Hidden History: Untold Tales of First Pilgrims, Fighting Women, and Forgotten Founders Who Shaped a Nation by Kenneth C. Davis

 

[Luckymama]

Lies My Teacher Told Me and Lies Across America both by James Loewen

 

Founding Mothers: The Women Who Raised our Nation and Ladies of Liberty: Women Who Shaped Our Nation both by Cokie Roberts

 

Revolutionary Mothers: Women In the Struggle for America's Independence by Carol Berkin

 

I second these. I read them last summer before we embarked on a year of US history. Dd is the type of student who wants to know all sides and perspectives if possible ("Mom, history is written by the winners. And the men." Generally said with great derision.).

 

I didn't have time to get to the other titles nor to other books I found at the library.

[Hunter]

Which version is the audible.com series?

[Running the race]

Which version is the audible.com series?

 

I'm pretty sure it's the 11 volume set. I own both the print and audible versions. I know my oldest listened to them.

[kaymom]

Which version is the audible.com series?

Mine followed the revised 3rd edition.  Hope that helps.

[Hunter]

The 11 volume set is the revised 3rd edition?

[Χά�ων]

We used the 10 volume set and have really enjoyed them. I don't consider them revisionist.

This. 

 

I added in quality historical fiction for discussion and DS watched documentaries as well.

[unfrumpable.]

My favorite alternative is Zinn's Young People's History of the United States. If we were homeschooling next year that's what we'd use.

 

Of course, if you think Hakim is too left of center you may not like it. But if you think "question everything" is a good approach, it's a great starting point for discussion.

 

For an idea of the tone, chapter one introduces Columbus' arrival in the New World from the point of view of the Arawak people.

 

Ravin, are you referring to the single volume of this book or the multi-volumes or are they basically the same? I looked this up on Amazon and saw this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States-Volume/dp/1583227598/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0B6DDS6ERYH16QP758WM

 

But also this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Young-Peoples-History-United-States/dp/1583228691/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

[texasmama]

The 11 volume set is the revised 3rd edition?

We own the 11 volume set, the revised 3rd edition.  It is on the docket for next year.  I appreciate this discussion and the additional resources listed.

[Walking-Iris]

LOVE the Hakim books. Reading them aloud with my ds this year and using the Oxford University Press guides for discussion and writing activities (really more activities in each guide than I could ever get to) and doing the Check Ups at the end has really solidified my ds's knowledge of our history. We've had a great US history year. We didn't get to all of the books. I noticed some modern history was starting to trouble my ds (child labor, the World Wars, assassinations, slavery, race issues) so I have started to cherry pick through the books. 

 

I think you can tell she is "left" of course, but not at all in an overwhelming way. I'm also no slouch when it comes to US history and I didn't find them "revisionist" at all. 

 

I didn't find them expensive because I bought them one book at a time, used, on Amazon, sometimes for a few dollars. We have the 3rd edition. But I was also buying the teacher guides. That sort of amped up the price as well. My local library has them, and i did think about using those. But I admit I was partial to the colored photographs and glossy pages. 

 

I think they are wonderful books!!! I want to try her science books as well.

 

 

 

 

[ocelotmom]

I didn't find them expensive because I bought them one book at a time, used, on Amazon, sometimes for a few dollars. We have the 3rd edition. But I was also buying the teacher guides. That sort of amped up the price as well. My local library has them, and i did think about using those. But I admit I was partial to the colored photographs and glossy pages. 

 

Yes, they are a fantastic resource for the (used) price - tons of ex-library/school copies out there. I got the whole set for about $35, most of it from betterworldbooks.com during a sale.

 

I just wish the concise edition was anywhere near as easy and inexpensive to find used!

[Ravin]

Ravin, are you referring to the single volume of this book or the multi-volumes or are they basically the same? I looked this up on Amazon and saw this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States-Volume/dp/1583227598/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0B6DDS6ERYH16QP758WM

 

But also this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Young-Peoples-History-United-States/dp/1583228691/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

I was referring to the single volume version, but the two volume set looks cool.

[unfrumpable.]

I was referring to the single volume version, but the two volume set looks cool.

 

Looking at the more closely, it looks like the two volume set is the same as the one volume, just split into two smaller books.

[Momto6inIN]

I just wish the concise edition was anywhere near as easy and inexpensive to find used!

 

I found mine for ~$20 each on ebay.  I didn't think $90 ($80 for books + $10 for Hewitt's test packet) was too bad for a year's worth of history that can be reused indefinitely.  YMMV

 

[Hunter]

Is the 2nd edition the 10 volume set? What was the first edition?

[Saddlemomma]

These books were scheduled with our TOG plan this past year.  We had absolutely no problems with them.  DD loved them.  I didn't see any extreme biases and thought topics were handled very fairly.  We're a conservative family.

[jmccumbers]

Is there a link to the consise edition of Hakim's books that is being talked about. I have a book that might be it, but I'm not sure.

 

Also, to the op, have you looked at biblioplan? It uses Hakim's books as one of the spine options, but has other options such as their companion book that are from a Christian perspective. They are scheduled together, so you would get the best of both worlds. We are trying for the first time staying in August with year 4.

[Haiku]

I am as liberal as they come. I was sure that I was going to love Hakim. I hated those books. I read the first three and couldn't make myself go farther. Her writing style really grated on me and, imo, she does a really bad job of being even remotely objective. Her liberal bias is extreme even for me. I don't necessarily mind that, as I am a big fan of Zinn, but what really got me is that she repeated some of the liberal myths about history that have been debunked. I can't stand shoddy scholarship.

 

The series that I do like and recommend is Drama of American History by the Colliers. I don't necessarily agree with their point of view all the time, but they do make an attempt to present both (or more) sides of the argument/viewpoint. I find it more balanced, the books are shorter (and you don't need to read them all, as there is overlap), and they are able to keep a narrative, conversational tone without the irritating quality of Hakim.

 

As a bonus, the books are all around $5 for Kindle.

[Smithie]

We are reading through the 11-volume set and really liking it. My thought is that once we've finished with Hakim (which will take 2 more years at the pace we do it), my kids will be ready for high school texts. Ideologically, I really like how she consistently points out that most people are neither all bad nor all good, most cultures are neither all bad nor all good, our job now is to move forward justly with the situation we've inherited, etc. That's the mindset I want my children to have about their ancestors (and the peoples their ancestors displaced). A little rah-rah America in the grammar stage is no bad thing IMO. 

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

Thank you Tara!  I am not overly liberal, but I have been looking for good American history resources that are balanced.  The sample I read of Hakim's book (and granted, I have not read the whole books) seemed very biased by what was presented and how and just left a really bad taste in my mouth.  I will definitely check these out.  I have also been looking at Guerber's History books for older years too as a framework/spine.  Right now, I plan to use Story of the World as a framework (as we are in third grade still) with a deep pit stop for American history using a lot of living books.  The D'Aulaire's have some good books on many of the characters in history.  I would also recommend looking at the reading list from Tapestry of Grace or Sonlight for some good library books.  

[countrymom_3]

I have recently been watching the series on PBS and the History channel based on her books. While its not perfect is has been enjoyable and I would use it as a supplemement to US History. These can be found on the PBS app or History channel app. I personally watch them using my apple TV. 

 

Sonlight's US history is amazing and is laid out for you with books, discussion, etc. 

 

You may also consider Notgrass American History, which is great!