mirabillis Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I've seen all sorts of Math schedules on here for middle school & high school. You know, like 7th grade Algebra, 8th Geometry, 9th Alg II, etc... But what about Science? Anyone have a recommended schedule - either from their local school district - or that they plan to use? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 In the US, you'll sometimes see: Earth science, life science (easy bio), physical science (easy chem and physics) in middle school and then biology, chemistry, physics and maybe an AP or elective in 12th. But there's a lot more variation than the typical math sequence. In a way though it's kind of backwards -- physics is useful for chemistry and chemistry is useful to understand biology. But physics requires some math, so it traditionally goes later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I started out planning on progressing through the standard topics step by step. It took me awhile to realize we wanted a much more individualized progression. My oldest did a mix of animals, earth, and such in 6th, General Science in 7th, and Physical in 8th. In hindsight I would have tried exposing him to the wonder of science in as many different fields as we could squeeze in. He didn't/doesn't care much for science, and steady plugging through curricula didn't help. My second did General Science in 6th, Physical in 7th, and homemade architecture for 8th. In hindsight I would have taken her off the standard track sooner, though she did enjoy General. My third will do ocean life, weather, and astronomy in 6th this fall (as his history traces the development of ships, planes, and spacecrafts. For 7th he is trying to talk me into building a course based on steam and combustion engines and the vehicles that use them. For 8th I have high school biology in mind, so he can get it out of the way and spend high school overloading on physics and chemistry. He may have a vastly different opinion by the end of 7th, and we'll hold off decisions until then. Kiddos #4, 5, and 6? I don't have one bloomin' clue. Ask me when they're closer. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirabillis Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 Thanks ladies! Anybody else for science schedule? I found it so helpful to plan middle school/high school in advance like:Algebra IGeometryAlgebra IITrigPre-CalcCalculus Anybody have anymore science schedule ideas? ;-) Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Inman Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Ok i will play though i am just playing around with the high school schedule. We followed WTM rotation and are staying with it through middle school. High school we will move to a more traditional schedule. 5th - Biology 6th - Earth Science (currently finishing this year) 7th - Chemistry 8th - Physics (conceptual) 9th - Biology 10th - Algebra based Physics? 11th - Chemistry (this is not in 10th because i want him to do it at the community college and he has to be 11th for that) 12th - AP or advanced Physics? It seems like a lot of physics, but as he wants to be an engineer or some related field, it's not a bad thing. FYI, he'll be doing Algebra in 7th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 There is a reason for the math schedule, since math builds on itself and earlier courses are prerequisites for later ones. No such thing is true for the way science is taught in this country. From a philosophical point of view, any science sequence should begin with physics as this is the most fundamental of sciences, then chemistry since it is an application of physics, then biology which incorporates a lot of biochemistry. Since none of these can be studied in a systematic manner without certain math prerequisites, this order does not apply to middle school, and most high schoolers do not have the necessary math either to follow this progression. Beyond this, all "schedules" are a matter of convenience and preference, not a logical sequence. We do interest led science in middle school and have studied what my kids were interested in: earth science, astronomy, physical science, a bit of biology... I would try to use middle school as a time for broad science exposure and cover topics not usually included in the high school science lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Ok i will play though i am just playing around with the high school schedule. We followed WTM rotation and are staying with it through middle school. High school we will move to a more traditional schedule. 5th - Biology 6th - Earth Science (currently finishing this year) 7th - Chemistry 8th - Physics (conceptual) 9th - Biology 10th - Algebra based Physics? 11th - Chemistry (this is not in 10th because i want him to do it at the community college and he has to be 11th for that) 12th - AP or advanced Physics? It seems like a lot of physics, but as he wants to be an engineer or some related field, it's not a bad thing. FYI, he'll be doing Algebra in 7th. This is not related to the OP, but I feel the need to comment on your schedule. please do not make your son take conceptual, algebra based, and calculus based physics. he will be bored, since all three courses cover the same material at varying levels of depth. If he has algebra in 7th, there is no need for conceptual physics in 8th; he could be taking a real algebra based course. Alternatively, if he is interested in physics, there are so many topics that are not usually covered in the high school physics course that he could study instead of a yet another go at mechanics&e&m: thermodynamics, modern physics (this term usually encompasses relativity and quantum mechanics), nonlinear physics and chaos, particle physics... Doing the same physics three times is complete overkill and more likely to turn the student off physics than to inspire a love and enthusiasm about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Okay. I'll play. DS/rising 10th, humanities kid 6th: random units 7th: General Science 8th: physical 9th: biology + alg 10th: chemistry + alg/geo combined 11th: physics + alg 2 12th: At this point, spare room for him to get the above finished. More math if he gets through alg 2. DD/rising 9th, keeps a foot on both sides of the humanities/STEM fence 6th: General Science 7th: Physical + started alg 8th: architecture and some astronomy + full alg course 9th: conceptual physics + geometry 10: chemistry + alg 2 11th: biology + precalc 12th: whichever science she chooses and more math DS/rising 6th, lives and breathes STEM 6th: ocean life, weather, astronomy, BSA's NOVA program at the Boy Scout level (he already has a medal from the Cub level) 7th: current wish is engines and the first SuperNova award + algebra 8th: my choice would be biology, and probably the next SuperNova (highest he can get until he's 14 and joins a Venture crew) + geometry 9th-12th: multiple physics and chem courses, math so high it will need outsourced, and I can absolutely see him conquering the whole NOVA program along with getting his Eagle Wildly different children, thus the slate for the little kids stays empty until they're much closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly1730 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 SilverMoon, You so kindly replied to my plea of help with earth science in the other thread, thank you! Can you share what you will be using for your 6th grader's ocean life, weather and astronomy? Thank you:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 There is a reason for the math schedule, since math builds on itself and earlier courses are prerequisites for later ones. No such thing is true for the way science is taught in this country. From a philosophical point of view, any science sequence should begin with physics as this is the most fundamental of sciences, then chemistry since it is an application of physics, then biology which incorporates a lot of biochemistry. Since none of these can be studied in a systematic manner without certain math prerequisites, this order does not apply to middle school, and most high schoolers do not have the necessary math either to follow this progression. Beyond this, all "schedules" are a matter of convenience and preference, not a logical sequence. We do interest led science in middle school and have studied what my kids were interested in: earth science, astronomy, physical science, a bit of biology... I would try to use middle school as a time for broad science exposure and cover topics not usually included in the high school science lineup. I agree with this. I also think that what has become the traditional sequence of biology, chemistry, physics in high schools has led to the belief by students that somehow physics is hard and biology is easy. That might be true the way biology and physics are taught in schools but it's not necessarily true. What science we do in high school will depend more on what math they have had and what is available if we want to use outside classes and somewhat in their interests. For middle school we plan on doing a more interest-led approach and I agree with regentrude that we want to have time to cover some things we might not have time to cover in high school or to introduce them to different fields. I know we're going to start 6th grade with astronomy because ds is interested in that now. Other thoughts are marine biology, geology, genetics and chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) On 5/23/2014 at 6:50 AM, Kelly1730 said: Edited May 23, 2023 by SilverMoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirabillis Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 this is such a breath of fresh air, hearing middle school can be a bit more playing around, time to explore and dabble. wonderful! BIG sigh of relief. thank you so much! we're finishing 6th and almost completed with chemistry. so we'll not sweat that we didn't finish it as science is a hard one for me to find time for, and continue along next year - then move onto another field of interest. anyone have any suggestions? this is really our first foray into science (chemistry) - we used REAL Science Odyssey and are loving it. I'm combining my middle schooler with my 5th & 3rd graders also... where should i go next? biology? earth science? astronomy? where should we go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 We're going through BFSU 3 (Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding - Middle School Science Education) which covers all the topics. We are focusing more on certain topics, studying textbooks as well so DS can learn to take notes. 6th: BFSU 3 and The Way Life Works, Usborne Science Encyclopedia with Internet Links with supplementary books such as Behold and See 5 and 6, and sites NeoK12, Bill Nye The Science Guy videos, documentaries 7th: BFSU 3 and Hewitt's Conceptual Integrated Science Explorations, Behold and See 5 and 6, same encyclopedia and sites as above 8th: BFSU 3 and Hewitt's Conceptual Integrated Science Explorations, Behold and See 6, A Really Short History of Nearly Everything, same encyclopedia and sites as above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly1730 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 He will primarily be using Winter Promise's Adventures in the Sea and Sky, which coordinates those sciences with the progression of ships (ocean), planes (weather), and spacecrafts (astronomy). He'll use the older learner guide intended for 7th+ for the activities and deeper coverage. The books WP schedules for him are The Ocean Book, The Weather Book, Wright Brothers for Kids, Galileo for Kids, Exploring the Solar System (Carson), Kids Book of Weather Forecasting, Book of Flight, Exploring Planet Earth (Tiner), Seabird (Holling), Dragons of the Deep, The Stars (H.A. Rey), The History of the Ship, Flight: 100 Years of Aviation, Voyager's Grand Tour, and a few WP published books. Lit, geography, and Bible are also tied in. DS/rising 6th is tickled to his toes excited. Taking notes! Thank you for typing all that out. I think I know what direction to go in, just have to flesh it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 I basically followed dd's interests :) 5th grade: Earth Science (using CPO Earth Science), plus a few elementary Science Olympiad (division A) events (one was chemistry-based, another a building/structural event, rocks and minerals, and something I can't remember) 6th grade: Life Science (using CPO Life Science), plus middle school Science Olympiad (division B ). She deepened her study of rocks and minerals with lots of hands-on activities and books, studied tree botany (I used grad school materials I had still), suffered through food chemistry and basic forensics, and taught herself basic structural engineering to build a balsa tower. That was an awesome year in midst of family turmoil (my dad died and I had to deal with all that plus selling the house and settling my parents' estate). 7th grade: I said what the heck, let's do whatever you want! Five Science Olympiad events---she studied from a college (non-major) geology textbook, watched hours and hours of astronomy documentaries, researched deep-space objects and variable stars, continued the botany study, learned about electricity and magnetism from a college (non-major) textbook paired with lab work, and worked on that year's structural engineering balsa event (boomilever). She placed first twice, second twice, and seventh at the state competition :) 8th grade: a bit more systematic with algebra-based physics (using Giancoli) plus more geology (watched college lectures from the university---this prof set his class recordings, including all slides, to "open access" loved, loved, loved this option for her!), planetary astronomy, coral reef ecology/water quality, and boomilever again. One first, two seconds, a third, and a failed boomilever (broke sooner than all her other versions, alas, though she still placed twelfth). In high school she will take chemistry from me (9th), a git 'er done biology from me (?), and then who knows? She'll need physics of some sort on her transcript. Depending on her intended college major, that will either be AP Physics C (if engineering, which I really doubt) or she could self-study/review and take the new AP Physics 1 and/or 2 exams (if math, geology, or archaeology). She wants to take a few geology courses at the university. AP Chem and AP Environmental are options. Maybe an astronomy or a botany or.... Her older siblings took a traditional sequence (bio/chem/AP physics C/AP Environmental for ds, bio/chem/physics/AP Bio for dd) at their high schools. I feel that dd, as a homeschooler, has the opportunity to do so much more by exploring her areas of interest :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Since I'm horrible with science, I am all ears in this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanna1949 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Not at all answering your question, but about 45 years ago, I had a science teacher tell me that the reason H.S. courses are offered in this order: biology, chemistry, physics, is purely alphabetical. :glare: Might be something to his theory since it's been that way for decades! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Just chiming in to agree that middle school is a wonderful time to explore interests and wander off the beaten path. If you have an accelerated heavy-duty stem student and want to use middle school to do "regular" high school science so that they can focus on APs in high school, that is a good argument for doing traditional bio/chem/physics twice, but otherwise, why?? Why not use middle school to explore what science is all about, how scientists work, how they got where they are, what are all the interesting fields and sub-fields within and between the traditional disciplines? Who knows, maybe you will help your kid find a passion, something they didn't even know about. I think basic scientific literacy is critical, and if every kid can have that, in a broad way, by the end of 8th grade, you are doing them a far greater service than if you send them through easier textbooks set up exactly the way their high-school textbooks will be. You can use something like the BFSU spreadsheets, or Science Matters by Hazen & Trefil, or the GC lecture The Joy of Science by Hazen as a guide. Or, if your kid has strong interests, follow them! We did entomology, equine science and basic biology - cells & microorganisms - in 5th grade, the first two because they were passions and the third because I thought that foundation was important, and I'm a biologist so it was easy for me to teach. I decided we should do some physical science next, since we never had and because I'm a biologist and it's not easy to teach ;). Shannon fell in love with Astronomy so we spent a lot more time on that this year than I'd planned, and also some very basic physics/mechanics because we realized how critical that was to continue with astronomy - which helped us realized how important math would be - which really helped motivate her to work hard and excel in math. What a win-win that turned out to be! She's learned a ton of astronomy and some basic physics and a reason to work hard in math! I don't think she'll end up pursuing astronomy as a specialty, but how great it was that we parked there and explored the interest. Meanwhile, I'd been cooking up my "middle school as science literacy and stuff you might not have time for later" philosophy. So we've decided to spend 7th grade studying BIg History, using the Big History Project, and we'll build a science class linked to that which will be focused on Origins - the Big Bang, stars & elements, solar system and earth (earth systems science in here, as we haven't done much of that), and Evolution/origin of life, which will include Astrobiology, just because. I have no idea what we'll do in 8th grade. Maybe we'll do high school chemistry so that we can start right into higher-level biology in 9th. Maybe we'll do an Algebra-based Physics course, because she'll have the math for it by then. Maybe she'll have a new interest for us to explore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum1019 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Rose, Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, sequence and details about what you did for MS science. This is vey helpful as I plan science for my DD. Did you use any particular book for your section on biology, cells and micro organisms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Sure! Here are the books we used, mostly from the library. We did lab activities from various books with a borrowed microscope. We also did three curricula: McHenry's Botany, WP's Equine Science, and MP's Insects 5th Grade Science Living Books List Cell Biology/Microbiology/Botany/Entomology Using the Microscope/Intro to the Microscopic World · The Usborne Complete Book of the Microscope – Kirsteen Rogers · Antoni Van Leeuwenhoek: First to See Microscopic Life – Lisa Yount’ · Hidden Worlds: Looking Through a Scientist’s Microscope – Stephen Kranmer · Broll, Brandon. Microcosmos: Discovering the World Through Microscopic Images from Maynard, Christopher. · Micro Monsters: Life Under the Microscope 20X to Over 22 Million X Magnification · Rainis, Kenneth G. and Russell, Bruce J. Guide to Microlife.Danbury, Connecticut: Franklin Watts, 1996 Cells · The Way Life Works – Mahlon Hoagland · The Lives of a Cell: Notes of a Biology Watcher – Lewis Thomas · Rebecca Johnson – Mighty Animal Cells; Powerful Plant cells Bacteria, Viruses, & Fungi · Invisible Allies: Microbes That Shape Our Lives - Farrell, Jeanette. · Parade of Life: Monerans, Protists, Fungi & Plants – Prentice Hall Science · The Good, the Bad, the Slimy: The Secret Life of Microbes – Sara Latta · A World of Microorganisms – Robert Snedden · The Benefits of Bacteria – Robert Snedden · Pond Water Zoo: An Introduction to Microscopic Life – Peter Loewer · Explore the World using Protazoa – Roger Anderson · Morrison, Gordon. Pond. Walter Lorraine Books, 2002. · Paul DeKruif – The Microbe Hunters · Microcosmos: Four Billion Years of Microbial Evolution – Lynn Margulis · Tales from the Underground: A Natural History of Subterranean Life – David Wolfe · Magical Mushrooms & Mischievous Molds – George Hudler · Molds, Mushrooms & Other Fungi – Steve Parker · Fungi – Alvin Silverstein · Fungi – Judy Wearing · Fungi – Elaine Pascoe Botany · Plant Projects for Young Scientists – Salvatore Tocci · Botany Projects for Young Scientists – Maurice Bleifeld · Plants – Janice VanCleave · Living Sunlight: How Plants Bring the Earth to Life – Molly Bang · Anatomy of a Rose – Sharman Apt Russell · Botany for Dummies · Essential Atlas of Botany · Fifty Plants that Changed the Course of History · 100 Flowers and How They Got Their Names · Photosynthesis – Alvin & Virginia Silverstein · The Botany of Desire – Michael Pollan Entomology · Adventures with Insects – Richard Headstrom · MP Insects Reader & Workbook · Insectigations – 40 Hands-On Activities to Explore the Insect World · Life in a Bucket of Soil – Elsie Wrigley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drum1019 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Oh my Rose, you are an amazing resource! Thank you so much, I am excited to incorporate some of these resources as part of my DD's biology study this Fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I have planned science sequences over and over and over... I was ready to pull my hair out, but now I'm just letting it go. (Oh boy, there goes Frozen in my head!) My rising 6th and 7th graders do science together. This coming year, they're supposed to take Earth and Space Science at co-op, finish up the Physics that got side tracked this year, do some Environmental Science they're excited about, and spend Spring studying for the junior envirothon again. Oh, and the 7th grader intends to do some serious herpetology study and big projects.I'm sure plenty of that will overflow into the next year. My kids love all the sciences. I'm pretty much resigned to following the rabbit trails until high school and then following the more traditional Bio, Chem, Physics, Other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirabillis Posted May 26, 2014 Author Share Posted May 26, 2014 This is so insightful. Science has always been my Achilles Heel. I think we skipped 2 full years (4th&5th) as I just couldn't get it together, got overwhelmed and gave up. This year with new vigor, we began RSO Chemistry which we've loved. And I'm feeling great about introducing something... For 7th, I'm thinking of moving to RSO Biology II and then RSO Life for my youngers (and my older son can also listen in). So lots of science. Just having fun with it. Although I'm not sure if RSO Bio is all fun or gets harder. Still researching on that.... Then find something to introduce for 8th. Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think you are asking the wrong question. Your focus seems to be on content: what areas of science should be studied in each year. But really what you need to do in middle school is shore up any weaknesses in science-related skills. You asked the right question on the high school board: And as a mom of an almost 7th grader, what should I be doing science-wise for the rest of middle school to get us ready for high school? Here are the skill goals you need to evaluate. You want to build a 7th and 8th grade science plan around making sure she is strong in each one of them: 1) Reading: Ability to read difficult text. Ability to interpret graphs, charts, and diagrams.2) Writing: Ability to write succinct answers to "short-answer" questions including evaluate, interpret, integrate, compare and contrast, critique, etc.3) Math: at grade level. Including the ability to identify and draw appropriate graphs for the data4) Logical thinking and problem solving capability5) Study skills, reading a textbook, organization skills, time management, note taking6) Scientific Method: general understanding of how experiments are replicated and controlled, how hypotheses are are accepted or rejected (this does not need to be a detailed understanding, although it could be if you want to spend the time doing it in middle school to save some time in highschool) Happy to help you think these things through if you would like to consider this kind of goal setting. Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSprout Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think you are asking the wrong question. Your focus seems to be on content: what areas of science should be studied in each year. But really what you need to do in middle school is shore up any weaknesses in science-related skills. You asked the right question on the high school board: Here are the skill goals you need to evaluate. You want to build a 7th and 8th grade science plan around making sure she is strong in each one of them: 1) Reading: Ability to read difficult text. Ability to interpret graphs, charts, and diagrams. 2) Writing: Ability to write succinct answers to "short-answer" questions including evaluate, interpret, integrate, compare and contrast, critique, etc. 3) Math: at grade level. Including the ability to identify and draw appropriate graphs for the data 4) Logical thinking and problem solving capability 5) Study skills, reading a textbook, organization skills, time management, note taking 6) Scientific Method: general understanding of how experiments are replicated and controlled, how hypotheses are are accepted or rejected (this does not need to be a detailed understanding, although it could be if you want to spend the time doing it in middle school to save some time in highschool) Happy to help you think these things through if you would like to consider this kind of goal setting. Ruth in NZ I went through this process earlier this year. Ruth's advice is good, I think. Additionally, another "wise woman" on the board reminded me a while back that the best middle school science sequence is what the kid is interested in. So my plan for logic stage is to use a science notebook with the flow charts from BFSU 2 and 3 as a logical road map. DC will be managing the flow chart, adding items for experiments to the grocery list and doing most of the work (these steps are built into our regular weekly assignment form). I'm driving the bus to the library and setting the number of hours per week she needs to work on science. :o) We might join a coop that does BFSU, but nothing is decided right now. I googled "Blank science notebook pages middle school" and came up with some great resources for dd to build her notebook from, most of which are intended to just be glued into a spiral or composition notebook. We'll add summaries and discussion question notes. My goal for her is to eventually graduate to keeping a "real" lab book, but I think initially, the blank pages would be overwhelming. We'll do some sort of Physics in 8th grade, then see what the logical next steps are for a math and science kid. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudGrandma Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 this is a great thread and I am watching carefully as I have a rising 7th and 8th grader this year and have no idea what I am doing for science. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think you are asking the wrong question. Your focus seems to be on content: what areas of science should be studied in each year. But really what you need to do in middle school is shore up any weaknesses in science-related skills. You asked the right question on the high school board: Here are the skill goals you need to evaluate. You want to build a 7th and 8th grade science plan around making sure she is strong in each one of them: 1) Reading: Ability to read difficult text. Ability to interpret graphs, charts, and diagrams. 2) Writing: Ability to write succinct answers to "short-answer" questions including evaluate, interpret, integrate, compare and contrast, critique, etc. 3) Math: at grade level. Including the ability to identify and draw appropriate graphs for the data 4) Logical thinking and problem solving capability 5) Study skills, reading a textbook, organization skills, time management, note taking 6) Scientific Method: general understanding of how experiments are replicated and controlled, how hypotheses are are accepted or rejected (this does not need to be a detailed understanding, although it could be if you want to spend the time doing it in middle school to save some time in highschool) Happy to help you think these things through if you would like to consider this kind of goal setting. Ruth in NZ :001_wub: This is the approach we've taken for middle school science--working on skills. We did that partially by using a textbook and doing lots of math and writing during science. Lab skills were covered a bit at home, but also during outsourced labs. Content was covered a little in the text, obviously, but much of the content she learned was from shared and independent science reading. It was also covered by attending talks by local scientists. We worked with simple textbooks during the first part of middle school. The textbooks were simple, but the books for assigned reading were not. It was important not to make everything a stretch, thus the simple textbooks so the focus could be on the skills. Next year, DD will be ready (hopefully) to apply the skills using a more difficult text. The middle school years have been slingshot years for us. It felt a bit like retreating or pulling back while we worked on honing skills, but it now feels like we are on the verge of flying forward and charging ahead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSprout Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 :001_wub: This is the approach we've taken for middle school science--working on skills. We did that partially by using a textbook and doing lots of math and writing during science. Lab skills were covered a bit at home, but also during outsourced labs. Content was covered a little in the text, obviously, but much of the content she learned was from shared and independent science reading. It was also covered by attending talks by local scientists. We worked with simple textbooks during the first part of middle school. The textbooks were simple, but the books for assigned reading were not. It was important not to make everything a stretch, thus the simple textbooks so the focus could be on the skills. Next year, DD will be ready (hopefully) to apply the skills using a more difficult text. The middle school years have been slingshot years for us. It felt a bit like retreating or pulling back while we worked on honing skills, but it now feels like we are on the verge of flying forward and charging ahead... We did this last year with Galore Park Science 3. She did learn from it, but it was light compared to her self-directed reading. It really has improved her ability to handle a textbook, look for information and answer questions. We haven't done much math in science, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I have done this once through. Ds1 is finishing 8th grade in the next few weeks. And I have a second go round coming up. Ds2 will be a fourth grader next year. Like Ruth said, much of this depends on math skills. With ds1 we hit the math wall. His science skills were fine but we felt we were treading water because he hadn't done algebra yet. We couldn't move on in science until he had those math skills. He was bored and frustrated in 7th grade because he was so, so close. Ruth was actually very helpful in reassuring us we hadn't done anything 'wrong', he just had to wait for his math skills to catch up. Of course now it seems like such a small blip, but at the time it was a drag. So with Ds1 we did: 5th: Life science. I used a secularized version of the free life science plan at Guest Hollow (a hive member and a fantastic homeschooler) plus I added in a couple TOPS units. We did 'Radishes' and "Corn and Beans". I only wish we had done "animal camouflage' as well. I also added in a couple things suggested in TWTM, such as blood typing and a few other things 6th: Earth and Space science. We used CPO Earth and Space. It was a great year. Also added in books and field trips etc 7th grade: Chemistry. Not so good really. I started with ACS free chemistry, which is fine, but it is short and my son already understood quite a lot of the basics it covered. I think it is valuable, but plan for it to take 8 weeks or so, not the year. If you take the time to do the hands on part (and it is almost all hands on) you will know you covered the foundations of chemistry with ACS. So, then we switched over to the plan at Guest Hollow and I used the secular resources. It was a lot of reading and watching the elements videos and also working through The Elements and Carbon Chemistry by McHenry. 8th grade: Physical Science. difficult year. It was hard to find a good program that I could actually do at home on my own. We landed with Derek Owens Physical Science. It has been fine and it gets the job done. With kid #2 I have several paths open to me and I haven't decided which one to take One possible plan: 5th: CPO Life Science 6: CPO Earth and Space 7: Start with the chemistry section from CPO physical science and then add in McHenry 8th Derek Owens Physical science or 7th Derek Owens Physical Science 8th Derek Owens Physics (this is an algebra based physics class) or Grade 4 BFSU 2 threads A&C with extra reading and a bunch of TOPS Grade 5: BFSU 2 thread B with CPO Life Science and TOPS Grade 6 BFSU 2 thread D with CPO Earth and Space and TOPS Grade 7: Derek Owens Physical Science and TOPS Grade 8: Derek Owens Physics and TOPS I am leaning towards plan A...but that 7th grade year is such a wild card. I might just go nuts and have him do a bunch of TOPS units and call it good. I've got time to figure it out. and it is entirely possible I will come up with several different plans in the next few hours, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I agree with this. I also think that what has become the traditional sequence of biology, chemistry, physics in high schools has led to the belief by students that somehow physics is hard and biology is easy. That might be true the way biology and physics are taught in schools but it's not necessarily true. What science we do in high school will depend more on what math they have had and what is available if we want to use outside classes and somewhat in their interests. For middle school we plan on doing a more interest-led approach and I agree with regentrude that we want to have time to cover some things we might not have time to cover in high school or to introduce them to different fields. I know we're going to start 6th grade with astronomy because ds is interested in that now. Other thoughts are marine biology, geology, genetics and chemistry. I think where you place physics somewhat depends on what the expectations of the course are. DD14 took algebra based physics last year as an eighth grader and found it very do able. DD18 took AP environmental sciences as an 8th grader and then took AP biology and AP Chem in subsequent years. She waited to take physics until her junior year when she took AP Physics which was calculus based. Since she took a calculus based physics course I think it would have made it needlessly harder to have pushed her into that before she had sufficient math background which made her junior year (after she had taken Calculus AB as a sophomore and while she was concurrently taking Calculus BC) the ideal time for the course. I do think middle school is a good time for some interest led science exploration and, if necessary, a good time to fill in any basic vocabulary or basic understanding of the scientific process gaps. The latter is probably somewhat dependent on what the science course expectations for high school are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Not at all answering your question, but about 45 years ago, I had a science teacher tell me that the reason H.S. courses are offered in this order: biology, chemistry, physics, is purely alphabetical. :glare: Might be something to his theory since it's been that way for decades! :lol: I think most schools that go in that order plan to use a calculus based physics course (at least for their top students). I also think that if you are doing heavy E/M in Physics then having some chemistry background can be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Thanks ladies! Anybody else for science schedule? I found it so helpful to plan middle school/high school in advance like: Algebra I Geometry Algebra II Trig Pre-Calc Calculus Anybody have anymore science schedule ideas? ;-) Thanks! I can tell you the way our public schools do it. Elementary -- hands on topic based, several different units per year. Taught by home room teachers. Quality varies, IMO. Middle school. Taught by science teachers, usually with advanced degrees in science. Excellent teaching. 6th Physical Science. Because students will need some of this to understand next two courses. Also, the high school physical science course presumes students know the material from 6th grade. 7th Biology 8th Earth Science. Left till last because high school does not offer Earth Science. High school. 9th Physical Science 10th Biology 11th usually Chemistry or Physics Science in high school has at least three tracks for each subject area. Some students will take Honors classes, later take AP classes, take two science classes per year. There is also an advanced independent research option, three years, plus two summers, for college credit. But only three years of science is required for graduation in our state. Biology required, state test. Most Science courses also have pre- or co-requisites in math, but there are also lower level courses that do not require much math. For comparison, A county magnet school has students take bio, chem and physics all three years, integrating all three sciences. It is the type of school with very bright and hard working students. I know of one who got a 5 on AP Calculus BC when he took it in 8th grade!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I wish we would have done more chemistry earlier in middle school. It would have given her a better foundation for understanding other topics she's encountered. Of course, maybe she wouldn't have been ready....I wish I would have at least tried, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 I wish we would have done more chemistry earlier in middle school. It would have given her a better foundation for understanding other topics she's encountered. Of course, maybe she wouldn't have been ready....I wish I would have at least tried, though. The more I think about it, the more sense this makes - I'm thinking we will do Chemistry in 8th. It is a pre req for more in depth biology as well as environmental & earth system science, which are both things I'm interested in teaching ;) regardless of said child's interest in taking them! I'm feeling like I can handle high school biology and enviro science at home, and that we might use the cc for physics & chemistry in 11th and 12th grades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 :lol: I think most schools that go in that order plan to use a calculus based physics course (at least for their top students). I also think that if you are doing heavy E/M in Physics then having some chemistry background can be useful. That's backwards. You need a physics background to do chemistry, but you can do physics just fine without any prior chemistry course - after all, chemistry is an application of physics. For electricity and magnetism, you don't need ANY chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 That's backwards. You need a physics background to do chemistry, but you can do physics just fine without any prior chemistry course - after all, chemistry is an application of physics. For electricity and magnetism, you don't need ANY chemistry. Well, I guess, kind of. If we say that math is the root of everything, then physics is an application of math, and chemistry expands on (and beyond) certain aspects of that. In that theme, biology would be considered an application of chemistry. Having said that, I took AP Chemistry and AP Physics in that consecutive order and did very well. I allowed my daughter to proceed through her AP sciences in similar fashion (actually I probably set her up more than my guidance counselor set me up because she took AP Biology as a freshman before this) and she did very well on all of her AP exams, used her science AP credit to place out of the standard major freshman courses in both chemistry and physics, and went on to earn As in the organic chemistry and thermodynamics courses she took in their respective place. Her physics class required prior completion of the freshman calculus and chemistry sequence for science majors; strong performance on both the Physics C, Calculus BC, and Chem AP exams; or permission of the instructor to enroll. I suppose some of us find exposure to some of the trees (and some detailed focus on some of their leaves) makes it easier for us to put the forest together well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Not at all answering your question, but about 45 years ago, I had a science teacher tell me that the reason H.S. courses are offered in this order: biology, chemistry, physics, is purely alphabetical. :glare: Might be something to his theory since it's been that way for decades! No, it isn't alphabetical, lol There is a method (now outdated) the the madness. Life sciences come first (9th grade) because after that many schools didn't know if they would ever see the students again. It wasn't uncommon for students to leave school after that age. And seeing as so many of them lived an agrarian life, it made sense to have that possible last year have the greatest amount of relevance to their lives. It might even convince some parents to allow them to attend school that 'extra' year. Using the life science, chemistry physics progression the students weren't (aren't) dependent on having done algebra before starting high school science. Many students didn't (some still don't) start algebra until 9th grade, so starting an algebra dependent science at the same time can be challenging. The "physics first" movement pointed out that by having a conceptual or algebra based physics class first allowed for a more challenging chemistry class, which then leads to a more modern life science class in 11th grade, and then can be followed by a second, more mathematical physics class in 12th grade. So, the alphabetical issue is happenstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMV Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 For comparison, A county magnet school has students take bio, chem and physics all three years, integrating all three sciences. It is the type of school with very bright and hard working students. I know of one who got a 5 on AP Calculus BC when he took it in 8th grade!! This sounds neat. DFD10 is really turning out to be a science kid. I guess that shouldn't surprise me her biological dad was a DVM. She is doing the hybrid charter STEM multiage gifted and talented track. A few of her classmates have parents who really pushing for an expansion of this program into high school and DH and would definitely let her consider that if it all worked out and was something like this. Do you have a link to this program by any chance I think the parents that are trying to get things organized here might be interested in seeing it. (Feel free to PM if that makes you more comfortable.) Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 This sounds neat. DFD10 is really turning out to be a science kid. I guess that shouldn't surprise me her biological dad was a DVM. She is doing the hybrid charter STEM multiage gifted and talented track. A few of her classmates have parents who really pushing for an expansion of this program into high school and DH and would definitely let her consider that if it all worked out and was something like this. Do you have a link to this program by any chance I think the parents that are trying to get things organized here might be interested in seeing it. (Feel free to PM if that makes you more comfortable.) Thanks! I was actually referring to a public school. As a public school, it only accepts students from its sending area. If I were looking at a STEM type school, two things I would look for (besides the usual things) are: -- math courses beyond calculus, that is, courses which have calculus as a prerequisite. -- multi-year independent science research option; think Intel possibility. Of course, even without the above, a program can be top quality. If your kid is not on track for calculus before 12th grade, advanced math coursre offerings will be of little practicsl use. Are there any decent high schools in your area? Btw, my personal observation is that, while gifted is surely a huge plus, discipline and organization become increasingly important in demanding high schools. Not every kid, however smart, wants the workload that some programs impose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSprout Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I've seen all sorts of Math schedules on here for middle school & high school. You know, like 7th grade Algebra, 8th Geometry, 9th Alg II, etc... But what about Science? Anyone have a recommended schedule - either from their local school district - or that they plan to use? Thanks! I think it's interesting that Stanford Online High School offers only 2 Middle School science courses, and they are both appear to be inquiry-based: https://ohs.stanford.edu/divisions/science.html HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 7th: BFSU 3 and Hewitt's Conceptual Integrated Science Explorations, Behold and See 5 and 6, same encyclopedia and sites as above 8th: BFSU 3 and Hewitt's Conceptual Integrated Science Explorations, Behold and See 6, A Really Short History of Nearly Everything, same encyclopedia and sites as above We are also going through BFSU#3. Can you comment on the Hewitt text? The most recent edition runs over $100. Is it worth the price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 ... after all, chemistry is an application of physics. Sorry, I couldn't let that one go without responding... :laugh: ETA: I deleted a copied/pasted image from xkcd that you can instead view directly from the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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