mathnerd Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I am wondering how this even comes about - who provides them so much money to stockpile the weapons, who provides them space to store those weapons (like storage facility rental fee, home basements etc) and how these things go unnoticed by their own family. Also, if someone was downloading bomb making instructions or are joining a board online where "how to shoot schoolkids" or the "Columbine shooters are heroes" is the topic, should the FBI not be tracing the IPs and checking out who posted what (just like they track pedophiles online and carry out sting operations on them). I am reading headline news today about the MN teen with plans to kill school kids and all I can think is "how is this possible?". What were the parents doing and why nobody ever knew about this until now? I hope that if my son (he is very young now, so needs mom to take him everywhere) mysteriously vanished to a storage locker frequently which used my social security number to be rented, I would be interested enough to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Anyway, I too find it doubtful the parents do not know. And if they do not know, how can they pay so little attention to their kids. Is this from an article you read? Most news articles are saying that the family had no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 OMG, I just read about him. I guessing the parents didn't know as he planned to kill them and his sister. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minnesota-teen-methodically-plotted-carnage-three-acts-police-say-n95736 It really makes me think we need more controls on who can buy what and how much. There should be some sort of record. I know that's not always popular. But nobody really needs to stockpile so much ammunition. I am so very grateful that he was caught. Kudos to the MN police department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I get they could be clueless about his plans but what always gets me is the weapons these teens have in their rooms. The article I read said he had guns and bombs in his bedroom. I can't imagine not being aware of a stockpile of weapons in my child's bedroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I get they could be clueless about his plans but what always gets me is the weapons these teens have in their rooms. The article I read said he had guns and bombs in his bedroom. I can't imagine not being aware of a stockpile of weapons in my child's bedroom. I always have this mental image of people who just don't vacumn... ever. But I don't live with a mentally ill teenager and never have, so maybe what I imagine as reasonable is not realistic in that condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 OMG, I just read about him. I guessing the parents didn't know as he planned to kill them and his sister. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minnesota-teen-methodically-plotted-carnage-three-acts-police-say-n95736 It really makes me think we need more controls on who can buy what and how much. There should be some sort of record. I know that's not always popular. But nobody really needs to stockpile so much ammunition. I am so very grateful that he was caught. Kudos to the MN police department. I am *guessing* that the assault rifle and ammo were purchased illegally. MN law does not allow the possession of semi-automatic weapons for anybody under 18. And yes, I agree 100% with your last line. It is nice to hear a story of how a school shooting didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 How are these kids getting so messed up?! This sort seems to be happening with scary regularity. Up here teenagers can't just go buy weapons. You have to be a certain age or your parents have to get you one. If you want to buy a new firearm as an adult, you have to show that you have taken the firearms safety courses for that firearm. They don't care how many you own, just that you are old enough and have enough training, to handle them safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Not here you don't. I have a hard time understanding that. I am strongly against firearm registries, but proving that a person is safe to handle a firearm is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkacz Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 You already have to be 18 to purchase a shotgun or rifle under federal law. 21 for other firearms. Federal minimum age requirements also apply to the ammunition used for those firearms. So this boy was already violating the law on 2 fronts. Additional restrictions probably would not have helped in this case. On the other hand, whoever sold him the gun and ammo should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. To put it in perspective, 2 adults going to a shooting range for an hour will go through 2 to 300 rounds of ammunition. Going twice a month means easily 500 rounds. About a year or so ago, it was near to impossible to purchase ammo since most dealers were perpetually out of stock. Some types are still VERY difficult to find and we stock up when we do find it. It's not unreasonable for someone who shoots frequently to have thousands of rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I am wondering how this even comes about - who provides them so much money to stockpile the weapons, who provides them space to store those weapons (like storage facility rental fee, home basements etc) and how these things go unnoticed by their own family. This is a 17yo. He could easily have his own job. It wouldn't be hard to stop off at the storage facility after school, before work, or on a Saturday morning. We are talking about somebody who is almost an adult. Also, if someone was downloading bomb making instructions or are joining a board online where "how to shoot schoolkids" or the "Columbine shooters are heroes" is the topic, should the FBI not be tracing the IPs and checking out who posted what (just like they track pedophiles online and carry out sting operations on them). I hear ya, but it is easier said than done. Should they follow up on every. single. person. who googles "how to make a bomb"? Do you need to visit a minimum # of websites to warrant a visit? Should the FBI only follow up if you google "Columbine shooters are heroes" or should they follow up any time it is typed? Cuz you and I might be in trouble now. ;) I am reading headline news today about the MN teen with plans to kill school kids and all I can think is "how is this possible?". What were the parents doing and why nobody ever knew about this until now? I think it is complicated. The parents probably tell themselves, "Billy is having a hard time right now." "Billy needs his personal space, so I'll leave his room alone." Or maybe the kid just never gave any signs. I did boat loads of stuff behind my parent's backs. I think it is a little early to judge the parents. I hope that if my son (he is very young now, so needs mom to take him everywhere) mysteriously vanished to a storage locker frequently which used my social security number to be rented, I would be interested enough to find out. But how would you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkacz Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 In New Hampshire, we are not required to take a gun safety course. Nor are you required to have a permit to purchase or open carry a firearm. Having taken a course, it was a complete waste of time. My best training on firearms came from a marine my husband works with and practice at the range. Even my 7 year old knows how to handle a rifle safely - it took 5 minutes to teach him gun safety and the rules involved - the 2 most important of which are do not put your finger on a trigger unless you are actively shooting, and always point the muzzle of a gun away from people (usually down). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 In Florida, there are basically no requirements regarding safety courses. None. You can also buy guns of course online and at gun shows with zero oversight. Background checks are not required at gun shows, online, or between private parties, but they are required at say Wal-Mart. There are no regulations regarding types of guns, magazine capacity, etc. So, if I was convicted of domestic violence against an ex-partner, and wanted to buy a gun to kill them, I could just go to a gun show. Easy peasy way around those pesky national laws. I'm not sure why gun ranges couldn't stock most ammunition (which would have to stay there) and then put limits on outside ownership. I don't understand why a gun safety class can't be required, nor some sort of gun safe for people who have young children in the home. I have no idea why gun shows and online sales should not at least have the same regulation as Wal-Mart. None of those things make any sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellydon Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Someone planning to use a gun in an illegal manner is not going to comply with any laws on purchasing those guns and ammo. Cocaine is illegal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 The Columbine murderers acquired their weapons from older people. Two out of the three people responsible for getting the Columbine murders their weapons were prosecuted and served jail time. I imagine in a high-crime area, it's not that hard to acquire a weapon. No paperwork to fill out if you are buying from a fellow criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 The Columbine murderers acquired their weapons from older people. Two out of the three people responsible for getting the Columbine murders their weapons were prosecuted and served jail time. I imagine in a high-crime area, it's not that hard to acquire a weapon. No paperwork to fill out if you are buying from a fellow criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Women Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I'm surprised a storage area will rent to a minor. For most rental contracts, you have to be at least 18, and often 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I get they could be clueless about his plans but what always gets me is the weapons these teens have in their rooms. The article I read said he had guns and bombs in his bedroom. I can't imagine not being aware of a stockpile of weapons in my child's bedroom. No kidding. The only thing my teenage son is stockpiling in his bedroom is dirty laundry, and I am all too aware of that. As far as the storage unit, I can't imagine him being allowed to sign a rental agreement. I'm curious about how that went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemiSweet Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Just one more reason the United States Congress needs to get off its ass and actually have a discussion about guns and ammo. DISCUSS, not try to take everyone's guns. Americans want to talk about it. They need to understand rules about ammunition, who keeps track of it, does it get noticed anywhere if large amounts are purchased, etc. They need to know how much money groups like the NRA, and even gun-control groups, give to each member of Congress. Let us have an open dialogue and learn the facts. Make Congress explain why they refuse to bring it up for discussion. This. Ugh, I so wish Americans were capable of this discussion, there just seems to be absolutely no give whenever it's brought up and the NRA terrorists play on people's fears in such a way as that discussion and any subsequent legislation is just about impossible. If a kindergarten class didn't affect any real change, these lesser incidents surely won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I always have this mental image of people who just don't vacumn... ever. But I don't live with a mentally ill teenager and never have, so maybe what I imagine as reasonable is not realistic in that condition. That's what I thought, too. You couldn't hide anything in my house. Our maid would find it in minutes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The UK paper has more information. Note that the locker was rented by someone over 18, not the teen. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2618704/Pictured-The-teen-plotted-murder-parents-sister-rampage-school-setting-pressure-cooker-bombs-throwing-Molotov-cocktails-gunning-students.html I googled his address and he lives in an 1122 sq foot house. How do you hide seven weapons in a house this small? BTW, two out of the three weapons cited in the article are commonly used for hunting and probably belonged to his parents. Not sure what the other four weapons were and why the author of the article didn't find them notable. Lots of questions about the dynamic of the family and how all his activities have gone unnoticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 It's incredibly distressing that a person could plan the murders of his family members and plot out an elaborate plan to set a fire as a distraction for emergency crews so that he would have more time to set off bombs and kill as many people as possible before being killed himself. Why are so many of our young men intent on mass destruction and infamy? What drives would-be mass murderers to act? Focusing primarily on what weapons they can access doesn't address the root of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I'm surprised a storage area will rent to a minor. For most rental contracts, you have to be at least 18, and often 21. Fake ID? And if he looked older.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 It's incredibly distressing that a person could plan the murders of his family members and plot out an elaborate plan to set a fire as a distraction for emergency crews so that he would have more time to set off bombs and kill as many people as possible before being killed himself. Why are so many of our young men intent on mass destruction and infamy? What drives would-be mass murderers to act? Focusing primarily on what weapons they can access doesn't address the root of the problem. This is something I ask myself every single time I hear of mass violence or thwarted mass violence. A school shooting was thwarted here in San Antonio earlier this week. The 17 year old boy took three guns and extra ammunition and a knife to school. He intended to "make demands" and if those demands were not met he planned to open fire. Why? What made him attempt this? It was thwarted by his parents, by the way. They woke to find him gone (reported him as a runaway) and searched their house and found he had stolen their guns. Upon finding out he was at the high school, they requested his backpack be searched and the whole plan was nraveled from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 It's incredibly distressing that a person could plan the murders of his family members and plot out an elaborate plan to set a fire as a distraction for emergency crews so that he would have more time to set off bombs and kill as many people as possible before being killed himself. The teen has probably read the investigative account of the Columbine Massacre because his plan is an exact copy down to the distraction fire and pipe bombs. Why are so many of our young men intent on mass destruction and infamy? I wouldn't go so far as to say "many" of our young men are intent on mass destruction - the media takes these events and makes them sound like they happen daily. As for infamy, how many victims names do you remember from Columbine? Eric Harris and Dylan Klebow are probably familiar names to most people and this kid probably wants his name remembered too. What drives would-be mass murderers to act? Focusing primarily on what weapons they can access doesn't address the root of the problem. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 By "so many" I meant "too many." I realize that a small fraction of young men ever do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Reading more detail. For a shotgun or rifle you don't need a permit to buy them. For a handgun you do. It varies from county to county regarding whether or not you must take a gun safety course. I didn't need anything for my handgun, outside a valid state license. when we lived out of state, my dh didn't have a local ID, but I did. so when he wanted to go to the gun show I went with him. all firearms we bought that day were on my ID. he has taught firearm safety instruction. I have shot a gun only a handful of times. No proof necessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomeontheprairie Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 As far as ammunition, it wasn't that long ago that EVERYONE around here, especially police officers were stockpiling as much guns and ammunition as they could get because they were VERY afraid that Obama was going to try to take away that right so Academy and Walmart were always out of ammunition. Lines were out the door. My husband succumbed to the paranoia. Boxes of ammo would be easy to hide. The guns themselves, not so much. we also have stockpiled ammunition. and we have some weapons that is still very hard to find ammunition for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The article I read talked about how all his movie and game choices revolved around bloodshed and slaughter. Methinks that has something to do with it. I grew up in a gun culture, and using guns to harm people was incredibly rare for locals (people moving in to the area to make money off the natural gas boom is another story). The TV report I saw also talked about how popular this kid was and how close he seemed to his sister that he was planning to kill (unlike many mass shooters). Some pictures on the TV showed him hunting. Some of the stuff in his room could have been used for a reloading hobby (I don't know precisely what they found, but I think I remember hearing about black powder and shot); perhaps he used that hobby as a cover for his other plans. If that is the case, the hobby itself probably was probably not a red flag to his parents since many people who shoot guns recreationally or hunt reload their own ammo. If he planned the other stuff meticulously and appeared to be a responsible, upstanding kid, he probably covered his tracks really well and made any interest in guns appear normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 OMG, I just read about him. I guessing the parents didn't know as he planned to kill them and his sister. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minnesota-teen-methodically-plotted-carnage-three-acts-police-say-n95736 It really makes me think we need more controls on who can buy what and how much. There should be some sort of record. I know that's not always popular. But nobody really needs to stockpile so much ammunition. I am so very grateful that he was caught. Kudos to the MN police department. Just wanted to add that it was actually a neighbor woman who saw him and decided to call the police because he was cutting across her back yard to the storage area, which she thought was suspicious behavior. I don't think it would have even occurred to me to call the police! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The Columbine murderers acquired their weapons from older people. Two out of the three people responsible for getting the Columbine murders their weapons were prosecuted and served jail time. I imagine in a high-crime area, it's not that hard to acquire a weapon. No paperwork to fill out if you are buying from a fellow criminal. Those guns were also acquired legally, from a gun show without needing to show any ID or permit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The article I read talked about how all his movie and game choices revolved around bloodshed and slaughter. Methinks that has something to do with it. I grew up in a gun culture, and using guns to harm people was incredibly rare for locals (people moving in to the area to make money off the natural gas boom is another story). The TV report I saw also talked about how popular this kid was and how close he seemed to his sister that he was planning to kill (unlike many mass shooters). Some pictures on the TV showed him hunting. Some of the stuff in his room could have been used for a reloading hobby (I don't know precisely what they found, but I think I remember hearing about black powder and shot); perhaps he used that hobby as a cover for his other plans. If that is the case, the hobby itself probably was probably not a red flag to his parents since many people who shoot guns recreationally or hunt reload their own ammo. If he planned the other stuff meticulously and appeared to be a responsible, upstanding kid, he probably covered his tracks really well and made any interest in guns appear normal. He lived in a 1127 square foot house. Between his guitar stuff, gun safe, seven guns, bed and dresser, I don't think he'd have room for reloading equipment. I'm not really phased by the 400 rounds of ammunition. 400 rounds of .22 (plinking rounds) can fit in a quart-sized bag. From what I've read, I think he wrote about a lot of things he intended to do that would enable him to carry out his plan (get a job, buy a shotgun), not that he actually accomplished any of them. The weapons found in his home were likely his family's hunting and maybe self-protection (handgun) weapons. The other four are not identified in the article, so they might be airsoft or pellet guns. Also, commonly found in teens rooms (especially rural areas). I am curious about the three 5-lb bags of ammonium perchlorate (not an explosive on it's own, must be ignited and under pressure, i.e, solid rocket motor) found in the storage unit. I believe you must be 21 to order it and It must be purchased from a chemical-supply company. Most if not all, require a credit card. Who purchased that for him? Was he using it for amateur rocketry? Was this another "hobby" used to cover his intended use? So many questions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 From what I've read, I think he wrote about a lot of things he intended to do that would enable him to carry out his plan (get a job, buy a shotgun), not that he actually accomplished any of them. I thought I read they had found bombs that he said he planted that didn't detonate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 I am curious about the three 5-lb bags of ammonium perchlorate (not an explosive on it's own, must be ignited and under pressure, i.e, solid rocket motor) found in the storage unit. I believe you must be 21 to order it and It must be purchased from a chemical-supply company. Most if not all, require a credit card. Who purchased that for him? Was he using it for amateur rocketry? Was this another "hobby" used to cover his intended use? The news I read said that he wanted to take "pressure cooker" bombs (like the Boston bomber) to his school and that he had the chemical that could explode under pressure. I guess it was the ammonium perchlorate that they were talking about in layman's terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 The investigation began March 24, when melting snow revealed a pair of devices on the Hartley Elementary School playground in Waseca. Police say one of the devices had detonated while the second had failed to ignite. Four days later a third device was found inside of a stuffed toy. It was already detonated. So, he had successfully accomplished some form of bomb making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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