Being friends with an unschooler . . .

[cintinative]

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[regentrude]

I have friends who are unschoolers, and some other who are very relaxed homeschoolers. The only way to maintain the friendship is for us to not comment on each other's schooling style. For their taste, I am probably pushing my children, enforcing a rigid structure, focusing to much on the academics, am too hung up about a college education. For my taste, they are too lose, and some kids are very far behind where I think they should be academically. No good can come of commenting on the other's style of homeschooling. So this is the one topic which we will not touch with a ten foot pole - other than share a tidbit of what our own child is doing and nodding and saying "nice".

 

ETA: they are intelligent women and I am sure fully capable of seeing and addressing issues if there are any. It is not my place to point out anything.

[MysteryJen]

In my experience, when teaching a class for homeschooled students (all educational philosophies), I had two different reactions to discussing performance or problems. The first was a sincere listening and being asked to help in observing or finding ways to fix the problem. The second was being upset, feeling like their parenting was being judged, and ending a friendship over it. 

 

Educational philosophy didn't have much to do with it.  Parental insecurity did.  If you are the teacher (or even assistant) of the class and you see a problem, you should say so.  You can't be an honest teacher without giving out honest feedback. You cannot chose how people will respond.

 

I hope your friend responds well.

 

[albeto.]

When you say having trouble following directions, do you mean executive functioning kinds of difficulties, or academic skills you would expect a kid of that age to have mastered? 

[MysteryJen]

I have friends who are unschoolers, and some other who are very relaxed homeschoolers. The only way to maintain the friendship is for us to not comment on each other's schooling style. For their taste, I am probably pushing my children, enforcing a rigid structure, focusing to much on the academics, am too hung up about a college education. For my taste, they are too lose, and some kids are very far behind where I think they should be academically. No good can come of commenting on the other's style of homeschooling. So this is the one topic which we will not touch with a ten foot pole - other than share a tidbit of what our own child is doing and nodding and saying "nice".

 

ETA: they are intelligent women and I am sure fully capable of seeing and addressing issues if there are any. It is not my place to point out anything.

 

I would not comment on educational style, but when I had kids in my class, I would say that x hadn't completed his work, y was very disruptive, etc.

 

It was the position of being a teacher for the kids of my homeschooling friends that was fraught with difficulty.

[cintinative]

When you say having trouble following directions, do you mean executive functioning kinds of difficulties, or academic skills you would expect a kid of that age to have mastered? 

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[sassenach]

One of the families that we are closest to are unschoolers.  I keep my mouth shut.  She's well aware of her kids' strengths and weaknesses.  I also teach a co-op class.  I have very, very occasionally talked to a mom about something I observe in the class.  When I do, it's usually about group behavior.  I assume that every parent knows where their kids' academic weaknesses are.  If there's a critical behavior issue, I might have that conversation, but that's it.

 

 

[Butter]

i have a good friend that I would classify as an "unschooler." She doesn't really use much curriculum, and if she does, she doesn't strictly follow it. She says their math is mostly kitchen table/grocery store type stuff (spur of the moment). She is loose and free, following the interests of her kids.

 

I am a classical homeschooler, former engineer, very detailed and organized, very structured. We have a "plan" for each day.

 

So, as you can imagine, sometimes we have very different approaches to the same things when homeschooling our children.

 

My question is--if you have a friend that "unschools" and their child seems to be struggling in a specific area (following directions, in this case): how do you know if it is a product of the loose and free way in which they do "school" and when it reflects an actual "problem"?  I called something to her attention yesterday that involved her son struggling to follow directions regarding cutting in a classroom setting (every week for 24 weeks solid) and now I am worried I have offended her. She has not responded and we are pretty close.  I only told her because if it was my kid I would want to know, and I did say that.  I really value her friendship. 

 

Should I just keep my mouth shut in general?  When do you express concern, and when do you assume it is a difference in parenting and homeschool philosophy and say nothing?

 

Following directions *cutting?*  As in paper?  Is that a skill that is extremely important to master early on (since I'm guessing this is a young child if cutting is part of a classroom setting sort of thing)?  My 5 year old went to kindergarten for 5 months.  They do a lot of cutting.  He still cannot cut very well.  For that matter, neither can my 7 year old.  It's not a big deal.  My 12 and 14 year olds didn't master cutting until they were 8-10, but they do it just fine now and I certainly didn't teach them how to do it or make them practice to get it right.

 

I have been friends with unschoolers.  Some of their kids were brilliant, some were behind, some very, very behind.  I only commented once and that was about a 13 year old who could not do simple multiplication (it actually made sense in the context of the conversation and was not me just bringing it up out of the blue).  She said she was sure he'd figure it out one day.  I never said another word.  She realized he was very behind, but she was okay with it.  (FWIW, he's 15 or 16 now and can do higher math just fine... he really did figure it out!)

[regentrude]

I would not comment on educational style, but when I had kids in my class, I would say that x hadn't completed his work, y was very disruptive, etc.

 

It was the position of being a teacher for the kids of my homeschooling friends that was fraught with difficulty.

 

that makes sense, but it was not obvious to me from the OP that she was in the position of being the teacher. That would definitely alter the situation. I completely agree that a teacher should be giving honest feedback on the student's performance during class.

[regentrude]

 It is a lapbooking class. Every week they have to cut out things--usually multiple items. Each week they are instructed very specifically about how to cut things out (which lines to cut on versus not). According to the teacher, every week he cuts it incorrectly and ends up having to have his items taped  (we are now 24 weeks into the class). This particular class he did it twice. I am not normally in that class--I was subbing. I just happen to be good friends with his mom and go to church with her.

 

It should be the teacher's responsibility to raise the issue with the parent, since he/she observes this on a weekly basis.

You should not be reporting to the parent that the teacher told you there was an ongoing problem.
 

[cintinative]

Following directions *cutting?*  As in paper?  Is that a skill that is extremely important to master early on (since I'm guessing this is a young child if cutting is part of a classroom setting sort of thing)?  

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[kbutton]

My question is--if you have a friend that "unschools" and their child seems to be struggling in a specific area (following directions, in this case): how do you know if it is a product of the loose and free way in which they do "school" and when it reflects an actual "problem"?  I called something to her attention yesterday that involved her son struggling to follow directions regarding cutting in a classroom setting (every week for 24 weeks solid) and now I am worried I have offended her. She has not responded and we are pretty close.  I only told her because if it was my kid I would want to know, and I did say that.  I really value her friendship. 

 

Should I just keep my mouth shut in general?  When do you express concern, and when do you assume it is a difference in parenting and homeschool philosophy and say nothing?

 

A lot of kids have problems following directions for reasons other than unschooling--we don't unschool, my older one has had formal classroom schooling, and he is atrocious with some kinds of directions. My other child seems to have CAPD (too early to test formally, but he flunked a screening). He has trouble with directions and is always looking around to be sure he's doing stuff correctly and doing what the other kids are doing. It really slows him down sometimes. I wish someone had told us about our son earlier--we didn't ever see him in such a context to know that it was a problem.

 

If it's a problem in a class where you are a teacher or helper, and either the child is not getting much out of the class because of this (his project is ruined, for instance), or the class is being overloaded because he's not on board (they have to keep stopping and waiting), I would approach it from a practical standpoint, offering to help if there is some way you can help. Otherwise, I would not push it once you've said something about it. If she simply doesn't respond, you might ask if you said something that bothered her, but I would be careful not to ruffle feathers by insisting she address the issue--keep it about your relationship and communication, and not about her son's issues.

 

We have friends that are eclectic and unschooly, and their kids have freedoms I can't give mine--if we go to visit, I have to ask a lot of questions to be sure my son can go along, and I am always worried that I'll sound judgmental. My older son has Asperger's, and he just can't be as free to do the things the other kids do because he could get himself into a bad situation very easily (he doesn't have the skills he needs to ask for help when he's in over his head). My setting up boundaries doesn't mean that I think hers are unreasonable but that my kids are different and have different needs. I try to bend over backwards to communicate this to her. Her standards really don't have anything to do with being unschoolish, but it might appear that way to an outsider. This situation sounds similar. If she feels it's a difference in homeschooling styles, then you know that you need to be careful about such topics in the future.

 

[cintinative]

It should be the teacher's responsibility to raise the issue with the parent, since he/she observes this on a weekly basis.

You should not be reporting to the parent that the teacher told you there was an ongoing problem.
 

 

I see what you are saying. I guess I felt free to do so because we are old friends, but that could have been a mistake. Clearly the teachers had never said anything to her about it and were frustrated, which is another issue.

[Arcadia]

My question is--if you have a friend that "unschools" and their child seems to be struggling in a specific area (following directions, in this case): how do you know if it is a product of the loose and free way in which they do "school" and when it reflects an actual "problem"?

 

If the child has a problem with cutting or following directions, chances are high the parent already knows. Both my boys have failed milestones at their well baby checkup including the using the scissors part. 

It is not a problem to you unless you are tutoring or babysitting the child and there is a need to know.  When accommodations are needed, I let the tutors/instructors/camp supervisors know.  If no accommodations are needed, I keep my mouth shut because I don't want people to treat them differently.

My older is very good at following directions because it is drilled into him in swimming, gym, Chinese classes he attended when he was three.  My younger did not attend any outside classes and he does not have the practice of following directions.  The difference when my younger was three to eight was stark.  After 1.5 years of Saturday classes, his ability to follow directions has improved tremendously.   So for that skill, it was mainly exposure and need to use that skill.

 

ETA:

Saw your post #6.  My kid had help for cutting in public school.  A lot of kids need help in cutting correctly at those ages, he just need more help because he is slower.

[Crimson Wife]

I wouldn't say anything unless I were the teacher or assisting the teacher. Not my place to be commenting otherwise.

[Caroline]

I see what you are saying. I guess I felt free to do so because we are old friends, but that could have been a mistake. Clearly the teachers had never said anything to her about it and were frustrated, which is another issue.

I don't think the teacher should have said anything to you. I think that is a violation of trust.

[kbutton]

 It is a lapbooking class. Every week they have to cut out things--usually multiple items. Each week they are instructed very specifically about how to cut things out (which lines to cut on versus not). According to the teacher, every week he cuts it incorrectly and ends up having to have his items taped  (we are now 24 weeks into the class). This particular class he did it twice. I am not normally in that class--I was subbing. I just happen to be good friends with his mom and go to church with her.

 

I should add--he is 6 and will be 7 in May.

 

Wow, so many posts popped up while I responded the first time.

This kind of a class would be a nightmare for my 9 y.o. and potentially quite stressful for my 6 y.o. (both boys). My 6 y.o. self would've loved it, but cutting stuff out and having it look nice is a nerve-wracking experience for many kids. My 9 y.o. would give up and just cut things out without regard to how it turned out--it's the only way he could deal with it being imperfect no matter how hard he tried (motor issues). He is deeply discouraged by art projects and craft projects that involve cutting or coloring at all, but he can put together a play dome in the backyard or assemble furniture with little help from a grown-up. Same direction-following involved--different motor skills. If he was in a play dome building class and had to stay in sync with others while following directions, he'd be unglued and lost.

 

If you have kids who cut and color well, you probably have no idea how difficult this is for some kids. I taught K Sunday school for a while, and it's absolutely frustrating for some kids to do this stuff, even when they like to do it.

[albeto.]

 It is a lapbooking class. Every week they have to cut out things--usually multiple items. Each week they are instructed very specifically about how to cut things out (which lines to cut on versus not). According to the teacher, every week he cuts it incorrectly and ends up having to have his items taped  (we are now 24 weeks into the class). This particular class he did it twice. I am not normally in that class--I was subbing. I just happen to be good friends with his mom and go to church with her.

 

I should add--he is 6 and will be 7 in May.

 

I agree with regentrude that the person to share any potential problem is the teacher, not a friend who subbed the class one day. Perhaps your friend is feeling a bit betrayed thinking people talk about her and her kid behind her back. That would cross my mind, and I might respond by pulling back myself. I wouldn't want to invite myself into a position where it feels like I would be giving people more amo for gossip. 

 

In any case, unless this is a developmental issue, I would encourage you to let it go. Unschooling isn't the absence of learning. There are unschoolers on this board who might help you process whatever thoughts you have so that you don't have to involve your friend. She shouldn't be in the position of reassuring her friends that her parenting is not problematic, kwim? 

[Crimson Wife]

I've met a lot of unschoolers over the years.  I simply don't discuss academics with them at all.

I was at a meeting last week for parents interested in Girl Scouts for the fall. There was another woman there whom I'd never before met but apparently she is a HSer as well. She started talking to this other mom who was asking about HSing and started going on about John Holt, etc. I didn't want to be rude by giving my personal opinion about "unschooling" (which is that it can work well if you've got a bright and super-self-motivated child but most kids are better off with more structured HSing). So I just said something about how there are many different HSing approaches and that if you talked to 20 HS families, you'd probably see 20 different ways to HS.

[regentrude]

I don't think the teacher should have said anything to you. I think that is a violation of trust.

 

I would agree if this was talking to a random friend. The OP, however, was subbing in the class - in these circumstances I would expect the teacher to point out if certain kids always have a specific problem, since this is directly pertinent to the work of the sub.

"Btw, Billy has trouble with cutting. You will probably need to tape his stuff at the end, since he never cuts along the lines he is supposed to" - seems a reasonable thing to tell the person helping with the class.

This is completely different from the teacher chatting to some friend "You know, there is this kid in my class, he NEVER does what he is supposed to do!"

[Above The Rowan]

I wouldn't have said anything. 

I have two very very dear friends who both are pretty radical unschoolers. 

From knowing them so well, I'd guess that A) the parent already is aware of the childs' inability to use scissors (in which case, she either is working on that already, or she has decided that its not that big of a deal) and/or B ) she's upset that the teacher has mentioned this situation to her friend but not to her. 

 

That said, my unschoolish friends and I just don't talk much about the details of our schooling. We've been friends since long before we were homeschoolers. So I just don't touch it. It's not up to me to judge or assume things about her kids or her parenting based on her style of educating her kids. 

[...................]

1.  I don't discuss academics with unschoolers.  There's no point.  You come from such a totally different viewpoint that it will not get you anywhere.  

 

2.  It should be the teacher bringing something to the mom's attention, not yours, because you aren't really the person observing it week to week.

 

3.  I used to get that kind of stuff wrong all the time as a kid, because I was extremely impatient.  But it had nothing to do with academics.  :o)

[albeto.]

1.  I don't discuss academics with unschoolers.  There's no point.  You come from such a totally different viewpoint that it will not get you anywhere.  

 

Some of us have interesting things to contribute to the conversation. 

  :blush:

 

Like, we do read books and stuff.

:laugh:

[...................]

Some of us have interesting things to contribute to the conversation. 

  :blush:

 

Like, we do read books and stuff.

:laugh:

By "academics" I mean "formal academics."  And, in the context of this post specifically I was referring to discussions about how we do school, what we expect, what we "use," whether a child is "behind," etc. etc.

 

I think you actually knew that.

[...................]

I actually don't discuss academics with anyone unless they ask.  I've just found it's too controversial.

Great idea.

[MysteryJen]

I actually don't discuss academics with anyone unless they ask.  I've just found it's too controversial.

:iagree:  This was at the heart of my problems with teaching a class. Needless to say, I no longer do it.

[AimeeM]

Yes, in general, you keep your mouth shut unless it's a do or die situation.

I would have been offended. Friend or not, unless you are in a position of authority over my child (i.e. a teacher, babysitter), I don't appreciate input unless I directly ask.

i have a good friend that I would classify as an "unschooler." She doesn't really use much curriculum, and if she does, she doesn't strictly follow it. She says their math is mostly kitchen table/grocery store type stuff (spur of the moment). She is loose and free, following the interests of her kids.

 

I am a classical homeschooler, former engineer, very detailed and organized, very structured. We have a "plan" for each day.

 

So, as you can imagine, sometimes we have very different approaches to the same things when homeschooling our children.

 

My question is--if you have a friend that "unschools" and their child seems to be struggling in a specific area (following directions, in this case): how do you know if it is a product of the loose and free way in which they do "school" and when it reflects an actual "problem"?  I called something to her attention yesterday that involved her son struggling to follow directions regarding cutting in a classroom setting (every week for 24 weeks solid) and now I am worried I have offended her. She has not responded and we are pretty close.  I only told her because if it was my kid I would want to know, and I did say that.  I really value her friendship. 

 

Should I just keep my mouth shut in general?  When do you express concern, and when do you assume it is a difference in parenting and homeschool philosophy and say nothing?

 

[albeto.]

By "academics" I mean "formal academics."  And, in the context of this post specifically I was referring to discussions about how we do school, what we expect, what we "use," whether a child is "behind," etc. etc.

 

I think you actually knew that.

 

Of course. I meant to be tongue in cheek, probably because the prejudice caught me off guard and made me laugh. But in all honesty, unschoolers can have some pretty freakin' awesome resources for people looking for "formal academics." Don't brush us all off. 

 

 

 

 

(edit - just trying to keep it light. I'm super serial.  ;))

[AimeeM]

 see post #6 where i answered this.  =)

 

It is not abnormal at all for a child that age to struggle with cutting.

[freesia]

It is a lapbooking class. Every week they have to cut out things--usually multiple items. Each week they are instructed very specifically about how to cut things out (which lines to cut on versus not). According to the teacher, every week he cuts it incorrectly and ends up having to have his items taped  (we are now 24 weeks into the class). This particular class he did it twice. I am not normally in that class--I was subbing. I just happen to be good friends with his mom and go to church with her.
 
I should add--he is 6 and will be 7 in May.

I taught 6 and 7 year old boys for 10 years. There was usually at least one child in my public school class who could not cut. They all had highly involved parents and had been in daycare since infant hood and/or pre-school from 3 (we had a 4 yo pre-k in our school).(Actually, I remember one mother, who, when I brought it up, went off at me, "That's all I ever hear--she can't cut. Who cares if she can't cut!" Okay! She read, wrote and did math way above grade level).

I do think he needs to learn to cut, but some kids fine motor (particularly boys) can take a while to develop. My 8 yo is only now getting more accurate (and we are not unschoolers). This isn't a schooling philosophy issue; it's a motor issue.

[cintinative]

It is not abnormal at all for a child that age to struggle with cutting.

 

 

This may sound defensive--and I totally don't mean it that way--he has no trouble cutting. He just doesn't cut the right parts.  He has trouble following instructions.

[freesia]

This may sound defensive--and I totally don't mean it that way--he has no trouble cutting. He just doesn't cut the right parts.  He has trouble following instructions.

OH, take back my post, too!

Is it more like he doesn't understand or like he doesn't want to do what he's told to do?

I am still not sure why you think this has to do with schooling philosophy. Maybe parenting philosophy--if he doesn't have to do anything he's told to do. Lots of unschooling kids do what they are told to. Lots of ps and traditionally homeschooled kids do not.

[freesia]

Just curious, but why?

That's just what the mom asked me, too. I cut a lot of things as an adult. I think it is a useful skill.

[Laura Corin]

This may sound defensive--and I totally don't mean it that way--he has no trouble cutting. He just doesn't cut the right parts.  He has trouble following instructions.

 

I'm trying to picture this.  Have you seen him cutting accurately, or just cutting?  

 

L

[WishboneDawn]

Some of us have interesting things to contribute to the conversation.
:blush:

Like, we do read books and stuff.
:laugh:

In my radical unschooling days I'm not sure I would have been a great person for a Classical homeschool to have a conversation with. I was very sure I was absolutely right.

That said those were also my early homeschooling days and that's a time, I think, when many homeschooling moms can be obnoxiously sure of themselves in some respects. :D

One of my friends is an unschooler and we have good conversations about education, probably in part because of my mixed homeschooling history. I can suport her and she helps pull me back a bit when I'm a little too caught in academic concerns.

[albeto.]

I swear I am not picking on you, but I haven't met any.  I must have met a tribe of over the top unschoolers.  I "hope" that is what it was.

 

Not meaning that they never do what they are told to do.  I mean they were not "required".

 

The context of the directions might be important here. We don't follow any formal academic curriculum (or any formal anything, come to think of it), and we have a number of unschooling friends. When these kids come together for a homeschool class, like say, lego engineering, it only makes sense to do as instructed. To follow directions. Otherwise, how would you know what to do? On the other hand, one parent telling the child of another parent to comply with some seemingly arbitrary parenting instruction, might seem an odd request to a child who isn't used to that dynamic with adults. Just thinking out loud here, but I suspect the OP's issue isn't about unschooling but about friendship and a genuine concern for kids and when and how to step in. 

[AimeeM]

This may sound defensive--and I totally don't mean it that way--he has no trouble cutting. He just doesn't cut the right parts.  He has trouble following instructions.

 

Okay. I understand better now...

but this is a personality issue, not a matter of educational philosophy. My 5 year old gets confused about directions/instructions, with multiple steps, frequently, and we certainly do NOT unschool.

I guess I do not find it concerning that a 6 year old has a difficult time following directions - especially if it is multi step directions.

[freesia]

I swear I am not picking on you, but I haven't met any.  I must have met a tribe of over the top unschoolers.  I "hope" that is what it was.
 
Not meaning that they never do what they are told to do.  I mean they were not "required".

:-) (My emoticons don't work!)

I do know there are unschoolers who subscribe to the never require anything of a child in any sphere of life. However, the ones I know do have house rules they have to follow. They have to write down how they've spent there day--they just get to choose what they do. They might have guide lines like 3 history related activities, 2 science activities (or books read), etc. A child who has to follow even home rules like-- take off your shoes when you come in the door--can follow a direction like cut along the dotted line.

I have run a writing club that had unschooling children in it. When I said,"Go and write for 10 minutes," they did. They didn't really have a choice to be in the class as it was run during a Bible Study their mother wanted to attend. I was an adult in authority.

Now, when I teach children's church, it is 2 families of public schooled kids that do.not.ever.listen. That is a parenting issue, not a schooling issue.

[AimeeM]

The context of the directions might be important here. We don't follow any formal academic curriculum (or any formal anything, come to think of it), and we have a number of unschooling friends. When these kids come together for a homeschool class, like say, lego engineering, it only makes sense to do as instructed. To follow directions. Otherwise, how would you know what to do? On the other hand, one parent telling the child of another parent to comply with some seemingly arbitrary parenting instruction, might seem an odd request to a child who isn't used to that dynamic with adults. Just thinking out loud here, but I suspect the OP's issue isn't about unschooling but about friendship and a genuine concern for kids and when and how to step in. 

 

That may very well be, but concern over cutting and following classroom instructions about how to cut a paper, isn't "step in" worthy. Violent kid, sick looking kid, kid drinking behind her back - that's worthy of stepping in.

[MistiDelaney]

Commented posted below...

 

<snip

 

  I only commented once and that was about a 13 year old who could not do simple multiplication (it actually made sense in the context of the conversation and was not me just bringing it up out of the blue).  She said she was sure he'd figure it out one day.  I never said another word.  She realized he was very behind, but she was okay with it.  (FWIW, he's 15 or 16 now and can do higher math just fine... he really did figure it out!)

 

That's the underlying assumption in unschooling and it's been my experience several times that it usually does work out that way, unless there is a fundamental problem.  (No, I'm not an unschooler, but many of my friends are.)

 

Of course. I meant to be tongue in cheek, probably because the prejudice caught me off guard and made me laugh. But in all honesty, unschoolers can have some pretty freakin' awesome resources for people looking for "formal academics." Don't brush us all off. 

 

 

 

 

(edit - just trying to keep it light. I'm super serial.   ;))

 

I was about to post that while I am a classically based, literature dominant homeschooler, I get some of my coolest resources from my unschooler friends.  :)  Her experience is much broader than most structured educators I know, and even better, most of her resources are "fun", so I can slip them into our schedule without complaints.  :)

[MysteryJen]

I think the concern lies in the not following the same directions for 24 weeks. Maybe not "step in" worthy, but as a parent I would want to know if my kid was doing this. Either as a discipline issue or a learning issue. Hearing criticism of your child is never fun, but sometimes it is useful.

[MomatHWTK]

Hmm... a 7 year old in a hands on classroom with other students and activity, lots of paper, lines and scissors and he doesn't always hit the right lines.  Stunning.  I bet my DH would cut the wrong lines if I put him in that class.    :rofl:

[cintinative]

I'm trying to picture this.  Have you seen him cutting accurately, or just cutting?  

 

L

deleted

[kbutton]

Okay, so imagine an envelope for a lapbook. He cuts around the outside, not perfectly, but well enough to show he uses scissors fine. However, he also cuts on a line he has been instructed very specifically not to cut. He does this twice within twenty minutes. And he does it every week for 24 weeks. That is the picture I am getting. 

 

As far as why does this have to do with schooling philosophy--I don't know. It just seemed related to the loose and free way in which they do life somehow. I am probably wrong.

 

Just curious...do the "cut this" lines look significantly different than the "don't cut" lines? Impulsivity and a rush to get things done may be a factor as well. Just some thoughts.

[freesia]

Okay, so imagine an envelope for a lapbook. He cuts around the outside, not perfectly, but well enough to show he uses scissors fine. However, he also cuts on a line he has been instructed very specifically not to cut. He does this twice within twenty minutes. And he does it every week for 24 weeks. That is the picture I am getting. 
 
As far as why does this have to do with schooling philosophy--I don't know. It just seemed related to the loose and free way in which they do life somehow. I am probably wrong.

Actually, cutting around doesn't show he can cut fine. You should see my 8 year old's lapbook cutting, Eek! If it needs to fit well, I do it. It's eye hand coordination that helps get those scissors on the line. I would guess his handwriting is all over the place, too.

Or it could be auditory processing/dyslexia/some kind of language glitch combined. I would want the teacher's feedback. But from the teacher.

[MomatHWTK]

I would definitely want any feedback to come from someone who didn't assume it was my teaching style that caused the problem.  :huh:

[freesia]

Just curious...do the "cut this" lines look significantly different than the "don't cut" lines? Impulsivity and a rush to get things done may be a factor as well. Just some thoughts.

I agree. Sometimes the cut lines are dotted and the not cut are solid and it gets confusing. Even if you have just been told. Both my boys have had trouble with this. They are normally well behaved, good listeners. I think they hurry with a task they hate or, are concentrating so much on the cutting, they can't remember the directions.

Man, I am sounding like a defensive Mom of boys-who-couldn't-cut-on-lines-when-6!LOL I just want folks to understand that, sometimes, all the practice in the world does not yield an end in a young child.

[Rosie_0801]

I can't get over someone putting a 6yo boy in a lap booking class. Maybe lots of people do, but it boggles my mind! 

[HS Mom in NC]

I would categorize a child completely unwilling to follow directions as a parenting issue. There are kids with processing issues and personality types that require multiple steps to be stated and executed individually. I think a parent is far better qualified and motivated to see and respond to these kinds of things. Some kids have a harder time focusing in large groups of squirmy kids. Sometimes it takes kids a while to figure out the new situation and adjust accordingly.

 

Generally speaking, I wouldn't go around pointing out to other people where their kids struggle unless it was a real problem significantly affecting other people. I think most people would view someone who did point out minor things as a busy body. I really wouldn't be upset by a little kid getting something (GASP!) wrong. The teacher and his mother can handle it themselves. Even if they don't, I don't see what it should matter to anyone else.  I wouldn't extrapolate a future of failure over it or anything.  Is the OP assuming some sort of big deal that could result from a child cutting the wrong parts of something? What's the worst case scenario that would result from not "stepping in" in the OP's head?  

 

 I'm a Classical hybrid between CM and TWTM in unit study form myself.  I used to hang out with a large group of unschoolers (several dozen uschooling of families.) Until you actually spend time with a wide variety of people who fall into a particular group, you are not qualified to makes assessments about the group based on a single or a few interprepations of it.  That's a general principle that should applied in life to lots of different situations.

 

I've met unschoolers whose kids are complete messes socially and academically.  I've met some unschoolers whose kids are doing so well academically and socially that they make the best Classically educated kids I know look like ignorant clods by comparison. Most are in between like the rest of the homeschoolers of all types of educational philosophies I know.

 

Also, when I send my kid to a class (church or co-op or whatever) I actually follow up with the instructor several times throughout asking how my child did and if there's anything I need to do to make it go better.  Especially when the child is young or if it's a very different environment than my kids has ever been in before.

 

[cintinative]

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