Sonlight does it again

[Just Another Jen]

I think it is interesting that core 100 is now officially 8th grade. I've seen posts for years arguing about the fact that its not high school level. I guess they just changed their mind? 

[ktgrok]

As much as we loved some of the books, if I ever go back to that style I'll use TOG. They got my loyalty when they added a "find in your library" button to their store page. So when you look at a book you can click "buy" or you can click" find in your library" and see if your library carries it, so you don't need to buy it. That's such a NICE thing to do, and shows they aren't worried about every nickle and dime. 

[staceyobu]

I wonder if the grade levels are a response to some of the people on their forums who push for using a lower core with older students. I have been told repeatedly on their forums that it can't be used "on level".

My biggest issue is the LA inclusion. No one likes it. Why make it a forced purchase? I guess because no one likes it...

[Tenaj]

Yes, and if a new family did get grade levels for each student? Wow...can you just imagine how awful that would be? I could do 3 cores now, but when I first started there would have been no way. Unless, of course, they next plan to significantly alter the content of each level. That would not surprise me at all at this point.

 

I don't really use Sonlight anymore but because of all the hoopla over the new website I decided to go over there and play around a bit last night.  I should clarify . . . I am not using SL right now but have spent many hours over there lately because my 17yods is going to do Core 300 (oops!)  aka grade 11 , aka  Twentieth Century History, next year.  

 

I used "Sonia" and input my five youngest children.  She immediately brought up a screen asking which kids I wanted to combine so it's not as though they aren't encouraging combining anymore.  For my kids in the middle she proposed several options of how to combine so that they would be in the same cores.  I use Four HOD levels now so four SL levels doesn't scare me like it used to but it appears that if new users ask for advice there is advice to combine just like before.

 

I am disturbed that the forums are harder to find because I think a lot of new users would greatly benefit from those who have been there and done that as far as combining.

 

I'm not really seeing that many differences - sure the website looks different but I could search according to subject, just like I could last week when I was looking into the package for my older son.  I was able to find all the information I wanted about the books . . .it just looks a bit different.

 

It does seem like SL users tend to be a bit, hmmm . . .what's the word?  Maybe dramatic about any changes SL makes . . . I don't mean that to be a slam or anything.  I think it's because SL users feel more connected to the SL Company than other homeschoolers feel about other companies.

[quietchapel]

I don't really use Sonlight anymore but because of all the hoopla over the new website I decided to go over there and play around a bit last night.  I should clarify . . . I am not using SL right now but have spent many hours over there lately because my 17yods is going to do Core 300 (oops!)  aka grade 11 , aka  Twentieth Century History, next year.  

 

I used "Sonia" and input my five youngest children.  She immediately brought up a screen asking which kids I wanted to combine so it's not as though they aren't encouraging combining anymore.  For my kids in the middle she proposed several options of how to combine so that they would be in the same cores.  I use Four HOD levels now so four SL levels doesn't scare me like it used to but it appears that if new users ask for advice there is advice to combine just like before.

 

I am disturbed that the forums are harder to find because I think a lot of new users would greatly benefit from those who have been there and done that as far as combining.

 

I'm not really seeing that many differences - sure the website looks different but I could search according to subject, just like I could last week when I was looking into the package for my older son.  I was able to find all the information I wanted about the books . . .it just looks a bit different.

 

It does seem like SL users tend to be a bit, hmmm . . .what's the word?  Maybe dramatic about any changes SL makes . . . I don't mean that to be a slam or anything.  I think it's because SL users feel more connected to the SL Company than other homeschoolers feel about other companies.

 

Right. I had mentioned much of this in post #33.

 

I think it is tough to get a feel for how frustrating/upsetting the changes can be to SL users unless you've experienced it.

 

Did you use SONIA all the way through to the shopping cart? Wow it's frustrating!
 

[Tenaj]

Right. I had mentioned much of this in post #33.

 

I think it is tough to get a feel for how frustrating/upsetting the changes can be to SL users unless you've experienced it.

 

Did you use SONIA all the way through to the shopping cart? Wow it's frustrating!
 

 

Sorry - I must of skipped over your previous comment.

 

I did not use it all the way through because I really had no intention of purchasing those younger cores.  I just wanted to play around and see what all the fuss was about.

[school17777]

The ig's list the core name on them instead of the grade level. I find that confusing.

[ByGrace3]

I wonder if the grade levels are a response to some of the people on their forums who push for using a lower core with older students. I have been told repeatedly on their forums that it can't be used "on level".

My biggest issue is the LA inclusion. No one likes it. Why make it a forced purchase? I guess because no one likes it...

The forum theory is a good one...the only problem is when you click "4th grade" the only options I see are D&E if you are new to SL or E if you are returning...why is D not an option? And wasn't B&C an option before? It just seems like less options. If you want to assure people Core E can be successfully used for 4th, they old just say that.

Other companies like VP and MP don't go around saying their materials are advanced and some kids can't handle it...you just choose based on reputation and experience...

[staceyobu]

I think D is still an option but you have to say your kid is in third grade. I haven't heard sonlight saying some cores are too advanced necessarily... just very vocal forum users.

[MerryAtHope]

 

I'm not really seeing that many differences - sure the website looks different but I could search according to subject, just like I could last week when I was looking into the package for my older son.  I was able to find all the information I wanted about the books . . .it just looks a bit different.

 

 

Actually, when you click on search by subject and choose "History, Bible, Language Arts, Reading Packages" (That's a mouthful!), it takes you right back to a grade-level search page. It takes some doing to get to a page that actually lists out subjects like world history and US history, or one that lists things "by core," whereas on the old site you could get to such a page easily.

[Tenaj]

I do have to admit that I went back over today and played around again and discovered that "Sonia" had put EVERYTHING I look at yesterday in my cart without my permission or knowledge.  I'm glad I had already placed my order for my Core 300 last week or I would have had a mess on my hands.  

 

So,  my previous assessment has now  been modified because  they need to have Sonia keep her hands out of my shopping cart!

 

[...................]

I hate that.

[ZooRho]

I think D is still an option but you have to say your kid is in third grade. I haven't heard sonlight saying some cores are too advanced necessarily... just very vocal forum users.

they use to, way back in the dark ages.  they did say that core 3/D may be too hard for first time users and 8 yos

[ZooRho]

and how about this

http://www.bookshark.com/

[PeterPan]

The forum theory is a good one...the only problem is when you click "4th grade" the only options I see are D&E if you are new to SL or E if you are returning...why is D not an option? And wasn't B&C an option before? It just seems like less options. If you want to assure people Core E can be successfully used for 4th, they old just say that.

Other companies like VP and MP don't go around saying their materials are advanced and some kids can't handle it...you just choose based on reputation and experience...

Snort.  You just haven't been around enough.  Absolutely that has been said by VP.  There was a huge brouhaha about it a number of years ago, where they famously lamented how ill-prepared homeschoolers were when coming to their school, blah blah, and some of us wrote them and said that if they were so critical of us, they should actually HELP us instead of selling half-baked tms that had almost no helps, etc. etc.  That fall they started their self-paced and online courses.  :D  

 

So don't worry, whether they say it or not, attitudes are there.

[staceyobu]

and how about this

http://www.bookshark.com/

 

Woah... wait a minute.  So, I can order from that and get history and lit without the LA for cheaper???

[Alte Veste Academy]

and how about this

http://www.bookshark.com/

:blink:

[Crimson Wife]

and how about this

http://www.bookshark.com/

Is this the "Secular SL" that there was such a brouhaha over last year? Because if it is a secular version of SL available to the general public and not just that one charter school in CO, there are a lot of people who are likely to be interested.

[kiwik]

To the best of my knowledge I have never ordered from Sonlight but at the end of last year they sent me a catalogue - I am in New Zealand.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Is this the "Secular SL" that there was such a brouhaha over last year? Because if it is a secular version of SL available to the general public and not just that one charter school in CO, there are a lot of people who are likely to be interested.

Sure looks like it. Sure seems discreet...

[staceyobu]

I had really been considering core E for my fourth grader next year.  It would be about $150 cheaper to order the bookshark set.  It looks like it is missing bible and a couple of readers.  But, I'd be okay with a slightly lighter set of books for that much less.  I'm so confused...

 

How long has this site been in existence?

 

[Alte Veste Academy]

Yup, it is related to Sonlight. http://www.bookshark.com/about/company-methodology

[MerryAtHope]

they use to, way back in the dark ages.  they did say that core 3/D may be too hard for first time users and 8 yos

 

And actually, tucked into a one-liner in the catalog under core D, it says, "Well-suited for 9-, 10- and 11-year-olds and advanced 8-year-olds,...."

 

But yeah, in the past they did a lot more to explain that statement. 

[ZooRho]

Is this the "Secular SL" that there was such a brouhaha over last year? Because if it is a secular version of SL available to the general public and not just that one charter school in CO, there are a lot of people who are likely to be interested.

Looks that way doesn't it.
So sad-well not for those that want it- but sad from what SL has tried to say so long what they stood for.

[ZooRho]

I had really been considering core E for my fourth grader next year.  It would be about $150 cheaper to order the bookshark set.  It looks like it is missing bible and a couple of readers.  But, I'd be okay with a slightly lighter set of books for that much less.  I'm so confused...

 

How long has this site been in existence?

It has been a month or so I saw something earlier but then it was just a coming soon.

It was called BrightFlash before.

a secular review of Brightflash

http://www.secularhomeschool.com/homeschool-curriculum/11287-bright-flashand-core-curriculum.html

http://www.linkedin.com/company/bookshark

Also if you read the About on Book Shark it says more about them too.

[Mrs. Y]

Wait a minute.  What happened to the name Brightflash?

 

Bookshark has no samples up yet (as far as I saw), but the whole thing looks exactly like Sonlight sans a couple missionary books and the Bible portion.....even down to the grade level thing.  That's weird that Sonlight would've gone with grade levels at the very same time their other company launches.

 

I have used their booklists for years.  I like most of their choices in d, e, f, g, h, and 100.  I never did buy the IG, just read the books.  Perhaps I missed some key information from the IG that would've made the books we read decisively *Christian*.  I guess we never really did read the books from their Bible choices.  Perhaps that would've made me feel differently about it being a majorly "Christian" curriculum.

 

I think SL should've stuck to their original mission.  Right now they look like they are darting aimlessly about.

[Just Another Jen]

When you put something in your cart at bookshark a message pops up to say you can create an account now, but can't purchase anything until June.

 

It just seems like typical sonlight- we're gonna have this "whatever" but not yet. 

This time every year is full of heavy sighs from me about sonlight- I always want to like it.

[skeeterbug]

I easily found this chart about age levels...just don't try to read it on an ipad. Ouch!

www.sonlight.com/difficulty-level.html

[ByGrace3]

Snort. You just haven't been around enough. Absolutely that has been said by VP. There was a huge brouhaha about it a number of years ago, where they famously lamented how ill-prepared homeschoolers were when coming to their school, blah blah, and some of us wrote them and said that if they were so critical of us, they should actually HELP us instead of selling half-baked tms that had almost no helps, etc. etc. That fall they started their self-paced and online courses. :D

So don't worry, whether they say it or not, attitudes are there.

I stand corrected. I must have missed that. ;)

[ZooRho]

Wait a minute.  What happened to the name Brightflash?

 

Bookshark has no samples up yet (as far as I saw), but the whole thing looks exactly like Sonlight sans a couple missionary books and the Bible portion.....even down to the grade level thing.  That's weird that Sonlight would've gone with grade levels at the very same time their other company launches.

 

I have used their booklists for years.  I like most of their choices in d, e, f, g, h, and 100.  I never did buy the IG, just read the books.  Perhaps I missed some key information from the IG that would've made the books we read decisively *Christian*.  I guess we never really did read the books from their Bible choices.  Perhaps that would've made me feel differently about it being a majorly "Christian" curriculum.

 

I think SL should've stuck to their original mission.  Right now they look like they are darting aimlessly about.

there is a sample IG page for the Grade 4 package. I am a sl user, it is exactly the same.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Wow that sure looks like SL to me....

[1pageatatime]

Janet, I think Sonlight invites "drama" by inviting their forum users to freely offer feedback for Sonlight curriculum.

If you are someone who has invested thousands of dollars into SL materials, and countless hours offering constructive suggestions/criticism/feedback AND you've spent countless hours mentoring those hew to SL......then OF COURSE you're connected to their company.

Unfortunately, that connection is to a company which operates much like an extremely dysfunctional extended family. Meaning SL, not its users. ;)

Regarding the new catalog, it is shocking similar to the few educational catalogs I have for classrooms, and is nothing like the many other homeschool catalogs. In my book, that is a negative...

Anyway....

[quietchapel]

I do have to admit that I went back over today and played around again and discovered that "Sonia" had put EVERYTHING I look at yesterday in my cart without my permission or knowledge.  I'm glad I had already placed my order for my Core 300 last week or I would have had a mess on my hands.  

 

So,  my previous assessment has now  been modified because  they need to have Sonia keep her hands out of my shopping cart!

 

Oh my goodness- I knew this happened with someone on the forum. I played around with it more last night and it was not fun!

[1pageatatime]

Yup, it is related to Sonlight. http://www.bookshark.com/about/company-methodology

 

 

:svengo:

[quietchapel]

there is a sample IG page for the Grade 4 package. I am a sl user, it is exactly the same.

Yes, exactly minus bible. Bookshark and SL are both at the same address, too. I like bookshark better, thus far. So....maybe they changed SL to grade levels to make the IG's easier to share between companies. Who knows. I do remember last year there was a post from someone at SL claiming they had no intention ever to publish a secular curriculum for the schools/ other homeschoolers. It was when all the stuff came out about materials for schools. In my mind, SL as I knew it no longer exists. That is just me, though, and makes it easier to think about using BS  (geeze! going to call it something else for my own sake!) instead.

[Crimson Wife]

Looks that way doesn't it.
So sad-well not for those that want it- but sad from what SL has tried to say so long what they stood for.

I don't personally have a problem with them doing it. Angelicum made a secular version of their program and markets it under the Great Books Academy name. People who prefer the Catholic version can still purchase the original Angelicum. Nothing in GBA is anti-Catholic; it just doesn't include the religious ed part.

[sdobis]

I was interested in So light for next year, but the website is terribly confusing and the cost is outrageous. There's always more add ons that seem to be necessary to make it work. I found http://www.classicalhouseoflearning.com/ on this forum and am so happy with it. And it's FREE!

[sdobis]

I was reading this and thinking, "Oh, yeah, she's right! So.... Sonlight is like the Kardashian homeschool company" 

 

 

Any press, even negative press keeps you relevant. Hmmm...

[Queserasera]

Anyone care to link these other threads discussed earlier?

[Crimson Wife]

Anyone care to link these other threads discussed earlier?

Be forewarned that it is a VERY long thread: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/464465-sonlight-removing-religious-content-for-use-in-public-school-program/

[Disney Dreaming]

They have added the Core and ages back on their website(it is listed underneath the grade).

[Annie Laurie]

My issue is not whether the new website is difficult to navigate. My issue is that the website reflects an almost entirely different product identity, which, in combination with the many other changes of the past few years, causes me to distrust the company. Yes, one can find ways to combine children. However, the site gives the impression (to me) that SL is primarily for grade- level teaching, while for the past many years SL has marketed itself as a program for teaching several children at once. It would be like if Well Trained Mind suddenly promoted itself as waldorf. Also, because there have been so many constant changes,  I feel like I can't trust SL  will 'be there' in the future. It's sort of like when someone is a job- hopper, never staying in one occupation and developing a reputation of being unreliable. This is how Sonlight feels to me now. Since 2010, the company has shifted identity so much that I don't find it reliable any longer.

 

It really has changed a lot, and it's so disappointing. People on the SL forums have been complaining for a long time about the way SL keeps changing around and doesn't seem to know who they are.

[Vida Winter]

If one were to contemplate creating a low-cost series of teaching guides and book lists, what would you desire? I have certain ideas about how to go about it but I'm curious to get some input.

 

P.S.

Kudos to Classical House of Learning for their excellent materials.

[staceyobu]

If one were to contemplate creating a low-cost series of teaching guides and book lists, what would you desire? I have certain ideas about how to go about it but I'm curious to get some input.

 

P.S.

Kudos to Classical House of Learning for their excellent materials.

 

You know what I would love?  A lit based program with a package of read alouds for the family including some sort of history spine.  Then, I want a set of readers to purchase depending on the child's grade that go along with that time period.  

 

So, for ancients you might have SOTW 1 and a few ancient or just good lit novels to read aloud to everyone.  

 

Then, if I have a 1st, 4th, and 6th grader, I purchase an ancients set of 1st, 4th, and 6th readers.  Or maybe I could purchase the 5th grade readers and the 4th and 6th grader could share.  That way, everyone in the family is on the same time period, everyone has their own books on their own level, and I can click buy and receive it in one big box.  Along with this, I want a daily schedule that tells exactly what pages/chapters to read.

 

I don't want science, LA, art or anything else included.

[Vida Winter]

You know what I would love?  A lit based program with a package of read alouds for the family including some sort of history spine.  Then, I want a set of readers to purchase depending on the child's grade that go along with that time period.  

 

So, for ancients you might have SOTW 1 and a few ancient or just good lit novels to read aloud to everyone.  

 

Then, if I have a 1st, 4th, and 6th grader, I purchase an ancients set of 1st, 4th, and 6th readers.  Or maybe I could purchase the 5th grade readers and the 4th and 6th grader could share.  That way, everyone in the family is on the same time period, everyone has their own books on their own level, and I can click buy and receive it in one big box.  Along with this, I want a daily schedule that tells exactly what pages/chapters to read.

 

I don't want science, LA, art or anything else included.

 

Is a schedule really necessary? I mean, that's where it all falls apart for our family. Most of the time we go faster than the given schedule, and sometimes slower. It drives me crazy. We hate feeling like we need to stop at page 47 - let's go on to page 90. Oh, now we don't have time for that other scheduled reader. And so on.

[MerryAtHope]

Is a schedule really necessary? I mean, that's where it all falls apart for our family. Most of the time we go faster than the given schedule, and sometimes slower. It drives me crazy. We hate feeling like we need to stop at page 47 - let's go on to page 90. Oh, now we don't have time for that other scheduled reader. And so on.

 

We had that issue & switched to the one-page, list in order method instead (SL includes one in their guides, now I make up my own). I love being able to go through books as quickly or slowly as we want. More discussion or less, go on a rabbit trail, do a project, move on...whatever.

[lea_lpz]

I'm glad I didn't go with Sonlight. I can not imagine different cores for each child. I love how mfw has easily streamlined core subjects for my kids.

[Angie in VA]

Got my SL catalog today. I had to send in the post card to get it. It rained all day, and there was a lot of fog tonight, so it's too damp for me to turn the pages easily. I may try to look at tonight anyway.

[dewdropfairy]

I'm confused about the SL cores D and E. They list Core D, Core E, and also Core D+E. What's the difference? Are D and E completely separate and D+E is some of each of the two? Why the overlap?

[MerryAtHope]

I'm confused about the SL cores D and E. They list Core D, Core E, and also Core D+E. What's the difference? Are D and E completely separate and D+E is some of each of the two? Why the overlap?

 

D+E is a one-year US history. It uses some books from D, and some from E. D and E (separately) are part 1 and part 2 of a US history curriculum.

 

There is also B+C, a one-year world history (for early elem.) using books from B and C (2-year world history).

 

But to confuse matters:  Core W is a one-year world history for jr. high-ish age, but the corresponding two-year World history is G and H. W is not called G+H because not all the books in W are from G and H. 

 

The choices of 1-year or 2-year programs are just a matter of what will fit a family's needs. Obviously the two-year plan can go more in-depth.